| Omnivorous_Bob |
| (.333 member) |
| 01/05/08 04:02 PM |
4-Bore Elephant
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My 4-bore finally drew blood, for the first time in my hands at least.
The bullet was a very hard conical that weighed 1965 grains (127.5 grams stamped on the bottom)in this alloy, over 75 grains of Blue Dot for about 1125fps. I've shot these much faster but this makes a follow up shot reasonable. The first shot was at about 65-70 yards and was under the skin on the far shoulder. The recovered bullet weigh 1953gns.
Bob
| Nakihunter |
| (.375 member) |
| 01/05/08 05:59 PM |
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Re: 4-Bore Elephant
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What make is the gun? I'd like to read more about the hunt. Congratulations.
| rigbymauser |
| (.400 member) |
| 01/05/08 08:39 PM |
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THanx Omni!
What a great rifle...and what a great way to make it draw blood.....in africa.
What make is your gun?
When was it made approx?
Was it easy to get it on the airplanes(paperwork)
Please post some pictures of that double 4 bore of yours....please
Jens
NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 01/05/08 08:49 PM |
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Wow. Impressive!
| gatsby |
| (.375 member) |
| 01/05/08 11:51 PM |
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By gobs Rob you did it!! Very impressive. I will be awaiting all the details. I am sure Ray M. was smiling.
| DarylS |
| (.700 member) |
| 02/05/08 12:32 AM |
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Way to go BOB!!!!
| Omnivorous_Bob |
| (.333 member) |
| 02/05/08 01:56 PM |
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Re: 4-Bore Elephant
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The rifle is a single shot Thomas Bland from the 1890s. A bunch of details on the gun are in an old post: 4-bore
The hunt was in the Matetsi River area of Zim south of Victoria Falls with Gary Hopkins (ghopkins@mweb.co.zw). I shot the bull about 10pm in the moon light. It was much farther than I'd planned to shoot, but we were in position when some locals spooked them and they were leaving in a hurry. It was dark enough that I couldn't see the sights against him, but lined them up below and raised the gun and shot. Fortunately it fits very well and has a large flat rib filed on the barrel and I did most of my practicing at either 50 or 60 yds. We hit him again in the hip as they departed, then tracked him the next day. I carried two pure lead bullets in case I saw a must have zebra or kudu while carrying the 4, but didn't use them. A VERY fun hunt!
I didn't have any trouble with transporting the rifle or ammo, but was very worried about losing the ammo in the states after hearing some horror stories. I carried copies of every airline and government regulation I could think of and referenced them on the ammo boxes, along with a conspicuous note to the TSA asking them to PLEASE page me if they had any questions. I put offical looking labels on my ammo boxes and shrink wrapped them also, but they still cut each of them open. I don't know if that helped, but it made it there.
I'm still smiling
Bob
| Marrakai |
| (.416 member) |
| 02/05/08 08:43 PM |
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Re: 4-Bore Elephant
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OmniBob:
I went looking for that thread on your Bland 4-bore, but didn't go back far enough! Time sure flies!
Add my congratulations too. There are many who would own such a gun for the kudos but would never dream of putting it to it's intended use. My hat's off to you, mate!
| JabaliHunter |
| (.400 member) |
| 02/05/08 11:29 PM |
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Fantastic! Just imagining the sights and smell and that thud as the bullet struck home!!
| degoins |
| (.333 member) |
| 03/05/08 12:23 AM |
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WAY TO GO BOB!!!! GREAT STUFF!!!
| mehulkamdar |
| (.416 member) |
| 05/05/08 05:52 AM |
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You must be congratulated not only for the fine trophy but for being brave enough to shoot an animal with that monster rifle!
Fantastic and may you have many more great hunts!
| Omnivorous_Bob |
| (.333 member) |
| 05/05/08 04:41 PM |
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Re: 4-Bore Elephant
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Thanks for all of the comments. I've been reading Baker, Selous, and the like for years, which is what originally got me interested in these old guns. I love researching and reading about the men who used and needed such arms. Since those days are gone forever, the next best thing to do in my mind is to go out into the field once in a while and experience them first hand. I consider myself lucky to be able to walk in their shoes for a brief while.
Also, I never cease to be amazed at the skill and ingenuity of the men who made guns like this. This rifle has a 3/4" wide rib painstakingly filed on the barrel (the cross section is like a teardrop with the point filed flat), and when I mounted the gun in the dark it immediately dawned on me that that was exactly the reason for it.
Finally, I sincerely hope that another hundred or two years from now someone else will still be hunting with guns like this and appreciate them as much as I do, and think about the sights they've seen.
Bob
| rigbymauser |
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| 05/05/08 11:48 PM |
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Re: 4-Bore Elephant
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Quote:
Thanks for all of the comments. I've been reading Baker, Selous, and the like for years, which is what originally got me interested in these old guns. I love researching and reading about the men who used and needed such arms. Since those days are gone forever, the next best thing to do in my mind is to go out into the field once in a while and experience them first hand. I consider myself lucky to be able to walk in their shoes for a brief while.
