lancaster
(.470 member)
27/08/11 05:02 AM
another M 88 sporter for the archive

a Suhl made M 88 sporter in 8x57 marked with "Paul Mossiers Breslau", octagonal barrel














http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=3457990

found Paul Mossiers in the 1914 Teschner Collath dealer's list


lancaster
(.470 member)
28/08/11 07:34 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

see it just now that Paul Mossiers in Breslau Junkernstr.20 is alles listed in Ellenbr scan
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=188742&Main=188502#Post188742



lancaster
(.470 member)
04/09/11 05:16 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

there isn't a rifle more teutonic and less british then a fine M 88
sporter and you see that the guy at holts was not realy familar with this:

MUN. & WAFFENFABR SOMMERDA
A 7.9mm BOLT-MAGAZINE SPORTING RIFLE, serial no. 37531,
24in. octagonal to round nitro barrel with ramp-mounted blade
fore-sight, rear-sight of one standing and one folding leaf, fitted with
a 6x42 telescopic sight in quickly-detachable mounts, set triggers,
retaining some original colour-hardening and finish, semi-pistolgrip
stock (cracked and pinned at head) with schnabel fore-end tip,
cheekpiece, ammunition trap, leather sling, 14 1/4in. pull
Estimate £300-500



http://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/asp...no=&image=0

this one is a M 88 , the caliber will be the 8x57 I and the ammunition trap is a clip trap. you can remove the ammunition only on the top of the magazin.
Munition und Waffenfabrik Sömmerda AG is a interesting detail. I dont know that this name was used before the dead of Franz von Dreyse in 1894. when Rheinmetall bought the former Dreyse factory in 1901 it was becoming Rheinmetall Sömmerda( you will find collector cartridges with the "RMS" headstamp). Heinrich Ehrhardt, the founder of Rheinmetall had learned the gun business once from Nikolaus von Dreyse, the inventor of the brecch loading rifle.
this M 88 looks like a Suhl made sporter but the Dreyse factory in Sömmerda is close enough to the Suhl area that I dont see a problem why they dont have made this also. style and quality of Dreyse sporting rifles is very close to other Suhl rifles and everything I have seen from Dreyse was allways of top quality.


mehulkamdar
(.416 member)
04/09/11 08:11 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Very nice, Lancaster, you find some amazing and rare rifles!

Thanks for sharing pictures and good hunting!


lancaster
(.470 member)
06/11/11 05:45 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

very nice condition
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=193121&Main=193078#Post193121













lancaster
(.470 member)
29/11/11 06:23 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

a H. Scherping Hofbüchsenmacher Hannover, Kal. 8x57I with englisch stock and horn pistol grib. two holes on the left side of the receive so there was probably a scope mount once. with a bullet hole on the sideand I wonder what happen.














http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=3588376


lancaster
(.470 member)
29/11/11 06:29 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Chr. Schilling Suhl Kal. 8x57I
engravings silver, peep sight













http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=3589373


Dr_Deer
(.300 member)
30/11/11 09:41 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Quote:

a H. Scherping Hofbüchsenmacher Hannover, Kal. 8x57I with englisch stock and horn pistol grib. two holes on the left side of the receive so there was probably a scope mount once. with a bullet hole on the sideand I wonder what happen.




A bullet hole and a broken trigger? Looks as if it had an interesting history


lancaster
(.470 member)
09/12/11 03:41 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Eduard Kettner Köln Mod. 88 in 9x57 Mauser
scope is a Hensoldt Duralyt 6x on claw mount















http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=3604368

very nice


lancaster
(.470 member)
17/12/11 01:17 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Joh.Peter Longo Innsbruck Modell 88

8x57 I, old scope on claw mount

no doubt made for Peterlongo in Suhl - see the name on the left side of the receiver















http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=3620956


lancaster
(.470 member)
19/12/11 12:13 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

plain basic model in 8x57I but full lenght octagonal barrel















http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=3612334


lancaster
(.470 member)
30/12/11 12:04 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Chr. Schilling, Suhl M 88 8x57I changed to 9x57 from Henneberger in 1997




http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=2453628


lancaster
(.470 member)
14/01/12 03:16 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

sporting rifle in 8x57I without a name but probably Schilling or Haenel made.
the bolt handle looks similar to the "Munition und Waffenfabrik Sömmerda" named rifle above.
"Böhlerstahl" barrel













http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=3666090


kuduae
(.400 member)
16/01/12 07:15 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Here is mine: 8x57I (.318"), half-octagon ribbed barrel, original scope mount. Unmarked as to maker. Came my way in a sorry, neglected shape. Stock partially split, toe of butt broken off, steel buttplate bent, original 2 1/2x scope a ruin, missing ocular bell and reticle. I glued, crossbolted, pinned and epoxy bedded the stock, straightened the buttplate, put an old 4x Hensoldt scope in the original rings and slightly refinished the stock.







chapmen
(.300 member)
18/01/12 04:11 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Quote:

see it just now that Paul Mossiers in Breslau Junkernstr.20




just found this, Mrs. Gabriel, Breslau , Holder of the firm Paul Mossiers, 1908, so the firm gets an face......


lancaster
(.470 member)
18/01/12 06:53 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

intersting and unusual find

this was planned to collect so many M 88 as possible because if we compare the mass of all this different rifle we will find the similaritys.
till now we only see two names coming up again and again: V.C. Schilling and C.G.Haenel in Suhl
I ask myself if they were the only firms making hunting rifles and if any other name is only a retailer. Schilling and Haenel had have the complete machinery and were making carbine's for the military till the Karabiner 98 was coming in place. I was a little bit surpriced Haenel make M 88 military carbines as late as 1907 here in 7x57 for mexico




http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?243067-C-G-Haenel-1907-Kar-88-in-7mm

possible that this firms have sold actions to other gunmakers in the Suhl/Zella Mehlis. only the name Waffen- und Munitionsfabrik Sömmerda on one of the sporters above is another story. I dont know if they also making carbines for the german militay before, possible it is. the former Dreyse factory was capable of doing anything in the gun business.


lancaster
(.470 member)
28/03/12 11:25 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

again Heinrich Scherping/Hanover

8x57 I full lenght octagonal barrel, double trigger, colour cases action, flip up peep sight
front sight is damaged






http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=3789405


Sarg
(.400 member)
28/03/12 11:47 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Would this be the same one from last year ?

Has the same hole in the stock !


lancaster
(.470 member)
29/03/12 01:39 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

of course yes, must have been sleeping
at least the second trigger is repaired


lancaster
(.470 member)
21/04/12 12:30 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

a M 88 sporter in 8x57I in the upcoming Widforss spring auction, full length octagonal barrel
stock is having a lot of drob like a german Schützen rifle. "Sven Hydén" on the rifle - must have been the swedish dealer.
http://widforss.chiaro.mrfriday.com/?p=vapenauktion&auktion=&auktion=62&visa=Kulgev%E4r




lancaster
(.470 member)
15/06/12 01:43 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=3891742

M88 in 8x57I with unusual 55,5cm long hexagonal barrel, double set trigger and claw mount(scope is lost)
modern recoil pad but very nice wood













texan72
(.275 member)
15/06/12 01:53 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Ugh yet another rifle now added to list of stuff to have.... very nice rifles and info

lancaster
(.470 member)
15/06/12 03:01 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

sure, you must love this! its the bolt action rifle that looks most like your beloved Remington Model 8

texan72
(.275 member)
16/06/12 04:38 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Yes indeed even the military 88 version has the barrel shroud like the model 8 makes you wonder
if John Browning had his hands on one of these, I always figured he got the 1895 winchester,and model 8 inline mag idea from a Mosin nagant but maybe it was a 88? Who knows.....never the less great looking rifles thanks for posting


lancaster
(.470 member)
01/07/12 07:29 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

a very plain basic rifle, probably in this case realy a sporterised military rifle but this was done in Suhl /Zella-Mehlis
the seller claim its in 8x57IS so rebored later from original 8x57I













http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=3898128&PHPSESSID=1c48372950c373727e35fa1e0204049c


458Win
(.333 member)
02/07/12 05:55 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Here is another 8mm Carbine owned and carried for 25 years by famous Kodiak Alaskan Bear guide Bill Pinnell

Notice where he whittled the forend to make it a handy walking staff



JDL
(.300 member)
02/07/12 10:14 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Phil, that rifle just got to have interesting stories! Is it standard military with the exception of the whittling? I can't make out the author of the book and I know I have to read it.

