Mike_Bailey
(.400 member)
01/12/15 12:51 AM
bargain ?

I am an agent for Holts if they need to export anything back to the UK but I am putting this up for your interest. I have no commercial interest. I saw this going through the catalogue today and at its΄ estimate it seems good value to me. Kuduae, your thoughts ?

http://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/asp...3&saletype=


Mike_Bailey
(.400 member)
01/12/15 01:14 AM
Re: bargain ?

and another one !! am I missing something ??

http://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/asp...6&saletype=


Igorrock
(.400 member)
01/12/15 06:23 AM
Re: bargain ?

I think they tendentiously under estimated their prices to get more people to bid.

casper50
(.400 member)
01/12/15 09:43 AM
Re: bargain ?

Their low estimate is the reserve. After the auction when the unsold lots go on sale it's always for the low estimate.

NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
01/12/15 05:05 PM
Re: bargain ?

A$1500 t0 A$1900 is a realistic price in my opinion. Smetimes these sell for way too high prices.

The standard I aim for to buy is about $1600. Pretty sure to get a very good condition rifle for about that price. The range above would not be a bad price though.

In Australia have seen them go to $A2500 which IMO is ridiculous. And even quoted as high as $3500.

A friend once told me, look to Austria and Germany where rifles which have not shot much even if 90 years old can be had for a good price.

Anyone want to help me find one?! Full wood carbine though. No ridiculously large scope either.

I do like the Gibbs in one of the links.


Igorrock
(.400 member)
01/12/15 06:43 PM
Re: bargain ?

Quote:

A friend once told me, look to Austria and Germany where rifles which have not shot much even if 90 years old can be had for a good price.


I have bought one from Germany and one from Austria. Both were priced very nice but most whose I have seen for sale in Austria were priced quite high.

kuduae
(.400 member)
01/12/15 11:39 PM
Re: bargain ?

As Mike Bailey asked: From experience I made it a habit, never to assess any gun I did not handle myself. Here I have to go by the photos and desriptions only, so I will remain vague.
The first Mannlicher-Schoenauer is a Steyr factory take down, in fact detachable stock, variant of the M1903. A 1929 Steyr catalog called this the "English Sporting Pattern". Standard features: Single trigger, hand detachable half stock, optional peep sight to hand of stock. The modern Swarovski scope was obviously mounted quite recently, using a hand-made mount. It is apparently a side swing mount, the rear base design inspired by the 1960s Steyr factory scope mount offering. I have seen many more elegant mount systems on M-Sch rifles.
The G.Gibbs Mannlicher – Schoenauer # B5433 is a typical product of that gunmaker. Gibbs then imported Mannlichers and Mannlicher – Schoenauers from the Steyr military production and sporterized them to various degrees. Steyr started to offer their own sporters in 1905 only. The rifle closely resembles my own Gibbs sporter # B4842, dated 1905. The bolt handle was replaced on mine. On Holt's one someone merely ground the stem of the military handle to clear the scope.



Even the modern aftermarket German EAW side mount is the same. Forget the 1970s – 80s Jap made "Kassnar" scope. It adds nothing to the "value" of the rifle. The Gibbs takedown system works like this: You need screwdrivers, or rather turnscrews, for takedown. First remove the screw holding foreend to barrel. Take off foreend. Turn out the front connecting screw. This goes into a recess in the barrel threads and keeps the barrel from turning. Now you can turn the barrel out of the receiver. This system is fine with open sights that are fixed on the barrel, but as the barrel threading and the locking front connecting screw develop some looseness soon, it is less than ideal in combination with a scope mounted on the receiver. On my rifle I blocked the takedown feature with permanent Locktite.
Now to the estimates: British pounds Sterling 700.- to 900.- are to be understood + buyer's premium + VAT. So it's really Lbs 910.- to 1170.-, according to Holt's own "Total Price Calculator". That would be Euro 1300.- to 1670.-, without shipping costs.
Here in Germany half stocked Mannlicher-Schoenauers were and are less popular than full-stocked Stutzens. On German egun internet auctions pre-war M-Sch rifles usually go for about Euro 450.- to 800.-, depending on condition, German scope and claw mount. Full stock Stutzens are a bit more expensive, 500.- to 1200.-, depending on chambering, scope, mount and condition again. You may add some hundred for the G.Gibbs address on the second rifle.
So Holt's estimates don't seem to be exactly "bargains" to me, but the American and Australian market is very much different from the German one. These are auctions, so I hope someone will save the photos and post the end results.


kuduae
(.400 member)
02/12/15 02:13 AM
Re: bargain ?

Some Mannlicher – Schoenauers currently on auction in Germany.There is no "buyer's premium". Note: there are no bids on anything over Euro 800.-
Despite the "GK" description, this is a M1903 in 6.5x54. The Hensoldt "Dural – Dialytan" scopes appeared 1934:
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=5680393
Late 1960s "Magnum" rifle in 6.5x68
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=5656771
post-war M1950 in 6.5x54 with detachable cheekpiece
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=5691867
M1908 in 8x56
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=5630100
rifle GK in 6,5x57
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=5690939
some GKs in 7x64
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=5678076
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=5288209
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=5540264
overoptimistic!
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=5694796
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=5694814
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=5551227
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=5599407
M1950 in 7x64
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=5418788
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=5681278
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=5541389


Mike_Bailey
(.400 member)
02/12/15 06:57 PM
Re: bargain ?

Thanks Kuduae, guess I΄m wrong !! Those commisions certainly add up. best

DarylS
(.700 member)
03/12/15 03:51 AM
Re: bargain ?

Nice rifles!

fsrmg1
(.300 member)
11/12/15 10:47 AM
Re: bargain ?

Looks like none of them went easily.

Lot 1100 - Steyr; TD £800
Lot 1102 - Stutzen; £1100
Lot 1128 - Gibbs TD; £1500


kuduae
(.400 member)
13/12/15 09:37 PM
Re: bargain ?

Despite the "GK" description, this is a M1903 in 6.5x54. The Hensoldt "Dural – Dialytan" scopes appeared 1934:
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=5680393
Went for Euro 671.- + shipping.


fsrmg1
(.300 member)
22/12/15 11:33 AM
Re: bargain ?

Just had another look and Lot 1102 is now showing that it went for £1200. Looks like only Lot 1100 went for a half decent price.

How much would the respective scopes and mounting systems cost to put on vs added value to the rifles?


fsrmg1
(.300 member)
30/12/15 11:29 AM
Re: bargain ?

Looks like Holts is now selling all the stuff that was passed in via sealed bid. I noticed that there were a few very nice Steyrs present, but the one that stood out to me was lot 3816, a Englush Sporter pattern model 1910 Take Down 9.5x57 MS est £300-£500. Now how did that sleeper get by?

http://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/asp...0&saletype=



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