| Scott_H |
| (.224 member) |
| 17/07/14 01:24 PM |
Inheritance
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I figure the best introduction is probably to describe what brought me here.
I recently found out that I'm inheriting a Rigby 350. At this point I haven't seen it and don't know much about it other than it's not a double (which if what I've read is correct makes it a Mauser action rifle), and isn't a 400/350 Nitro. That's about the end of what I know about it until I pick it up in a few weeks.
Most of what I'm doing right now is killing time and trying to learn a few things since this is unlike any of my other firearms. To that end I figured I'd ask a few preliminary questions to get things rolling.
First off, I was surprised at the apparent potential value of this rifle. (I couldn't find anything with the Rigby name attached to it listed for under about $8000 when I looked, but then again I didn't do a lot of searching). I'm going to assume the value is towards the low end of the spectrum, but still, are these guns that people still shoot and hunt with? Or should I just plan to display it?
Second, I've already noticed that brass and loaded ammo seems pretty scarce. Are there any good sources for quality brass or ammo out there (Hopefully reasonably priced)? Barring that, is there an easily available case that can be converted? It's ok if it takes lathe work since I'm also a budding machinist.
Finally, can anybody point me to some good general reading or resources for these rifles? I'm just looking for a way to get my feet wet at this point.
Thanks all
| Claydog |
| (.375 member) |
| 17/07/14 01:42 PM |
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Re: Inheritance
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Scott.
Congratulations. Shoot it as often as you can. That is what they were made for. Go through the mauser threads on this site and you should find some good information.
| Waidmannsheil |
| (.400 member) |
| 17/07/14 09:23 PM |
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You are a lucky man. The only thing I inherited from grandfather was an old type writer and a gazillion newspaper clippings (He was a newspaper and magazine editor. Don't display that rifle, hunt with it, that is what it was made for, you will have a ball. Very envious.
Waidmannsheil.
| Squarebridge |
| (.300 member) |
| 17/07/14 10:01 PM |
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Many good threads here on the 350 Rigby in its various forms and guises. Enjoy and treasure your inheritance. Please post detailed photos when you take delivery!
| Huvius |
| (.416 member) |
| 17/07/14 10:42 PM |
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Scott, welcome to NitroExpress!
You are in the right place to learn about your new rifle.
I recently had a 350 Rigby Magnum, which sounds to be the chambering yours will be in also. I have brass and dies for it but had started talking to another member here about a sale. That was months ago and I am not sure he still needs them. Will try to figure that out and get back to you on it.
Otherwise, please get pictures up when you receive it and the knowledgable gents here will tell you all you need to know.
| Scott_H |
| (.224 member) |
| 18/07/14 08:20 AM |
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Re: Inheritance
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Huvius, as long as it turns out that this rifle is the .350 magnum (which is what I'm hoping), I'll definitely be interested in your brass and dies if the other member doesn't follow through.
I should (should being the operative word) have the rifle in hand by mid August, and I'll be sure to post photos. I'm assuming it isn't anything special from a cosmetic standpoint, but you never know. I expect that it's been locked away for the last 3-4 decades which could be good, or exceptionally bad news.
| pjaln |
| (.375 member) |
| 18/07/14 08:34 AM |
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rigbys,rigbys,rigbys,,..you landed in the right place scott.....paul
| Scott_H |
| (.224 member) |
| 19/07/14 05:28 AM |
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Re: Inheritance
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Very nice... I'm assuming (looking at the finish on the receivers and barrels) that those rifles haven't received any cosmetic restoration... I've always had an affinity to unrestored antiques.
You know, it's funny, but more than anything I'm hoping that my uncle has an original carrying case like the one in your photo. Even if the rifle looks awful having a matching case would make my week.
| Scott_H |
| (.224 member) |
| 19/07/14 05:49 AM |
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Re: Inheritance
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I forgot that I actually had some info on this rifle from about 4 years ago when my uncle asked me to dig up some load data on it (he doesn't load, but was looking for data to give to someone to load for him).
"Rigby Single Square Bridge Mauser Sporter 350 Magnum (I think MFG in the early 1900s). #85078 on the barrel and chamber. #5078 on the bolt action lever . #78 on the safety lever. # 4905 on the trigger guard and chamber. Inscribed on the barrel is: John Rigby & Co. 4 . 3. Sackville. SE London. W."