458Win
(.333 member)
02/07/12 12:40 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Marvin Clark is the author of the book. there are two volumes of them and both are good reads




The rifle is interesting in that it is an early 1890 version of the pattern 88 yet the receiver is stamped for the S bullet


NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
03/07/12 01:32 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Quote:

Here is another 8mm Carbine owned and carried for 25 years by famous Kodiak Alaskan Bear guide Bill Pinnell

Notice where he whittled the forend to make it a handy walking staff






No doubt a handy saddle scabbard carbine.


lancaster
(.470 member)
03/07/12 01:42 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

interesting rifle but dont have the rear sight anymore. is there a small peep sight on the bolt?

458Win
(.333 member)
03/07/12 02:24 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Real Alaskan guides don't need sights










lancaster
(.470 member)
04/07/12 04:05 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

the short carbine makes a very handy rifle, indeed

do you know what for ammo he was using on angry bears? must have been handloads because american made 8x57 is weak compared with german full power cartridges.
8x57 brennecke tig will deal with every bear but may be hard to find in alaska.


NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
04/07/12 08:15 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Quote:

the short carbine makes a very handy rifle, indeed




I imagine the carbine was actually designed for cavalry troops anyway.


lancaster
(.470 member)
23/07/12 10:48 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

again a 8x57 I octagonal to round barrel with a Dr Walter Gerard /Carlottenburg 3x on claw mount






http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=3944828



something I had forgot

a finnish Sako made sporter in 6,5x54 Kurz Mauser
probably made after WW 2



DarylS
(.700 member)
23/07/12 11:35 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

An interesting 'find', Phil.

lancaster
(.470 member)
24/07/12 02:44 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

believe it or not, it was listed and in the end sold (to my knowledge) for 180 euro

lancaster
(.470 member)
24/08/12 03:46 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

full lenght octagonal barrel, double set trigger
the target was shot with 4 rounds of this older Sellier&Bellot 8x57I at 100 meter with iron sight's














http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=3992788


lancaster
(.470 member)
14/09/12 12:55 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

8x57I with octagonal barrel, double set trigger
gunmaker/dealer " W. Kustermann aus Colmar" on the barrel











giving an impression how the colour case looks when new


http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=3962503


JDL
(.300 member)
14/09/12 01:38 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

That old rifle has been well taken care over the years! Love the case colors.

lancaster
(.470 member)
15/11/12 05:52 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Paul Mossiers Model 88 Custom 8mm S Bore.323 The action on this rifle is clean with strong case colour, cross hatched forward ring, extends on to barrel and also at rear of bolt, all original German proofs with no reproof, double set trigger, strong original blue on magazine/ floor plate. The barrel is a full length octagonal with a three quarter length integral rib, top of rib and barrel are hand filed and very attractive. We have cerrosafed the chamber and barrel to find it is a standard .323 diameter, S bore for readily available 8MM Mauser ammunition. The stock is a pistol grip with good finish and chequering, engraved crest plate, case coloured steel butt,14" lop, 7lbs 13oz. The scope is a steel tub with brass fittings that is adjustable and mounted on original quick detach claw mounts, scope is period correct to the rifle and appears to be original.
http://www.gunsinternational.com/Paul-Mossiers-Model-88-Custom-8mm-S-Bore-323.cfm?gun_id=100296653









lancaster
(.470 member)
15/11/12 05:57 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

G.HAMACHER DÜSSELDORF 9X57 Mauser


19 1/2" OCTAGON BARREL WITH A SOLID STANDING FULL LENGTH FILE CUT RIB AND A 2 LEAF EXPRESS SIGHT DOUBLE SET TRIGGER BULLET ENGRAVED BULLET TRAP EXTENSIVE ENGRAVING EXCELLENT CONDITION
http://www.gunsinternational.com/G-HAMACHER-DUSSELDORF-PRE-WAR-MAUSER-9X57.cfm?gun_id=100287195













lancaster
(.470 member)
05/02/13 03:37 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

a Stutzen I have not seen before
8x57I

http://www.waffengebraucht.at/node/197356


lancaster
(.470 member)
25/02/13 07:15 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

remarkable because its in 8x60 - the 8x60 with I bore not the today more common 8x60S. first M 88 sporter I have seen with this chamber. seller have the opinion the magazin box is nickel plated.
sorry for the bad pics





http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=4287856#img


kuduae
(.400 member)
25/02/13 07:57 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Quote:

remarkable because its in 8x60



Most likely rechambered during the 1920s when the 8x57 cartridge was outlawed by the post-WW1 "Versailles Peace Treaty". The 8x60 was only then designed to replace the unavailable "military" 8x57 cartridge.


lancaster
(.470 member)
20/03/13 06:48 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

for sale in the united states, basic model by Schilling or Haenel and proably in 8x57I
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=332647566
miss the rear base for the claw mount


















lancaster
(.470 member)
01/04/13 11:40 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

a V.C.Schilling 8x57I
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=334542187
the "Suhl Prussia" engraving on the barrel indicate imho a rifle make for export into the united states




















lancaster
(.470 member)
07/04/13 11:48 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

short M 88 carbine with Zeiss Ziel $ on claw mount, double set triggers and diopter by Emil Bartsch in Suhl http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=4326682&PHPSESSID=1c48372950c373727e35fa1e0204049c
unfortunately deactivated












and here another also deaktivated M 88 stutzen
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=4347944&PHPSESSID=1c48372950c373727e35fa1e0204049c
barrel drilled and welded but action mostly intact, only firing pin welded
such rifles making nice fun project's, easy to buy and shipment without problems.
you only need a new barrel















lancaster
(.470 member)
21/04/13 01:34 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

sold by "Schwartz Hannover" 8x57I serial number 17150
59 cm long octagonal barrel, double set trigger and Zeiss Ziel 6 on claw mount


http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=4366406


Caprivi
(.375 member)
22/04/13 01:06 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

You have been busy Lancaster, all very nice. Especially like the Carbine with Zeiss on board. Would be a joy to stalk thru the Black with that.

lancaster
(.470 member)
12/05/13 02:34 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive



Schilling made carbine 8x57I(?) for sale in sweden
http://auctionet.com/sv/61486-gevar-tysk.../images#image_1


lancaster
(.470 member)
10/10/13 12:18 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

8x57I with a Gerard B3x on claw mount, 55 cm long barrel and sold by "Jacob Sackreuter Frankfurt A/M"









http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=4601184


lancaster
(.470 member)
16/11/13 06:56 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

8x57I with a octagonal barrel and stock for a lefty




http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=4647651


lancaster
(.470 member)
12/04/14 01:36 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

for sale In Walter Borg´s auction Stockholm in 13.4.2014:
http://www.walterborg.se/auktion/index.html


Imman Meffert Suhl, modell 88, cal. 8x57




C.R Schilling, modell 88, cal. 8x57





C.R Schilling- Suhl, modell 88, cal. 8x57


lancaster
(.470 member)
01/05/14 05:28 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

for sale by Bisgaard&Nielsen in Denmark

offered as a 8x57IS what would be very unusual when original, probably enlarge to the S caliber after WW 2












http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=4900199


rpeck
()
05/05/14 03:55 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Yesterday I bought this Schilling M-88 Sporter for $450 (US) at a small local gunshow. It seemed a good price. The rifle is in good (used but not abused) condition and will only need a good cleaning and oiling. The bore is in good shootable condition. It has an integral front sight ramp and a rear sight with one standing and one folding leaf (still very tight). The bolt, barrel and action are all marked with matching serial numbers (28686) and the various small pieces are marked with the last two numbers of this serial number. Also, the barrel , bolt and action are marked with yet another serial number (5738). The barrel right in front of the action is marked "KRUPP STEEL". I don't understand why this is in English? Why not "STAHL"? Is this a rifle intended for the English market? In front of the rear sight it is marked "V (Y?) CHR. SCHILLING-SUHL-PRUSSIA". Is there away to date this rifle from the various stamped numbers under the stock? I don't know what any of the stamped numbers, etc. mean.

