| Aaron_Little |
| (.300 member) |
| 18/10/18 01:28 PM |
Ernst Stiegleder pre-war sporter 8x60mmJ
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Im waiting on delivery of this little gem. It’s a pre-ww2 custom sporter rifle built on a Mauser 98 action in tradition German style. Caliber is 8x60mmJ, a bit of an odd ball. Will be perfect for deer or even up to elk and moose.
I’ve always wanted an example of an early German sporter. They didn’t cut many corners on them. The barrel on this one changes from octagon to round, and the full length rib and sling mount are machined integral. On anything but modern CNC machines the barrel alone has days of work in just contouring. Draw filing, polishing, and the matting of the rib is additional. A select few do this today at astronomical prices.
The rifle is missing its rings for the German claw mounts. I have a guy who can find some and fit them. For a Quick-release setup they are as good as it gets. Very stout, repeatable if fit correctly, and takes seconds to remove the scope in case iron sights become a priority. Another costly piece and usually only seen on the best guns of today.
The engraving done tastefully and well with traditional hammer and chisel methods.
The rifle has seen its years. Not abused, just showing it’s use. The color case hardening and bluing that adorned the rifle have since been removed in carry areas. The bore is in fair condition only showing light frosting. I’m still undetermined if I’ll restore it.
| Rothhammer1 |
| (.400 member) |
| 18/10/18 03:13 PM |
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Re: Ernst Stiegleder pre-war sporter 8x60mmJ
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Here's the 'factory job' as available from the 1939 Stoeger catalog; "Supplied regularly only in caliber .30-06 U. S. but can be had on special order in any other Mauser caliber.":
Actions for builders (No. 4 is 8X60):
Ballistics:
Scope mounting:
Claw mounts are wonderful! My (formerly Grand-dad's) Mannlicher Schönauer M1910 has them. Scope is removed and / or replaced effortlessly and instantly with precise return to 'zero'.
Here is a modern source for them: New England Custom Gun
Their full catalog: NECG Catalog
| Homer |
| (.416 member) |
| 18/10/18 07:23 PM |
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Re: Ernst Stiegleder pre-war sporter 8x60mmJ
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Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Donuts!
D'oh!
Homer
| Aaron_Little |
| (.300 member) |
| 12/11/18 06:26 AM |
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Re: Ernst Stiegleder pre-war sporter 8x60mmJ
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I’ve had the rifle a few weeks now, lovely little thing. I had thoughts of boring it to 9.3x62, but the rifles petite nature had other ideas. The bore is in great condition and I’ve found someone who will make loads for me. It stays 8x60mmJ.
Thought I’d share some more interesting traits. Take notice the shaping of the trigger guard bow, as well as the flats filed into the action ring to accommodate a narrow forend. Stamps on the barrel have dated it at 4/33.
| xausa |
| (.400 member) |
| 12/11/18 10:19 AM |
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Re: Ernst Stiegleder pre-war sporter 8x60mmJ
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One thing that would concern me about that rifle is the depth of the dovetail cut in the receiver ring. It looks as though it extends into the locking lug recess. If so, that seems to me to be a threat to the strength of the action.
| Aaron_Little |
| (.300 member) |
| 12/11/18 12:07 PM |
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Re: Ernst Stiegleder pre-war sporter 8x60mmJ
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It’s survived this long. I do plan on using lower pressure rounds though.
| Wayne59 |
| (.400 member) |
| 12/11/18 01:55 PM |
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Re: Ernst Stiegleder pre-war sporter 8x60mmJ
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Aron if I might ash, who do you have that can find rings for these type of mounts. Nice find.
| Vladymere |
| (.300 member) |
| 12/11/18 02:50 PM |
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Re: Ernst Stiegleder pre-war sporter 8x60mmJ
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That is a very nice rifle.
The Crown over R indicates a reproofing due to a repair. I think the flats on the side of the receiver are from removing previous markings on the left side of the receiver and the right was done to balance the esthetics.
Perhaps it started life as an 8x57mm but due to laws after the Germans lost WWI military calibers where not allowed so the chamber of the original barrel was cut to a legal 8x60. Or, for some reason, the barrel was replaced with an 8x60mm which would explain the lack of any other marking on the barrel. With the chamber recut or the barrel replaced it would need reproofing and the old receiver proof mark removed from the side of the receiver and a new marking applied so that could explain the flat sides of the receiver.
