| rpeck |
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| 05/04/21 03:09 AM |
Johann Peterlongo, Innsbruck Austria, Mauser 98 Stutzen
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Any thoughts on this rifle?
Johann Peterlongo, Innsbruck Austria, 20 inch octagon to round barrel with integral top rib full-length stock, engraving, DST, open 100, 200 and 300 yards sights, quick detach see through scope mount with a Karl Kahles no. 1 reticle 4 Power Scope, clear optics, Caliber 280 Remington (re-chambered? I don't know the rifle's history.)
| DarylS |
| (.700 member) |
| 05/04/21 03:15 AM |
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Re: Johann Peterlongo, Innsbruck Austria, Mauser 98 Stutzen
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Pretty cool rifle, with a dinged muzzle - needs some crown work.
Appears quite "early". I gt that impression from the barrel key with escutcheon plates holding on the forend along with the mounts and scope.
I suspect the forearm sling swivel likely goes through a "key" under the barrel, not just through the wood.
Is there a screw under the forend cap, like on the Ruger International models?
| tinker |
| (.416 member) |
| 05/04/21 03:29 AM |
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Re: Johann Peterlongo, Innsbruck Austria, Mauser 98 Stutzen
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Great looking rifle
| rpeck |
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| 05/04/21 04:50 AM |
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Re: Johann Peterlongo, Innsbruck Austria, Mauser 98 Stutzen
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Quote:
Is there a screw under the forend cap, like on the Ruger International models?
No idea...I do not have the rifle here...We are looking at the same photos.
| DarylS |
| (.700 member) |
| 05/04/21 05:40 AM |
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Re: Johann Peterlongo, Innsbruck Austria, Mauser 98 Stutzen
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Can't quite tell, there is something there when I enlarge the photo.
The little round protrusion in the middle of the forend cap would suggest no screw, unless it is in the projection to the rear, of the forend cap.
| Rule303 |
| (.416 member) |
| 05/04/21 06:02 AM |
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Re: Johann Peterlongo, Innsbruck Austria, Mauser 98 Stutzen
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Be interesting to find out more detail. This could be a fairly unique/unusual rifle to have with a little work.
| rpeck |
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| 05/04/21 11:42 PM |
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Re: Johann Peterlongo, Innsbruck Austria, Mauser 98 Stutzen
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This rifle is in a Canadian on-line gun auction (https://www.icollector.com/Johann-Peterlongo-Innisbruck-Austria-Mauser-98-bolt-action-carbine-20-inch-octagon-to-round-barre_i40622079).
Anyone have a guess at its value? Johann Peterlongo of Innsbruck is a very well known maker. But I suppose the auction will decide the real value. Right now its up to $1050.(Canadian)...plus the 15% bidders premium, 4%-15% taxes (depending on which province you live in), shipping, etc...which will easily add about another third to the hammer price...so its actually up to approx. $1400.(Can), which is approx. $1100.(US)...on-line bidding still has two weeks to go, so it could go a lot higher.
I really do wonder about the .280 Rem calibre...I assume its a rechambering job. It couldn't be original, since that caliber wasn't introduced until 1957 and the rifle is obviously much older than that. And like with most rechambering jobs, you have to wonder who did it, and how well it was done...none of which you can learn from indifferent auction photos. That chambering may hold the price down to a reasonable level though.
| DarylS |
| (.700 member) |
| 06/04/21 12:42 AM |
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Re: Johann Peterlongo, Innsbruck Austria, Mauser 98 Stutzen
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I'm assuming it was a 7x57 originally. The .280 chambering hurts/ruins it's collector's value - maybe?
As a unique hunting rifle, I think it is probably worth the current price.
| rpeck |
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| 06/04/21 04:55 AM |
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Re: Johann Peterlongo, Innsbruck Austria, Mauser 98 Stutzen
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With its old German fine steel barrel I assume it could be rebored by someone like Ron Smith (Central Alberta. Still in business?) to a larger and more suitably "European" caliber...maybe 9.3x62...although the .280 chamber may already be too long for that. Of course, who knows the bore condition. This auction doesn't even make an estimate of that.
| Louis |
| (.375 member) |
| 06/04/21 06:52 AM |
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Re: Johann Peterlongo, Innsbruck Austria, Mauser 98 Stutzen
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According to previous posts dealing with Peterlongo we learnt, I guess from Kuduae, that Peterlongo (son of the founder) stopped trading in 1939 when he sold the company to Mahrholdt and that Peterlongo was selling under their name in Austria a lot of rifles originating from Suhl in Germany.
This rifle was therefore sold/retailed by Peterlongo in 1939 to the latest and – because of the Viennese scope mounts, my personal feeling is that she is much older.
With regards to her caliber - .280 Remington (1957), I assume that the rifle was originally in 7x57 (as already mentioned by Daryl) or in 7x64 (1917). Both .280 and 7x64 are pretty similar in terms of bullet caliber and case dimensions and, according to unverified online information 7x64 can be fired without risk in rifles chambered for .280 but not the contrary as the .280 case is slightly longer than the 7x64 one.
By being re-chambered to .280 this rifle has probably lost any immediate collector's value but may still be a good hunting rifle or be acquired at adequate low price for being restored to her former glory and re-barelled into a classic European hunting caliber such as 7x57 or 7x64. Re-boring or re-chambering might prove difficult as apart from the 7x66 SE Vom Hofe and the 8x68S (both probably unsuitable to the rifle), no period European calibers have cases longer than the .280, even the 9,3x64 is shorter.