Also, I never cease to be amazed at the skill and ingenuity of the men who made guns like this. This rifle has a 3/4" wide rib painstakingly filed on the barrel (the cross section is like a teardrop with the point filed flat), and when I mounted the gun in the dark it immediately dawned on me that that was exactly the reason for it.
Finally, I sincerely hope that another hundred or two years from now someone else will still be hunting with guns like this and appreciate them as much as I do, and think about the sights they've seen.
Bob
I wished that were more of your kind....Second me on everything in the above statement
Borerifles are really a world by itself...full of history, and lots of power...and still working
. I must have my 10Bore Manton to africa one day, hopefully for elephanthunting too, but some "Pumbapopping" could do aswell 
| Anonymous |
| (Unregistered) |
| 06/05/08 12:12 AM |
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Congrats on a nice trophy! How was the weight of the gun to you on Safari?
| gatsby |
| (.375 member) |
| 06/05/08 02:17 AM |
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Rob,
I like your sentiment. These big cannons are truely a wonderment, especially when you are able to use them for their intended purpose, as you did. We are only caretakers of them for a very short while.
| Omnivorous_Bob |
| (.333 member) |
| 06/05/08 11:44 AM |
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DB600, the weight wasn't nearly as bad as I'd thought. This gun is a hair under 17lb. We got the elephant on the third day and did a good bit of walking every day, but I'm sure it would be a different story if it was a 21 day hunt! Also, temperatures were a mild 70-80 degrees. I admit to slinging to rifle more often then I should have, but did carry it in my hands in the thick stuff. For practice I filled a 2 foot piece of pvc with gravel and shot to make a weight to carry around without alarming the neighbors but never put in the hours and miles you do on a hunt.
Bob
| billeastern |
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| 25/12/08 01:26 AM |
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Re: 4-Bore Elephant
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Bob:
Is this your gun being shot? I know you are friends with Cal and looks says 4 bore in caption.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly140tZ4-rU&feature=related
| grandveneur |
| (.400 member) |
| 25/12/08 01:36 AM |
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Waidmannsheil! A rifle for elefant hunter ( deadly at both end, i suppose ?) !
| Omnivorous_Bob |
| (.333 member) |
| 25/12/08 10:49 AM |
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Yep, that's the same gun! Cal is shooting a full up 383 grain load of Goex FFg under a 2000 grain conical. The chronos he's shooting over are actually an Oehler with a Chrony nested inside. Only one gave a reading (a bit over 1500fps) but we had our doubts as to accuracy as the smoke cloud extends well beyond them. I think 1300+ is probably closer to reality. The load I used for the elephant was a comparatively sedate 1125fps.
Bob
| billeastern |
| (.275 member) |
| 25/12/08 02:55 PM |
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looks like a great time!
| lancaster |
| (.470 member) |
| 27/12/08 11:00 PM |
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thanks for showing its possible
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 10/05/11 01:32 AM |
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bttt
| rigbymauser |
| (.400 member) |
| 10/05/11 04:48 AM |
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Re: 4-Bore Elephant
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Quote:
bttt
You could posted the artical by George Hoyem I mailed to you
| Ben |
| (.400 member) |
| 10/05/11 07:16 AM |
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Wow! Thanks for posting this to the top for those of us who missed it! That is an awesome achievement and adventure, Bob. Well-done.
| FATBOY404 |
| (.400 member) |
| 10/05/11 07:43 AM |
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That was great.
Check out that bullet it looks like an idler from a dozer track.
| bufallo |
| (.224 member) |
| 10/05/11 08:02 PM |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCsVHcJTcEw
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 11/05/11 12:41 AM |
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Re: 4-Bore Elephant
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Another.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly140tZ4-rU
Double Rifle 4 Bore 2.
Cal Pappas shoots a 4-bore Thomas Bland with 14 drams, 385 grains of FFg GOEX powder, 2100-grain bullet at his shooting range in Willow, Alaska.
| 500grains |
| (.416 member) |
| 11/05/11 01:03 AM |
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Impressive.
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 11/05/11 01:21 AM |
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Stanley & Livingston 4 bore elephant gun. A National Firearms Museum Treasure Gun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_-kEY43irQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMejPK8ZdEo&NR=1
| Grenadier |
| (.375 member) |
| 11/05/11 04:17 AM |
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One shot forward - three steps back!
| Omnivorous_Bob |
| (.333 member) |
| 23/05/11 10:59 AM |
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Quote:
Stanley & Livingston 4 bore elephant gun. A National Firearms Museum Treasure Gun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_-kEY43irQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMejPK8ZdEo&NR=1
I saw this rifle (and LOTS of others)today!!! Impressive to say the least. I'll post pictures when I get home next week. Years ago I saw this rifle for sale (for $250K!) and heard someone subsequently donated it.
If you find yourself in the Washington DC area you should definitely stop by the museum. It's about 10-12 miles from Dulles airport, open 7 days a week, and free. Lots of movie guns, 3 600 nitros, gatlings, etc.
Bob
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 23/05/11 07:39 PM |
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Quote:
I'll post pictures when I get home next week.
