| mckinney |
| (.400 member) |
| 19/02/22 01:03 PM |
Lyman aperture sights on original Mauser sporters
|
Can anyone shed any light on whether any original Mauser sporters were supplied with Lyman peep sights from the factory?
Speed's book mentions that the Lyman 35 and 48 sights were "available" but does not explicitly state whether any were installed at the factory. My guess is that they were installed by retailers or as aftermarket additions only. He also mentions that the "British used" Parker Hale peep sights, but surely these must have also been installed by the retailer or final customer.
I have a very early Type B (1909) in 7x57 which has a Lyman 35. It looks so right that it seems original to the gun, but I suspect not.
Unfortunately I don't have Nick Stroebel's book handy so I don't even know the introduction date of Lyman sights for Mausers.
many thanks for any information
| jvw |
| (.300 member) |
| 19/02/22 07:36 PM |
|
Re: Lyman aperture sights on original Mauser sporters
|
They were an option from the factory, yes. I've seen a double flat-top Type A 10,75x68 with a Lyman as well as a 6,5x54 Kurz Type B. They are not often encountered by any means but they were made.
| Rothhammer1 |
| (.400 member) |
| 19/02/22 07:56 PM |
|
|
Re: Lyman aperture sights on original Mauser sporters
|
This may not be a direct answer to your query, but you may find these images to be of interest:
This peep sight, offered on new Mauser rifles advertised in the 1939 Stoeger, appears to be of the same (or very similar) type as used on Westley Richards rifles going back at least to 1912. They were also offered (via Stoeger) on new Mannlicher Schoenauer rifles and stutzen from the 1939 catalog on special order.
They are often encountered on the Take Down Model of MS (popular with the British trade). My 1922 proofed M1910 TD Model has one. Whether they were truly 'factory' installed on the MS or were installed by guild shops in the Steyr area as were scope mountings, I am unsure.
Westley Richards, 1912
Lyman 35, from 1939 Stoeger
Lyman 1A, 1939 Stoeger
Parker Hale Sportarget, 1939 Stoeger
| mckinney |
| (.400 member) |
| 20/02/22 02:47 AM |
|
Re: Lyman aperture sights on original Mauser sporters
|
Thanks guys for the very helpful responses.
I found my Nick Stroebel book and the information there seems to confirm that the Lyman 35 and 48 were available pre World War I.
Stroebel lists the patent date for the Lyman 35 as August 15, 1905 but he doesn't mention when production started. However, I think we can assume it started soon after the patent date based on the information he provides about the Lyman 48.
The Lyman 48 was patented on July 11, 1911 and was manufactured continuously from 1911 until the end of production in 1974.
I'm finding that these Lyman sights are a fascinating field for study. These are precision made instruments of very high quality.
I have purchased several rifles over the years that had the Lyman base present, but the slide missing. I have now chased down just about all of these missing slides. The rifles look much better with the complete sight. Of course the sights are much more useful as one gets older.
Anyway, very interesting stuff and some of these old sights are quite valuable. Don't ignore any listings you may see for these sights at reasonable prices.
| Rothhammer1 |
| (.400 member) |
| 20/02/22 08:12 AM |
|
|
|
Re: Lyman aperture sights on original Mauser sporters
|
Quote:
I'm finding that these Lyman sights are a fascinating field for study. These are precision made instruments of very high quality.
The Lyman 36, designed for the Mannlicher Schoenauer, had a pivot so the aperture could swing clear of the bolt as it was retracted through the MS' split bridge and then return to position as bolt is pushed forward.
The 36 mounts to the MS' bolt release:
| mckinney |
| (.400 member) |
| 21/02/22 12:17 AM |
|
Re: Lyman aperture sights on original Mauser sporters
|
The Lyman 35 mounts to the Mauser 98 bolt release as well. The 35 and 36 sights are unique and very cool.
That’s a beautiful original box and packing on the 36. I have an older 57 in the same box and packaging which came with a pre-64 model 70 I bought in Sweden years ago. I also have a 48R (for the Remington 30/30-S) in its original 1920’s cloth pouch, still covered in cosmoline. Lyman shipped sights to gunsmiths in these bags, with cosmoline, back in the day. That is the extent of my sight collection.
Somewhere out there is a box or shelf of these vintage sights from a long ago gunsmith or retailer.
| Rothhammer1 |
| (.400 member) |
| 21/02/22 02:24 PM |
|
|
|
Re: Lyman aperture sights on original Mauser sporters
|
Quote:
That’s a beautiful original box and packing on the 36.