I have a collection of Mannlicher-Schoenaer and other fullstock rifles but I know very little about these 88 sporters.














kuduae
(.400 member)
05/05/14 06:16 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Rpeck, your rifle was certainly made for export either to the USA or Canada, as the Words “Steel” and “Prussia” are English. Before WW1 such M88 actioned hunting rifles were often exported to America, where they were commonly called “Haenel Mannlichers” after the best known Suhl maker. Known V.C.Schilling representatives in the USA were Pacific Arms Corporation, San Francisco and Schoverling, Daly & Gales, New York.


As the gauge number 172,28 shows, your rifle was proofed in Suhl before April 1912. 172.28 stands for a bore/land (NOT groove or bullet!) diameter between 7.62 – 7.87mm = .300 - .310”, correct for an 8mmI, .318” bullet, barrel. The CROWN-crown/N marks show it was proofed using the special smokeless “4000 atm proof powder”after the special 1893 proof rule. It was proofed for a service charge of 2.67 gramm GewehrBlättchenPulver/StahlmantelGeschoss = 41.2 gr (military)rifle flake powder and a steel jacketed bullet. The other marks under the barrel are factory internal marks. The SS may stand for a barrelmaker(maybe Stephan Schilling?) who supplied both Schilling and Haenel with the half-octagon ribbed sporter barrels to fit the M88 actions.


lancaster
(.470 member)
05/05/14 05:34 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

nice rifle and you pay a common market price, not to much

lancaster
(.470 member)
09/05/14 10:30 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

igorrock see a M 88 for sale in Finnland










http://www.huuto.net/kohteet/hieno-vanha-metsastyskivaari-82-x-57js/312152622
8x57IS, changed for the common S claiber after WW 2 I would say to hold the gun still in action. 340 euro looks like a good deal!

what I never see before is the stock magazine not for single cartridges but for the mannlicher clip




if you looking for a sporter project here is a barreled action in 30 06(?) for sale
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=4870005







lancaster
(.470 member)
11/05/14 01:48 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

this is in auction in sweden
https://auctionet.com/sv/137733-139-kulg.../images#image_1



octagonal barrel in 8x57I


Ash
(.400 member)
11/05/14 12:15 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Anyone got a pic of the Haenel automatic rifle???

lancaster
(.470 member)
11/05/14 06:22 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

must say I have seen pics of the Haenel automatic once but dont have it, maybe Kuduae can help here

rpeck
()
25/06/14 07:47 AM
M-88 Lock Time

I was out at a rifle range this morning with the Schilling M-88 Sporter. The "Lock Time", the delay between pulling the (set) trigger and the actual combustion, seemed excessive. I have never fired an M-88 before, so I have nothing to compare it to. Is this typical or is it possible that my slightly antique ammunition possibly at fault? On the other hand, it proved to be a reasonably accurate rifle and that is always good.

kuduae
(.400 member)
25/06/14 06:04 PM
Re: M-88 Lock Time

As the Mannlicher and Mannlicher-Schoenauer bolts are essentially the same as the M88 one, they all share a slightly slower lock time, compared to a M98 Mauser. This is because a heavy cocking piece and the safety are hung on the firing pin. This markedly increases the mass that has to be accelerated by the mainspring. A double set Trigger always increases locktime too. This locktime increase is usually hardly noticable, so I suspect a weakened mainspring. Locktime may also be slowed down by old, hardened grease/oil inside the bolt or the trigger assembly. So first you should disassemble your rifle to clean and reoil all action parts.

rpeck
()
25/06/14 10:20 PM
Re: M-88 Lock Time

I just wanted to know if the lock time should be slow compared to a M-S. It is noticeably slower than any of my Mannlicher-Schoenauer rifles. The first thing I did when I bought this rifle was to completely disassemeble and clean it, but I could have missed a few things. I am not sure, but I may not have completely disassembled the bolt. I'll take it apart again and have a look. If its a weak mainspring...I have plenty of spare springs I can experiment with.

However, it was very satisfying to find out that it is an accurate rifle, particularly given the slow lock time. So it will be well worth taking the time to correct this minor fault.

Thank you for your advice.


lancaster
(.470 member)
26/06/14 04:26 AM
Re: M-88 Lock Time

did you look into the bolt there is not dirt or old grease?

rpeck
()
29/06/14 10:12 PM
Re: M-88 Lock Time

I cleaned it again...when dry firing it seems fine...It must be the ancient ammo ..What some call a "hang fire".

lancaster
(.470 member)
01/08/14 09:31 PM
Re: M-88 Lock Time

interesting pics showing the M 88


frontline use of the M 88 in the great war




16.4.1938, three great bustards hunted in rumania



lancaster
(.470 member)
14/08/14 04:31 PM
Re: M-88 Lock Time

a C.G.Haenel Suhl Germany in 8x57 probably made for export into the united states









Front sight with forward blade up.



And with rear blade up.


the rare floor plate trap door indicate a better gun



its not allways Krupp Laufstahl, here with an austrian Boehlerstahl barrel


















Kammerherren
(.224 member)
24/10/14 03:07 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

I got a package today, finally, after several month of delay by the Norwegian postal service..... Anyway, this is a nice M88 sporter I got at an auction this summer. The caliber is supposed to be 8x57I, which I believe is correct. The octagonal barrel looks to be full length and there are double set triggers. The colour case hardening on the action and the bolt is just amazing. I'm not that into colour case hardening so I can’t tell if this is the original or not, but the rest of the rifle is in very good condition as well, so I don’t think the rifle have been used that much. As you can see in the first picture, the former owner shot seven moose with it. (Most likely moose anway). I haven’t removed the wood yet, so I don’t know what kind of markings I will find on the underside of the barrel, but I will get to that later. The serial number is 16755, and I find 55 on the bolt as well. The only place this full serial number is visual is at the steel butt plate. So far I have no idea when or where this is produced or by who. Since there are no markings on either barrel or action that indicate who might have produced it I believe it will be hard to tell for sure. Perhaps I will find something interesting when I remove the wood, but I doubt it. Anyway, I am very happy with this new addition to the collection.

















lancaster
(.470 member)
24/10/14 04:15 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

to me everything on this fine rifle looks original
suspect its in 8x57I? you better made a chamber cast and slug the barrel. your rifle was made in Suhl between 1900 and 1914 maybe by Haenel or Schilling.
did you load 8x57I ammo? I have used the 8x57IS RCBS die set just resize the case without the deccaping rod which hold the neck sizer. this give the case an undersized neck and hold the .318 bullet very fine in the end.


Kammerherren
(.224 member)
24/10/14 07:05 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Lancaster, I hope you are right regarding the colour case.

I do load for a lot of different guns, but I also collect guns, that means I don't shoot with everything I have. This M88 is not a shooter to me, it's a collectable. I'm 100% sure it would be a good shooter, but I don't bother buying anoter die set just for fun. I already have to many die sets lying around that I rearly use.


lancaster
(.470 member)
29/11/14 04:59 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

C.G.Haenel in 8x57 J SN 4162 sold in Sweden
http://www.walterborg.se/auktion/#/



http://www.walterborg.se/auktion/#/


lancaster
(.470 member)
01/12/14 05:42 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

8x57I without name but octogonal barrel, SN 23134
sold in sweden last spring http://www.walterborg.se/auktion/#/



8x57I again without a name but also octogonal barrel
sold in sweden last year http://www.walterborg.se/auktion/#/


C.G.Haenel in 8x57, SN 6680


http://www.walterborg.se/auktion/#/


lancaster
(.470 member)
11/02/15 10:53 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

a Schilling 8x57, seller say its 8x57IS so maybe rebored for S caliber
Ajack scope on claw mount http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=5311000
engraved with silver













lancaster
(.470 member)
21/03/15 12:50 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

8x57I sold once by Brennecke /Leipzig SN 25080
http://auctions.springer-vienna.com/de/w...;currentpos=153
Kahles 4S2 on claw mount


Ash
(.400 member)
10/04/15 12:19 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Borrowed from another forum.