Is there any kind of date or S/N decoder available for these rifles? It would be interesting to find out when it was made.
| Squarebridge |
| (.300 member) |
| 19/07/14 09:08 AM |
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Well, Rigby moved to 43 Sackville in 1912. Guns international had a 400/350 dated 1908 with a serial in the 22xxx range. Speed's book lists serials in your range in the 1922-23 range? (If I read the info correctly, page 225.). But i think the numbering can be chaotic. Others here will know more precisely.
If I was about to inherit a Rigby 350, I would drive to see it and photograph it if I lived on the moon. Surely someone can take some cell phone pictures of it In this day and age.
| Scott_H |
| (.224 member) |
| 19/07/14 04:21 PM |
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I'm sure someone could, but waiting is kind of fun too
Call me strange if you wish. Rushing won't change anything. Why spoil all that great anticipation? (in actuality, a few years ago when we first talked about it, my uncle had trouble figuring out how to send photos. No need to put him through the frustration)
Thanks for the date info by the way.
| Scott_H |
| (.224 member) |
| 23/07/14 12:47 PM |
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Well, I didn't have to wait until Mid August after all.... Sorry for the lousy photos. Between bad light in my dining room and a crappy cell phone camera, I just couldn't get a shot to come out. I'll have to wait until the light is better to take some high quality photos.
Overall it looks pretty good. The stock has a few dings and dents, but no visible cracks or splits. The butt pad has been replaced, but everything else appears to be original.
Needless to say I'm a pretty happy camper.
| rgg_7 |
| (.275 member) |
| 23/07/14 01:16 PM |
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Re: Inheritance
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Nice rifle. Does this have the slant box magazine? Stepped receiver? I'm assuming it's engraved "350 Rigby". Ron
| Huvius |
| (.416 member) |
| 23/07/14 02:13 PM |
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Quote:
Nice rifle. Does this have the slant box magazine? Stepped receiver? I'm assuming it's engraved "350 Rigby". Ron
Looks just like mine did but you have the Rigby cocking piece sight which is really nice to have on a 350.
It is a later action than the step ring actions with the slant magazine so is for the 350 Rimless Magnum.
Congratulations on a fine rifle!
| pjaln |
| (.375 member) |
| 23/07/14 02:19 PM |
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it looks real nice ,,...paul
| Scott_H |
| (.224 member) |
| 23/07/14 02:44 PM |
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Re: Inheritance
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Thanks Guys. rgg_7, the engraving says "Rigby 350 Magnum" matching what Hivus said. It came with a box of ammo as well which was nice.
Honestly, I'm too green on my Mauser lore to answer any of the questions about stepped receivers or slant box magazines. I've seen a few references here or there on this site, but that's about it. This is by far the oldest rifle that I own and I'm still wrapping my head around all of its intricacies and trying to figure out some of the do's and dont's for vintage rifles (IE, whether to do more than just clean the stock, or try to track down an OE butt plate for it).
I was a little thrown by the cocking piece sight. Definitely not an item that I've ever seen before. Was it designed to use in addition to the sight leaves, or in place of them? Also, judging by the two unoccupied grooves on the rear side of it, I'm kind of wondering if it isn't incomplete. Is there a good detailed photo of one somewhere that I could compare to?
Thanks again.
| tinker |
| (.416 member) |
| 23/07/14 03:29 PM |
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There is only one original buttplate - good luck finding it.
The stock may have been cut.
I'd leave it as found.
I wouldn't even clean the stock.
I would completely clean the bore, strip and clean the bolt, have the metal out of the wood and clean and oil the trigger.
Then I'd shoot it.
Detailed photos of all the sights would help.
NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 23/07/14 04:51 PM |
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Excellent.
| heers68 |
| (.300 member) |
| 24/07/14 12:40 AM |
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NICE! Your ready for safari!!
| mckinney |
| (.400 member) |
| 24/07/14 02:38 AM |
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Nice rifle and I agree with Tinker about leaving it as is. I'd clean it (gently), preserve it, and shoot it. I'd resist any temptation to restore the case too. Looks like a rifle with some history and an inheritance to boot. (This from a person who has gone both ways on restoring old rifles.)
If you must restore it, send it to someone like Dorleac.
| Scott_H |
| (.224 member) |
| 24/07/14 06:43 AM |
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Re: Inheritance
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Thanks guys. I wouldn't undertake a restoration lightly, and definitely not a half-assed DIY restoration (and in all likelihood I'd never pay for a professional restoration unless I wanted to maximize the value because I thought I was going to eventually part with the rifle, which isn't in the cards). But the rifle does need a good cleaning. There's quite a bit of congealed/varnished oil in the nooks and crannies that needs to be dealt with at the very least. And the stock has some very old adhesive where the original butt pad was held in place by a piece of packing tape at some point in the past. That's pretty much bonded to whatever finish the stock has on it.