Louis
| ColoradoMatt1 |
| (.300 member) |
| 12/04/21 08:07 AM |
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Re: Johann Peterlongo, Innsbruck Austria, Mauser 98 Stutzen
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If the barrel is thick enough, it could be rebored/chambered to 9.3x62. That round and bore is large enough to clean up just fine.
| DarylS |
| (.700 member) |
| 12/04/21 10:27 AM |
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Re: Johann Peterlongo, Innsbruck Austria, Mauser 98 Stutzen
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Hadn't though to of the 7x64, Louis - quite right. It could have been that original chambering, however if so, why re-chamber?
I'm still thinking it was 7x57 and should have stay that way. OH well.
| tinker |
| (.416 member) |
| 12/04/21 10:53 AM |
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Re: Johann Peterlongo, Innsbruck Austria, Mauser 98 Stutzen
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If the bore is good, I'd run it as is with 280 brass (if indeed it's been cut to 280)
I wonder if it's not been chambered in 280, but the auction description is based on 280 brass found with the rifle that's been formed to 7x64 to work with the original chamber.
I have a nice old 7x64 here that was left with a bunch of 280 brass that had been formed as such.
What are the hurdles to getting a rifle from Canada imported into the US..?
| lancaster |
| (.470 member) |
| 14/04/21 01:47 PM |
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Re: Johann Peterlongo, Innsbruck Austria, Mauser 98 Stutzen
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if rechamber from 7x57 its the 280
you can't rechamber 7x57 to 7x64. look at the shoulder diameter, with 7x64 you get a step in the 7x57 chamber. the 280 is having a bigger shoulder diameter and so I assume it cut the 7x57 chamber completly away.
if the rifle works safely with 7x64 brass I would say its an oversized 7x64 chamber and use it this way.
| 9.3x57 |
| (.450 member) |
| 14/04/21 11:00 PM |
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Re: Johann Peterlongo, Innsbruck Austria, Mauser 98 Stutzen
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Neat gun.
Are you sure it's a .280?
What I mean is I wonder if somebody checked the chamber and found it was just about like a .280, was unaware of the 7x64 and described it as a .280.
I wonder if it is actually a 7x64?
Some years ago there was a Ruger M77MKII in 7x64 that sat on Gunbroker, and sat, and sat... In fact, IIRC for over a year or maybe even two. The guy wouldn't budge in price but there were many evenings I almost "pulled the trigger" on that one. It was the spittin image of one of my 6.5x55's I had Ruger put factory sights on. Never bought it tho and it eventually disappeared.
Anyway, if the thing was actually 7x64 might be a winner.
A twist rate check might help, too, as most .280s are slower pitched than the 7x57/7x64.
| tinker |
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| 14/04/21 11:27 PM |
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Re: Johann Peterlongo, Innsbruck Austria, Mauser 98 Stutzen
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Quote:
A twist rate check might help, too, as most .280s are slower pitched than the 7x57/7x64.
280 wasn't developed/named until the late 50's
The dude who bored and rifled that barrel was dead by the time the 280 twist rate was decided.
| 9.3x57 |
| (.450 member) |
| 14/04/21 11:49 PM |
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Re: Johann Peterlongo, Innsbruck Austria, Mauser 98 Stutzen
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Quote:Quote:
A twist rate check might help, too, as most .280s are slower pitched than the 7x57/7x64.
280 wasn't developed/named until the late 50's
The dude who bored and rifled that barrel was dead by the time the 280 twist rate was decided.
Yeah, that's a good point. I was thinking about that Ruger when I typed that and was thinking whole-barrel.
You are right, a simple rechamber would not have affected the bore at all whatever 7mm it may have been.
Good point!
| rpeck |
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| 19/04/21 08:33 AM |
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Re: Johann Peterlongo, Innsbruck Austria, Mauser 98 Stutzen
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Quote:
I'm assuming it was a 7x57 originally. The .280 chambering hurts/ruins it's collector's value - maybe?
As a unique hunting rifle, I think it is probably worth the current price.
It sold for 1,897.50 (Can.) plus taxes and likely also plus shipping.
| DarylS |
| (.700 member) |
| 19/04/21 09:25 AM |
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Re: Johann Peterlongo, Innsbruck Austria, Mauser 98 Stutzen
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Quote:
if rechamber from 7x57 its the 280
you can't rechamber 7x57 to 7x64. look at the shoulder diameter, with 7x64 you get a step in the 7x57 chamber. the 280 is having a bigger shoulder diameter and so I assume it cut the 7x57 chamber completly away.
if the rifle works safely with 7x64 brass I would say its an oversized 7x64 chamber and use it this way.
That would depend on the diameter of the 7x64, at the 43,25mm location.
My bet is that it is over 10,92mm simply due to being tapered and 10,72mm at 51.00mm.
If the taper of the 7x64 is the same as a .30/06 case, then is is a few thousandths larger for the 7x64.
Of course, if a .280 Rem chambers, then that is what it is.
| lancaster |
| (.470 member) |
| 20/04/21 01:51 PM |
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Re: Johann Peterlongo, Innsbruck Austria, Mauser 98 Stutzen
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well, in a CIP country with a proof house its not possible. a CIP conform 7x57 chamber reamed out with a 7x64 CIP conform reamer will give a step and the proof house will find it.
there is a special cartridge, the 7x67SR Luyven http://old.municion.org/7mm/7x67Luyven.htm
to do such a change only this cartridge is recommanded here