(.300 member)

10/01/13 01:30 PM

10 gague ball gun

I will start a new thread as I have started to shoot balls from this gun. I loaded 4 .748 balls in shells that I took the shot and shot cup out of and replaced it with the ball and a shot cup that I had cut the bottom and the fingers off I used fiber wads and one over powder card and a 6 segment crimp to keep it all in. they shop ok I had 3 holes in the board in a 8" group not very good but would have killed any deer that was hit. I also loaded one new shell with a load of 34.5 grains of SR7625 and the shot cup with the seal cut from the bottom and the fingers cut back to just keep the ball centered with 3 felt wads and one over powder card the other shell I loaded was the same load of SR7625 with the shot cup cup as befor but with 4 felt wads and a 8 segment crip. These last two were on the same plane and about 11/2" apart just to the right of the spot I was shooting at. I will have to load a few more of them to see how they are really shooting but if I can repeat the shot plasment I would be happy with it. All the shells droped from the gun so I fell that the load is not to much I doin't have a way to see the F.P.S. but they felt a little stronger then the shots that I took with the shells that I made from just replacing the shot load. 34.5 grains is a load I got from the card that came with the lee hand tools I got to load the 10 gauge and its for a load of 2oz shot. well I will have to load some more of that load to see if it really will be as good as I hope will post new loads as I get them shot and checked.
Tom N

(.275 member)

11/01/13 01:24 AM

Re: 10 gague ball gun

I dont have any experience with this type of gun (if its what I think it is) but I am interested to learn.

It would help me out to know what your gun is? Is it an old black powder single shot? A Double?

The 8 inch groups at 25 / 50 /100 yards?

Are the balls little bigger than the bore? This is smooth bore? Rifled?

If this is an old gun, I wonder if it might be better to begin with black powder and try smokeless later?

(.416 member)

11/01/13 02:01 AM

Re: 10 gague ball gun

Tom-

Why not Goex FFg and lubed felt wadding..?

Cheers
Tinker

(.700 member)

11/01/13 02:22 AM

Re: 10 gague ball gun

Sounds promising, Tom. I'd probably be looking more toward a load of Blue Dot, SR4756, Unique, Herco or Longshot.
I'll see what I can find for loads.
Tinker has a good point for some further testing.
fourbore - double 10 bore - hammerless 3 1/2" shotgun

(.300 member)

11/01/13 03:24 AM

Re: 10 gague ball gun

Fourbore its a Spainish double 10 bore 3 1/2" shotgun, I am trying to get it to shot balls Looks like it will be good as the first load I shot seams to group good will have to load some meore to make sure that it wasn't just luck. I think I see why the crimp will fold back when you use to much pressure its because a ball is round and not flat on top so when you press to hard the ends of the crimp will slide down the sied of the ball as thier is no place for them to press agenst as in a load of shot the that is flat accros the top.
Daryl SR7625 was the only powder that I sean that I had a load for that I though I would be able to use I didn't see any blue dot or the other you talked about. I think that It has to do with the gun control think going on right now they didn't have much in the way of firearms eather as their is a lot of approhention as to wha is going to happen. I ordered the mighty 10 gague from BPI yesterday so that should be getting here within the next few days and it should have a lot of load data in it that I will be trying.
Tom N

(.300 member)

11/01/13 03:30 AM

Re: 10 gague ball gun

Tinker I doin't want to ues black powder at this time as all I have are Fed. plaist hulls and I have read that its not to good for black not that you can;t use them but just that its not the best. I did look and found out that I can get brass cases at Rocky Mountain and I will proubly get some at some point but I would just like to get it shooting good first.
Tom N

(.275 member)

11/01/13 05:22 AM

Re: 10 gague ball gun

Thank you. This should be interesting. I had a Spanish 10ga double (richland 311??), now I may wish I kept that.

(.700 member)

11/01/13 06:24 AM

Re: 10 gague ball gun

Brass cases could require 9 bore wads, me thinks.