I'm assuming the original finish on the stock would have just been stain/oil with no varnish or sealer, correct? What do you all use to care for the stocks on your rifles. On my newer guns that have modern finishes, I usually just wipe them down with the same oilcloth that I use to wipe the rest of the rifle when I clean/service it... In the interest of preservation, I'm wondering if that would be an appropriate practice with this rifle.
| Scott_H |
| (.224 member) |
| 24/07/14 06:54 AM |
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Also, Would the OE butt plate have been metal, or a rubber pad? Seems like I've seen Rigby's equipped both ways but not sure of the model/age of each of them. And in order to determine if the stock was ever cut, does anybody know if there was a standard L.O.P. these rifles would have been supplied with?
| tinker |
| (.416 member) |
| 24/07/14 02:52 PM |
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You might (should be able to) have access to the original order and leger page on this rifle from Rigby.
There is no absolute standard.
These rifles were (are) built to order.
Cheers
Tinker
| Scott_H |
| (.224 member) |
| 25/07/14 12:41 PM |
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Thanks for the suggestion Tinker, I've sent them an email asking about this information.
| 458Win |
| (.333 member) |
| 26/07/14 08:43 AM |
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Scott, I sent you a PM but here is a photo of an early 350 Rigby that Lon Paul restored and brought up on an Alaskan brown bear hunt. The top rifle is a 9.3x62 that he built for me.
Lon is one of the most knowledgeable and best restorer of old Rigby's.
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 26/07/14 09:25 AM |
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Scott,
I am going to borrow one of your photos and post it to the Rigby fb page. This will bring it to their attention, and maybe some info. Of course directly contacting them would also probably work.
If you don't like the above (?) let me know so I can delete it again.
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 26/07/14 11:07 AM |
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I've linked the thread rather than posting the photos as I haven't sought the members permission to use his photos.
| Scott_H |
| (.224 member) |
| 27/07/14 06:35 AM |
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Re: Inheritance
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Nitrox, go ahead and borrow the photos if you want... I'm actually planning to pull the rifle back out this afternoon and take some closeups of the sight for confirmation of its completeness. I'll see about taking a nicer overall photo of it at the same time.
By the way, the guys at Rigby got back to me right away and said they could find the info, but would have to charge me 60 euro for the service. Since I'm about a week away from dropping all my cash on a new roof, I've been trying to curtail my small purchases (mostly a psychological exercise to make myself feel better) until after it's done. I figure the records will still be there next month....
| 93x64mm |
| (.416 member) |
| 27/07/14 08:31 AM |
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Scott_H,
you are one lucky bloke to say the least! You can't put a value on history & you matey certainly have buckets of it there - something 99.99% of us wish we could have & never in a lifetime afford.
Use it as it should & treat them with respect, one day I hope you past them down to your grandkids.
This old poem below I copied out of a old Guns & Ammo yearbook (1984 I think?) - gave it to my lad when he got his first rifle quite some time ago!
Pass it onto your kids - this is what gun ownership is all about, we're just caretakers of history!
A Father's Advice
If a sportsman true you’d be
Listen carefully to me. . .
Never, never let your gun
Pointed be at anyone.
That it may unloaded be
Matters not the least to me.
When a hedge or fence you cross
Though of time it cause a loss
From your gun the cartridge take
For the greater safety’s sake.
If twixt you and neighboring gun
Bird shall fly or beast may run
Let this maxim ere be thine
"Follow not across the line."
Stops and beaters oft unseen
Lurk behind some leafy screen.
Calm and steady always be
"Never shoot where you can’t see."
You may kill or you may miss
But at all times think this:
"All the pheasants ever bred
Won’t repay for one man dead."
"Early Instruction"
By Carl Kauba
c. 1902
Written by Mark Beaufoy of Coombe House, Shaftesbury, Dorset, England, in 1902, on presenting his eldest son, Henry Mark, with his first gun. Reproduced here by permission of the author’s granddaughter, Mrs. P. M. Guild.
Cheers
93x64mm
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 27/07/14 08:38 AM |
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Thanks Scott.
| Scott_H |
| (.224 member) |
| 27/07/14 10:20 AM |
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OK, here are a few better photos. I'm hardly a patient or competent photographer, so these are about the closest to "glamor shots" that I'll get anytime soon. (heck, I can't even remember to turn off the time stamp in my photos, or at least set the date and time!)
