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philby
.224 member


Reged: 30/10/05
Posts: 5
Loc: Capertee NSW Australia
Dangerous game rifle & Caliber
      #40117 - 30/10/05 07:18 PM

I am researching a DGR for mostly scrub bulls and buff, maybe the odd African adventure over the years.

I am only interested in standard calibers and rifles, no wild cats or gunsmithing.

What calibers? I was thinking of the 458 lott ,but ammo seems hard to get, or the 416 rem mag which holds more rounds in the magazine for back up shots.

Which rifles can you get here in OZ? I would like one with a detachable mag.

These seem to be my current options:

Weatherby DGR 458 lott/ 416 rem mag
Sako 416 rem mag
Ruger 458 lott
CZ 458 lott

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
.400 member


Reged: 24/03/04
Posts: 1214
Loc: Western Australia
Re: Dangerous game rifle & Caliber [Re: philby]
      #40120 - 30/10/05 10:10 PM

In my opinion the 375 H&H is your best choice.
Ammo readily available over the counter.
Rifles readily available.
Pleasant recoil compared to your choices.
Will stop anything Aussie has to offer.

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Dangerous game rifle & Caliber [Re: philby]
      #40121 - 30/10/05 10:10 PM


CZ 416 Rigby is also an option.

What about 375H&H or 404 Jeffrey ?

What about Winchester 458 Win Mag ?
(apart from the fact older ones are Push feed and I would
stay with Mauser 98 style extractor.

Just out of interest, why detachable mag ?
Personally, I don't like them as they can get lost.

458 lott - Reloading option only

416 rem mag which holds more rounds in the magazine for back up shots
Any 4 Shot DGR holds enough - I would concentrate of shooting straight
than having more rounds available.

500 Nitro

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39401
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Dangerous game rifle & Caliber [Re: philby]
      #40130 - 31/10/05 12:28 AM

My choices given your options would be among the:

.375 H&H Mag;
.416 Rem Mag; or
.416 Rigby.

I would start with the .375 H&H if I hadn't had one before.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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philby
.224 member


Reged: 30/10/05
Posts: 5
Loc: Capertee NSW Australia
Re: Dangerous game rifle & Caliber [Re: 500Nitro]
      #40208 - 31/10/05 01:24 PM

Thanks for the feed back.

I was told that there is problems with floor plates opening and dumping the mag as a result of recoil.This and the reason that I like to be prepared with a backup mag already loaded.
I shoot almost every day as part of my work,so I would consider myself as a decent shot.
Most 458 lott's are only 2-3 shot mags and the 416 rem mag are 4 shot.I would hope that 4 shots would be plenty, but 2-3 shots and then have to reload near a angry bull worries me.
I have shot scrub bulls with a 308 and fail safe's on one occassion he went straight down, but on the other occassions it took multiple shots.This is why I would like a larger calibre, to make it more humane and quicker.
I have a 300wm Sako finnlight & a 45/70 & recoil isn't a problem.
Does the 416 rem mag perform better than the 458 win mag?
Cheers Phil

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Dangerous game rifle & Caliber [Re: philby]
      #40215 - 31/10/05 02:04 PM


philby

Who told you that "there is problems with floor plates opening
and dumping the mag as a result of recoil" ?
AND
What guns and what calibres ?

FYI, I have never had this happen and in any case, if all the correct
PRE Safari tests at the range had been done this would have become
evident and IF a problem existed, have it fixed. People blame the rifle
but don't do anything to fix it.

Re "like to be prepared with a backup mag already loaded."
It is fatser to Single or Double loada gun, especially a Mauser 98
that has been modified (Exractor WILL close over a chambered round)
than play with Magzines.

1 up the chamber and 3 in the Mag should be fine - I've never had
a problem.

500 Nitro

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Bakes
.375 member


Reged: 31/01/03
Posts: 589
Loc: QLD
Re: Dangerous game rifle & Caliber [Re: philby]
      #40248 - 31/10/05 06:55 PM

Welcome to the forums Philby. Capertee, loverly place that. My in-laws live in Hartley, not that far from you!