Reloading for Shotgunners - Robert S.L. Anderson

1 7/8oz. load
3 1/2" RP Plastic case
RP57* Primer
SP10 wad with 1/4" Fed. 16 bore fiber wad to reduce capacity
running
37.0gr. Herco
1,280fps at 10,500LUP.

RP Plastic 3 1/2"
RP57* primer
34.0gr. Herco
SP10 with 16 ga. 1/4" fiber filler
2ounces shot
12,10fps
10,200LUP

My data is - WW. 3 1/2" hull shortened to 3"
42.0gr. Blue Dot & SP10 wad
85%(1.7ounces) to 95% (2 ounces) both barrels - AYA Matador with ground chokes.

3 1/2" Fed plastic
Fexd209 primer
RP SP 10 wad
2 ounces shot
43.5gr. Blue Dot
1,210fps
10,200LUP
This one went 80% in both barrels

different book

2 1/4ounces
Winchester 3 1/2" plastic
WW209 primer
42.5gr. SR4756
Pacific Versalite
2 1/4ounce shot
1,175fps
10,000LUP - cleanest burning 2 1/4ounce load listed

2 ounces
Winchester 3 1/2" plastic
WW209 primer
48.5gr. SR4756
SP10
1,305fps
9,900-LUP beat patterns in this case

2 ounces
RP 3 1/2" hull
RP 57* primer
34.0gr. Herco
RP SP10 w/20 gauge .135" card
1,210fps @ 10,200LUP

RP 3 1/2" plastic
CCI157 primer
41.5gr. SR7625
SP10 wad
1,235fps 9,600LUP

1 7/8oz.
3 1/2" RP plastic
RP 57* primer
37.0gr. Herco
SP10 w/20 bore .135" card
1,280fps
10,500LUP

2ounces shot
3 1/2" Federal plastic
Fed 209 primer
46.5gr. SR4756
SP10 wad
1,300fps
(,800
LUP - author's favourite cold weather load.(Robert S.L. Anderson - 2nd edition)

You can find further loads in Lyman's Shotshell handbooks.

(.700 member)

11/01/13 06:33 AM

Re: 10 gague ball gun

Lyman's second edition 1976 has data in the buck and slug section that might be of interest due to the built up wad columns, lighter than 2 or 2 1/4ounce shot loads as well as higher velocities. It also has 2 7/8" hull loads - plastic SP and paper WW hulls.

(.300 member)

11/01/13 07:12 AM

Re: 10 gague ball gun

Daryl thanks I will try some of those loads with a ball instade of shot will try to work up to top load but ball will be a lot lighter then the shot so should not be to bad on pressure. Tom N.

(.700 member)

11/01/13 11:14 AM

Re: 10 gague ball gun

I don't see a problem with the ball either. When I subbed, I was also using a ball lighter than the shot charge.
The shot loads I used, were 1,340fps loads and I easily got them to 1,550fps with smokeless powder - which duplicated the 7 dram black powder load for speed.
Greener's book will tell you what the BP load was, when you get your brass cases.
Made me curious - the only 10 bore load I see at a glance, is:

.775" - 670gr. "bullet" = slghtly hardened Round ball as a .775" ball's weight in pure lead is listed as 700gr.
273gr. powder, = 10 drams
11 pound "rifle"
1,600fps = 3,829fpe
recoil is listed as a mere 79.8pounds sounds like fun so far.
I expect a smokeless load at same speed with a 1 1/4ounce ball will have recoil in the 35 to 40 pound region- quite managable - but, one should fire the BP load, just to experience it. Make certain all your stock attachment screws are tight. BP kicks more than smokeless.

(.300 member)

11/01/13 04:31 PM

Re: 10 gague ball gun

Daryl thanks I would like to use black at some point but would like to get a good shooting load first. I loaded 6 shells tonight and I got a very good crimp with the lee hand tool they have stayed crimped and I didn't push the crimp to far into the hull what I did was get a C clamp and used that to put the crimp in so that they look like factory loads. I used the bottom of the shot cup cut off then a 1/4" over powder card and 3 1/2" felt wads that puts the ball just at the line where the shell folds to crimp and has some pressure on the ball and wad's I will try them tomrrow If I get the chanch to go to the range. I'll keep everyone posted as to what works and what dosen't Tom N.

