| pelle |
| (.224 member) |
| 05/10/22 06:41 PM |
Holland & Holland .450 BPE
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Gentlemen.
I have a toplever hammer rifle by H & H in the .450 BPE.The serial number is 7836.I have tried to contact the makers,to find out when the rifle was buildt,but no reply..Is there anybody here that could date this rifle? I know it is an early production,1885 ish??
I have a couple of pictures,if anybody could post them for me...
Regards Bjoern
| lancaster |
| (.470 member) |
| 05/10/22 11:24 PM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .450 BPE
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you get a pm, will post them for you
| lancaster |
| (.470 member) |
| 06/10/22 12:41 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .450 BPE
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| lancaster |
| (.470 member) |
| 06/10/22 04:56 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .450 BPE
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have no clue about H&H SNs but its a damned nice break action rifle you can hunt any american game with. very nice thing, wish it would be mine.
| 93x64mm |
| (.416 member) |
| 06/10/22 06:55 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .450 BPE
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Lovely rifle Pelle!
That old fine filigree engraving I find most attractive on a rifle such as yours.
I hope she shoots as good as it looks!
When you get the chance, put in its regulating load - if you've got that far.
Cheers
93x64mm
| pelle |
| (.224 member) |
| 06/10/22 07:41 PM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .450 BPE
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Thank you.In fact,I haven`t shot it yet.I am waiting for some brass,and dies.The last owner shot it a few times,and told me it worked best with Triple 7 powder,and a coated 350 grains lead bullet.We`ll see...The rifle is in really nice condition,inside as well.
What dissappoint me is that the makers don`t answer my enquiry concerning the production year.I would be very happy to pay a fee for their effort...Maybe I could get some history on the gun as well.
Regards from Norway
| kuduae |
| (.400 member) |
| 06/10/22 09:58 PM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .450 BPE
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According to Peter King's book on H&H, the H.Holland, H&H since 1876, guns were numbered in a strict numerical sequence until # 8999 was reached in 1887. So a date from 1883 to 1885 for # 7836 seems plausible.
| degoins |
| (.333 member) |
| 06/10/22 11:49 PM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .450 BPE
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What a svelte beauty in a very useful chambering!!!
| degoins |
| (.333 member) |
| 06/10/22 11:55 PM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .450 BPE
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Oh and I have had great results with 2 .450 bpe's using 48 grains of IMR4198 with either Dacron or backer rod fillers and 300 to 350 grain bullets. The more I look at that rifle the more I love it.
| pelle |
| (.224 member) |
| 07/10/22 12:46 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .450 BPE
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Quote:
According to Peter King's book on H&H, the H.Holland, H&H since 1876, guns were numbered in a strict numerical sequence until # 8999 was reached in 1887. So a date from 1883 to 1885 for # 7836 seems plausible.
It has the inscription "Winner of all trails....",and if my memory is right,that was in
1883
Pelle
| pelle |
| (.224 member) |
| 07/10/22 01:28 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .450 BPE
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By the way,I got a message from H & H today,and they will look in to it.Very good!!
Pelle
| DarylS |
| (.700 member) |
| 07/10/22 02:43 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .450 BPE
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I loaded for my bro, a 300gr. Hornady jacketed bullet ahead of foam plug and 62gr. of RE#7 for his Shiloh Sharps in .45 3 1/4" having a 30" bl.
His velocity was 2,200fps & this load cloverleafed at 100 yards using his tang sight and hooded globe front sight with aperture.
He shot an immature bullet moose with it in the 1980's, broadside and the bullet the off side exited making a 1" diameter hole. The moose walked 20' and fell down to stay.
I don't know if this would be a load for that old H&H, however due to the length of the case, it most likely is very close to a maximum load.
The black powder firing pin in this rifle worked perfectly and showed same disruption as a 100gr. load of black powder and the same bullet, along with card wads to fill the space, showed almost identical accuracy as well.
| bwanabobftw |
| (.375 member) |
| 07/10/22 10:51 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .450 BPE
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Very nice old Holland, congratulations. Hope you can get it shooting in time to do some hunting with it this year.