"Here is a rifle marked Nowatny of Prague. I believe it was manufactured by Haenel and sold to Nowatny, a retailer, though there are no Haenel markings on it, even under the woodline.

Markings indicate that it was originaly in 8MM. It is now in .35 Whelen but the groove diameter is .354" which make me think that the bore was worn out and then rebored in Germany or Austria to 9x57, brought to the US where 9x57 ammo would have been difficult to obtain so rechambered to .35 Whelen.

The peep sight is not meant to be a peep sight as we are accustomed to them but is used in conjunction with the express sight and front sight to sharpen the focus of the iron sights as we today use the little diopters that stick on our glasses in competition shooting. I wonder if the Lyman sights mounted on These Haenels that have iron sights as well are for the same reason.

The stock has been refinished several times and the sling mounts have been located in two other places on the stock previously.
Vlad"


















tinker
(.416 member)
10/04/15 01:36 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Drool.

lancaster
(.470 member)
20/07/15 03:54 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Suhl made 8x57I , sold by Gebrüder Kellner /Wien
http://archives.collectorsfirearms.com/?category=905&category=&product=al2112













8x57I , on top of rib marked "L. Bavell, Regensburg"
http://archives.collectorsfirearms.com/?category=905&page=4&category=&product=al2746




















"German Sporting 10.8 x 49 caliber rifle manufactured by Haenel in Suhl. Made on a model ‘88 commission rifle action. Beautiful engraving and set triggers. Excellent condition."
http://archives.collectorsfirearms.com/?category=905&page=4&category=&product=al2119

have no idea about the 10,8x49




















lancaster
(.470 member)
09/08/15 02:47 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

M 88 in 8x57I with "FR. DOLSCHEK, LEOBEN' - on the barrel, Fr. Dolschek is know between 1900 and 1920 in Leoben /Austria, German and austrian proof(Ferlach)





the action with Edelweiss engravings, very unique on a M 88



the Edelweiss is the symbol of the mountain hunter





http://www.dorotheum.com/auktionen/aukti...ller.html?img=2


lancaster
(.470 member)
01/11/15 03:16 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Paul Mossiers /Breslau 8x57 with S bore .323

http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100296653









this plain 8mm had probably a new made stock
http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100525686





















NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
01/11/15 03:36 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Quote:

the Edelweiss is the symbol of the mountain hunter





http://www.dorotheum.com/auktionen/aukti...ller.html?img=2




And it grows in some steep 'meadows' from the photo.


lancaster
(.470 member)
04/01/16 03:41 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

8x57I http://stiegele.weebly.com/offers.html









casper50
(.400 member)
04/01/16 04:49 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

I don't think straight up and down qualifies as a medow. lol

lancaster
(.470 member)
19/03/16 03:45 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

in the next hermann historica auction
8x57I SN 20570



lancaster
(.470 member)
07/07/16 04:37 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

again an unmarked 8x57I made by Schilling or Haenel
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?535305-M88-Commission-Sporter&p=4793705#post4793705






















I hope one day I will find the time to sort the Schiling and Haenel out by the SN


if you compare this classic stock design with another new stocked 8x57I SN 23102 https://auctionet.com/sv/278509-kulgevar.../images#image_1 you wonder how deep the stockmaker are sunk in the decades between


a 8x57I C.G. Haenel Suhl Germany made for export into the united states
SN looks like 6124

https://www.gunsamerica.com/918708304/Ma...uhl-Germany.htm



























8x57I C.G. Haenel http://www.gunbroker.com/item/569285369
































C.G.Haenel , caliber is given as 8x57IR what would be a real surprise for me, must be wrong!
SN looks like 12296
http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100693107



























carbine sporter in 8x57I http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100651485
























lancaster
(.470 member)
02/10/16 06:37 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

again a nameless 8x57I SN 20570
http://www.hermann-historica.de/db2_de/aktuelle-auktion-2.html



2152hq
(.300 member)
02/10/16 12:53 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

I have to drag my two 88 sporters out. I don't think they've seen the light of day in 15 yrs.

I have two of the Haenel 'New Model' Mannlichers also. Kind of a mix of 88 and 98 features but I do like them, One in 9x57 isn't all that bad except for the coin inletted into the cheek piece!
The other,,the poor gal I think was originally 9.3x57 (bore is .366). Someone had it rechambered to 35 Whehen (!) in an attempt I'm guessing to get more power north of the US/Canada border where rifle originally came from (Moose country).
I tried a few of my 35W rounds through the so-so .366 bore and the results are what I expected.
I'm thinking of rechambering the 35Whelen to 9.3x62 Mauser (should clean up the 35Whelen chamber) to try and save it even with the bore the way it is. It'd be a brute to shoot and the magazine may only take the lighter bullets,,but at least the rifle would be back to a metric.


lancaster
(.470 member)
03/10/16 10:32 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

2152 hq

you see this is a archive thread, imho the very first tinme someone collect them to get an overview what was made and who was made it. would be nice if you post pics of your Haenel rifles, the M 88 and also the M 1900 and M 1909 you have. the main producers of M 88 sporters were Haenel and Schilling in Suhl, both make military carbines up to 1898 when the M 98 came so had the machinery to make new carbine actions. unfortunately many of this rifles have no name because made for the gun trade to get the name of the gunmaker who will sell it in the end.
the only chance is maybe to find some features only one maker had or get an overview about the serial numbers to sort it out if there is a Haenel or a Schilling made rifle.


buckstix
(.400 member)
04/10/16 05:19 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Hello All,

I'm a little late finding these references, but perhaps someone can answer my questions.

I just acquired an 88 Sporter (?) Variation w/ a rare scope mounting. The scope pivots to the side, and the whole assembly is also claw-mounted. Pushing the button "up" on the left rear of the mount, removes the scope.

The scope itself is held in a "clam-shell" arrangement with a thumb screw. There is a "V" notch in the mount that aligns the scope into a similar "V" on the rear scope ring, so that it always returns to the same "rotation" if removed. The retical is a strange crosshair-post configuration with a small "loop" at the top of the post.

I could use some help to determine what exactly I have. There are lots of markings on the barrel and action. Does anyone out there know what all the different markings mean? Any idea what year my rifle was made?

No caliber marking but chamber cast shows 8x57 with a .319 bore.

Here are a lot of pictures:
















kuduae
(.400 member)
05/10/16 12:36 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

First to the markings: The circled "little rooster" (="Haehnel" in German dialect), surrounded by CGH, was the trademark of the C.G.Haenel company, Bahnhofstr. 16, Suhl. Haenel made many M88 military carbines and rifles , not only for the German army, but for export also. They used their actions to build most of the M88 sporters too. So these Haenel sporters are not converted surplus military rifles, just as the Remington 30 rifles are not ex-military P14 or M17 Enfields.
156.14 (.,/ interchangeable) is a gauge number like we still use on shotguns, lead balls to a British pound. As these numbers were taken over from Britain, 156.14 stands for a bore/land (not groove /bullet!) diameter between .310" and .320" (141.95).My own Haenel M1900 in 8x57I is marked 118.35 = .300" - .310". These gauge numbers were used by the Suhl proofhouse from 1893 to 1912, replaced by mm figures in increments of .1 mm.
The CROWN + crown/N proofmarks stand for Nitro proof using the special "4000 atm proof powder". This proof was used from 1894 to about 1923.
The rifle was proofed for the M88 8x57I sevice load of 2.75 g = 42.4gr GewehrBlaettchenpulver = (military-)rifle flake powder behind the 227 gr Stahlmantelgeschoss = steel jacket bullet.
"Star" was a high quality barrel steel by the Boehler steel works, Austria.
The other small letters are worker's stamps, factory internal quality control marks, unidentifyable today.
The scope is a very early Voigtlaender, Brunswick, "Skopar", one of the very first rifle scopes, offered from 1895 to aout 1905.
These early sing mounts were overly complicated and not recoil and wear resistant. By 1910 they had disappeared from the market again.
The rifle was retailed by Jacob Sackreuter, Friedenstr.3, Frankfurt on Main, founded 1830, last mentioned at the time of WW1. My own 8x57I Haenel M1900 was retailed by Sackreuter also. It is mounted with a Voigtlaender "Skopar D", a long eye relief version.



buckstix
(.400 member)
05/10/16 01:25 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Hello Kuduae,

Thanks for the reply.