Cool.
| Omnivorous_Bob |
| (.333 member) |
| 24/05/11 10:13 PM |
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I'll add more in the DR section. A great time!
Bob
| DarylS |
| (.700 member) |
| 25/05/11 12:37 AM |
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Bob - what is that rifle below the Leopard, please? It looks like a cross between a Rolling Block and a Ballard. Is what appears to be a hammer, a breech opening lever, or merely a hammer for a long firing pin? Could give a nasty gash to a stock climber.
| Omnivorous_Bob |
| (.333 member) |
| 25/05/11 09:38 AM |
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Re: 4-Bore Elephant
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Daryl, that is the Belgian 4-bore rifle that Stanley purchased in Zanzibar when he was enroute to look for Livingston. It is massive and looks like an overgrown rolling block. According to one of Stanley's books he dispatched several natives with it who were in hot pursute in canoes. I don't know any details as to weight or bore size.
Bob
| DarylS |
| (.700 member) |
| 25/05/11 11:15 AM |
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Tks bob - I was thining if the ctg. shown is correct for the gun, it might be an 8 instead judging by the appearance of length to bullet diameter?
Whatever, it's definitely an interesting piece.
Since I didn't see a rear rolling block ahead of the hammer, I figured a sort of Ballard-type action. The screws or pivot pins on the side of the action appear to be in the wrong possition for a rolling block - but stranger things have definitely happened in large bore gun actions which were custom made - back then - sometimes only a few manufactured or saved for posterity.
| gatsby |
| (.375 member) |
| 25/05/11 03:55 PM |
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Hey Bob,
Remember Lewis had this gun at one time. I kept the spec sheet on it, if I can find it. He also had another similar gun but of course not owned by Stanley. Where is that gun now? What a great old piece, just look at that recoil heel pad!
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 25/05/11 04:45 PM |
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Quote:Quote:
bttt
You could posted the artical by George Hoyem I mailed to you
I'd love to post the article, if I ever receive it!
Please send it. Thanks.
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 25/05/11 05:47 PM |
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Thanks Bob, I always enjoy your photos.
And love these old historic (or new) bore rifles.
We need more of them today for serious gun nuts.
| Omnivorous_Bob |
| (.333 member) |
| 26/05/11 06:03 PM |
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Thanks for the complement John. I greatly appreciate the work you do to keep up this site for us like minded guys.
Gatsby, I couldn't find the specs on Stanley's 4-bore from Lewis, but here is the description of the identical one he also had for sale at that time. I don't know who ended up buying it.
MASSIVE BELGIAN
4-bore single-barrel breech-loading rifle, c1870. Wt. 20-1/2 Ibs. 14-1/4" LOP over rubber recoil pad. Superb 26" rifled steel barrel is octagonal at breech, becoming round about half way to the muzzle. 100% reblack finish and bore absolutely mint. Rolling-block action (very similar to Remington rolling-block action is niceIy engraved and has 100% color hardening. Original straight-grip stock and forend have sharp checkering and 100% finish. This fine old rifle comes with about 20 rounds of custom brass arnmo, bullet mold, sizing die, and custom leather cheek pad, which laces on over the butt stock. This behemoth is the same type of 4-bore elephant rifle that H.M. Stanley purchased in Zanzibar for his foirst journey into the African interior in search of Dr. Livingstone and it will generate more muzzle energy than a modern .600 N.E. Take it along and add a whole new dimension to your next safari.
The round in the display case looked like a modern 4" 4-bore cartridge of around 1" diameter, but they had no details as to if that actually fit the gun. I wish there had been something in addidtion to the leopard to give a sense of scale, as it was a BIG gun.
Bob
| elvas |
| (.275 member) |
| 28/10/11 05:00 PM |
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Re: 4-Bore Elephant
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A 4-Bore and a 17 HMR. From the atelier of Mr. Hofer.
Lefteris
www.europeancartridgeunlimited.com
| bigdog |
| (.375 member) |
| 21/03/12 12:22 PM |
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Re: 4-Bore Elephant
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how about a few side shots of the 4 bore please?
| Ben |
| (.400 member) |
| 21/03/12 06:33 PM |
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Awesome to see this!
| elvas |
| (.275 member) |
| 22/03/12 10:47 AM |
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Some pictures of the 4 bore.
I will ask to have some more detailed pictures of both guns to post in a few days maybe.
Lefteris
www.europeancartridgeunlimited.com
| tinker |
| (.416 member) |
| 22/03/12 11:13 AM |
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Looks like the whole .17 rifle would fit inside one if the 4bore barrels.
| Sarg |
| (.400 member) |
| 22/03/12 03:24 PM |
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Impressive rifle's both !
Any one else notice the front sight block on the 4 Bore is over to the right barrel a lot ?
| elvas |
| (.275 member) |
| 29/03/12 05:59 PM |
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Sarg,
It looks so in the photo but actually it is perfectly centered. They wouldn't let a gun leave their shop with the front sight off center for no reason.
Lefteris
www.europeancartridgeunlimited.com