(.300 member)

30/04/11 11:27 PM

333 Jeffery

As above,
barrel
action-Mauser Vs Zastava
twist 1:11? Nope, lets leave out the metford for now...
Reamers

All advice gratefully appreciated

TIA

Huvius

(.416 member)

01/05/11 01:15 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

I have a .333 Jeffery and have wondered the same as you if I were to build one up.
I would go with a 1909 Argentine Mauser action to start and build it as close to a Jeffery or TypeA Mauser as possible.
One thing I would consider, though, (especially if I were planning on keeping the rifle to the end) is to barrel it for .338" bullets. A lot more shooting at a lower cost and greater bullet selection that way. Even then if it were to be passed along and the new owner tried .333s in it, it still wouldn't pose any problems other than accuracy. You could stamp the barrel under the wood to specify the .338" bullet too just to cover it.

tophet1

(.400 member)

01/05/11 07:33 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

I am constantly looking at this project ,myself. The .333 is a poofteenth longer (3.5") than a standard .30-06 so the action would need opening up a smidgen and possibly new bottom metal. A surplus FN Mauser 98 carbine from Columbia or R.Famage Mauser 98 both in .30-06 might do it ??? but would have to be measured.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.333_Jeffery

I reckon a bare .375 length action would be an easier way to go depending on bolt face. Stocks are available off the shelf.

Woodleigh make projectiles.

As for a barrel. The most economical way to to get the bore dimensions right would be semi-custom. Maybe TSE or AFRO (who have a good working relationship with each other) or another gunsmith can make/buy a button and make a barrel from a bored unit. TSE use button rifling acording to their web sight and I can't imagine the cost would be much different apart from setting up.

Dies would be available from CH or the custom shops of the major suppliers.

If you go .338 then you may as well go .338-06 which FATBOY404 assures me is a very good combo in itself.

tophet1

(.400 member)

01/05/11 07:38 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

I'll send an email to TSE as to the possibility of .333 barrels and hopefully get a reply next week. What profile and twist Gentlemen ? Maybe Neale can tell us what works on his and his mates 338-06 rifles.

Huvius

(.416 member)

01/05/11 01:21 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Quote:

If you go .338 then you may as well go .338-06 which FATBOY404 assures me is a very good combo in itself.

I knew somebody would propose that, but man, it just aint as cool!
Even side by side with a .35 Whelen, the 333 has just that much more...something!

Dr_Deer

(.300 member)

01/05/11 01:28 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

You could always step boldly into the 21st Century with a M03 africa in 8.5x63 Reb

(where's the shit stir e'con

NitroX

(.700 member)

01/05/11 03:40 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Quote:

Quote:

If you go .338 then you may as well go .338-06 which FATBOY404 assures me is a very good combo in itself.

I knew somebody would propose that, but man, it just aint as cool!
Even side by side with a .35 Whelen, the 333 has just that much more...something!

Just not cool or classic.

Comments like the .338/06 does the same is like saying, a modern Holden Commodore will do the same as a classic Jaguar in good working order.

I still like the .318 WR (.330). Bullets from 160 gr to 250 gr.

.333 Jeffery sounds cool, but the bullets available are only 250 gr (?).

tophet1

(.400 member)

01/05/11 04:10 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Woodleigh make 250 and 300 RNSP and a 300 FMJ. SD for the 300's is .386.

AFRO408

(.333 member)

01/05/11 04:15 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Yeah, the .318 WR is

I just built one on a Columbian Mauser action ( it's going to get some nice engraving done ) and I had to make a throating reamer, to get the supplied Woodleigh bullet, to seat in the Walther chambered barrel.
Woodleigh make only one weight in .330 and this is the one the customer wanted to use.

Tony

500Nitro

(.450 member)

01/05/11 04:22 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

You can swage down 338 bullets for the 333 if you want other bullet weights.

rigbymauser

(.400 member)

01/05/11 04:27 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

I hope the more people are getting intersted in the tripletree, the more different bullets will be available for that caliber. I love the classic 300grain bullet, which was the reason I had one made up. However, a good spitzer in 230-250grain would turn this caliber into plainsgame rifle too.
The .333jeffery is good out to 200meters with the long 300grainer scoped or ironsighted, but could be turned into a 300meter+ springbok rifle with lighter bullets with higher BC.
I know most people will say: "why don`t you just get a .338win Mag"?. The .333Jeffery is a special cartridge just by the looks, which stands out from the crowd + its has been forgotten british cartridge for many years, until this forum came along:LOL. The case volume of the .33jeffery Vs .338winMag is something like 2% in favour to the winMag, no more. IF one wants to, he can duplicate the winMag ballistics very close with a lighter bullet. With the long 300grain bullet the winMag can be in trouble and loose , because the bullet steal casevolume, which the .333Jeffery would never care about, because all the bullet is in the long caseneck.
However, the .333Jeffery was never made to compete with the .338winMag in the first place, but actually compete with the .318WR or the 9,3Mauser at that time in period, to be the ultimate of all the medium bores. If one looks at the new Norma catalog, a 325grain bullet for the 9,3Mauser has a velocity of 670M/sec or 2198Ft/sec. That ballistic is done in a smaller case. The .333Jeffery does only 66Ft/sec faster with a 300grain, but in a bigger case. The .333jeffery is a lowpressure round.
I use today 65grain of Norma MRP or Rhino22 to a 300grain bullet. The M-velocity is 690M/sek, which is more than enough with woodleighs bullets. I wished Woodleigh would make a PP bullet in .333cal. The 300grain bullet is a very soft bullet, and velocity should not be exceeded, above the factory loads. I have shot Kynochs loads in my rifle, and they are very accurate, and they work very well on game too.
The caselengh is 64mm of the .Jeffery, but the Oal: is 87-88mm which leave almost 24mm of protruding bullet..almost an inch(25,4mm= 1"). This cartridge does need a long box of 90mm.

