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Amazing rifle, yet another example of a great D&D Rifle.

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Wow Joel, absolutely fantastic. What a lovely rifle to have as your own especially with that Kurtz action, very nice engraving on the floor plate, very tasteful. Thanks for posting.

Waidmannsheil.

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Agreed...stunning work...

AND a nice caliber..was with some friends this weekend of which one of them was using the 6.5 Creedmore for Pronghorn...very nice and efficient cartridge.. worked very well..

Commend you on trying/using newer cartridges...they too need a home..

Ripp

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In the past, when I have commented on the size of a scope overwhelming the rifle it is mounted on, you have explained that the scope was the choice of the customer, and I have had to admit that "the customer is always right". However, in this instance, the customer is you, and I can see no possible justification in mounting a totally unnecessary Swarovski Z3 3-10x42 scope with a 42mm objective on a graceful, well designed rifle. Such as scope has its use, I suppose, on a target or varmint rifle, but on a rifle intended for mountain hunting it appears entirely out of place.

This is of course only my opinion, but for me the absolute limit of magnification is 7X (preferably 6X) on such a rifle, and in no case an objective larger than 32mm, with a mount allowing the scope to be situated as low as possible.

It is interesting for me that you talk about a preference for open sights and build a rifle appropriate for snap shooting, only to mount such a monstrosity on top of it. The scope height is clearly inappropriate for a rifle designed for iron sights.

The choice of claw mounts only exacerbates the situation, since the height of front ring only adds to the overall height of the scope, which would not be the case with a pivot or tip off mount, where the front ring could be mounted on the main tube, rather than on the bell.

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In the past, when I have commented on the size of a scope overwhelming the rifle it is mounted on, you have explained that the scope was the choice of the customer, and I have had to admit that "the customer is always right". However, in this instance, the customer is you, and I can see no possible justification in mounting a totally unnecessary Swarovski Z3 3-10x42 scope with a 42mm objective on a graceful, well designed rifle. Such as scope has its use, I suppose, on a target or varmint rifle, but on a rifle intended for mountain hunting it appears entirely out of place.

This is of course only my opinion, but for me the absolute limit of magnification is 7X (preferably 6X) on such a rifle, and in no case an objective larger than 32mm, with a mount allowing the scope to be situated as low as possible.

It is interesting for me that you talk about a preference for open sights and build a rifle appropriate for snap shooting, only to mount such a monstrosity on top of it. The scope height is clearly inappropriate for a rifle designed for iron sights.

The choice of claw mounts only exacerbates the situation, since the height of front ring only adds to the overall height of the scope, which would not be the case with a pivot or tip off mount, where the front ring could be mounted on the main tube, rather than on the bell.

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xausa,

I hear your criticisms and I respect them.
We have different points of view that relate to our past and the country in which we live and hunt, you in the USA, me in Europe.
First, the discussion you are referring to was about a Zeiss V8, a huge scope on 36mm tube that is not comparable with the Swarovski Z3, a very light powerful scope.
I'm sorry to tell you that, but we prefer to benefit from the excellent quality of the continental optics rather than being forced to use scopes made in the USA (or China) that we don't always appreciate the performances, even if they wear gold rings on front bell...
I loved the excellent 2-7x36 Kahles but it is no longer manufactured today and the last ones we had in stock are now allocated to running projects.
The Z3, either the 3-9x36 or the 3-10x42 is very light and corresponds well to the use that I do in stalking chamois in mountain.
On the other hand you don't imagine the complexity of making a claw mount, a purely European system that requires many hours of work but, when well done, is the most perfect quick detachable mount guaranteeing a rigorous return to zero.
I can't imagine how I could have decked out this rifle with a fixed or (excellent) Talley mount while maintaining the integrity of the action. The rear claw mount base is welded on the receiver bridge without alteration and the front base soldered on the barrel, sparing the harmful modification of the front ring.
Of course, we are able to build a rifle with a small very low scope and a modified bolt handle but in this case we will use a pre-64 W70 action that, unfortunately, does not exist in "kurz" version.
As for the "apparent" height of the assembly it is partly due to the slenderness of the scope tube but it allows keeping intact the Oberndorf bolt handle, even if it has been modified to be lower.
Finally, rest assured, the stock - it is one of our specialty - is well suited to both sighting systems and the weapon is very comfortable to shoot.
Thank you for your comments.

DORLEAC
www.dorleac-dorleac.com

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My apologies, I need to figure out how to post photos in this "post photobucket" era

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Are those mounts some form of modern Conetrol mounts?

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I didn't look at this thread till today, as the Creedmoors aren't usually of much interest to me. Prefer a good old 6.5x55 any day.

Joel, why a 6.5 Creedmoor over the 6.5x55? Because of action length? Or good marketing using a newer cartridge?

Absolutely lovely rifle. I really want to visit oneday, but preferably when I can also bring a deposit for an order!

I think one of these classic Dorleac rifles without open sights, would not be a Dorleac.