(.700 member)

12/01/13 02:05 AM

Re: 10 gague ball gun

A fiber wad that has a 3/8" cut-out will hold the ball centred in the bore just as easily as a plastic cup wad.

(.375 member)

14/01/13 10:37 AM

Re: 10 gague ball gun

Daryl - How do you get the 3/8" cut - out central to the bore?

I have a 10 bore gun that will be ideal for ball - 26 inch barrel but am unsure of getting a good shot - I have tried normal shot shells with shot removed and ball inserted with reasonable results but would like better

Many thanks

TH

(.700 member)

14/01/13 11:48 AM

Re: 10 gague ball gun

You could try a 3/8" arch punch but that will probably split the donnaconna wads), or a 3/8" straight sided hole saw in a drill press. Tinker here, and maybe Curl makes holed wads.

Francis Sell used to do this to improve his 20 bore goose patterns. The hole in the base wad held the shot together for denser patterns in the 20" killing centre. He probably got the idea from cheaters in the patterning contests in England,noted in Greener's #9 book. That's where I saw it first, when I got my book in 1977. Sell wrote it up in Gun Digest in the late 70's or probably 80's.

Personally, I used the gas check cups cut from spent WWAA12 trap wads. I don't know what else to use for a 10 bore other than 2 cards or 1 fibre wad. You could use a ball diameter that fits perfectly inside the top part of a 10 bore shot cup, with 12 or 16 bore wads beneath it to give the proper height for crimping.

(.300 member)

15/01/13 09:47 AM

Re: 10 gague ball gun

Well I went to the range today and shot the 6 loads that I had loaded on sunday. The frist two went just where I was aiming and about 3" appart just at the top of the bull. the next 2 one in the same hole or right next to it but the 3ed one was high about 8" but on left and right and the last two one in with the other 2 and one off to the right about 8" so I had 3 in a group of aroud 3" and the other 3 opend it to about 8" all would have killed a deer but I want a lot better group then this. I think that I will have to get the shot cup cut the same each time as right now I am using just sizers to cut the peddles off the shot cup and their for I might be getting longer and shoter shot cup and that may be what is casing the flyers. I think that next time that I go to the range I will take two targets to see if its one barrell or both.
This for Daryl I have been reading your posts and how does a cloth patch stay on the ball I would think that it would be pulled off as the ball goes out of the hull and unfolds the crimp just looks like it wouldn't stay and keep the ball centered.

Tom N

(.300 member)

19/01/13 02:19 PM

Re: 10 gague ball gun

Have some new ?'s I just ordered a roll cimper and a thing that is for fixing the fold on a shot shell so one can refold it right or mabe use a roll crimp. I also ordered some .760 balls in hope of getting better groups with the 10 boer. So first ? do you have to trim the shell off some to get a roll crimp or just use the tool and roll it down this is using new hulls.I think that you would have to trin some if using once fired. If its not tight can you just keep rolling it till you get a good roll crimp or I though I seen or read that you just roll it more to get the right hight and pressure if its close to right in the first place. sorry to ask so meany ? as I have never loaded shot shells befor and all this
is is very new to me and loading balls and slugs are not even close to loading rifle loads.
Tom N.

(.700 member)

20/01/13 02:35 AM

Re: 10 gague ball gun

I do not know HOW it stays, except the wad beneath it, is pushing on it. It certainly seems to stay just from the accuracy achieved and clean shooting with black powder loads. Without it, the fouling tends to build up, which hurts accuracy.
Middle row. These are 16 bore cases - 14 bore wads (oversize) with 14 bore and 16 bore balls for the rifled 13 bore barrel. The cloth patched 16 bore balls were the most accurate, and of course, the cleanest shooting.