My choise would be the .375H&H or 458WinMag. Ammo is easy to get up here. 416 Rigby ammo is VERY expensive. Tex Gun supplies in Darwin has two boxes on his shelf for $224 a box of 20

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cr500
.300 member


Reged: 11/10/03
Posts: 213
Loc: Singleton ,Australia
Re: Dangerous game rifle & Caliber [Re: philby]
      #40250 - 31/10/05 07:19 PM

How about a CZ550 458WIN or 458 reamed out to a Lott? Mine fits and feeds 6 rounds from the mag ,not 2 or 3. The 458 Lott uses the same diameter case as the 375 but smaller than the rigby ,so more rounds fit in the mag. You can buy 375 basic brass from White horse arms in VIC to make the cases, just run them through a 458 Lott sizing die ,maybe trim a bit . If that is more than you were after ,the 458 Win is a factory round.
As everyone says though, if you are new to big bores or recoil sensitive. The 375 is the great alrounder.

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Mike_McGuire
.333 member


Reged: 11/06/05
Posts: 348
Loc: Sydney Australia
Re: Dangerous game rifle & Caliber [Re: philby]
      #40253 - 31/10/05 11:03 PM

I am only interested in standard calibers and rifles, no wild cats or gunsmithing

Philby,

I think that line has all the markings of a 375 as being the suitable calibre

Mike

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philby
.224 member


Reged: 30/10/05
Posts: 5
Loc: Capertee NSW Australia
Re: Dangerous game rifle & Caliber [Re: 500Nitro]
      #40293 - 01/11/05 09:10 AM

Thanks again for more feed back.

Thanks for clearing up about the floor plate.(didn't think it was true)

How much per box of 375h&h & 416 rem mag ammo?

What do you guy's think of these calibres in the SAKO?

What sight would you recommend?

I have just put a new Tasco pro point plus red dot sight on my 45/70, so far so good.

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Dangerous game rifle & Caliber [Re: philby]
      #40297 - 01/11/05 09:40 AM

philby

How much per box of 375h&h & 416 rem mag ammo?
- check with your local gunshop but I would suggest asking for
Premium ammo with what you are hunting - unless you can reload.

What do you guy's think of these calibres in the SAKO?
Sako make good rifles (older the better IMHO) but can't comment
any further as don't have knowledge of them.

What sight would you recommend?
1 - 5 Leupold or similar in QD mounts with open sights if possible
and all shooting to the same POI.

Hope this helps

500 Nitro

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Gadge
.300 member


Reged: 02/05/04
Posts: 130
Loc: Gippsland, Victoria, Australia
Re: Dangerous game rifle & Caliber [Re: 500Nitro]
      #40354 - 01/11/05 09:31 PM

Factory Ammo prices, per pk/20:

.375 H&H ammo:
PMC cheap [conventional 270 gn bullet] mid 40's
PMC premium [Barnes X-bullet, 270 or 300 gn] about $90
Winchester/Remington: about $75-85

.416 Rem: Haven't seen an Aussie price lately, but Federal and Remington run US$85-90 from discounters in the States.
So double that, and you'll be fairly close to an Oz price. As I mentioned elswhere, they're expensive. Still, not in the same league as .470NE though - recent reports of $400/pk in Sydney!




--------------------
Cheers,
Doug

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SAHUNT
Sponsor


Reged: 27/12/04
Posts: 900
Loc: Centurion, RSA
Re: Dangerous game rifle & Caliber [Re: philby]
      #40384 - 02/11/05 05:18 AM

I agree with 500Nitro on the scope. As for the SAKO, I have a model 75 chambered in 375H&H, it is a fantastic rifle, feeds well and shoots straight with good groups. You cannot go wrong.

--------------------
Life is how you pass the time between hunting trips.
Sometimes I do not express myself properly in the English language, please forgive me, I am just a boertjie.
Jaco Human
jacohu@mweb.co.za
SA Hunting Experience

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philby
.224 member


Reged: 30/10/05
Posts: 5
Loc: Capertee NSW Australia
Re: Dangerous game rifle & Caliber [Re: Gadge]
      #40402 - 02/11/05 10:05 AM

Thanks again.

I think I have finally decided on a Sako big game deluxe in 416 Rem Mag with a 1-5 Leupold scope.

Thanks for the ammo prices.

I have some mates that are against paying trophy fees for scrub bulls, But will pay for accomadation, guide if needed.

Do you know of any self guide bull & pigs propertys or outfitters with no trophy fees for bulls & pigs?

