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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5504
Loc: United States

.318 WR vs 8X57, etc...
#79968 - 05/06/07 12:27 PM

Gents:

Reading Bell's Wanderings and got curious about the .318. I have COW and Taylor's AR&C but I'm wondering if anyone here has chronographed any Kynoch loads and what the actual performance of the cartridge was. I have spent time in Kenya, Congo {Zaïre} and in the c. year I lived in South Africa I never saw a single .318 rifle or cartridge not even on the custom bench at the Musgrave Mauser plant in Bloemfontein.

Anyone have a picture of a .318 round sitting next to a round of 8x57? How close are the two cases in dimensions?

From the looks of the paper ballistics the .318 has .007" on the 8x57 and that's about it, i.e. they seem to be very similar catridges other than bullet diameter.

What is the actual bore/groove of a slugged barrel? Heck, they appear so similar that if the bore of a .318 rifle is actually .318 and the groove depth .330, in an emergency 8x57JS rounds could be fired in a .318.

Anyway, I'd be interested in any and all input regarding the .318.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Mike_McGuire
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Reged: 11/06/05
Posts: 348
Loc: Sydney Australia

Re: .318 WR vs 8X57, etc... [Re: 9.3x57]
#79971 - 05/06/07 01:37 PM

You can think of the 318 WR as being a 330/06.

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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39283
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: .318 WR vs 8X57, etc... [Re: Mike_McGuire]
#79975 - 05/06/07 01:57 PM

Quote:

You can think of the 318 WR as being a 330/06.

Except the standard bullet weight in the .330 calibre was 250 grains.

I noticed at the SHOT Show in Melbourne that Bertram makes a 180 gr bullet in .330 so a .318 W-R now has the choice of 250 gr Woodleigh FMJs and RNSPs or 250 gr Bertram (I think) and 180 gr Bertrams.

The 180 gr Bertrams are not premium bullets but do expand the versatility of the .318 especially say for goats and pigs in Australia.

In addition to the .318 W=R being like a .330/06 as Mike says it is basically the same as a .338/06. Sometimes guys with .318's make brass from the .30-06 case I believe.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Re: .318 WR vs 8X57, etc... [Re: NitroX]
#79987 - 05/06/07 10:08 PM

Thanks for the replies.

From another site, dimension of the .318 case length is given as 60.7mm, splitting the difference between the x57 and x63 cases. Appears it would be, as you guys say, closer to a mod of the .30-06 case than the x57 case, and since {I believe} the .318 preceeded the 8x60 that is a deadend for its origins. And yes, it appears, if this length dimension is correct, .318 cases could easily be made from '06 cases as the base diamter appears to be compatible.

Anybody have an actual case and bore/groove they can or have measured?

The 180 grain weight was, as I understand it from the printed material, a "standard" bullet weight along with the 250 grain, fired at 2700 fps, as you gents say, duplicating .30-06 velocity {but with a bullet of lower sectional density}.

Taylor mentions that the cartridge was a development of the 7.92 Mauser {8x57} and indeed that is what the cases appear to be in photos I've seen but the dimension above belies this. I have never seen a .318 standing next to an 8x57 and .30-06 to make a visual comparison. The .318 certainly offers a pressure advantage over the 8x57/.30-06 with the heaviest weight bullets {a 250 grain weight generates higher pressures in the 8x57 for the same velocity} though again with bullets of equal weight the 8x57 or .30-06 have higher sectional densities.

Anyway, I'm curious as to actual bore/groove diameters of a sample rifle and actual chronographed old-time factory ammo velocities, too, if anybody has this info. Looks like an easy cartridge to resurrect as even in the absence of factory .330 diameter bullets .338's should be easily sized down just as I do reducing .375 bullets to .366.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

Edited by 9ThreeXFifty7 (06/06/07 12:17 AM)

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: .318 WR vs 8X57, etc... [Re: 9.3x57]
#79997 - 06/06/07 02:51 AM

All my 318 Cases are 30.06 cases re sized.

You do need to be careful in icking which 30.06 cases
you use as some of the different makes have slightly
different rim diameters.

In my 318's which are all original, the Mauser picks
them up OK regardless but just thought it worth mentioning.

Great cartridge - as is the other one.