(.300 member)

23/01/13 06:35 AM

Re: 10 gague ball gun

I will be going to the range today and try some of the loads that I have been using whitch are SR7625 at 34.5 grains with a shot cup that has been cut down with .748 balls. This time I took care to get the fingers cut at the same hight to hold the ball centered. I also loaded some .690 balls in the same shot cup as they fit just right inside the cup and all I have to do is cut the fingers at the top of the ball. I know that these are small for a 10 gauge but its what I have on hand and with the way that they fit in the shot cup they may be the best for shooting. I also have on order some .760 balls they should be here sometime this week along with a spin doctor for preping the hull mounth and a roll crimper to try to get a better crimps on the balls. Does anyone know if they make .690 slugs that can be ordered as these would also fit inside the shot cup and would be heaver then the balls. I also have on order some Fed. 13/4 oz. slug loads as I would like to try them. I doin't think that will shoot to the same point of aim but they are worth a try. will let ya all know how it all works out.

Tom N

(.700 member)

23/01/13 09:26 AM

Re: 10 gague ball gun

Lyman makes a .69 calibre Minnie Ball (hollow base). This 730gr. pure lead projectile was the one used in the .69 calibre rifled muskets in the 50's and 60's. The standard military charge was 70gr. as opposed to the 60gr. charge used in the .58's and .54's with their Minnie Ball loads. The .69's, which were merely muskets that had been rifled to the .58 Minnie Rifle pattern, ie: progressive depth from .003" at the muzzle to .011" deep at the breech. The bores remained consistant at .690".

It is possible that Dixie Gun Works has something as well.

The Lyman Minnie, the original pattern slug will either make you cringe or smile. It is only 30gr. heavier than a pure lead 10 bore round ball.

(.700 member)

23/01/13 09:36 AM

Re: 10 gague ball gun

I once bored a mould with a rounded (ground to a hemisphere shape), 11/16" (.687") high speed drill held in a drill press. It turned out to cast .686" hollow based "balls", which when rolled between a very large, coarse wood rasp and several thicknesses of terry cloth towels, grew in size to .692". Being adjustable, it cast from 580gr. to 1,200gr. I only shot the light ones and with 140gr. 2F of powder, they kicked too much- for me. That much powder was needed to cause them to shoot to the sights, which were regulated for a 165gr. of 2f and a round ball zero'd at 100 meters.
That type of bullet be a very good idea.
We bored an old .490" Lyman round ball mould, I think it was. I could check as I still have it. It casts a perfectly hemispherically nosed bullet, with a hollow base. The base plunger was turned from a 2" piece of drill shank, cut from the mould's drill.

(.300 member)

23/01/13 10:14 AM

Re: 10 gague ball gun

Just got back form the range nothing to wright home about the .748 were in a box that was 11 inches wide by 61/2 inches high and I couldn't find one of the shots from the right barrell. the .690 balls were in a box that was 71/2 X 61/2 inchs two of the shots were 31/2" from poi one was 41/2" and one was 3" from poi right on right and left on left in a box. I think that that load was going slow as I could hear the balls hitting the back stop board after the shot and this was at 50 yards I think that with a little work this load might work will have to shoot more then 4 shots to make sure the it is repeatable. It would be a happy suprise if the slugs shot to poi and in a good group but I doin"t have a lot of hope. Daryl thanks for the tip in the .69 minnie ball will have to look to see if I can get some.
Tom N

(.300 member)

27/01/13 11:02 AM

Re: 10 gague ball gun

I have recived my copy of loading slugs from BPI It has only 2 loads for slugs in 10 gauge and they seam to use a 12 gauge slug with two raps of teflon tape that is also sold by BPI but at lest they give me the type and number of wads that go into loading it. It just seams odd that you would use a 12 gauge slug and not one for a 10. When I get done using the powder that I have now I will get the powder and slugs that it tells me to and try them.
Tom N

(.700 member)

28/01/13 12:50 AM

Re: 10 gague ball gun

Tom- in your descrtiption of the patterns, you used poi, stating they balls or slugs were 3" to the right of it, etc.