These are of the rifle in "as received" condition. Not even any cleaning done to date. It's almost shamefully dirty, but worth documenting I guess. If you look carefully, you can still see the adhesive that was holding the original butt pad in place when my uncle received the rifle.
Also, the last couple photos show the front and rear sights. I found some close ups of the rear in the picture forum and mine is definitely missing the control knob... And I'm wondering about the groove on the front sight. Was there a hood or accessory that attached here?
Any suggestions on where I could find these parts?
| Iowa_303s |
| (.400 member) |
| 27/07/14 11:35 AM |
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Scott, truly an amazing rifle. Definitely not a safe queen, it shows honest use. Ah the stories it could tell.
Thanks for sharing it with us.
I look forward to updates on your progress with it and your future adventures with this piece of history.
| MFC |
| (.275 member) |
| 27/07/14 12:29 PM |
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Thats the stuff dreams are made of right there. I am jealous beyond words. Congratulations and keep us updated.
| pjaln |
| (.375 member) |
| 27/07/14 01:58 PM |
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look up the 375 rigby that dorleac posted pics of here and you will see the front sight protector in place ,,...paul
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 27/07/14 02:55 PM |
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If I could have a Rigby, I would love one like that in .350. I wouldn't do much to it, except fix the minor things.
I've added the photos to the NE server as well.
| Scott_H |
| (.224 member) |
| 27/07/14 04:33 PM |
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I wish I could take some credit for all the kudos, but really I'm just the recipient. Still, thanks everyone.
| rgg_7 |
| (.275 member) |
| 27/07/14 10:36 PM |
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One very nice "survivor" rifle.
The pieces missing from your bolt sight most likely will have to be made. There are guys out there who can do this for you....finding original parts might be possible...keep an eye on eBay, GunBroker or other popular auction sites. Never know what turns up.
Just a note...you stock is cracked just behind the rear tang. You need to repair prior to shooting. Generally cause by movement of the action in the stock. Very nice original piece so I'd take some care.
Ron
| Huvius |
| (.416 member) |
| 28/07/14 12:09 AM |
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The notches in the front sight are for a hood. Most of the Rigbys which I have looked at are missing the hood too so don't fret too much about that.
Is that front blade made of bone? Makes for a nice night sight I would think.
I think the Rigby restored by Dorleac has one so you can see what they look like. They are rather long and unattractive so I bet most of them were removed and subsequently lost.
Do you know any of the history of the rifle prior to your uncle getting it?
| Cazadero |
| (.375 member) |
| 28/07/14 03:07 AM |
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I hope to one day be able to start a sentence with;
Quote:
I recently found out that I'm inheriting...
Very nice rifle. Looks like you mean to take good care of it.
There are stories hidden in there you know.
| Scott_H |
| (.224 member) |
| 28/07/14 07:20 AM |
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Thanks guys.
Ron, I noticed that split in the photo. (It's not as visible in real life). I can think of a number of ways to fix it that would probably work, but in the interest of not making any mistakes, is there an accepted "right way"? If it was just my "yard sale" savage 30-06, I'd drill the end of the crack from inside the stock, degrease it and then inject some decent epoxy, but since this is a bit less ordinary, I'd at least like to make sure the repair is in line with what a gunsmith would recommend.
Huvius, I was assuming the front sight is ivory or bone, but it might also be some early plastic I suppose. I'm probably going to swap it out for one of the metal sight blades since I'm sure this one is getting a bit delicate.
The short version of the history is that my uncle received it as a gift from his son in law, who inherited it from his grandfather (the original owner). He is apparently not interested in it.
| Scott_H |
| (.224 member) |
| 28/07/14 02:17 PM |
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I see what you guys meant by the front sight hood. I just looked at the photos of the rifle that Dorleac restored and understand why i might get lost.
If someone that has either the hood or the rear sight control knob on their rifle would be willing to provide a few critical measurements, I think I can manufacture my own without too much trouble.
| Squarebridge |
| (.300 member) |
| 29/07/14 03:42 AM |
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I wouldn't mess with the sight hood. Sliding it on and off will wear the blacking on the barrel. I would instead work on removing the original sight blade and storing it with the others and having a replacement made that can be replaced if it gets broken.
I'd definitely send it to a gunsmith knowledgeable in restoration such as Lon Paul for an assessment and stabilization. Complete disassembly and evaluation with cleaning and conservation of the the wood and metal is time and money well spent.