Cheers

Phil

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mlg
.275 member


Reged: 19/03/05
Posts: 85
Loc: Queensland, Australia
Re: Dangerous game rifle & Caliber [Re: philby]
      #41923 - 19/11/05 01:06 PM

Philby

Good choice of caliber.

Out of curiosity, what sort of dollars is being asked for the Sako?

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Bushie
.224 member


Reged: 24/10/05
Posts: 36
Loc: Australia
Re: Dangerous game rifle & Caliber [Re: philby]
      #41926 - 19/11/05 02:32 PM

Quote :I have some mates that are against paying trophy fees for scrub bulls, But will pay for accomadation, guide if needed.

Good luck ! When I was in the NT on a paid safari recently the station owners were darting , capturing and selling their scrub bulls for good money . It was cheaper to shoot a representative buff bull than a scrubber .
Likewise there is money to be made from pigs in the top end . Some stations have helicopter shooting of pigs for meat export .Others have arrangements with safari operators and are paid for the game that is shot .
No offense intended but if you had access to a station that let you shoot pigs and scrubbers for free would you be sharing that info. on the internet ?

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philby
.224 member


Reged: 30/10/05
Posts: 5
Loc: Capertee NSW Australia
Re: Dangerous game rifle & Caliber [Re: mlg]
      #41978 - 20/11/05 01:33 PM

Sako prices:416rm big game deluxe $3795.00
375 h&h mag hunter $1850.00

There was a 10 month minimum wait for the 416rm, so I ordered the 375 h&h, with a leupold 2-7x33 matte finish scope.
It's in the shop now , just waiting for the paper work.

I didn't relise that scrub bulls where so highly prized.

From what i have heard they are a pest, as they attack the domestic bulls on the northern stations(NT & QLD).

Are there any good outfitters with resonable Buff hunts ,where they don't put trophy fees on pigs?

cheers

Phil

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DoubleD
.400 member


Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2405
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: Dangerous game rifle & Caliber [Re: philby]
      #41985 - 20/11/05 02:35 PM

It's already been discussed and decided, but I will add this any way.

As to detachable box magazines. When I worked for KDF the number one repair was fixing the magazine latch on the Voere Titan K-15's so the magazine wouldn't fall out when fired. We never could get it right. The design was poor. The spring hook at the front would bounce out of the notch when the gun fired, dropping the magazine on the ground.

The Germans simply told us we weren't adjusting it right. It's German you know, there can be nothing wrong with it.

I bent the spring far enough forward that my magazine in my K-15 has never been out since, except for annual detail cleaning.

It's my feeling that detachable box magazines have a place on battle rifles and not hunting rifles. (And I include that to mean even on 10-22's for Montana Gopher shooting , waste of time.)

Any hinged magazine rifle that I encountered that opened from firing had been "adjusted" and was easily fixed by replacing the "adjusted" parts.





--------------------
DD, Ret.

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BwanaBob
.300 member


Reged: 03/07/03
Posts: 178
Loc: Gold Coast, QLD, Australia
Re: Dangerous game rifle & Caliber [Re: philby]
      #42257 - 24/11/05 12:20 AM

In reply to:

I am only interested in standard calibers and rifles, no wild cats or gunsmithing.




...this leaves you with really only one choice, the .375 H&H Magnum.

True, there are other big bores which are factory available, such as .416 Rigby and .458 Lott (which are great cartridges) but ammo is not always easy to find and can cost a great deal.

The .375 H&H Magnum will kill anything that walks this planet, is available in a wide range of factory rifles and ammo is readily available and not excessively expensive.

--------------------
"White men with their ridiculous civilization lie far from me. No longer need I be a slave to money" (W.D.M Bell)

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BwanaBob
.300 member


Reged: 03/07/03
Posts: 178
Loc: Gold Coast, QLD, Australia
Re: Dangerous game rifle & Caliber [Re: Gadge]
      #42258 - 24/11/05 12:28 AM

In reply to:

Still, not in the same league as .470NE though - recent reports of $400/pk in Sydney!




...I saw some Federal .470 ammo in Fisher Firearms in Adelaide, more than a year ago, and the price then was $440..... and that is why my .470 double has never been polluted by a single factory round and I reloaded for it from the start.

--------------------
"White men with their ridiculous civilization lie far from me. No longer need I be a slave to money" (W.D.M Bell)

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