| casper50 |
| (.400 member) |
| 09/12/19 03:22 AM |
Mauser with no caliber marks.
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Picked up my newest Mauser rifle. Made a chamber cast but haven't found a match to a cartridge yet. For some reason there's no caliber marks on it.
| DarylS |
| (.700 member) |
| 09/12/19 04:04 AM |
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Re: Mauser with no caliber marks.
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Nice find.
What's the calibre?
| casper50 |
| (.400 member) |
| 09/12/19 04:33 AM |
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Re: Mauser with no caliber marks.
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That's what I'm trying to find out. 8mm but the chamber cast doesn't match the 8x57
| DarylS |
| (.700 member) |
| 09/12/19 06:36 AM |
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Re: Mauser with no caliber marks.
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Is it longer, shorter, fatter, smaller in dia.?
8mm Kurtz, for instance.
Not a lot of different 8mm ctgs. for Mauser rifles, seems to me.
Austro-Hungarian - a rimmed ctg.
Is the bolt face for a standard .469/.470" rim?
| casper50 |
| (.400 member) |
| 09/12/19 06:49 AM |
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Re: Mauser with no caliber marks.
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A 7x57mm cartridge fits very loosely on the bolt face. Won't stay on by itself.
just ahead of the rim it's .474
length 2.2
at the beginning of the shoulder .438
.360 at the neck
.329 bullet
| 93x64mm |
| (.416 member) |
| 09/12/19 06:57 AM |
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Re: Mauser with no caliber marks.
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Unusual for sure!
I'd post the dimensions when you cast the chamber, & small part of the rifling - our European cousins will nut it out for you if it is an odd calibre!
| casper50 |
| (.400 member) |
| 09/12/19 07:05 AM |
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Re: Mauser with no caliber marks.
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most of the dimensions are above.
| Ash |
| (.400 member) |
| 09/12/19 07:51 AM |
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Re: Mauser with no caliber marks.
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Picture of the cast may help also
| 4seventy |
| (Sponsor) |
| 09/12/19 08:09 AM |
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Re: Mauser with no caliber marks.
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Your chamber dimensions for base, shoulder, and length are, .474" .438" and 2.2".
8x57 case dimensions are .469", .434" and 2.24" which sounds about right to me.
Very nice rifle by the way.
| casper50 |
| (.400 member) |
| 09/12/19 08:13 AM |
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Re: Mauser with no caliber marks.
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last photo is next to a 7x57mm
| DarylS |
| (.700 member) |
| 09/12/19 10:08 AM |
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Re: Mauser with no caliber marks.
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Eye opener. I can now understand your consternation.
| 3DogMike |
| (.400 member) |
| 09/12/19 12:37 PM |
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Re: Mauser with no caliber marks.
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8 x 60 ???
Pretty common alteration after the war.....that way the sporting rifles were not a “military calibre”....?
- Mike
| tinker |
| (.416 member) |
| 09/12/19 02:20 PM |
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Re: Mauser with no caliber marks.
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Without looking at the specifics, my first thought was to suggest a look at the 8x60 cartridge - which is a great cartridge.
| JORGE01 |
| (.224 member) |
| 09/12/19 02:55 PM |
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Re: Mauser with no caliber marks.
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I find the dimension very curious, they don’t fit any cartage exactly but here are two (2) other possibilities besides 8x60.
a) 8x56 mannlicher schoenauer see link below:
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=...;vt=0&eim=1,2,6
b) .318 Westley Richards see link below:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.318_Westley_Richards
I suggest you re measure the casting very carefully, there may be some errors in the measurements.
Hope this helps.
| 4seventy |
| (Sponsor) |
| 09/12/19 03:02 PM |
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Re: Mauser with no caliber marks.
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Quote:
last photo is next to a 7x57mm
There's not much point comparing 8x57 to 7x57.
The 8x57 is NOT a necked up 7x57.