Based on what you have said, would 1905 - 1910 be the approx date of manufacture for my rifle?

As I have now had more time to examine the scope mounting, I find that the complete scope mounting apparatus is claw mounted on the left side, with a single "hook claw" at the front, and a single "notched claw" at the rear. The pictures I have shown illustrate its removal by pushing "up" on the spring loaded button at the rear.




In addition, the scope is clamped in place with a clam-shell arrangement that is held closed with a thumb screw.

Loosening the thumb screw, and swinging it to the side, allows the top of the clamp to pivot open, releasing the scope.





When the scope is replaced and the clam shell pivoted closed, there is a small "V-notch" in the top clamp, that aligns with a "point" on the scope ring. This assures that the scope is oriented properly with the cross-hairs in the correct position.




This arrangement works very well. And although there is some "wiggle" in the mounting, I was able to remove and replace the scope several time while shooting, and it always returned to a reasonable 100 yard zero.

I have also determined that the "swing-to-the-side" feature of the scope mount is only for loading the rifle with the 5-round clip, not for aiming and shooting with the iron sights. There is a "tunnel" beneath the mount that allows the iron sights to be used with the scope in place.

The scope is only 2x power and I'm not sure how to use the cross-hairs. The little circle is about 6 minute of angle, covering a 6" circle at 100 yards, and is positioned about 6" above the center of the cross-hairs. Perhaps you aim with the small circle at 100 yards (100 meters) and aim with the cross-hairs at 200 yards. (200 meters) Using my balliostic calculator, it shows a 220 g bullet at 1900fps would strike 5.9" high at 100 meters, and be dead on at 200 meters.



kuduae
(.400 member)
05/10/16 08:21 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Quote:

Based on what you have said, would 1905 - 1910 be the approx date of manufacture for my rifle?



Rather 1895 - 1905. At least, the Voigtlaender "Skopar" scope as mounted on your rifle was not listed anymore in an 1908 catalog, replaced by the more stramlined "Skopar B", while the long eye relief "Skopar D" was still available.


buckstix
(.400 member)
05/10/16 11:21 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Hello Kuduae,

Thank you for your reply.

And thank you once again for your expertise in providing details about my rifle.

Only today did I discover that both the scope, and the scope mount, have serial numbers matching the rifle.





lancaster
(.470 member)
06/10/16 02:49 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

seems they were order and sale together

buckstix
(.400 member)
07/10/16 10:24 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Hello lancaster,

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I believe it so.

Thank you for starting a most interesting discussion.


lancaster
(.470 member)
26/11/16 04:04 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

7x57, maybe post war made sporter, german proof in Ulm 7/1956
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=6198539#img













lancaster
(.470 member)
08/02/17 06:56 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

this was a real "sporter" made from a Gewehr 88 http://www.lauritz.com/sv/auktion/tysk-gevaer-model-1888-kaliber-8-x-57/i3764198/#

65 cm long barrel in 8x57













lancaster
(.470 member)
07/03/17 06:45 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

C.G.Haenel 8x57I http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100814190







































Ash
(.400 member)
07/03/17 09:13 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Love those see-saw front sights.

chapmen
(.300 member)
02/06/17 11:13 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Schilling Suhl sporter, 9x57 , suhl and english proof marks, Lyon&Lyon Calcutta adress.......















lancaster
(.470 member)
02/06/17 11:19 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

looks like an original carbine was sporterized

with the indian provenance an interesting piece


chapmen
(.300 member)
03/06/17 04:07 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Haenel and Schilling made them from leftover parts. This one is very near at an military 88 carbine.
System shows " Gew.88 " , only crown "S" ( Schilling ) stamps on all parts and last two digits of sn. No military acceptance markings!


lancaster
(.470 member)
03/06/17 06:47 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Haenel and Schilling were still making new actions and also complete carbines for export to china and south america up to 1914. the better quality hunting rifles I collect here in this thread were build on brand new carbine actions. the cheap quality hunting rifles are real sporter made from surplus military rifles. imho, there was no production of M 88 rifles in Suhl ever but only carbines.


here we have them all

the high quality gentlemans rifles for 95 Mark





the "Reptier-Pirschstutzen" in 8x57I as a hunting rifle made from a carbine 88 with hunting sights and another sling swifel for 44 Mark. to change the barrel for the 9x57 was a littleness in Suhl than.

the original M 88 military rifle for 55 Mark is probably surplus and the M 88 carbine for 40 Mark maybe a new made gun from Schilling or Haenel too because you read "like those in service with the german cavalry". add 4 mark for the hunting sight and sling swifels and you have the "Repetier-Pirschstutzen" above. your Lyon&lyon carbine have also those sling swifels!


such guns had sometimes the notice "cheap rifle for delivery into the colonies" simply because it was also a first and third world hundred years before and people there had not so much money.




a friend in Finland found also a carbine 88 in 9x57 in an estate once, will ask him if he still have pics.


it was a good monetary option to the Mannslicher Schönauer Stutzen for 165 Mark



chapmen
(.300 member)
04/06/17 05:52 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Quote:



Haenel and Schilling were still making new actions and also complete carbines for export to china and south america up to 1914. the better quality hunting rifles I collect here in this thread were build on brand new carbine actions. the cheap quality hunting rifles are real sporter made from surplus military rifles. imho, there was no production of M 88 rifles in Suhl ever but only carbines.







Schilling never made actions. The military carbine actions where made by Haenel, also used by Schilling. (Storz, Deutsche Militärgewehre, Band 2 and other.)
I see no reason for two qualities of systems, but there where a lot of not accepted stuff
left from the german military carbine line.
The interesting point on this carbines from Schilling and Haenel is that they have not one military
acceptance stamp on any part. That doesnt fit with surplus military rifles.


chapmen
(.300 member)
04/06/17 05:56 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive



i see this in an other way.

7782 is an hunting carbine, made from surplus military carbines. This type should have acceptance marks, and correct date for ordnance made carbines.


7780 is an surplus rifle in original condition.
7781 is an surplus carbine in original condition.






lancaster
(.470 member)
04/06/17 05:10 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

the years from 1888 to 1898 were called the "carbinetime" in Suhl

if Schilling got the actions from Haenel there was not so much left over for them to do because I think we agree that the action is the most important part when building a gun.
I see no reason why Schilling had engraved the actions then with the own name on this part when it came from haenel.
that was not common.






your carbine was made in 1906 when no carbine 88 were ever made anymore for german authorithies





the text to number 7781 stated "suchlike in use with the german cavalry"

why "suchlike" and not "original military carbines"? at least your carbine was produced in a time when production changed for the carbine 98 completly but Suhl was still making the carbine 88.

here a Haenel 1907 made carbine in 7x57 for south america







of course there was a use of not accepted parts or guns that were sold on the civilian market.


lancaster
(.470 member)
04/06/17 07:41 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

carbine sporter KAR "88" C G Haenel 1890 On Reciever, No Mag, SN 8889











http://www.icollector.com/Mauser-Model-88-Commision-Carbine-8MM_i10198528

"Haenel Sporter Model 88 Bolt Action Rifle, #10799, 8mm (.318), 21'' part-round barrel, matted and border engraved blue finish, ''C.G. Haenel, Suhl, Germany'' to top flat of barrel inlaid with platina, and fine Schnauble pistol-grip cheekpiece walnut stock. Bolt features striker peep sight. Condition is excellent as modified and retaining " http://www.icollector.com/Haenel-Sporter-Model-88-Bolt-Action-Rifle_i21575768












"C. G. Haenel classic early German sporting rifle on model 88 Mauser style action in 8x57 J caliber with 318 bore in very good to near fine original condition, serial number 57 on the right side of the action. The rifle shows a 24” octagon barrel with a 2 leaf folding rear sight and full Haenel signature on matted barrel. The magazine and action are case hardened and approximately 75% finish remains drifting to a silvery gray with some rainbow hues. The stock has been professionally refreshed and is in near excellent condition. The rifle is mounted with double set triggers and measures 43” overall. " http://www.icollector.com/C-G-Haenel-cla...ber-w_i19089089




















lancaster
(.470 member)
04/06/17 08:11 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

https://gundigest.com/reviews/early-german-bolt-action-sporters-set-standard


"Early German Bolt-Action Sporters Set a Standard

In the years before 1914 one could find, tucked away in a corner of the Sears, Roebuck catalog, a listing for a bolt-action sporting rifle from Germany. Variously listed as a Mannlicher, or a Haenel-Mannlicher, or sometimes just a C.G. Haenel (pronounced HY-nul), these rifles were the first steps in a trend that became a deluge: Bolt-action sporting rifles based on military actions.


