| David |
| (.224 member) |
| 27/06/17 07:05 PM |
Purdy Martini Braendlin 1617 Patent
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Hi All
I just bought a rifle from the US and want to find out a little more about it.
What I know so far from Purdey:-
Dear Mr. Rowe
Thank you for your email. The rifle you have purchased is a Martini action, which we appear to have brought in from the Birmingham trade, as indicated by the proof marks and the B under crossed pennants, which I believe is the mark of the Braendlin Armoury, seen in a shield on top of the action. From memory I believe it is quite early, as the safety-catch was not in use for very long, and this might be backed up by the number '1617', which would be the usage number of the patent (ie. This was the 1617 rifle built on this patent by that company). If there is a serial number on there, perhaps either in the 10,000 or 11,000 range, or beginning with an A, then I may be able to link it to a buyer. From the address and the markings, I believe it dates to the first half of the 1870s, but could be any date up until 1883, when we left Oxford Street for our current address.
I hope this is of use, but if you have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact me.
Yours sincerely
Nicholas Harlow
Gun Sales Team
James Purdey & Sons Ltd.
DDI: +44 (0) 20 3428 2120
Mobile: +44 (0) 7435 414837
www.purdey.com
What I'd like to know:-
There is one marking which is A11, does that mean anything?
Do I need to pull the rifle apart to find a serial number, it would be unusual to not to mark it?
Can you tell me if it is a mk1 or mk2 by looking at it?
What was it used for?
Is it rare and what could it be worth?
Is the 56 on top worth noting...I haven't fired it yet?
Thanks for any ideas you have!
https://image.invaluable.com/housePhotos/SouthBay/48/597148/H2373-L106135460.jpg
https://image.invaluable.com/housePhotos/SouthBay/48/597148/H2373-L106135460.jpg
https://image.invaluable.com/housePhotos/SouthBay/48/597148/H2373-L106135452.jpg
https://image.invaluable.com/housePhotos/SouthBay/48/597148/H2373-L106135420.jpg
https://image.invaluable.com/housePhotos/SouthBay/48/597148/H2373-L106135435.jpg
https://image.invaluable.com/housePhotos/SouthBay/48/597148/H2373-L106135447.jpg
https://image.invaluable.com/housePhotos/SouthBay/48/597148/H2373-L106135466.jpg
https://image.invaluable.com/housePhotos/SouthBay/48/597148/H2373-L106135431.jpg
| DoubleD |
| (.400 member) |
| 27/06/17 11:36 PM |
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Re: Purdy Martini Braendlin 1617 Patent
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First let me say you have a very lovely rifle
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What I'd like to know:-
There is one marking which is A11, does that mean anything?
I don't see that marking in the pictures, its form and location will give a clue to its meaning.
Quote:
Do I need to pull the rifle apart to find a serial number, it would be unusual to not to mark it?
You may find the serial number on the face of the receiver. Remove the forestock and look.
Quote:
Can you tell me if it is a mk1 or mk2 by looking at it?
It is neither. The correct "taxonomy" is MK I or MK II. I and II is not the same in this case as 1 and 2. Those marks designate British Military Martini's only. Your is not a military gun but follows the early pattern of the MK I Style action. Your rifle is a commercial rifle made by Braendlin Arms and retailed apparently by Purdey.
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What was it used for?
A gentlemans sporting rifle.
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Is it rare and what could it be worth?
Rare is a subjective term. I would certainly say there are not a lot of these around. But there are others similar.
Worth? Subjective also. Its worth what ever a buyer is willing to pay.
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Is the 56 on top worth noting...I haven't fired it yet?
That indicates the bore size is .442. It means that it takes 56 balls of bore size to equal a pound.
Do you have any idea what the chambering is? 577/450 Martini is 52, so it is not that.
| DarylS |
| (.700 member) |
| 28/06/17 01:08 AM |
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Re: Purdy Martini Braendlin 1617 Patent
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Yes - agreed, that is a nice rifle!
| 93x64mm |
| (.416 member) |
| 28/06/17 06:09 AM |
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Re: Purdy Martini Braendlin 1617 Patent
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David, you really have a fine Martini, certainly one to pass on that is for sure!
You will most definitely have to get your chamber cast so that you can ascertain exactly what cartridge your rifle is chambered for. Even if you you're still unsure, post these up & you should get back a response back quickly.
| paradox_ |
| (.375 member) |
| 28/06/17 01:01 PM |
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Re: Purdy Martini Braendlin 1617 Patent
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David
The "A" number may well be your Purdey number, where is it located ?
The two Purdey Retailed rifles I have has it placed on the trigger guard bow.
Quote that number to Nick, he may well be able to help.
