| prairie_ghost |
| (.300 member) |
| 23/05/22 11:11 AM |
Mauser Commercial vs military action- differences
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The recent post on the 1936 Rigby and discussion whether it is a military or commercial action has my interest piqued. What are the differences between these actions. Barring square bridges and rare configurations, if you set a pristine Oberndorf military standard length next to the same configuration commercial without a teardrop bolt knob and with a bullet release trigger guard, how would you know which is which?
| Hunter4752001 |
| (.300 member) |
| 23/05/22 07:21 PM |
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Re: Mauser Commercial vs military action- differences
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I'm not even remotely a Mauser expert and I'll be interested to hear from those on the forum with actual knowledge. However, for what little its worth, I've read that Mauser stamped a lowercase "m" on the bottom of the receiver behind the recoil lug.
I've also heard opinions that the commercial actions didn't have the thumb cut out in the receiver wall or the stripper clip guide. However I don't believe this to be correct as I have seen Mauser advertising from the time in which not only do the actions have the thumb cut out, but also use the stripper clip feature as a desirable feature for the hunting rifle.
CptCurl
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| (.450 member) |
| 23/05/22 08:47 PM |
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Re: Mauser Commercial vs military action- differences
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Plenty of commercial Mauser rifles had the thumb cutout. Here is my Type M:
Curly
| Marrakai |
| (.416 member) |
| 23/05/22 09:53 PM |
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Re: Mauser Commercial vs military action- differences
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prarie ghost & Hunter4752001:
A good place to start is with Jon Speed's comprehensive article on the Commercial Oberndorf Mauser variations, right here on NE.com in the Nickudu Files.
Read it HERE
In the first paragraph of that article:
"Commercial Mauser actions were made on the same machinery used for military production. Rough components then went to the Sporting Rifle department for final machining and modifications which required special tools and fixtures. Tolerances were kept tighter than for military actions, and greater care was taken in fine-tuning and finishing."
Then there was the inscription on the left side of the action "Waffenfabrik Mauser Oberndorf A/N" before ~1922, and "Mauser Werke, Oberndorf A/N" after 1922. Military actions were various, including "Gew.98", "Mod 98", etc.
| prairie_ghost |
| (.300 member) |
| 23/05/22 11:27 PM |
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Re: Mauser Commercial vs military action- differences
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Thank you. Anybody care to elaborate on what tolerances and fine tuning entailed? Only considering actions marked Oberndorf A/N, not the various military marked actions.
| TexasJohn |
| (.300 member) |
| 24/05/22 01:33 AM |
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Re: Mauser Commercial vs military action- differences
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Some military actions have tighter tolerances than others so it seems....... This 1935 Mauser action made for Chile (Police Contract) is as tight as my B Model Commercial. Even has the side markings similar:
| prairie_ghost |
| (.300 member) |
| 24/05/22 09:51 AM |
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Re: Mauser Commercial vs military action- differences
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Yes, I have 2 of those myself, my main hunting rifles. These actions are great examples of what I am asking about. Well fit and finished but without the military cartouche, would you know at a glance? And how would you know.
| Wedgetail |
| (.275 member) |
| 12/06/22 11:36 AM |
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Re: Mauser Commercial vs military action- differences
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That’s a beauty TexasJohn. Good thread topic - I wish was more info than just tighter tolerances and greater fine tuning. These are pretty hard to quantify nowadays, and personally I doubt I could tell the difference.
Here are my two Portuguese 1937s. I bought them bare. One was badly pitted so I cleaned it up (it’s now clean above the timber line) and in the process commercialised the markings. The 1937 gives a nod to its origins. The bolt is a miscellaneous Brno bolt which is a good fit (it’s stained not pitted). The other was less pitted and I’m not sure what I’m doing with it yet - still not bolt. I will be keeping the crest.
| Rothhammer1 |
| (.400 member) |
| 12/06/22 03:47 PM |
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Re: Mauser Commercial vs military action- differences
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Quote:
I have seen Mauser advertising from the time in which not only do the actions have the thumb cut out, but also use the stripper clip feature as a desirable feature for the hunting rifle.