Generally now known as Haenel-Mannlichers, these German bolt-action rifles were not cheap. In the 1902 Sears catalog, the price was $24.50. By comparison, a Winchester Model 95 listed at only $17.50. What made the German import worth 50 percent more than this state-of-the-art lever rifle? And why, when Model 95s are prized by collectors, are Haenel-Mannlichers all but forgotten except for a few devotees of early custom rifles?

There are two answers to that question, and relative quality has nothing to do with it. They are both finely made rifles, and some of the Haenels especially so.

For most gun collectors, the era of sporting bolt rifles began with the Mauser 98.

Everything good and modern occurred after that, they believe, and nothing much before. But such was not the case. In the frenzy of rifle development in Europe between the arrival of smokeless powder in 1886 and the ultimate Mauser in 1898, several good military bolt rifles made their debut. For sporting purposes, the most significant by far was the German Commission rifle of 1888.

For military collectors, the Gewehr ’88 is almost a cult object, and while it has been widely written about, it is also widely misunderstood. It is sometimes described as a Mauser with Mannlicher features, and sometimes the reverse. In reality, however, the Commission rifle was neither Mauser nor Mannlicher, but that rarest of creatures: A mechanical device designed by committee that was highly successful.

Its stint as the official infantry rifle of the German Army was short-lived – only 10 years – but it went on to a successful career in every corner of the globe as both military rifle and, in its converted form, a hunting rifle. So good was the Commission action that Steyr, in Austria, which manufactured the ’88 under contract for Berlin, modified it into a hunting rifle. The result was the famous Mannlicher-Schönauer Model 1903, a design that set the standard for quality hunting rifles for the next 70 years.

Steyr was not the only company to appreciate the virtues of the Commission rifle. C.G. Haenel, a prominent German gunmaking company in Suhl, also made Commission rifles under contract. Founded by Carl Gottlieb Haenel in 1840, C.G. Haenel & Co. quickly became a force in German gunmaking and, like most German firms, produced sporting weapons when it was not filling military contracts.

Haenel’s civilian rifles on the Commission action followed the German hunting rifle style that existed since the advent of centerfire cartridges. Most had half-octagon barrels with full or partial matted ribs, matted receiver ring, folding leaf sights, schnabel fore-ends and elegant turned-down bolt handles. There was usually a stock-bolt in the fore-end, and sometimes they were fitted with receiver sights. Most had double-set triggers. While the majority were chambered for the standard military 8×57 cartridge (usually the original .318” bullet, rather than the later .323”) they were also offered in pure hunting cartridges like the 9×57.

The first importer of Haenel-Mannlichers was Oscar Hesse of New Jersey, who began bringing them into the U.S. in 1894. There was a strong connection between German shooting clubs in the U.S., German immigrant gunmakers and the German companies, so more and more importers got into the act, and each, it seemed, stipulated little changes to the overall design. As a result, the number of minor variations seems endless.

This brings us back to the two major reasons there is only minor collector interest in these rifles. The first, of course, is the lack of a famous name such as Winchester. The second is the impossibility of classifying rifles by model and year. Model classification and certifiable originality are the backbone of gun collecting, and with Haenel-Mannlichers and other civilian rifles based on the Commission action, this is almost impossible. There were too many importers at this end, too many small gunmakers at the other end, and far too many variations in between.

For the modern rifle lover though, Haenels in their many guises offer an opportunity to own a rifle of stellar quality for not much money. The materials, workmanship and finishing are comparable to fine, modern, custom rifles. On the negative side, they are chambered for cartridges like the 8×57 and 9×57 that by today’s standards are relatively low velocity and suitable only for short-range hunting.

Collecting Haenel-Mannlichers may never make you any money, but it can lead into exploration of a fascinating byway in the history of the sporting rifle. You will find early Mannlichers from Steyr as well as German and Austrian custom makers, and you will find custom-ordered takedown rifles and modified Gewehr ’88s.

There was life before the Mauser 98 and the evidence lies — as with so much of American life — in the pages of the old Sear's



The conversion to a Mauser-style box magazine with hinged floorplate is one of the most beautifully executed floorplate-release mechanisms ever made – far superior to almost any modern rifle, including some ultra-high-dollar custom rifles. It is crisp, positive and unfailing. This rifle also has an excellent double-set trigger.






Haenel-Mannlicher, circa 1909, fitted with a Lyman Model 36 receiver sight and Lawrence sling. The sight appears to have been fitted at the factory, but it is impossible to say for certain.

"


chapmen
(.300 member)
04/06/17 08:25 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

the text on 7781 says :
"blameless conserved" and " good reworked "- so this are surplus rifles, why should be new made rifles reworked?



chapmen
(.300 member)
04/06/17 08:40 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Quote:

the years from 1888 to 1898 were called the "carbinetime" in Suhl

if Schilling got the actions from Haenel there was not so much left over for them to do because I think we agree that the action is the most important part when building a gun.
I see no reason why Schilling had engraved the actions then with the own name on this part when it came from haenel.
that was not common.







Very small of this time is for shure.
Haenel and Schilling produces the 88 carbines for the german military.
1888 Schilling and Haenel get an contract for 200.000 carbines to made.
This 200.000 are the reason for the so called "carbinetime".
Schilling used actions made by Haenel and as usual they stamped it with Schilling.
Also other parts was made from the different suhl firms.

source: Storz, Band 2, Deutsche Militärgewehre.

also it is possible that Haenel made new actions around 1905, they had the machines.
So why should it be impossible that Schilling bought actions from Haenel?
That was usual for every kind of guns in Suhl.
They are not engraved, the "V.C.S. Suhl 1906" is rolled on. For this you need an special machine.
Remember, military made carbines was not signed with "V.C.S. Suhl and date" - they was signed with "V.C. Schilling Suhl and date"


lancaster
(.470 member)
04/06/17 08:53 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Quote:

the text on 7781 says :
"blameless conserved" and " good reworked "- so this are surplus rifles, why should be new made rifles reworked?






for sale ad? could be also made from parts or complete rifles that did not pass the final quality control, production overrun. just to show the customer it was the best quality he got there when it was in fact NOT.
anyway, your 1906 made carbine was not a surplus rifle.


lancaster
(.470 member)
04/06/17 09:04 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Quote:

Quote:

the years from 1888 to 1898 were called the "carbinetime" in Suhl

if Schilling got the actions from Haenel there was not so much left over for them to do because I think we agree that the action is the most important part when building a gun.
I see no reason why Schilling had engraved the actions then with the own name on this part when it came from haenel.
that was not common.