500Nitro

(.450 member)

01/05/11 05:04 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Rigbymauser

Re "I hope the more people are getting intersted in the tripletree, the more different bullets will be available for that caliber."

Even though I would like it to occur, I think that is wishful thinking if ever I saw it.

.

450_Ackley

(.375 member)

01/05/11 05:58 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Someone might want to get on to the Pacific Tool and Gauge website and buy the 333 Rimless reamer they have on special for I think $66-00 USD. This would save AFRO making one.

Regards,
DC

NitroX

(.700 member)

01/05/11 10:37 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

What's the lightest bullet available for the .333?

And are there any of decent construction ie for hunting deer and the like?

Thirdly, can you swage down bullets such as those with H or A jacket construction?

Re: the .318 (.330) there are some makers of lighter bullets, Bertam make a 180 gr. I think I recently saw a US maker making lighter bullets too.

tophet1

(.400 member)

01/05/11 11:06 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Quote:

Someone might want to get on to the Pacific Tool and Gauge website and buy the 333 Rimless reamer they have on special for I think $66-00 USD. This would save AFRO making one.

Regards,
DC

I'm owed back pay this week. If it comes in I'll get it. (you know, one of those under the cook's radar situations) .

eljefedouble

(.300 member)

02/05/11 01:38 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Thanks Gentlemen,
Its good to have dark fantasies on NE
I have a CZ 550 in 9.3x62 (initially bought for another project, but I didnt have the heart to cannibalise lil Thumper, and was lucky to get Afro in a good mood

)...comment?
PT&G - coincidence?
Yes, the thought about using 338 did occur, but I would like to go the nostalgia route. Future owner is 5 now,and has assured me I can use 'his' guns for a fair while
I echo John's question about ability to swage the H/A frame projjies.How much will it enhance the versatility? Used to, as we are, to the super efficient 300grainers.
Rigbymauser-I always wondered how the 333 Jeff can look so svelte,exude such an aura of nostalgia and yet, is such an efficient killer-all in a low power system??
Am on a strict embargo, cant slip under the radar, so am at the mercy of several friends, who have served the cause of us 'under the radar'

DarylS

(.700 member)

02/05/11 01:54 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Friend of mine just received dies to reduce .323's to .311 for his .303 #3's & Enfields. His order of dies necessary to reduce .338's to .328's for his 8x65R are on the way. Easy matter for someone to stop at .330".

The Lee dies cost $30.00US each and use 3 of them over a .010" or .011 reduction.

Lee is gaining considerable experience in reducing dies and can make knowledgable suggestions in the steps needed now.

DarylS

(.700 member)

02/05/11 01:59 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

For those who don't want the hassel of brass, special, very expensive dies and wierd bullet sizes, the .35 Whelen will about duplicate the .333's factory loads and then some, without stressing things, with easily available bullets as light as 150gr. or up to 300gr. and factory dies - but then, it wouldn't be a .333 Jeffery, would it.

Judging by the picture of the rounds, with the Whelen's bullet seated out just a bit, the oal's would be identical or whatever the owner wanted, within the confines of one's chamber, that is.

NitroX

(.700 member)

02/05/11 02:12 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Quote:

Re: the .318 (.330) there are some makers of lighter bullets, Bertam make a 180 gr. I think I recently saw a US maker making lighter bullets too.

GS Custom also makes a 165 gr .330 HV bullet.

DarylS

(.700 member)

02/05/11 09:31 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Should be able to go .338 to .333 in one pass - only .005". It is good to be able to seat the entire bullet inside the die before much pressure is brought to bear upon it's posterior.

tophet1

(.400 member)

02/05/11 10:11 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Swageing (or is it drawing) bullets is the next thing I'd like to do. Is there any special gear you need. Like Preses etc ?

emails sent to Pacific Tool and Gauge and TSE.

eljefedouble

(.300 member)

02/05/11 10:16 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Daryl,
I've used Anhydrous wool fat for resizing, case forming etc in the past, and the effect is amazing.But I have never sized bullets, being lucky to get kilos of .311 in 303 ..I expect it will have the usual magic on this segment of reloading too...any one been there done that?
If, as you're describing, Lee is doing good on these 2 or 3 set reducing dies, at those kind of prices, definitely very high on my TO DO list.
There are a certain couple of gentlemen, I am awaiting to hear from

eljefedouble

(.300 member)

02/05/11 10:24 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Quote:

Quote:

I knew somebody would propose that, but man, it just aint as cool!
Even side by side with a .35 Whelen, the 333 has just that much more...something!

Huvius, a fellow kindered soul?
I have lusted for that 'something', in a svelte and distinct shape, for over 20 years.
Like I said, pays to have dark thoughts on NE, inspite of embargos and er, um, "slipping under the cook's radar "
Thanks Top, I lost you when you went the 416 way, seems we're in this together!