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BFaucett
.333 member

Reged: 13/01/04
Posts: 449
Loc: Houston, Texas

Re: .318 WR vs 8X57, etc... [Re: 500Nitro]
#80009 - 06/06/07 10:19 AM

Since this is copyrighted material, I'm only going to leave these links up for a few days and then I'll delete the links. These are all jpg files. Just right click on each link and save them to your hard drive if you'd like to keep a copy of the article.

Cheers!
-Bob F.

This pic shows how close the .318 is to .30-06 basic case dimensions.

An article by Gregor Woods about the .318 Westley Richards:

Edited to add: Links to the article have now been removed. - Bob F.

Edited by BFaucett (14/06/07 04:54 AM)

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BFaucett
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Re: .318 WR vs 8X57, etc... [Re: BFaucett]
#80010 - 06/06/07 10:34 AM

One more pic from a different Gregor Woods article showing how the .318 compares to some other .33 caliber cartridges.

-Bob F.

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5504
Loc: United States

Re: .318 WR vs 8X57, etc... [Re: BFaucett]
#80012 - 06/06/07 10:44 AM

Thanks very much for the posts. Pretty much puts the thing into perspective. Pix seem to indicate that the shoulder position is very close to the .30-06.

Also, the real life velocity cited seems more in line with expectations. I suppose 2400 fps could be reached with some powders, but reason I asked above was that I suspected factory velocities were a bit less than the 2400.

I remember Gregor Woods' articles from Magnum Magazine when I lived over there in '88-'89. Great writer.

BFaucett: Baie dankie vir u help!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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BFaucett
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Re: .318 WR vs 8X57, etc... [Re: 9.3x57]
#80013 - 06/06/07 10:50 AM

9ThreeXFifty7,

You're welcome!!! I'm glad you found the article helpful.

Sincerely,
-Bob F.

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NE450No2
.375 member

Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942

Re: .318 WR vs 8X57, etc... [Re: BFaucett]
#80025 - 06/06/07 03:17 PM

Considering the difference in finding 318 WR brass vs 8x57 I would take the 8x57....
However the 9,2x62 is superior in every way.

It is one thing to find a 318WR in a vintage rifle and want to keep it running... But when building new, the 9,3x62 is one of the best medium bores.

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: .318 WR vs 8X57, etc... [Re: NE450No2]
#80026 - 06/06/07 03:19 PM

NE450No2

318WR Brass is easy to find / make - any 30-06 Brass will do.

Bullets of .330 diameter are a different story though.

Swaging down 338 bullets is an option.

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NE450No2
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Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942

Re: .318 WR vs 8X57, etc... [Re: 500Nitro]
#80029 - 06/06/07 03:28 PM

I still think the 9,3x62 is the superior hunting cartridge.

Plus componets are easy to find.

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500Nitro
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Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: .318 WR vs 8X57, etc... [Re: NE450No2]
#80031 - 06/06/07 03:45 PM

I would tend to agree.

Bullet Weights up to 320gn - which are devastating on game.
.366 Diameter
More power
Easier to find components.

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dnovo
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Reged: 21/02/05
Posts: 490
Loc: Chicago & SE Wisconsin

Re: .318 WR vs 8X57, etc... [Re: 500Nitro]
#80042 - 06/06/07 10:21 PM

I have a 318WR in both a WR full stocked extended magazine bolt rifle and a light DR, approximately the same vintage. Both are a delight to shoot. Is the 9.3X62 a superior hunting cartridge? Sure, for larger game and no doubt on many smaller varieties as well. But horese for courses, and the 318 will do just fine on what it was intended for, medium sized game. The 9.3 will serve on medium game as well, but comes into its own with the heavier species that the 318 is a bit too light to deal with.

Making one cartridge do all is a nice concept, and the 9.3 is going to be more able to fill that role than the 318. I agree that there is little sense in building a new rifle to use the 318 and the 9.3 would be a much better choice. However, for those of us who like to use the older British cartridges in their original 'home' the 318 has a place in my heart and in my gun room.

By the way, thank you for the posting of the article from MAGNUM. Gregor is a superb writer and his book on African rifles is outstanding. I would love to see a compilation of his articles from MAGNUM, especially if they are all as informative as this. Dave

--------------------
Time Wounds All Heels

Edited by dnovo (06/06/07 10:26 PM)

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BFaucett
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Reged: 13/01/04
Posts: 449
Loc: Houston, Texas

Re: .318 WR vs 8X57, etc... [Re: dnovo]
#80046 - 07/06/07 12:30 AM

One more article:

"Think Thirty-Three Calibre" by Gregor Woods

Cheers!
-Bob F.