Very small of this time is for shure.
Haenel and Schilling produces the 88 carbines for the german military.
1888 Schilling and Haenel get an contract for 200.000 carbines to made.
This 200.000 are the reason for the so called "carbinetime".
Schilling used actions made by Haenel and as usual they stamped it with Schilling.
Also other parts was made from the different suhl firms.

source: Storz, Band 2, Deutsche Militärgewehre.

also it is possible that Haenel made new actions around 1905, they had the machines.
So why should it be impossible that Schilling bought actions from Haenel?
That was usual for every kind of guns in Suhl.
They are not engraved, the "V.C.S. Suhl 1906" is rolled on. For this you nedd an special machine.
Remember, military made carbines was not signed with "V.C.S. Suhl and date" - they was signed with "V.C. Schilling Suhl and date"





thats looking different for me

we know that Schilling, Haenel and Spangenber&Sauer were forming the Suhl Consortium since the 1860s for handle military orders in labour division. so the statement that Schilling never made actions is not true or we say it precise that Haenel was making receiver but never making the bolts. so we see that Haenel and Schilling working hand in hand together with smaller firms and both name the carbines they were assemble in the end with the own name. after the end of the carbinetime and the end of the suhl consortium I sure that Haenel and Schlling were able to make complete actions alone.


chapmen
(.300 member)
04/06/17 09:10 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Quote:





say it precise that Haenel was making receiver but never making the bolts. so we see that Haenel and Schilling working hand in hand together with smaller firms and both name the carbines they were assemble in the end with the own name.







i fully agree with this. This is also the sight from documents.


chapmen
(.300 member)
04/06/17 09:16 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Quote:


after the end of the carbinetime and the end of the suhl consortium I sure that Haenel and Schlling were able to make complete actions alone.





Because of the special machines that needed for making receivers i dont think that Schilling was able to made them.
If they had the machines before they could made receivers for the contract also. There would be no reason to split.

But, who knows what happend in this time for shure.
There are several possibilities and only very few archive documents.........


Bokmal
(.275 member)
04/06/17 09:17 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Quote:


a friend in Finland found also a carbine 88 in 9x57 in an estate once, will ask him if he still have pics.




I'm sorry for the potato quality pics. They were taken with a mobile phone 8 years ago in a garage.







chapmen
(.300 member)
04/06/17 09:34 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

interesting!!!

lancaster
(.470 member)
04/06/17 09:44 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

was in 9x57 too, iirc

this could be also a pre war 1 surplus rifle going over the liege gun trade. looks like it was rebored in Liege to 9mm.


lancaster
(.470 member)
28/06/17 04:39 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

another carbine hunting rifle, 8x57I SN 5817
broken stock http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=6517486#img









Sarg
(.400 member)
28/06/17 06:58 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Love those Carbines, be on that in a flash if here !

Thank you for posting these Lancaster !!


lancaster
(.470 member)
09/09/17 03:27 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

nameless Haenel or Schilling maybe rechambered to 8x60I in the 1920s
http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_info.php?products_id=54762

" 7,5x60; 90% blue, very good bore, very good stock, 24'' barrel, Receiver ring is marked with 2.67 g G.B.P. over St. m. G.. Barrel, on top at receiver ring with KRUPP STAHL. Checkered pistol grip showing a little wear. Antique., s/n 261xx "

we will see http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=305032&Main=304972#Post305032













lancaster
(.470 member)
12/10/17 01:24 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

7x57, SN 3730
Hensoldt Diatal 4 X 32, Abs. 4, on claw mount
https://www.hermann-historica.de/de/jagd...p;currentpos=76




8x57IS(? its a 8x57I) by Eduard Kettner, SN 103
https://www.hermann-historica.de/de/pirs...p;currentpos=77



lancaster
(.470 member)
27/11/17 05:44 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

"V. CHR. SCHILLING (SUHL)
AN 8X57J 'MANNLICHER MOD. 88' BOLT-MAGAZINE SPORTING RIFLE, serial no. 22872,
23 1/8in. nitro reproved (in 2017) octagonal Krupp-steel barrel with matt top flat, open sights (missing leaf sight) and ramp-mounted bead fore-sight, finely matted receiver ring, florally engraved recoil blocks, double set triggers, bold floral engraving, retaining some original colour-hardening, semi-pistolgrip stock with cheekpiece, sling swivels, 14in. pull including steel buttplate, weight 7lb. 2oz. "

http://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/asp...9&saletype=









another 8x57I , looks like a Gewehr 88 sporter wit the original 72 cmm long barrel, maybe made by one of the smaller gunmaker in Suhl by using a surplus rifle

http://www.naturabuy.fr/M88-Repetier-Pir...em-3441400.html






















anyway, not the common Haenel/Schilling rifle


lancaster
(.470 member)
19/02/18 04:08 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

7x57 by an unknown maker, SN 137183
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=6822774

















Sarg
(.400 member)
19/02/18 07:12 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Very nice & liking the scope mount, would fit on one of my Steyr 93-95 ?

Why is it so high do you think, for the stripper clips ?


lancaster
(.470 member)
19/02/18 03:16 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

yes, its very high and it could be the clip fits under der scope this way

the three feet claw mount is the same for the M 88, the Mannlicher 92, 93 and 95 and for the Mannlicher Schönauer because the receiver is the same outside


lancaster
(.470 member)
25/08/18 04:10 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

got this pics from Finland, a M 88 rifle in 8x57 that was given as a challenge trophy by a finnish Civil Guard unit for shooting competition in the 1920s.





unusual as possible, rifle will be in auction next time


kuduae
(.400 member)
25/08/18 06:39 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Quote:

got this pics from Finland, a M 88 rifle in 8x57 that was given as a challenge trophy by a finnish Civil Guard unit for shooting competition in the 1920s.



Not a M88, but a Haenel, Suhl, M 1909, grade St.P.Nr.6, a really rare bird. Most likely made before WW1.
Pic and description from a pre-WW1 Haenel catalog:

Translation:
St.P.Nr.6 Stripperclip loading hunting rifle Haenel system, Model 1909. Bolt with gas shield, bent bolt handle with pear shaped knob; round barrel Krupp´s fluid steel, with silver bead frontsight on short, matted base, standing rear sight with one small folding leaf, with good double set trigger, better stock wood (than grade St.P.Nr.5) and better finish; halfstock with cheekpiece and checkered pistolgrip, sling swivels, all parts blued Mark 95.-
Available in 7mm (7x57), 8mm (8x57I), 9mm(9x57)
Total length about 112cm., weight about 3.150 kg

My own Haenel M1909, "economy" grade St.P.Nr.5 in 9x57


lancaster
(.470 member)
25/08/18 02:06 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

of course you are right

need more sleep here


lancaster
(.470 member)
29/08/18 05:04 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

"Mauser M91 Sporter labeled C.G. Haenel Suhl 1891"
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/m...15-c-9204b8dbaf

"Description: Mauser M91 Sporter labeled C.G. Haenel Suhl 1891 in 7.65mm. The barrel measures 22'' with a scope block and fixed front sight, the stock extends to 4'' on the muzzle. The butt stock has been altered with a spacer ending in a crescent steel butt plate. The detachable clip is missing. Overall fair condition with a very good base. "



looks like a winchester stock cap, 7,65 would be the 7,65x53 Belgian -Argentine

unusual in all


lancaster
(.470 member)
26/11/18 10:44 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Schilling 8x57I, SN 23146
https://www.walterborg.se/sv/auktion/auktion/h18/kulgevar/5272_4











lancaster
(.470 member)
27/12/18 06:52 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

8x57I
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=7224499













jebstuart
(.224 member)
22/03/19 12:22 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Well, after all this time, I think I've discovered for sure that my Haenel 88 sporter has Vienna Snapper Mounts. And, I'm never likely to find ring mounts for them!

Dang that's a shame - it's a pretty nice, original rifle. Now that I know "for sure", if someone can verify it, and that I'll never be able to mount a scope on these mounts, I would appreciate it.

The rifle:







jebstuart
(.224 member)
22/03/19 12:26 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

More:







jebstuart
(.224 member)
22/03/19 12:35 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive


OK, one more time - no kidding:







lancaster
(.470 member)
22/03/19 01:59 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

yes, vienna snap mount and it was a better scope for the days
something in the Zeiss Zielsechs class

imho, for a toolmaker its not so hard to make the parts, the rear feet is very simple.

bring it to the lighthouse in the middle of ... and I can let it make here for 250 euro


Sarg
(.400 member)
22/03/19 04:16 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

That is very nice, Thank you for posting !

jebstuart
(.224 member)
22/03/19 05:56 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Quote:


imho, for a toolmaker its not so hard to make the parts, the rear feet is very simple.

bring it to the lighthouse in the middle of ... and I can let it make here for 250 euro




Thank you for the info.