NitroX

(.700 member)

03/05/11 03:04 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Quote:

Should be able to go .338 to .333 in one pass - only .005". It is good to be able to seat the entire bullet inside the die before much pressure is brought to bear upon it's posterior.

OK Gentlemen,

If you had a .333 Jeffery and wanted to use some .338 projectiles in it, and swage them down, which ones would you choose and think would be appropriate?

500Nitro

(.450 member)

03/05/11 03:05 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Nitro

Are you target shooting or game shooting ?

I wouldn't pick aythig like an A Frame.

Sierra's have always been known to work well with the process - thin jacket et al.

NitroX

(.700 member)

03/05/11 03:14 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

I would be thinking of game hunting.

DarylS

(.700 member)

03/05/11 05:37 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Here in Canada, the easiest to obtain would be 250gr. Noslers, RP's maybe, Hornady's etc. Woodeighs in 300gr. would also work fine, but are VERY expensive here. Sizing down, drawing them, appears to work-hardent he jackets and make the bullets tougher than prior, so a sized down 225 or 200gr. or heavier 250gr. normal lead cored bullets would work well on most species - in all likeyhood.

There are fine .338" bullets in sizeable form- standard lead core and fuilding metal jacket, from 200gr. to 300, then.

The even lighter 165gr. and 185gr. TSX's are too hard to reduce(I'm sure) and aren't needed, anyway.

The Lee dies work well in any compound leverage, cast steel press - RCBS, Lyman, Hornady just to name 3.

tophet1

(.400 member)

03/05/11 07:09 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Bad news from PT&G. It will have to be a new reamer (one day).

eljefedouble

(.300 member)

03/05/11 08:33 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Quote:

Here in Canada, the easiest to obtain would be 250gr. Noslers, RP's maybe, Hornady's etc. Woodeighs in 300gr. would also work fine, but are VERY expensive here. Sizing down, drawing them, appears to work-hardent he jackets and make the bullets tougher than prior, so a sized down 225 or 200gr. or heavier 250gr. normal lead cored bullets would work well on most species - in all likeyhood.

There are fine .338" bullets in sizeable form- standard lead core and fuilding metal jacket, from 200gr. to 300, then.

The even lighter 165gr. and 185gr. TSX's are too hard to reduce(I'm sure) and aren't needed, anyway.

The Lee dies work well in any compound leverage, cast steel press - RCBS, Lyman, Hornady just to name 3.

You forgot a T mag, Daryl.

Top
When's the next special due?

can we make a down payment or something...
Sizing down 338 projjies using a 2 step Lee die.Shall we also ask Lee if they can do the 338- 333 sizing die or do we have to provide samples of the intended projectiles?
Cheers

NitroX

(.700 member)

03/05/11 09:57 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Quote:

Noslers, ... The even lighter 165gr. and 185gr. TSX's are too hard to reduce(I'm sure) and aren't needed, anyway.

I would have thought any bullet with an A or H type "jacket" would not swage, such as partitions, A-frame, H-mantel etc.

Don't know, the reason I am asking.

In order not to hyjack this thread I'm starting another on the .318 vs .333 to see what people think about the advantages or not of either. Both are intriguing cartridges.

DarylS

(.700 member)

04/05/11 12:57 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Good move, John.

Not sure about sizing partitions - don't see why not as the Noslers have a fairly thin web, but maybe it's too much.

H-mantles should be easy enough as the web only goes in a short distance.

I don't know anything about T-mags.

A phone call to Lee is usually required as custom dies aren't listed on the web site - thus no button to click for them.

A .335" and a .332" should work fine. There is generally a bit of spring-back in the bullet, so the bullet will end up at .332" to .333". Spring-back wold suggest loose jackets, but that does not seem to be happening - accuracy is super and penetration is even better than the original bullet provides.

The 2-die set would allow sizing down harder bullets, ie: bullets with harder cores, thicker jacket - easier for the partitions, that sort of thing.

The base plunger (pusher) comes with the dies, along with lee liquid Alox, which they say is easier for sizing jacketed bullets than Imperial die wax or other waxes or oils. I have several bottles of it, so I will have to try it myself.

eljefedouble

(.300 member)

04/05/11 11:38 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Daryl,I wonder if I can send across some wool fat for you to try.Amazing stuff, I tell you!

In effect , the drawing down/sizing down actually adds to the hardness? by compressing the jacket some more against the core? 0.338 to 0.335 and then to 0.332 sounds like a good idea, to handle stuff like A or H partitions...Wonder if any one here can give input if they have actually sized down these partition type bullets?

T mag is my Lyman reloading press. Looks pretty sturdy to me.
cheers

tophet1

(.400 member)

04/05/11 11:52 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Cost .333 Jeffrey Reamer:

The HSS 333 Jeffery Rimless is $147.00 and the gauges are $27.00 each for Go, No-Go and Field.

tophet1

(.400 member)

04/05/11 12:50 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Just heard from TSE barrels. They hope to have .333 barrels soon. Their Tony is working on it and my have buttons available in 2 months.

All good things come to those who wait.

AFRO408

(.333 member)

04/05/11 06:54 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Quote:

Bad news from PT&G. It will have to be a new reamer (one day).