Stoeger, 1939:
Clip loading ('stripper') in descripotion -
'Thumb cut' in image -
| mckinney |
| (.400 member) |
| 14/06/22 08:16 AM |
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Re: Mauser Commercial vs military action- differences
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How about so called Mexican Mauser actions. I have a G&H short rifle (21” bbl) in .308. The serial number suggests 1949-50 manufacture but that is before the cartridge was introduced. The caliber marking is “.308 Winchester” as though to make sure to spell out the complete name of the cartridge.
Paul Chapman says it is a Mexican Mauser action but I understand there were a couple of variations. The action has a smooth and positive feel about it.
Are these actions well thought of?
| Huvius |
| (.416 member) |
| 15/06/22 02:18 AM |
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Re: Mauser Commercial vs military action- differences
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I had a 1910 Mexican Mauser that was as well finished as any Oberndorf sporter I’ve had.
This version was made by DWM and had the same DWM stamping on the wall as the 1909 Argentine actions.
The Mexican being a small ring of course with a ‘98 bolt shroud, not the knurled cocking knob as the later ones have. Very nice action and is in demand I’d think. Only 7000 were made if my info is correct.
| metal |
| (.275 member) |
| 15/06/22 09:14 AM |
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Re: Mauser Commercial vs military action- differences
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I have a 1910 Original Oberndorf sporter in 7x57 and a 1903 Turk military.
The Turk bolt fits the sporter absolutely perfectly in every respect including headspace!!!
The 1903 Turk is one of the smoothest actions I’ve ever owned.
Phenomenal.
| prairie_ghost |
| (.300 member) |
| 16/06/22 04:52 AM |
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Re: Mauser Commercial vs military action- differences
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A little tidbit from Dave Talley years ago. He told me the military actions just came off the line as military contracts came in as I remember the conversation. I think what he was saying was some of the better finished military actions we see with Oberndorf markings could have been destined to commercial product just as easily. Where he got the information I don’t know.
| PatagonHunter |
| (.300 member) |
| 16/06/22 08:04 PM |
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Re: Mauser Commercial vs military action- differences
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Hello,
I think Mr Joel Dorleac has a lot to say about this...Mr Dorleac..?
| 458Win |
| (.333 member) |
| 02/07/22 05:03 AM |
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Re: Mauser Commercial vs military action- differences
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I learned something about my 1903 Rigby Mauser when my gun making friend D'Arcy Echols was visiting.
He couldn't help himself and had to tear the old rifle apart to "clean" it and was going over everything with my micrometer and discovered that Paul Mauser was well aware of accuracy factors as the rifle has Borden bumps !
| prairie_ghost |
| (.300 member) |
| 02/07/22 09:29 AM |
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Re: Mauser Commercial vs military action- differences
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Interesting. Did he elaborate on Mausers in general and is this part of the 'fine tuning and finishing'? Anybody ever measured a pristine Chiliean 1935?
| JDL |
| (.300 member) |
| 03/07/22 04:10 AM |
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Re: Mauser Commercial vs military action- differences
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What are Borden bumps? Haven't heard that expression before.
| Igorrock |
| (.400 member) |
| 04/07/22 03:33 AM |
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Re: Mauser Commercial vs military action- differences
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JDL here is one answer to yours question copied from one another forum:
"To explain let's back up to your average action like a Rem 700. With a round in the chamber and the bolt closed is the position we are concerned with. Like this the sear spring is pushiing up on the sear which is in contact with the angled surface of the cocking piece. This is forcing the back of the bolt up in the action. Can be as little as 0.001" or as much as 0.007" give or take a little. Reason is the Rem bolt is around 0.690" in diameter, while the raceway in the action is 0.705" roughly. This provides clearance for dirt, etc...
The Borden bumps are on the bolt behind the lugs and I think in front of the handle also. Using the same Rem #s for simplicity, they make the bolt 0.704" in diameter. That way in the locked up position, the sear/CP can't push the bolt out of square with the bore axis more than 0.0005" unlike the standard Remmy bolt being pushed out of square by several thousands. Clear as mud?"
| JDL |
| (.300 member) |
| 05/07/22 12:44 AM |
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Re: Mauser Commercial vs military action- differences
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Thanks I learned something new!