I personally would not worry about the front scope base being dovetailed into the receiver ring. If it was good enough for Mauser to do on sporting rifles they built it should be okay on your rifle.
Vlad
| xausa |
| (.400 member) |
| 12/11/18 03:44 PM |
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Re: Ernst Stiegleder pre-war sporter 8x60mmJ
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I have been told that the German proof house will refuse to proof test a rifle which has been dovetailed in that fashion.
| 93x64mm |
| (.416 member) |
| 12/11/18 05:44 PM |
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Re: Ernst Stiegleder pre-war sporter 8x60mmJ
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Lovely find there Aaron!
Certainly a great little stalking rifle, hope you can find mounts for the old girl; if not then you've got a challenge to make a set!
| lancaster |
| (.470 member) |
| 12/11/18 06:38 PM |
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Re: Ernst Stiegleder pre-war sporter 8x60mmJ
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Quote:
I have been told that the German proof house will refuse to proof test a rifle which has been dovetailed in that fashion.
Suhl accept them if the dove tail don't reach the barrel thread
| kuduae |
| (.400 member) |
| 12/11/18 07:53 PM |
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Re: Ernst Stiegleder pre-war sporter 8x60mmJ
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This rifle was made on a slightly modified original Mauser, Oberndorf, commercial action pre-WW1. There ought to be Mauser serial numbers on underside of the receiver, behind the recoil lug, and on the rear wall of the magazine box. These numbers allow closer dating of the action.
It was originally proofed post 1911 by the Suhl proofhouse for the then 8x57I load with the 14.7 g = 227 gr steel jacket bullet load with 2.67 g Gewehr – Blättchen – Pulver = 41 gr (smokeless military) rifle flake powder.
After stocks of 8x57I ammo dried up after making it was prohibited by the Versailles so-called "peace treaty", it was rechambered to the civilian 8x60 and duly reproofed in Suhl April 1933 for the 12 g = 185 gr bullet 8x60 load.
| Aaron_Little |
| (.300 member) |
| 13/11/18 03:11 AM |
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Re: Ernst Stiegleder pre-war sporter 8x60mmJ
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Thank you for the information kiduae.
| Aaron_Little |
| (.300 member) |
| 13/11/18 03:27 AM |
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Re: Ernst Stiegleder pre-war sporter 8x60mmJ
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Additional stamp pictures
| lancaster |
| (.470 member) |
| 13/11/18 06:58 AM |
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Re: Ernst Stiegleder pre-war sporter 8x60mmJ
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the Steigleders were a typical gunmaker family in Suhl
I have another Steigleder made Mausert in 11,2x60 and when we were talking here about it our old master remember he was sometimes working with the last Steigleder master gunmaker in Suhl from time to time. It was in the 1950s and this Steigleder was then a very old man- over 70 - but was still working every day in his old workshop in Suhl. There are still members of the Steigleder Family living in Suhl today but no gunmaker amoung them anymore.
| kuduae |
| (.400 member) |
| 15/11/18 05:03 AM |
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Re: Ernst Stiegleder pre-war sporter 8x60mmJ
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According to the Mauser commercial serial number 29471 behind the recoil lug the action was made by the Oberndorf factory late 1909 – early 1910 as an "action only" for sale to another gunmaker. The original CROWN + crown/N proofmarks tell it was proofed using the special Spandau made 4000 atm proof powder.
| sbs470 |
| (.333 member) |
| 17/11/18 02:23 PM |
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Re: Ernst Stiegleder pre-war sporter 8x60mmJ
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I picked up a Suhl mauser at Tulsa this year.The more I see them the more I like them.
Mine was reproofed in March 1930 to 8x60s.
It has a basket weave horn butt plate and horn grip cap , set triggers,a lot of colour left on it ,checkered quarter panels on the bolt handle and a full length rib with a 4 power claw mounted hendsholt scope
The stock is in very good shape and has the raised panels,the bore is bright and shiny.
Our good friend CptCurl has handled it and he likes it so I figured it must be OK
| Rothhammer1 |
| (.400 member) |
| 18/11/18 07:14 PM |
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Re: Ernst Stiegleder pre-war sporter 8x60mmJ
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Quote:
Aron if I might ash, who do you have that can find rings for these type of mounts. Nice find.
Here: https://www.newenglandcustomgun.com/Gun_Services/Special_Scope_Mounts.asp
More:
New England Custom Gun Full Catalog