Hehe. Got there first

AFRO408

(.333 member)

04/05/11 07:07 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

The amount of force needed to re-draw jacketed bullets is very little and can be handled in a normal sturdy reloading press. In fact it is easier than Full length sizing some cases.
I have done it with home made drawing dies and just using re-sizing lube. LEE sizing lube would be ideal.
The step from .338 to .333 could be done in one pass and should not effect the relationship between the jacket and core.
Corbin recommends no more than .010" re-drawing as, with more than this, the jacket comes loose from the core.
Having a partition should not make any difference at all to the exercise.

I could make a set of hardened die and punch for anyone that wants one, in what ever size.

John, that news that TSE are going to make .333 barrels is really good, eh.

Tony

tophet1

(.400 member)

04/05/11 07:13 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Quote:

Quote:

Bad news from PT&G. It will have to be a new reamer (one day).

Hehe. Got there first

Good news.

eljefedouble

(.300 member)

04/05/11 11:42 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Quote:

Just heard from TSE barrels. They hope to have .333 barrels soon. Their Tony is working on it and my have buttons available in 2 months.

All good things come to those who wait.

Absolutely +1, Top
Thanks Tony, for 'getting in' first.
Any idea what twist rate TSE likes for the 333?
Action -ideas, suggestions?
Cheers

tophet1

(.400 member)

06/05/11 09:01 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

The 1 in 11" twist works very well I'm told by an owner. (PM Rigbyuser or search his posts). I have no idea what TSE have planed. I guess you can email them with suggestions.

My 9.3x62 has a 25" #4 contour barrel with a muzzle dia. od of 0.650". I am very happy with this contour in that calibre and it balances very well in that rifle and the .333 is only a bit smaller.

A .333 hole in that profile would provide a thicker wall and more weight. To balance, a 23" or 24" barrel would be about right.

450_Ackley

(.375 member)

06/05/11 01:49 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

I have been speaking to Bruce Bertram this week regarding some odd cases, anyway, he was telling me that he is making .333 diameter projectiles now, they will just be plain cup and core types, but as mentioned previously, more than good enough for most hunting in Australia.
I think they will be about $82-00 per hundred, for both 180 and 250 grain bullets.
His range has expanded considerably lately, making up to .585 diameters now.
Could be another option?

Forgot to add, he does .318 diameters in 180 and 250 grain weights as well, same price.

Re - the twist for the 333, I'd nearly put money on Tony going with a 1~10" twist, JMHO.

Regards,
DC

eljefedouble

(.300 member)

06/05/11 06:18 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Thanks 450 Ackley for the updates.
Is that twist similar to the venerable 30-06 twists? any idea why ?
if that is going to be a medium game rifle, running from 180-300Gr, will be interesting to see how the twist will handle such a variation

450_Ackley

(.375 member)

06/05/11 08:25 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

I have nothing to base my opinion on that Tony will go for a 10" twist, other than he does prefer to go about 1-2 " faster than what is considered "standard" and that 10 was a nice round number.
I don't have an inside knowledge, just an educated guess.

DC

eljefedouble

(.300 member)

06/05/11 10:31 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

I like my bullets heavy, Thanks Ackley

DarylS

(.700 member)

07/05/11 01:27 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Lee advised my buddy Keith to try their liquid alox for a drawing lube. They claimed it superior to the other sizing lubes, like Imperial. I normally use Imperial or STOS lubes, which are both high pressure lubes.

I size in a FL .222 Pacific die I modified considerably, from .375" down to .366" in one pass in a Hornady press - about the same 'work' as sizing a .300 WinMAg case - pretty easy. The come out at .367" which is fine in both my 9.3 cal. rifles.

eljefedouble

(.300 member)

08/05/11 09:29 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Daryl, If you read the 318 thread, the price of the 404 to 333 forming die is, er, hilarious, here in Oz.
What do you suggest?
TIA

eljefedouble

(.300 member)

08/05/11 11:49 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

John:

htt <a href="p://www.huntingtons.com/dies_specialorder.html" target="_blank">p://www.huntingtons.com/dies_specialorder.html</a>

Also, see top of P3, here:

htt p://www.lone-star-armory.com/library/Ballistics-Classic-Cartridges.pdf

eljefedouble

(.300 member)

12/05/11 10:03 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Also,

any one have any info on DSB action availability in Australia, as in:

htt p://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=16932&an=0&page=19#Post16932

TIA

500Nitro

(.450 member)

12/05/11 11:14 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Quote:

Also,

any one have any info on DSB action availability in Australia, as in:

htt <a href="p://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=16932&an=0&page=19#Post16932" target="_blank">p://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=16932&an=0&page=19#Post16932</a>

TIA

I think those were the Vector South African actions.
I don't think they are made anymore.

That post on the link was from 2004.

eljefedouble

(.300 member)

13/05/11 12:35 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

I am optimistic, Nigel!

DarylS

(.700 member)

13/05/11 01:18 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Tia - in forming cases with misc. dies, I look at the sizes of the brass cross-referencing to chart listings of normal dies. This is to find correlations and cross references so I can use easily procurred dies for my case forming. These I can use to make my brass fit for fireforming as forming dies are prohibitively expensive.

