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Very interesting hammer falling block, caliber 8,2x50R ( the old austrian military caliber). Barrel signed by Miller & Val. Greiss, " Kruppsch. Gussstahl". Engraving is an Suhl area work. Maybe the rifle itself is also an work from Suhl or Zella Mehlis. Mounted on an "Wiener Schnäpper" is an Svarovski Habicht 4x32. |
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That is certainly an exceptional rifle Being used to and familiar with the British Single Shot rifles this is similar but different The restrained (for most Continental arms) engraving is elegant and just right IMHO The peep sight and bolted lock shows best quality Is it yours? How does it shoot? For sale? Many thanks for posting TH44 |
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Alex Heinrich perhaps? A really great rifle and very similar to an Alex Henry action. |
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Yes its mine and not for sale...... Trying to find enough to write an article about it. I have some rounds of the Hirtenberger ammo, but havent shoot it yet. I have gone via google to an lot of pics from Henry and other similar actions, they are very close. Also this type of action where made in austria, but also quiete different. Especially i have not seen an underlever like this? |
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Very nice, you would have to be happy to own it. I am not familiar with the 8.2 x 50R, what would it compare with? Thanks for the post. |
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taken from wiki: 244 gr (16 g) M90 RN 1,950 ft/s (590 m/s) 2,059.74 ft·lbf (2,792.63 J) 244 gr (16 g) M93 RN 2,035 ft/s (620 m/s) 2,243.22 ft·lbf (3,041.40 J) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8%C3%9750mmR_Mannlicher the hirtenberger ammo is loaded with an 196 grs. bullet., i dont know any ballistic data for this in the moment. |
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the Hirtenberger ballistic must have been in the older Frankonia catalogs, think it was in itup to 92/93. the Hirtenberger load was very late and short lived and I think it was not made before 1985. before there was only the Kynoch softpoint load http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=5519794 available into the 1970s from old stock. It seems Sellier&Bellot was making hunting ammo also in the 1960s here is surplus ammo for sale http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=5521190 |
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Now THAT is special. |
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Very nice, thanks for posting. |
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Hello - Nice rifle. How does the lever lock in the "closed" position, a photo of the mechanism would be very nice. Thanks |
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Quote: The lever just snaps under the steel grip cap, depending on an little bit tension. |
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interesting: ordance WW1 ammo with the full jacket bullet will not fit the chamber. The bullet is to long. Hirtenberger 196grs. : ordnance WW1 Left ordance, right Hirtenberger |
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Quote:Could this indicate that twist of barrels suits better for lighter bullets....? |
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remarkable problem, could indicate the rifle was made for the DWM 10 gramm softpoint load I think this is the round the 15,6 gramm roundnose bullet is a good idea on big game up the 150 meter but as a moutain rifle on chamois maybe not the best. could be the rifle was ordered just to shoot this load. maybe its possible to load the post war Kynoch cartridge because this roundnose is longer and more "spitzer". Kynoch, DWM, bulgarian surplus |
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The stamping ahead of the S# on the bottom flat would indicate the gun is meant for the 15.6gram bullet - or even perhaps a 156grain bullet, would it not? |
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156/14 is the old german caliber stamp used until 1911 to indicate the caliber. Its just an fluke that it is the same with an bullet weight. As you see in the list for the proofing was used an 17,1 gramm bullet. The list gives an bullet weight from 13,1 gramm for the usual ammunition. |
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Ahh- interesting, but not understood. |
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Quote: i think so too but have no round to check this. |
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Before 1911 in germany exist an system from calibernumbers that indicates the caliber. Its the same like shotgun calibers as 12, 16 or 20, the numbers are saying only indirect the real caliber. The 156/14 says that the caliber on this rifle is not smaller than 7,87mm from groove to groove. By proofing an higher bullet weight than the usual was used. |
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Quote:Quote: your next chance http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=5519794 |
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Quote:Quote:Quote: thanks for this....... |
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Chapman - thank you for the explanation. |
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Quote: Right in part only. The gauge numbers did not indicate the groove diameter, but a diameter between the lands only. It was measured at the proofhouse using cylindrical plugs. The largest number that passed the barrel was stamped. There were no intermediate steps from gauge number to gauge number. Here a # 156.14 = 7.87 mm = .310" plug passed the barrel. but a # 141.96 = 8.13 mm = .320" one did not. So the actual bore/land diameter of a Barrel marked 156.14 may have been as large as 8.12 mm = .319". The powder charges and bullet weights for preliminary proof, final proof and service load in the 1892 tables were for black powder proof using cylindrical lead bullets only, in no way related to the then evolving, new smokeless cartridges. In 1893 a new proof rule for rifles using the M88 8x57I cartridge was installed: The Spandau arsenal produced a special smokeless proof powder: Used at the same charge weight as the then military flake powder behind the regulation 14.7 gramm = 227 gr bullet, it produced a 4000 atmospheres pressure, a 33% overload in this cartridge. Soon the proofhouses used this powder for other Nitro rifle cartridges too. Rifles proofed this way were not marked with the familiar eagle + BGU marks, but with a big crown + a small crown over N. This smokeless proof was sometimes used by the Suhl and Zella – Mehlis proofhouses until 1923. (Oberndorf / Mauser proofhouse did not use these marks on their commercial M98 action rifles. As those were offered only as rifles and only for smokeless cartridges, they deemed it superfluous to mark them other than crown/B = proof load fired and crown/U = viewed for defects.) The 8x50R Mannlicher then used a long, heavy 15.8 gramm = 244 gr .323" bullet in a .313" land, .329" groove diameter barrel, depending on the long bullet setting up from the sudden blow of the fast burning, high pressure Austrian smokeless powder. |
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Chapmen, TH44 hit the nail on the head, a beautiful rifle with exquisite engraving & fittings that just speaks volumes for old world craftsmanship. I suppose the new scope will be for your eyes - if anything like mine they're definitely not as good as they use to be! Can you make your own cast projectiles over in Germany or can you only use factory ammunition? If you can reload, what twist is the rifling? Daryl is a whiz when it comes to that & should be able to calculate what you require, but the actual groove diameter will be needed. Will be nice to see this 'old lady' sing again, reckon a few deer will be in serious trouble when she does! Cheers 93x64mm |
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Just made an casting. barrel is 7.92mm / 8.15mm, throat 8.3mm. Twist is 320mm / what is around 12,5". I am in the lucky position to have an quite big ammount of the Hirtenberger factory made ammo, so i think i dont have do reload the next twenty years. But also it would be interesting to know what the rifle says to cast bullets....and yes, i can cast bullets on my own. |
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Quote: My mistake- i mixed groove and land ........ |
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seems you are quite right with the Hirtenberger ammo in this rifle. would be nice if you can shoot this load through a chrony sometimes. |