If you lay the groundwork and take care of the details you can put hundreds of rounds through it and I even take it on safari if that's in the cards for you, but if it was my rifle I would definitely consult professionals and proceed in a stepwise manner.
I would not just clean the bore and shoot it.
| kuduae |
| (.400 member) |
| 29/07/14 05:14 AM |
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Quote:
If someone that has the rear sight control knob on their rifle would be willing to provide a few critical measurements, I think I can manufacture my own without too much trouble.
Scott, here are some photos and the measurements of the “control knob” or elevation adjustment disc of my original Rigby peep sight.
Diameter of disc: 18.73 mm = .735”
Thickness: 2.89 mm = .115”
The disc is held to the peep stem by a tiny screw in it’s center, diameter 2.01 mm = .078”
A small stud on the disc, diameter 1.58 mm = .062 , 2.3 mm = .09” high, distance from center 7.1 mm = .27”, rides the horizontal slot in the base.
| Scott_H |
| (.224 member) |
| 29/07/14 06:01 AM |
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That's exactly what I needed. Thanks Kuduae.
Is the distance you quoted from the center to the stud measured from the center of the screw hole to the center of the stud, or from edge to edge? Looking at the design, I don't think it's a critical dimension, but might as well be as accurate as possible.
Squarebridge, Sadly I don't think there are any safari's in my near future! Someone else already recommended Lon Paul and I'm definitely not discounting having a professional look at the rifle. But without any intention of disrespect to the pros around here, there's quite a bit that I'm capable of, and past experiences with specialists have often left me disappointed with the level of attention to detail that some of them have. I generally approach specialty services with caution and ask a lot of questions before I ever get started so that I'm well enough versed to catch on if things start to go amiss.
I was just going to install one of the several metal sight blades in place of the one that's in it... I hadn't thought about making another bone/plastic (or whatever it is) one... Wouldn't be all that tough. I like the idea! In terms of the hood, I'd probably either not use it at all, or leave it installed full time. I just like the idea of having all the original accessories. The rear knob (disc?) is much higher on my list of priorities than the hood though. And I tend to work very slow on this kind of thing. I've got a little savage OU sitting in my safe that's been waiting for me to finish making a new extractor for it for about 8 months now.
| kuduae |
| (.400 member) |
| 29/07/14 06:16 AM |
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Quote:
Is the distance you quoted from the center to the stud measured from the center of the screw hole to the center of the stud, or from edge to edge? Looking at the design, I don't think it's a critical dimension, but might as well be as accurate as possible.
Center to center, as close as I could determine it using calipers.
| Scott_H |
| (.224 member) |
| 29/07/14 08:21 AM |
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Thanks again Kuduae.
| A10ACN |
| (.300 member) |
| 18/08/14 01:44 AM |
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Fabulous rifle! Not to fault your skills but with the lack of knowledge which you've mentioned and the 100s (1000s?) of unrepairable amateur gunsmith mistakes I've observed, I highly, HIGHLY suggest having a real specialist at least look at this great piece before attempting any, even minor smithing. A lot of the small screws and such are very easy to butcher, for example. It doesn't cost anything to ask and most vintage rifle smiths would love to have a look at this neat old gal. Let me throw in that Lon Paul is an all around nice guy, too, whether you go with him or not.
| A10ACN |
| (.300 member) |
| 18/08/14 01:52 AM |
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I just noted that you are in AZ. Wells Sports Store in Prescott is the shop of the late Mauser Master, Fred Wells. Although Fred passed away a few years back, his son Rube is a life long Mauser lover, repairer, and full on builder. I would call him and take it over for them to look over. (928) 445-3655 according to Google.
| Scott_H |
| (.224 member) |
| 19/08/14 07:09 AM |
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Lon has been recommended to me a few times now. Once I get back to actually doing anything with this rifle I plan to give him a call. For now it's safely tucked away in my safe while I handle other more pressing projects.
In terms of what I can and can't do; I think I mentioned earlier that I am very cautious and ask a lot of questions before I do anything. I'd never jump willy nilly into a new project without thoroughly making sure that it's within my abilities. But I'm not without skills. I'm a former professional fine jeweler and metalsmith, amateur machinist (and budding gunsmith), and lifelong hotrodder/auto restorer. I appreciate the concern, but please take my word for the fact that I have a good handle on things and know enough to either do the job right or recognize if its beyond my abilities. Asking for input and advice before starting is just good practice.