If you have a reamer - even just a finishing reamer, you can make your own seating die. If you have the roughing reamer, you can make your own FL die. This, of course, providing you have a lathe and a bar of mild steel (or donation die that only needs annealing). Since to have a chamber cut, one reamer is necessary, you already have what's necessary to make a seating die. The seating die can be used in forming, quite easily, then a purchased FL die is used to finish the job.

If no reamers are at hand, you will have to revert to cobbling dies together or modifying them to answer to your needs.

Shoulders must be in the proper position, of course to maintain headspace, but other dies or parts of dies can be used for the forming operation.

Successively smaller holes in a plate can also be used for simply necking down brass. There needs to be a polished chamfer at the entrance of the hole. A drill press, low speed with a lube like Imperial die wax is used in the necking operation. Some guys use these for converting ctg. to smaller calibres with no body changes and even for pushing shoulders back on some brass.

Cajun Blake on Saubier's small bore forum makes these plates for retail - for around $100.00. They handle a variety of calibres. You could conceivably neck a .5 Browning down to take a .14 cal. bullet - if you wanted - bit of neck turning will be required.

Again - it is amazing how much work can be done with a seating die alone.

7mmMagnum

(.224 member)

13/05/11 09:34 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Quote:

I am optimistic, Nigel!

Get onto Bob DeVries. I almost slipped over in a pile of drool when i walked into his vault cause he has about 10 Vektor actions on the shelf.

500Nitro

(.450 member)

13/05/11 09:37 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Quote:

Quote:

I am optimistic, Nigel!

Get onto Bob DeVries. I almost slipped over in a pile of drool when i walked into his vault cause he has about 10 Vektor actions on the shelf.

Wow, now that is interesting.

How long ago was that ?

7mmMagnum

(.224 member)

13/05/11 10:59 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

September.

tophet1

(.400 member)

13/05/11 11:20 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

How many were left after you walked out Nathan (?).

DarylS

(.700 member)

13/05/11 11:41 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

further note - buddy Keith says Lee told him the Partitions size down just fine.

500Nitro

(.450 member)

13/05/11 11:45 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

I wonder why so many.

I also guess they were purchased when the $ was
really low which wouldn't be good.

7mmMagnum

(.224 member)

13/05/11 02:52 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Quote:

How many were left after you walked out Nathan (?).

Same as when i walked in. I was eyeing one off for a 416 Rigby, but i've got my heart set on a fair dinkum honest to god original Magnum Mauser action to build on. I'll never find it, i know, but i live in hope.

500Nitro

(.450 member)

13/05/11 02:59 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Quote:

Quote:

How many were left after you walked out Nathan (?).

Same as when i walked in. I was eyeing one off for a 416 Rigby, but i've got my heart set on a fair dinkum honest to god original Magnum Mauser action to build on. I'll never find it, i know, but i live in hope.

Now that is living with hope. I hope you
do find one as they are superb actions,
just damn big (I have a 505 Gibbs).

eljefedouble

(.300 member)

14/05/11 10:14 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Quote:

Quote:

I am optimistic, Nigel!

Get onto Bob DeVries. I almost slipped over in a pile of drool when i walked into his vault cause he has about 10 Vektor actions on the shelf.

I'd like to slip over too, mate.
How does one meet this DeVries? sorry to sound disconnected...

500Nitro

(.450 member)

14/05/11 10:36 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I am optimistic, Nigel!

Get onto Bob DeVries. I almost slipped over in a pile of drool when i walked into his vault cause he has about 10 Vektor actions on the shelf.

I'd like to slip over too, mate.
How does one meet this DeVries? sorry to sound disconnected...

Go to his workshop. North East of Melb in the foot of the Dandenongs, I think Montrose.

DarylS

(.700 member)

15/05/11 01:52 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Seems to me, they were only around $100.00 in the early 70's around here. That was a lot of money, with bullets at $3.00 per C.

eljefedouble

(.300 member)

16/05/11 12:46 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Quote:

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I am optimistic, Nigel!

Get onto Bob DeVries. I almost slipped over in a pile of drool when i walked into his vault cause he has about 10 Vektor actions on the shelf.

I'd like to slip over too, mate.
How does one meet this DeVries? sorry to sound disconnected...

Go to his workshop. North East of Melb in the foot of the Dandenongs, I think Montrose.

Thanks Mate, on a good day, i can see the dandenongs from home

NitroX

(.700 member)

17/06/11 02:16 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

A couple of articles, thanks to RigbyMauser.

"The .333 Jeffery" by Koos Barnard

"Think Thirty-Three Calibre" by Gregor Woods

AFRO408

(.333 member)

21/06/11 10:47 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

How would you all feel about putting the .333 Jeffery chamber into a .338 barrel.
This size bore is easy to get and the difference is miniscule. It's about the same difference you get with the older rifles anyway, with some of them being well overbore.
When I get the PTG reamer, I'll be measuring the neck clearance, but I think there will be enough anyway, to allow the .338 bullet in the neck without any modifications to the chamber.

Afro

Huvius

(.416 member)

21/06/11 11:43 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

I like the idea a lot.
Would be great to have that wide selection of bullets.
I have never swaged down anything other than lead .308s down to .300" but I still have a tinge of doubt about squeezing jacketed bullets although it is frequently done. Don't know how it doesn't alter the bullets integrity or hardness, but apparently doesn't hurt anything.
The .338" barrel would obviate the issue.