I sometimes comment on the excessice sized Euro scopes, but that overal 'picture' doesn't look out of place. As for the scope being too high or not, that would depend on the user and how it fits them.

Again such a lovely rifle.

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Nitrox,

The mounts are from GENTRY and the rifle is also a technical 6.5 Creedmoor built on a highly modified RM 700 titanium short action.
Indeed the 6,5x55 Swedish need a standard length action, not a kurz as the one I have used for the above Creedmoor.
I'm working on a top notch 6,5x55 on a very special Original Mauser action...be patient.

All the best.

DORLEAC
www.dorleac-dorleac.com

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I like high mounted scopes myself, although not all my rifles have them.
I like to look at the animal or target when practicing, snap the rifle to my shoulder and I am looking at the crosshairs on that animal. My head is held erect, my face not pressed down hard in to the comb just to see through the scope - cheek weld many call it.
For me, that is uncomfortable - I like to shoot standing as I walk - erect.
I agree that when shooting at really long ranges, a lower harder hold might be beneficial, however I don't need it.

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When we talk about Creedmoor we immediately think of a technical rifle made of high-tech materials, stainless steel, titanium, carbon, kevlar, etc.
I am well placed to know this as I use such a “tool” to hunt in my beloved mountains.
I have been interested in this cartridge since its inception and I can legitimately say that in France I was a forerunner, the majority of gunsmiths preferring to stick to the calibers that have proved their worth!
I had a lot of success and satisfaction hunting with the 6,5 Creedmoor and then I considered building a purely classic rifle for my personal use in this caliber.
I had set aside an Original Mauser “Kurz” receiver, steel in the white and never used ... but lacking the bolt and all the ancillaries.
To replace the missing bolt I used a rough draft from FZH that required a lot of adjustment work but allowed me to benefit from a small diameter firing pin hole.
All the other parts were made from various largely modified period elements that were on hand.
I took advantage of a 6.5x55 1/8" twist match quality barrel blank that I profiled to my taste before chambering it for the 6.5 Creedmoor.
I attach great importance to the metallic sights, which is why this rifle benefits from a combined moon sight at the front and a perfectly regulated rear sight in order to favor the snap shooting I like.
The wood appears much better after its shaping than in blank form and naturally the stock was fashioned very classically Dorleac style.
The scope is a Swarovski Z3 3-10x42 fitted on hand made claw mount, but the most important thing about this rifle, mine now, is its surprising accuracy, a true one holer printing cloverleaves all the day with 143 grains ELD-X…!

DORLEAC
www.dorleac-dorleac.com

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Absolutely gobsmacking rifle...

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I think the rifle is gorgeous. I have noticed that Europeans tend to have a "higher faced" shooting position and I have to admit to having no issue with my cheek riding higher on the comb to align with a scope.

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Here's how Mauser did it circa 1939:

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I think the rifle is gorgeous. I have noticed that Europeans tend to have a "higher faced" shooting position and I have to admit to having no issue with my cheek riding higher on the comb to align with a scope.

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Here's how Mauser did it circa 1939:

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Waidmannsheil, I meet Swarovski people at Nuremberg IWA next March. They have quality problems with the scopes assembled in USA but I don't think they will stop the Z3 range as they need that 1" tube range of optics for the US and Australian market. Will keep you informed.

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You will note that the Mauser mount has provision for a "see through" feature, which allows the use of iron sights without removing the scope. This was in the day when scopes were considered unreliable additions to the sighting system and preference was given to mounts which allowed unimpeded access to the traditional sighting system. This is no longer the case, and there is no need to compromise stock design to give preference to one system over the other.

Back in the 1930's Griffin & Howe had the same system, with the scope mounted high enough to allow access to iron sights, even with the scope mounted.

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My M1910 Mannlicher Schoenauer has see through claw mounts.

They are excellent for 'snap shooting' as, with the scope mounted, one has the instant option of using the scope (longer shots at slow or stationary targets) or open sights for small fast things. The 'cheek meld' of the pre WW2 MS stock offers an instant sight picture through the iron sights when the rifle is brought to battery.

The Stoeger Catalog page reproduced in my previous post recommends that those with Mauser rifles that were not factory equipped with a scope may use the "special Stoeger Side Mount and Two Piece Mount illustrated and described in this catalog on pages 238 and 245."

The mount shown on page 238 is in the 'high' European style (so much that it generously clears the bolt mounted peep sight shown), the mount on page 245 is considerably lower and does not provide a 'see through' view of the iron sights when mounted.

It seems that, even in 1939, shooters of either preference could be readily accommodated.

From page 238 (1939 Stoeger):


And page 245:

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The thing with open sights is you have that unobstructed field of view that lets you see the big picture as well as the sights.

Much prefer to use the claw mounts and just take it off. Actually prefer no mounts at all.

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Graticules, don't hear that a lot these days. 1,2 or 3 for me.

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