Best
Eric
| DoubleD |
| (.400 member) |
| 28/06/17 01:27 PM |
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Re: Purdy Martini Braendlin 1617 Patent
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I see the A11 in front of the trigger bow, Agree with Eric. Probably a Purdey inventory or shop number.
| David |
| (.224 member) |
| 28/06/17 03:40 PM |
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Re: Purdy Martini Braendlin 1617 Patent
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Thanks for the complements and all the information.
The A11 is in the picture in front of the trigger guard, a bit faint.
I asked the Purdey guy about this...and you guys know your stuff!
From Purdey:-
Dear Mr. Rowe
A11 has no description recorded against it, but A12 was a Martini sold in 1886, so perhaps my previous theory was wrong, and it is later than I had suspected. We could account for the earlier address by it having been held on stock for some time, although if you could send me a photograph of where the serial number appears, I can better assess whether it is correct, or irrelevant.
Ridiculous as this may seem, retailed arms often turn up without the number, so it would not necessarily be unusual to find them without any retail serial number. However, that we put the address on does suggest that it should also bear a number (later A series arms I have seen were not engraved with our address).
In terms of the action itself, I believe if you look up either the Mark 1 military action, or perhaps even the trials pattern, you will find the safety catch. However, civilian rifles do not always correspond directly to military models, as one has different requirements to the other.
I hope that is of some assistance.
Yours sincerely
Nicholas Harlow
Gun Sales Team
| David |
| (.224 member) |
| 28/06/17 04:05 PM |
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Re: Purdy Martini Braendlin 1617 Patent
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I hope it isn't a .450 long boxer, it hard enough finding "affordable" ammo as it is!
The last guy was using 577/450, is that possible?
| David |
| (.224 member) |
| 28/06/17 04:11 PM |
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Re: Purdy Martini Braendlin 1617 Patent
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The chamber is 2 2/3 inch
| Bidgee |
| (.375 member) |
| 28/06/17 05:07 PM |
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Re: Purdy Martini Braendlin 1617 Patent
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That is a lovely Martini that you have acquired. Hope you have success in sorting out ammunition for it!
| DoubleD |
| (.400 member) |
| 28/06/17 10:56 PM |
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Re: Purdy Martini Braendlin 1617 Patent
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He could have been using 577/450, But I don't think that is what it is, unless the barrel has been recut or relined- 45 would be marked for 52 balls to the pound. 56 ball is .442.
Some thoughts on this. Pure wild thoughts. When measuring bore in these old guns they are talking about the minor or smallest measure in the bore. In standard rifling that would be the Lands. In Henry rifling the bore or minor diameter is the top of the peaks and the center of the flats. The groove or corner of the flats in Henry are major diameters. So if the minor diameter is .442 it is 56 ball. If the groove or major diameter is the standard .005" deep that makes the major diameter of a .442 bore, .452 or 52 balls.
It may appear the barrel has been refinished. All the markings every where else on the gun are crisp and sharp. Barrel proofs are more washed out. I think this is as should be. The gun may have been provided proofed to Purdey in the white and the marks got washed in the finish.
This is very likely as I doubt Breandlin provide this gun to Purdey engraved. I am pretty sure Purdey is responsible for the engraving. They would have polished the gun first and then engraved and finished. Any existing marks would washed.
You do need to do a chamber cast and a bore slugging,
I would slug from the muzzle the first time. As you push the slug down the bore prepare for the slug to go free about 8 inches up from the breech. If it does this is a military barrel.
I do not think the slug will go free in this gun. I do not think this a military barrel.
If it does drop, you need include a section of bore when you chamber cast and measure that for bullet size.
Rifling should be odd number-7 Henry flats and peaks, no lands or groove. It does not take special equipment to measure. It can be measured with your dial caliper. Hold the slug between loose jaws of the caliper. Keeping light thumb pressure on loose jaw, rotate the slug and watch the dial. The high number that repeats as you rotate is your measurement. Do several times.
If you have access to pin gauges, then a .441 pin gauge should run the bore and .442 should not enter. Run=drop in and go through the full length.
Now we need some full length pictures of your gun so we can see this beauty.
| David |
| (.224 member) |
| 29/06/17 06:13 AM |
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Re: Purdy Martini Braendlin 1617 Patent
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Thanks DD!
It's with Gary at safari at the moment. I'll pass on your idea's and see if he can work it out!
I only have a full length shot from the auction I bought it from, nice tiger stripe timber!
https://goo.gl/images/4VC8zY
I'm off to the Simpson desert for a couple of week now, I'll check in when I get back.
Thanks again all.
| DoubleD |
| (.400 member) |
| 30/06/17 05:16 AM |
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Re: Purdy Martini Braendlin 1617 Patent
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