AFRO408

(.333 member)

21/06/11 12:10 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

The problem with drawing jacketed bullets down in size, is the difference in the metals.
If the bullet is a bonded core one, like Woodleighs and others, then the jacket can't come away from the core when it springs back.
If the bullet is the cup & core type, then after drawing down, the jacket is not contacting the core as hard as it once was.
Lead has virtually no elasticity whereas copper has.

DarylS

(.700 member)

21/06/11 12:51 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

AFRO408 - such would definitley seem the case & was what stymied me for years. 9.3x57 got me intersted again in sizing down .375's for my 9.3's and we've found the process much easier than Corbin let on in their data. We also found the dies necessary, needn't cost hundreds of dollars from a 'specialty' bullet drawing, swaging company. Lee will glady make you the necessary dies, we found, for around $25.00 to $30.00 for each .003" in sizing. Indeed, their experience in this venture grows daily, and they now have a very good handle on what's necessary.

What we've found with sizing .375" bullet down to .367" and .366" for our 9.3's, is that they shoot into an inch or better, not losing any accuracy and actually get tougher and penetrate more deeply, rather then becoming innacurate or 'softer'. Whether the jacket and core separate or not, is moot, if they shoot as well and penetrate even better.

We found Hornady bonded Interbond's still stick together and didn't come apart. They had been sized/drawn .009" form stock size, to .366" from .375". That's Hornady's bonding. So far, we haven't tried Woodleigh bonded bullets (that I know of).

AFRO408

(.333 member)

21/06/11 06:13 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Daryl, what you found, by your experiments, is predictable.
Every time you work copper, it gets harder, hence the experience of the drawn bullets penetrating further and as you say, if they loose their cores in the game animal.....doesn't matter much, so long as they kill it.

I have resized FMJ .303 bullets to shoot in my .308, but they were only for target use and couldn't have come apart anyway.

DarylS

(.700 member)

22/06/11 12:19 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Yes - aware of the work-hardening of copper and/or guilding metal.

What Rod's experinents showed, though, was that the cores didn't separate, not from the Bonded cored bullets, lead still 'stuck' to the jacket material, and in the standard drawn cup, swaged ammo, the ones that did separate merely fell apart after stopping, not during the trip.

I'm quite 'taken' with these 'reduced' bullets.

bwanabobftw

(.375 member)

25/06/11 04:28 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Anyone have any experience with the "Flange" version of the .333 ? Would make a fun project in a Ruger #1 !!!
Robert

rigbymauser

(.400 member)

25/06/11 09:44 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Making a flanged version in a Ruger Nr.1 should be doable...I just wished Woodleigh could/would make a spitzer a la their PP bullet in 230-240grain. That would turn my .333Jeffery into a versatile battery for around the world.
I am heading for Africa here in August, bringing my .333Jeffery and a Rigby 12bore Ball & Shot gun.

bwanabobftw

(.375 member)

25/06/11 11:42 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

That sounds like the perfect "combo" !!!! What country will you be hunting ?
Robert

DarylS

(.700 member)

26/06/11 02:36 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Quote:

Making a flanged version in a Ruger Nr.1 should be doable...I just wished Woodleigh could/would make a spitzer a la their PP bullet in 230-240grain. That would turn my .333Jeffery into a versatile battery for around the world.

I am heading for Africa here in August, bringing my .333Jeffery and a Rigby 12bore Ball & Shot gun.

About any guilding metal, lead core .338" bullet can be drawn down to .333" for the Jeffery or .330" for the .318 or .8x56R. friend on mine just received his dies from Lee, but hasn't brought them over for sizing down bullets yet.

I am convinced that bonded bullets will not be broken loose, that the lead itself moves within itself and the bond is not broken. This is what appeared to happen with Hornady's Interbond .375's.

"Lee" suggested their liquid alox as a sizing lube - they day it makes a superior drawing lube. I'll have to try it some day.

bwanabobftw

(.375 member)

26/06/11 06:08 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Are those sizing dies a catalog item or do you have to special order them from LEE ?
Robert

rigbymauser

(.400 member)

26/06/11 06:46 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Quote:

That sounds like the perfect "combo" !!!! What country will you be hunting ?
Robert

Zuid Afrika!.

Baboon, warthog, kudu will be digested with the 300grainers from the .333Jeffery. The 12bore Rigby is for gunieafowls.

The .333Jeffery will also be used for an accational steenbok, blesbok or blesbok. Where I really wanted the light spitzers was for the loooong shots at springboks.

bwanabobftw

(.375 member)

26/06/11 07:16 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Sounds like fun !!!! Do you shoot your Rigby with balls ?? I have a H&H Paradox I have been working with. I plan on using it on the Guniea as well as some plains game. Good luck !! You will have to hunt the Springbok a little harder to get within range , but it will make it all the sweeter !!!!
Go well,
Robert

DarylS

(.700 member)

26/06/11 08:20 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Rigbymaster - sized down .338", 225 gr. spitzers (or noslers) might be just the 'ticket' for long shots at appropriate game. The 200gr. Nosler BT. has an exceptionally thick jacket for shooting elk at high speed from a .338 mag. At .333 speeds and drawn down, it should penetrate even better.