I think you mean point of aim - poa which is where you are aiming, not point of impact - poi, which is where the projectile actually lands. The slugs and balls/bullet always land on the point of impact - small point and probably nitpicking but misuse of terms can cause confusion. no biggie.

(.300 member)

31/01/13 12:34 PM

Re: 10 gague ball gun

Picked up my 10 gauge slugs today 13/4 oz from Fed. they are the only ones that load slugs for the 10 gauge. 1280 fps. I am hoping to get to the range tommrow and see how they shoot. Daryl yes I was think of poa. I still doin't get loading a 12 gauge slug with teflon rapped arown it to use in a 10 gauge but that is what the slug load is saying and they only have two loads for it. Well have a good night all.
Tom N

(.300 member)

01/02/13 07:22 AM

Re: 10 gague ball gun

Just returned from the range and it was a waste of time the slugs shot high low left and right but never to any kind of group. the round balls that I used to replace shot in shot shells were better then the slugs. Well I will be trying the .760 balls next and some more of the .690 balls as they wrer the best shooting so far just need to be consistent in loading them. I will also be trying to use a roll crimp with the balls now that I have a roll crimper. I think that I will also try to use a cloth patch on some of the .760s as they are only .015 smaller then the bore. Well till next time . Tom N

(.700 member)

01/02/13 10:52 AM

Re: 10 gague ball gun

Usually the closer they fit the bore, the better, Tom.
We tightly patch balls in our smoothbore guns for shooting the black powder trail.

It doesn't happen often, but there are times when one of the better shooters who is using a 28 or 20 bore smoothbore with patched round balls, will outshoot a rifle over the entire course of 50 targets.

The ranges vary from a card split at about 14 yards and small plates as close as 25 or 30 yards to larger ones to 110yards. One of the most challenging is a snowshoe hare hanging on a chain at 100yards - it's a difficult rifle target, yet I've seen all 4 guys in a smoothbore group, hit it one after the other.

You might try a patched ball inside a shotcup, if it will fit inside a plastic hull and still chamber. different thicknesses of cloth will vary the outside diameter considerably.

(.300 member)

01/02/13 12:39 PM

Re: 10 gague ball gun

Thanks Daryl I was thinking of just putting a patch on one of the .760 balls and push it through the barrell and see how tight it was if it will go through I will try to get it into a shell without a shot cup and see what it will do I am hopeing that it will take the place of the shot cup as I haven't found munch in the 10 bore that has a concave cup to keep the ball centered. I think that that is why the .690 balls were the best ones so far as they would just fit into the shot cup and with the fingers of the cup cut at the midline or just above I could crimp it so it was tight and didn't move arown in the shell. I will be trying them with a roll crimp and hopeing I can get to the range tommrow but probly can't get their till Monday as I try to stay away on the weekends well have a good evening all.

Tom N

(.333 member)

01/02/13 02:13 PM

Re: 10 gague ball gun

When I was in my teens I was possum trapping in the bush in New Zealand. I got the bright idea that a cheap single barrel 12 gauge with an 18" barrel would be just right to carry slung over my back to nab the odd deer or pig that one runs across every now and then. It was cheap enough to carry in all kinds of weather (it was usually raining) and light at 5 1/2 lbs.

I loaded ammo using Dad's shotshell reloader and just pouring out the shot and replacing it with a ball that was a good fit in the barrel inside the shot wad. It star crimped sort of OK. I have no idea what the load was. Amazingly, it shot fist sized groups at 50 yards and I can tell you the ball would rake a pig from one end to the other.

It was quite a handful though...