Robert
NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 07/10/22 06:35 PM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .450 BPE
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Pelle, will you give your .450 BPE a go on alg/moose?
| pelle |
| (.224 member) |
| 08/10/22 12:23 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .450 BPE
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Quote:
Pelle, will you give your .450 BPE a go on alg/moose?
If I can get it started in time,I will check out if it can produce the minimum legal power for large game here in Norway.It would be great fun to use on elg/moose.
Today,I got a kind mail from H & H,saying that the rifle was buildt in 1883,ordered by Lord.D.Clifford.I must do some detective work....
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 08/10/22 03:05 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .450 BPE
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If I used a 7x64 for Norwegian elg, I would hope a .450 BPE is more than fine.
Sorry if I got my Norwegian elg and Swedish alg mixed up!
Season must be starting about this weekend!
| pelle |
| (.224 member) |
| 08/10/22 05:01 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .450 BPE
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Season started at the 25th of september,but it last until christmas,so no hurry.However,the population has increased a lot over the last 15 years,nobody knows why.But both red,and roe deer are plenty.
| lancaster |
| (.470 member) |
| 08/10/22 05:53 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .450 BPE
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question is if you have all reloading components, find them for sale is maybe tricky now
I am in austria end of the month, Waffen Dorfner in Vienna load CIP proofed 450 BPE - just in case.
| pelle |
| (.224 member) |
| 08/10/22 08:22 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .450 BPE
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Quote:
question is if you have all reloading components, find them for sale is maybe tricky now
I am in austria end of the month, Waffen Dorfner in Vienna load CIP proofed 450 BPE - just in case.
Lancaster
I have dies,powder available,and also bullets of different types,but only a few hard worn cases.I have tried to order cases from Bertram through the norwegian dealer,but no luck so far.I know that Agne at Skytteservice in Sweden can get some from Australia.But...If you are in Austria in the future,ask them for brass,please.Let me know if so.I know you understand that NE cases are a bit different,so only BPE cases will do.
Regards
| 3DogMike |
| (.400 member) |
| 08/10/22 09:14 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .450 BPE
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Quote:
……...ask them for brass, please. Let me know if so.I know you understand that NE cases are a bit different,so only BPE cases will do.
Regards
Hello pelle,
A very nice rifle you have there.
In regards to shooting, the .450 3 1/4' Express brass cases would be all the same, makes no difference BPE or NE.
That said there can be rather significant differences in the actual chamber because there were no official chamber dimensions across all makers back in those days. all you can do is source some proper .450 brass (thin rim) and see if they will chamber.
If not, the solution is custom sizing die from a chamber cast, possible alteration of the actual case, or having the chamber reamed with a current CIP standard chamber reamer.
Also keep in mind; the actual bore/groove diameter may not be the current standard ~ .458" in the grooves. Some tighter, some larger, in the black powder era.
Enjoy the journey to get your H&H shooting.
- Mike
| TH44 |
| (.375 member) |
| 08/10/22 10:07 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .450 BPE
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Henry Krank in the UK has cases in stock (website tonight) - albeit at £6.89 (GBP) each
Over double what I paid some years ago
Agree with Mike, the Bertram Nitro cases fit my 450 x 3 1/4" BPE rifles ok
AS Norway is EEA not EU maybe ok to export?
Good luck in getting her shooting
TH
| Huvius |
| (.416 member) |
| 08/10/22 10:27 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .450 BPE
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That is one beautiful rifle!
| pelle |
| (.224 member) |
| 08/10/22 10:29 PM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .450 BPE
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The last owner tried som Hornady .450 NE cases,they did`nt chamber,He also grinded down the shell holder,in order to get the case sized more.No luck.He bought Bertram 450 BPE cases,and they fitted like a glove.I will contact a company in Sweden,to get some of them.Henry Krank will not export to Norway for reason unknown..
Pelle
| bouldersmith |
| (.375 member) |
| 23/11/22 02:01 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .450 BPE
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That is a lovely rifle! I could find space in my safe for that one. Good luck getting it up and shooting.
| Marrakai |
| (.416 member) |
| 23/11/22 10:29 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .450 BPE
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Top-lever back-action hammer rifles from that period are high on the list of most elegant rifles ever built, single or double.
I join the ranks of the envious!
Certainly hope she gives you tight groups with proper care and feeding.