The Lee dies are order vis a phone call or written order. They are not listed on their web site.

eljefedouble

(.300 member)

26/06/11 03:58 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Afro- if its NOT blasphemy,
A 338 barrel, on a 333 chamber, which means 333 cases loaded with 'modern' 338 bullets? Will the 333case take the bullet difference??
Otherwise , are we running 338 per 333 specs?
Intriguing, economical and probably do able-until we get a large run of metford barrels in 333 ?

As Huvius stated at the beginning, we can stamp 338 under the bbl? Will Tophet's suggestion of a colombian action do? I'd like to save the argie 09 for the metford barrel...

rigbymauser

(.400 member)

26/06/11 05:41 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Quote:

Rigbymaster - sized down .338", 225 gr. spitzers (or noslers) might be just the 'ticket' for long shots at appropriate game. The 200gr. Nosler BT. has an exceptionally thick jacket for shooting elk at high speed from a .338 mag. At .333 speeds and drawn down, it should penetrate even better.

The Lee dies are order vis a phone call or written order. They are not listed on their web site.

Thanks Daryl.

Lee might be the way to go.Thanks!!.

BTW. If the good folks here on the forums wants to make .333Jeffery bullets, the .30US carbine brass fits almost perfect for the .333"dia. With a minimum of sizing, one can size the jackets from there. I have thought of finding spended cases for the .30US, size them, and fill them up the lead.

eljefedouble!.

Regarding .333cal vs. 338cal barrel I was in the same dilemma. The thought of choosing a .338cal barrel seems the most logical choice, because of the great bulletselection already available, however I went for the correct dia for the jeffery, which I haven`t regrettet. One must say to himself WHY the jefferycaliber to begin with?. Its the looong bullet in a sexy package that really appeal to most gunbuffs. Buying a 300grain bullet in either .333cal or .338cal cost the same anyway(here in Denmark they do). Another thing is, it is important to remain loyal to the original thought and ideas, aswell as to the originallity of the project. Any architech would say the same thing. Satisfaction follows!.
PS: From where I decided to have a .333jeffery rifle 5 years went. 1 year to find a barrelmaker, 2 years for the barrels to arrive + 2 years on the gunmaker to finish.

tophet1

(.400 member)

26/06/11 06:21 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

There is also the .333OKH. Brass is available and in the interim you can reform .30-06 brass and only need a standard length action.

AFRO408

(.333 member)

26/06/11 06:34 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

I wouldn't consider it blasphemy, but purists would and if Tony, up at TSE, starts making .333" barrels, the point will be moot.
You would run the .338-333 round just as if it was the original thing, load data would be the same, as would be pressures.
As I wrote before, until I get the reamer, I won't be able to say whether the neck area would have to be opened up or not.
Any M98 action, in good condition, would do for the project.

eljefedouble

(.300 member)

26/06/11 06:41 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

We must await the reamer then... We can call it 333 Oz?

Rigby Mauser, indeed, the 300 Gr bullet in the svelte cartridge is what 333Jeff means to me. I havent given up on the original, inspite of the slight hijack...
Cheers

DarylS

(.700 member)

27/06/11 02:31 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

That picture (Taylor's African Rifles etc) of the lioness in full STOP, after collecting a 300gr. .333 to the forehead remains forever emblazoned in my subconcious- and reocurs in my mind every time someone mentions .333 Jeffery 300gr. - of course, unles I'm remembering it wrong - HA! woundn't be the first time I got mixed up with memories.

rigbymauser

(.400 member)

27/06/11 07:32 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Quote:

That picture (Taylor's African Rifles etc) of the lioness in full STOP, after collecting a 300gr. .333 to the forehead remains forever emblazoned in my subconcious- and reocurs in my mind every time someone mentions .333 Jeffery 300gr. - of course, unles I'm remembering it wrong - HA! woundn't be the first time I got mixed up with memories.

That picture is found in Elmer keiths book `Safari`

DarylS

(.700 member)

27/06/11 08:25 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

OH! HA! TKS.

rigbymauser

(.400 member)

30/06/11 06:30 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Just corresponded with Andrew McLaren regarding my upcomming hunt. He wants take me on to Botswana eland, deep into the kalaharis. My .333jeffery is ready. Hope to shoot warthog too this time.

eljefedouble

(.300 member)

07/07/11 01:19 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Keep us posted rigbymauser, will be a good re-testimonial for the 333J

eljefedouble

(.300 member)

03/08/11 12:07 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Quote:

Just heard from TSE barrels. They hope to have .333 barrels soon. Their Tony is working on it and my have buttons available in 2 months.

All good things come to those who wait.

Top,
any news on the barrel front?

I may just go ahead and use the CZ 550 ( better ask Afro first!)
I think I've found some one interested in making the dies...

Cheers

tophet1

(.400 member)

03/08/11 10:49 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

I emailed TSE last week but have not had a 2nd reply. I will have to telephone them.All good things come to those who wait my friend.

tophet1

(.400 member)

03/08/11 03:15 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Just spoke to Veronica at TSE, they have not ordered .333 buttons yet. It takes 6 weeks. It is on the to do list and they have the order listed to send out. She has asked me to chase it up in a months time.

eljefedouble

(.300 member)

03/08/11 10:35 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

NO worries
We seem to be good for cases and projjies too...