(.300 member)

02/02/13 03:26 AM

Re: 10 gague ball gun

Mike I have done that my self but I pulled out the shot cup to and replaced it with one that I had cut off the fingers of the shot cup they shot but not well. I reloade with L.E.E hanc tools it works but to get a good fold crimp I have to use a large C clamp and look at the fold two or three times as I am putting it in or it will push the folds inside the shell. I got a roll crimper so the next ones I will try will be roll crimped.
Tom N

(.224 member)

14/05/13 06:00 AM

Re: 10 gague ball gun

Dear all,

Pardon my ingnorance but how do you patch these balls with paper or cloth. Any previous posts/books/articles touching this topic? I would like to shoot this in a 12ga greener martini shotgun.
Benny

(.700 member)

15/05/13 01:34 AM

Re: 10 gague ball gun

The undersized, but cloth patched balls were more accurate than the larger balls that engraved in the rifling.(16 bore 2 5/8" brass from Buffalo Arms)

30 years ago, I shot round balls from a 12 bore double, using the base cup gas check cut from used WAA12 (white) trap wads. The gas check was was placed under the ball, cup-up to hold the ball in the centre of the bore for it's trip down the tube. They shot very well for me. Friends of mine wanted to carry these loads with them while duck hunting, just in case a moose happened by- this happened often.

Because they were using full choked duck guns, I suggested cloth patching the ball with cloth thick enough that they could 'just' push it through the choke, and load that in a shotshell, using the highest speed 1 1/8ounce load they could find in their shotgun loading manuals. They did this and reported excellent results on moose to 50yards with impressive penetration, from their pump action duck guns.

If using black powder, a decent 12 bore load would be 5 drams + the requisite wads to get the column height correct for either roll or folded crimp. Lyman shotshell loading books have data.

Get the wad column right, then lay the cloth patch over the ctg. mouth and press in the ball. I use denim as it is very tough and it's available in many different thicknesses, from 6 ounce to 12 ounce, about .010" to .030".

(.300 member)

16/05/13 03:44 PM

Re: 10 gague ball gun

I'm still trying to get the 10 bore to shoot balls without much luck still hitting in a 9x9 inch box most of the time. the best load that I have used is a .690 ball in a shot cup that I cut down so that it is just to the midline of the ball the ball fits sung in the cup and the cup is for the 10 gauge so the ball is centered in the bore. most of the time if I shoot 6 rounds I will get 3 that are in a 3 to 4 inch box the other 3 will open it up to 8 to 9 inch box. this is all with a diper that came with the L.E.E hand tools I think that I will have to start using my powder scale. I think part of what is happing is the diff. you get with diping powder it may be why I get the flyers for about half of the load that I use. I tryed cutting the shot cups down for the .760 balls that I have but you have to make them shorter and its hard to get them all the same. I think that I will work some more with them maby using a patch and a folded crimp. I have been useing a roll crimp of late as its easer to make and faster like I said I have to use a c clamp to do the fold crime to get them to stay in and look good but if I use a patch I think that I would have to use a fold crimp. Well have a good day all let you know how things work out.

Tom N

(.700 member)

17/05/13 02:14 AM

Re: 10 gague ball gun

Keep experimenting, Tom. The folded crimp will work more consistently with patches, for sure. The rolled lip could possibly pull off the patch as it goes by.
Powder charges need to be consistent.
What powder and load are you using?

(.300 member)

17/05/13 04:22 AM

Re: 10 gague ball gun

Daryl I am using 34.5 grains of 7625 this with a diper that came with the LEE tools I will use the scale for a more consistent load and see if that helps the flyers some. The load that I am using is for a 2 oz. load of shot from the loading card that came with the tools so a round ball is just over half the whight so should be able to go up some in powder I would think. will just have to keep at it and see what happens. I also got a B.P.I slug loading book but It,s not of much help as their are no slugs for the 10 gauge you have to wrap a 12 gauge with two teflon wraps to get it to 10 gauge and then load it. some can get to about 1300 fps or just a little more so I think that I will be better of with just round balls. thanks.
Tom N.

NitroExpress.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5

Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact

Copyright 2003 to 2011 - all rights reserved