Edited to add: Links to the article have now been removed. - Bob F.

Edited by BFaucett (14/06/07 04:55 AM)

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gunsmith
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Reged: 31/08/06
Posts: 13
Loc: USA

Re: .318 WR vs 8X57, etc... [Re: 9.3x57]
#80117 - 08/06/07 12:38 AM

I have a double rifle in 318 Westley Richards. The barrel diamensions are. 5 groove, .325 lands, .329 grooves. This rifle was made by Thomas Bland in 1911. It shoots .338 bullets fantastically. The neck must be thinned for the larger dia. bullet. Many gun makers at the turn of the century(Victorian) made their guns larger in the grooves, for fouling. They were still use to black powder.
Always slug the barrel before you shoot. You may have a pleasent suprise!

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gunsmith
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Re: .318 WR vs 8X57, etc... [Re: NitroX]
#80118 - 08/06/07 12:42 AM

the 180's would be great in a 318 accelerated express. Now if he will make them in full patch, and capped.

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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5504
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Re: .318 WR vs 8X57, etc... [Re: gunsmith]
#80149 - 08/06/07 11:50 AM

BFaucett, another doosy! Thanks for that!

And gunsmith, do you mean .329 or .339 grooves?

I have a posted elsewhere my experiences sizing down jacketed bullets. A .330 rifle should not be a hindrance in any way, as a simple sizing operation makes .338's .330's.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Gibbs505
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Reged: 09/08/03
Posts: 442
Loc: BC, Canada

Re: .318 WR vs 8X57, etc... [Re: BFaucett]
#80219 - 09/06/07 06:10 AM

Quote:

One more pic from a different Gregor Woods article showing how the .318 compares to some other .33 caliber cartridges.

-Bob F.

I like the look of that 333 Jeffery!

--------------------
So I can't spell, so what?

Those who beat their swords into ploughshares, will plough for those who don't!

Those who fail to learn from history will be doomed to repeat it

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BFaucett
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Reged: 13/01/04
Posts: 449
Loc: Houston, Texas

Re: .318 WR vs 8X57, etc... [Re: Gibbs505]
#80222 - 09/06/07 06:28 AM

Just to show a different perspective on the case comparison:

Graphics from the Kynoch web site at http://www.kynochammunition.co.uk/

-Bob F.

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Stuart
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Reged: 24/05/07
Posts: 58
Loc: Mission, B.C., Canada

Re: .318 WR vs 8X57, etc... [Re: BFaucett]
#80301 - 11/06/07 01:21 AM

Bob,

Thanks for the articles on the .33 cals. I have a Martini .303 carbine that I'm thinking I might eventually want to rebarrel to something more potent and was thinking of the .333 Jeffrey Flanged, but with a .338 bore as bullets are easier (and cheaper) to obtain.

Stuart

--------------------
Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by
smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles
who really mean it. (Mark Twain)

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mehulkamdar
.416 member

Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.

Re: .318 WR vs 8X57, etc... [Re: Stuart]
#80745 - 16/06/07 03:22 PM

Just shows how much happens when you don't visit here for a few days!

Work is truly a curse - now, I'm missing some articles which must be fantastic.

Good hunting, everyone!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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BFaucett
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Reged: 13/01/04
Posts: 449
Loc: Houston, Texas

Re: .318 WR vs 8X57, etc... [Re: mehulkamdar]
#80766 - 17/06/07 12:27 AM

Mehul,

Don't worry my friend. I will send you the links to the articles in a PM.

Cheers!

-Bob F.

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allenday
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Posts: 318

Re: .318 WR vs 8X57, etc... [Re: 9.3x57]
#80843 - 18/06/07 02:21 AM

I'd rather have a 30-06 or 338 Win. Mag.............

AD

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mehulkamdar
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Re: .318 WR vs 8X57, etc... [Re: BFaucett]
#81063 - 21/06/07 05:18 AM

Bob,

Thank you very much for the articles. I now have something fantastic to relax with after some crazy work over the past few weeks. It was very kind of you to post the articles again.

VEry best wishes and good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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