9.3x57

(.450 member)

03/08/11 11:21 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

I didn't read the whole thread but has anyone actually measured the internal capacity {e.g. grains of water} of the .338 Win Mag and the .333 Jeffrey?

Carpetsahib

(.333 member)

03/08/11 11:40 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

The Handloaders Manual of Cartridge Conversions by John Donnelly lists the case capacity of the .338 Win at 85.62 grs water; the .333 Jeffery is 86.13 grs water.

9.3x57

(.450 member)

04/08/11 12:17 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Quote:

The Handloaders Manual of Cartridge Conversions by John Donnelly lists the case capacity of the .338 Win at 85.62 grs water; the .333 Jeffery is 86.13 grs water.

Thanks!

I thought they were close but didn't realize they were that close.

In effect, we seem to have a modern .333 in the .338 Win, the latter of which could be loaded to .333 pressures for .333 performance. Just musing...

NitroX

(.700 member)

04/08/11 12:36 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Quote:

Quote:

The Handloaders Manual of Cartridge Conversions by John Donnelly lists the case capacity of the .338 Win at 85.62 grs water; the .333 Jeffery is 86.13 grs water.

Thanks!

I thought they were close but didn't realize they were that close.

In effect, we seem to have a modern .333 in the .338 Win, the latter of which could be loaded to .333 pressures for .333 performance. Just musing...

True. I think Elmer Keith said something very simailar decades ago.

The .330 (approx) range of calibres were his favourites for medium game I though.

DarylS

(.700 member)

04/08/11 07:41 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Matching the ballistics & killing prowess of the .333 Jeffery, is why Elmer came up with the original .333 OKH on the necked up, '06 case, to shoot the same 300gr. bullet at the same speed or slightly higher - seems to me.

The standard bolt actions he used, allowed the smaller case to match the larger one, albeit at much higher pressures - probably reaching 63,000PSI, same as some of the standard 06 BRASS loadings today.

eljefedouble

(.300 member)

04/08/11 03:32 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

so, where do we get a 333J barrel in the US?

DarylS

(.700 member)

05/08/11 01:39 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Today - I don't know - could try ALL of the makers here.
Pa-Nor, Shilen, Hart, Green Mountain, Kreiger, Badger, etc, etc. I'd cheat and go .338, myself.

eljefedouble

(.300 member)

05/08/11 09:59 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Thanks Daryl,
I checked out Krieger
h <a href="ttp://www.kriegerbarrels.com/RapidCat/catalog/pagetemplate.cfm?template=/RapidCat/common/viewPage.cfm&PageId=3390&CompanyId=1246" target="_blank">ttp://www.kriegerbarrels.com/RapidCat/catalog/pagetemplate.cfm?template=/RapidCat/common/viewPage.cfm&PageId=3390&CompanyId=1246</a>
and they have a 318 bbl with a bore dia of 318 and a groove dia of 33.

Pac Nor here have a 33 barrel in 33-06...
h ttp://www.pac-nor.com/wildcat/
Ideas ,anyone?
TIA

taw1126

(.333 member)

07/08/11 10:56 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Danny Pedersen at Classic Barrel Works. He made a 318 WR barrel for Empire Rifles and I think he can make anything else you want.

http://www.cutrifle.com/

eljefedouble

(.300 member)

08/08/11 10:34 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

taw- i'd love to get a barrel off Danny...may not happen soon

tophet1

(.400 member)

09/08/11 07:26 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

We made it to five pages. (insert: 'Dance of Joy' icon).

eljefedouble

(.300 member)

09/08/11 03:28 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

here you go-

:dance of joy:

bugga, another month to go?

rigbymauser

(.400 member)

14/08/11 06:46 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Almost ready to go..
Every cartridged has been down the mag pushed into chamber. They all were slickfeeding!.

tophet1

(.400 member)

14/08/11 07:33 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Ok Jens, I'm jealous...... The PG don't stand a chance.

rigbymauser

(.400 member)

14/08/11 08:18 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Quote:

Ok Jens, I'm jealous......

Why do you think I posted these pictures?..hahahaha.
70 rounds of ammo was loaded up here last night. 65 grains of Norma MRP. Fed215 primer.COL 88mm. HH brass.
BTW. The ballistics of the .333Jeffery with a 300grain bullet is really a brick thrown with left hand. scope set for 100meters the bulletdrop at 200m is 20cm and at 300meters the bullet drop is 70cm!!.
The ideal deadon sightrange for scopeuse is 175meters.
Another BTW. I am planning on having another .333jeffery made up with the last barrel I have. The project is on the drawingboard already:LOL.

DarylS

(.700 member)

15/08/11 08:35 AM

Re: 333 Jeffery

1 missing - hope it isn't in the chamber. 50 + 19.

Looks good.

rigbymauser

(.400 member)

15/08/11 11:36 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Quote:

1 missing - hope it isn't in the chamber. 50 + 19.

Looks good.

Your right..Confession here in writting!.Well spotted!!.

I reloaded 70 cartridges, but one didn`t get powder, so it went for a dummy. I still have 20 rounds of Kynoch factory cartridges left for back up though:LOL. However 70 rounds will go to SOuth Africa in 2 days.

eljefedouble

(.300 member)

17/08/11 10:12 PM

Re: 333 Jeffery

Bravo Jens!
Good hunting and keep us posted
Best

NitroX

(.700 member)

18/08/11 12:19 AM