When measured from the base to the start of the shoulder, the 7x57 has a shorter measurement, as your photo shows.
Going by the chamber cast and the ruler photo, it still appears to be an 8x57 IMO.
| lancaster |
| (.470 member) |
| 09/12/19 04:01 PM |
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Re: Mauser with no caliber marks.
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such a Gewehrfabrik Erfurt rifle should be in 8x57IS , sometimes later changed into 8x60S.
| Rothhammer1 |
| (.400 member) |
| 09/12/19 04:21 PM |
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Re: Mauser with no caliber marks.
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The cast shows that case to be shorter than an 8X60. The length of 2.2" = 55.88mm.
From the 1939 Stoeger catalog:
Though yours appears to be well 'sporterized', perhaps someone improvised when cleaning up the chamber?
Full text:
| Rothhammer1 |
| (.400 member) |
| 09/12/19 04:48 PM |
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Re: Mauser with no caliber marks.
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This may be of interest: NE 102218
Detail:
This may be the closest (though not a direct match) to your chamber cast:
| 93x64mm |
| (.416 member) |
| 09/12/19 06:13 PM |
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Re: Mauser with no caliber marks.
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If I'm reading this info correctly, & I hope I most certainly am!
I'd first try a 8x57JS headspace gauge, if that works with the go gauge & provided that the head diameter isn't too large (try a line of thin sticky tape around a case & see if that goes in easily or not), if it doesn't then then you should be able to fire them.
I guess if it falls in then you may need your chamber reamed with the 8x60mm, or take a turn or two off the barrel & rechamber to 8x57JS?
Best done with the gunsmith this one.
| casper50 |
| (.400 member) |
| 10/12/19 05:42 PM |
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Re: Mauser with no caliber marks.
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Anyone have any idea why it wouldn't be caliber marked? I also don't see the correct proofmarks anywhere.
| kuduae |
| (.400 member) |
| 10/12/19 10:27 PM |
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Re: Mauser with no caliber marks.
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This rifle was made in 1919 by the former, until November 1918, Royal (Prussian) Rifle Factory Erfurt, renamed Reichswerke Erfurt, RwE. The factory tried to convert to civilian production after the armistice. As Germany was in revolutioary turmoil then, the proofhouse system was out of function. So they used their own established military acceptance personnel for proofing these rifles. In lieu of a civilian proofmark they continued to use the Prussian military eagle mark. Under the conditions of the Versailles "peace treaty", the factory was closed down and dismantled in 1920.
As Lancaster wrote, all those rare "RwE" Mausers were in 8x57 IS originally, though some were rechambered to 8x60S or rebarreled later. Making any 8x57 ammo was prohibited by the Versailles treaty too. As this rifle retains it's original 8 mm barrel, it is either in 8x57 IS or 8x60 S. Forget any other exotic chamberings for cartridges unknown or unavailable in Germany then. When measuring case length from a chamber cast remember: On a M98 Mauser barrel, the rim and extreactor groove of the case protude from the breech end. So you have to add about 3 mm to the distance from the step at the rear of your cast and the case mouth to get the real case length.
| 4seventy |
| (Sponsor) |
| 11/12/19 07:10 AM |
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Re: Mauser with no caliber marks.
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Quote:
When measuring case length from a chamber cast remember: On a M98 Mauser barrel, the rim and extreactor groove of the case protude from the breech end. So you have to add about 3 mm to the distance from the step at the rear of your cast and the case mouth to get the real case length.
Ah yes, very good point kuduae.
| Rothhammer1 |
| (.400 member) |
| 11/12/19 08:36 AM |
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Re: Mauser with no caliber marks.