Here's an image of the opened instruction sheet, swiped from an Ebay listing as was the image of sight and box:
Page 219 of 1939 Stoeger:
Page 236 of 1939 Stoeger:
CptCurl
|
| (.450 member) |
| 05/03/22 08:55 PM |
|
|
Re: Lyman aperture sights on original Mauser sporters
|
Here's my Type M, in real life.
It's great!
Curl
| DarylS |
| (.700 member) |
| 06/03/22 06:14 AM |
|
|
Re: Lyman aperture sights on original Mauser sporters
|
Yes indeed - certainly looks good.
| eagle27 |
| (.400 member) |
| 06/03/22 09:20 AM |
|
|
Re: Lyman aperture sights on original Mauser sporters
|
Quote:
Can anyone shed any light on whether any original Mauser sporters were supplied with Lyman peep sights from the factory?
Speed's book mentions that the Lyman 35 and 48 sights were "available" but does not explicitly state whether any were installed at the factory. My guess is that they were installed by retailers or as aftermarket additions only. He also mentions that the "British used" Parker Hale peep sights, but surely these must have also been installed by the retailer or final customer.
I have a very early Type B (1909) in 7x57 which has a Lyman 35. It looks so right that it seems original to the gun, but I suspect not.
Unfortunately I don't have Nick Stroebel's book handy so I don't even know the introduction date of Lyman sights for Mausers.
many thanks for any information
In the Mauser Sporter rifles section of Ludwig Olson's book on Mauser Rifles he shows the peep sight (see Rothhammer1's post) mounted in the stock behind the action. Olson indicates this was an extra cost option supplied from the Mauser factory. He also shows a picture of a Lyman No. 35 sight but his text indicates this is an option that 'others' fit to Mauser sporters.
So while Lyman sights were available there is nothing in Olson's book indicating they were actually fitted at the Mauser factory to their sporters, seemingly the peep sight being the only true Mauser option.
| mckinney |
| (.400 member) |
| 06/03/22 11:30 AM |
|
Re: Lyman aperture sights on original Mauser sporters
|
Eagle27
Thank you that’s very useful information and what I expected. So I suppose a true purist in search of Mauser sporting rifles as they left the factory would not be completely satisfied with a Lyman sight no matter who fitted it or how well?
I’m now wondering about scope sight and mounts. Would these have been fitted at the factory? I will see what I can find in the Speed book but I am inclined to think “yes” on this question, assuming the scope and mounts are German and period correct. If so a purist might object less to a scoped rifle than a Lyman sighted one.
I’m not a true purist myself. The only case where these questions matter to me is when I have a really nice example of something. Then I want to know - is it as it came from the factory?
| eagle27 |
| (.400 member) |
| 06/03/22 01:39 PM |
|
|
|
Re: Lyman aperture sights on original Mauser sporters
|
Yes, Olson's book does mention scope bases and mounts specifically made and fitted at the Mauser factory for their sporters.
Purists may think the way you have described.
| DORLEAC |
| (.333 member) |
| 07/03/22 06:13 AM |
|
|
Re: Lyman aperture sights on original Mauser sporters
|
Lyman Sight No.35 on Original Mauser action.
Note also the rare factory single stage trigger (modified for the new bottom metal trigger guard bow).
Rifle in the making.
Regards to all.
DORLEAC
www.dorleac-dorleac.com
| 458Win |
| (.333 member) |
| 29/04/22 05:48 PM |
|
Re: Lyman aperture sights on original Mauser sporters
|
I own a pristine 1930's vintage Type B with up graded wood, half round / octagon barrel and what appears to be a factory fitted Lyman 35 sight. The metal is carefully fitted so that the stock Wood is not cut away.
| justcurious |
| (.333 member) |
| 30/04/22 04:43 AM |
|
Re: Lyman aperture sights on original Mauser sporters
|
.30-06 , Half octogon to round barrel
| 93x64mm |
| (.416 member) |
| 30/04/22 07:00 AM |
|
Re: Lyman aperture sights on original Mauser sporters
|
Lovely rifle there Justcurious!
Has beautiful lines, marvellously done work!
| DarylS |
| (.700 member) |
| 30/04/22 07:40 AM |
|
|
|
Re: Lyman aperture sights on original Mauser sporters
|
Really nice polish on that action, Joel.
| Louis |
| (.375 member) |
| 30/04/22 09:25 PM |
|
Re: Lyman aperture sights on original Mauser sporters
|
Beautiful rifle, Just Curious.
Louis
| DarylS |
| (.700 member) |
| 01/05/22 02:42 AM |
|
|
|
Re: Lyman aperture sights on original Mauser sporters
|
Yes, agreed - pretty special with the rib and all.