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Quote:
A 7x57mm cartridge fits very loosely on the bolt face. Won't stay on by itself.
just ahead of the rim it's .474
length 2.2
at the beginning of the shoulder .438
.360 at the neck
.329 bullet
From Kuduae's post:
As Lancaster wrote, all those rare "RwE" Mausers were in 8x57 IS originally, though some were rechambered to 8x60S or rebarreled later. Making any 8x57 ammo was prohibited by the Versailles treaty too. As this rifle retains it's original 8 mm barrel, it is either in 8x57 IS or 8x60 S. Forget any other exotic chamberings for cartridges unknown or unavailable in Germany then...
On a M98 Mauser barrel, the rim and extreactor groove of the case protude from the breech end. So you have to add about 3 mm to the distance from the step at the rear of your cast and the case mouth to get the real case length.
Your case length measurement (from cast) was 2.2" (55.88mm). Adding 3mm = 58.88mm.
7.92X57 (8X57) Mauser:
8X60S Mauser:
| Vladymere |
| (.300 member) |
| 14/12/19 10:50 AM |
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Re: Mauser with no caliber marks.
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Have you slugged the bore? Do you know for sure that it is an 8 mm bullet? Does not the 855 on the barrel by the witness mark and on the bottom of the receiver indicate the groove diameter or land diameter of the barrel?
Vlad
| casper50 |
| (.400 member) |
| 06/01/20 07:24 AM |
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Re: Mauser with no caliber marks.
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I happen to have a MS model 1908 and ammo so I tried to chamber a fired case. It went right in. So I loaded it up with 15 grains of 4198 and dacron with wax to seal the case. Everything measures the same as other cases fired in the MS. Only part that bothers me is the primer backed out about halfway. Any and all advice welcome. I can always ignore it. lol
| casper50 |
| (.400 member) |
| 06/01/20 08:34 AM |
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Re: Mauser with no caliber marks.
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is this bolt for rimmed or rimless?
| casper50 |
| (.400 member) |
| 06/01/20 08:37 AM |
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Re: Mauser with no caliber marks.
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depth from bolt face to part of extractor that would catch the case is .07"
| xausa |
| (.400 member) |
| 06/01/20 08:51 PM |
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Re: Mauser with no caliber marks.
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In fireforming a case with a light load in a chamber with unknown headspace, the case should be lubricated, allowing the pressure generated by the ignition to force the case head firmly back against the bolt face. You won't get a reliable measurement otherwise, since the firing pin fall will force the entire cartridge all the way forward and the adherence of the dry case to the chamber walls coupled with the low pressure will keep it from being forced back, resulting in a protruding primer and an inaccurate headspace reading.
| DarylS |
| (.700 member) |
| 07/01/20 04:00 AM |
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Re: Mauser with no caliber marks.
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That bolt face & extractor appears to be standard for .469" or .470" rim.
| Rothhammer1 |
| (.400 member) |
| 07/01/20 08:28 AM |
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Re: Mauser with no caliber marks.
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Quote:
the firing pin fall will force the entire cartridge all the way forward and the adherence of the dry case to the chamber walls coupled with the low pressure will keep it from being forced back, resulting in a protruding primer and an inaccurate headspace reading.
On a controlled feed bolt? Is this possible?
Controlled Feed
| justcurious |
| (.333 member) |
| 07/01/20 09:27 PM |
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Re: Mauser with no caliber marks.
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Headspace aside it is possible , but only 0,3 mm maximum depending on the thickness of the cartridge rim.
There is that little play of the extractor in the slot on the bolt.
| DarylS |
| (.700 member) |
| 08/01/20 05:14 AM |
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Re: Mauser with no caliber marks.
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The protruding primers absolutely happens with controlled round feed rifles, with ctgs producing less than about 45,000psi.
Ctgs. over that pressure level then usually stretch at the web and re-seat the primer, flattening it excessively in the process. Many see the excessive headspace result as being high pressure, when it is not.
Thus the excessive headspace caused what will become case head separations along the way & usually with the next firing, if the shoulder is shoved back during reloading that case/s.
Case head separations are caused by firing unaltered ctgs. in rifles with excessive headspace, not by excessive pressure.