But I'm not exactly sure what you mean regarding getting one made? Can you get one made, including the front "claw" portion?

Thanks again,
Jeb


lancaster
(.470 member)
22/03/19 09:32 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

yes. made
don't believe this is rocket sciences! for a tool maker this are very simple parts to make
my old gunmaker was allways making his claw mounts completly at home because the one you can get on the market here were not his taste.


what do you need ? a 6 x scope , best with rail and the old feets

something like this http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=7396866

the old claw mount parts help a lot. you take them from the scope and cut the claws off. having a more modern scope like the zeiss here you also have a windage screw and dont need the screw on the claw mount anymore.this will be your dovetail so you have the connection with the scope.
than you need a forefoot and thats what the toolmaker have to build





sorry for the bad pics, hope you understand how it works.
such a thing have to be made for the measurments of the hooks on your rifle. not the complete part only the base and when it fit its welded on the dove tail








the rear hook is also a very easy part that will be welded on the rear dovetail







with welding every old part can be changed in any direction
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....true#Post278582


jebstuart
(.224 member)
23/03/19 07:43 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Yes, that's what I need but I have some questions for you if you don't mind.

1. The space between the front and back mounts seem longer than any I have seen. They're 7.75" (19.69 cm). Do you think I would need a scope with a longer than normal tube?

2. I think the soldered scope to rings (soft solder I hope) is more age correct than split rings, but that means I couldn't set eye relief. Would the toolmaker need the rifle, or at least the barreled action to set the eye relief within its range.

3. The front mount appears to be see-through. Is that correct?



Thanks much for your help.


lancaster
(.470 member)
23/03/19 04:12 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

yes, this 19,69 cm is a lot I have to measure 6x scopes to see if this was possible or we had the next bigger class - Zielacht. What ever it was a 8x scope allways looking like a stove pipe. the 6x scopes are more elegant and like I say before welding change in any direction. you have a great selection of second hand scopes on the market from the 1960s and 70s that coming in excellent quality.

soft soldered scope rings are better but I was making it simple for you! this is a LOT of work.
you have to find a steel tube scope in this size thats in good shape. probably such an old scope have to go for an overhaul to a scope specialist before and thats not for nothing.the scope have to be dismantle, the scope is soldered to the rings, the scope is put together and you test the rifle. if you hit the paper you do the next step if not do it again. if it shoots you dismantele the scope again and rust blue everything, then assemble it again.
windage correction for old scopes is made by a more complicated forefeet.
with a more modern scope you have a screw on the right side and dont need it.
I can understand what you mean because I collect bolt action hunting rifles and whenever there is a gun that lost the scope I try to give it a period one.
whats ok for me is maybe a bad advise for you.


Bokmal
(.275 member)
25/03/19 05:54 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

This Kahles 4X has exactly 140 mm between the mounts. Perhaps a Zielsechs with the front mount on the front lens housing would fit Jebstuarts rifle?



lancaster
(.470 member)
25/03/19 06:19 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

hello bokmal

this kahles looks period, the forefoot can be cut apart and welded much more forward to the 19 cm lenght.
such scope mounts are not uncommon with vienna snap mounts. the feet I show above is also in this fashion.










for bokmal only


we try to figure it out now very hard whats the mistake



lancaster
(.470 member)
10/08/19 03:21 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

8x57I made by Thieme & Schlegelmilch - Nimrod Gewehrfabrik /Suhl http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=7531202













kuduae
(.400 member)
11/08/19 08:53 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Mine, in 8x57I, by V.C.Schilling, Suhl. Early Voigtlaender, Brunswick, "Skopar B" 2 ½ x scope in original claw mounts.




lancaster
(.470 member)
19/10/19 06:43 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Gewehr 88, Viktor Christian Schilling - Suhl, 8x57I, #31647,
https://auctions.springer-vienna.com/en/...p;currentpos=67







Lot 620
O/U Repeating Combination Gun, German, Gewehr 88, 8x57I; 16/65, #D.R.G.M.126513, § C
Starting price 2.500 EUR
https://auctions.springer-vienna.com/en/...;currentpos=141





Detail

60 cm rifle barrel, octagonal at the breech, beneath that a 58,5 cm shotgun barrel, engine-turned rib, open sights, (original additional folding leaf missing), action of the commission Gewehr 88, punched and engraved with foliate scroll, double triggers with single set trigger in front, butterknife bolt handle, shotgun barrel tilting to the right for loading, beneath that a long horn underlever similar to type Collath, manual extractor, choked full, this barrel is fired by a hammer on the left sidenext to the bolt shroud, the adapted flag type safety blocks that as well as the cocking piece of the rifle barrel itself, walnut stock, oval cheekpiece, short wooden fore-end, rifle barrel bears Ferlach proof marks, the bolt head has German proof marks, receiver inscribed „D.R.G.M. (Deutsches Reichs Gebrauchs Muster) 126513, the arm has been reblued (the receiver has probably been colour hardened originally), shotgun bore pitted, stock with a repaired crack on the left hand side on top of the grip, year of manufacture about 1900, the buttstock presumably later replaced, extremely rare sporterised adaption of the Spandau commission Gewehr 88, condition III.


lancaster
(.470 member)
02/11/19 05:44 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

great old style stutzen M 88 in 8x57
https://www.dorotheum.com/de/l/6462401/#
'C. G. Haenel Suhl' 'Otto Bock Hoflieferant' 'Berlin' on the barrel
starting bid 60 euro and whoever get it- congratulations





lancaster
(.470 member)
25/11/19 06:07 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

textbook example of a C.G.Haenel rifle in 8x57I





























lancaster
(.470 member)
29/11/19 12:33 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

unusual with the tangent sight
https://stiegele.weebly.com/offers.html









tinker
(.416 member)
29/11/19 01:54 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Nice

lancaster
(.470 member)
31/12/19 05:15 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

8x57I with octogonal barrel https://egun.de/market/item.php?id=7743994













93x64mm
(.416 member)
31/12/19 10:03 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Unusual engraving style......not normally my preferred type whatsoever, but on this rifle it is rather nice indeed! Marvellous work & using an engraving style that would compliment the rifle rather than detract in looks.

lancaster
(.470 member)
03/05/20 10:15 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

C.G. HAENEL MANNLICHER SPORTING RIFLE WITH SCARCE PIVOTING BOLT STOP SIGHT, 8x57I , SN 10456













https://auctions.morphyauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?inventoryid=445211

C. G. HAENEL SUHL , 8,5 mm caliber so maybe 9x57, SN 6941591 (???)
https://www.dorotheum.com/de/l/6353424/#







C.G.Haenel 8x57, SN4211






here together with a E.Nordheim M98 in 8x57

https://www.icollector.com/Two-Engraved-...Rifle_i24907071




lancaster
(.470 member)
20/05/20 01:28 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

looks like a real sporter made by using a surplus rifle, no 9x56 but could be a 9x57 mauser wheere the 9x56 fits https://www.waffengebraucht.at/waffen/ku...ch-1905--184574







lancaster
(.470 member)
24/05/20 04:45 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

"Lot 50
A SCARCE MAUSER MODEL 1891 RIFLE AND SINGLE BARREL SHOTGUN BY THIEME UND SCHLEGELMILCH, SUHL, NO. 126513, CIRCA 1895
A SCARCE MAUSER MODEL 1891 RIFLE AND SINGLE BARREL SHOTGUN BY THIEME UND SCHLEGELMILCH, SUHL, NO. 126513, CIRCA 1895
The sighted part octagonal barrel with matte integral rib, engraved and color-hardened action, trigger-guard with engraved spur, double triggers, shotgun barrel with horn under-lever, varnished walnut stock, with checkered pistol-grip, "cross-over" butt stock with secondary detachable cheekpiece, steel butt-plate with trap
24 inch (61 cm.) barrel
Blued finish to both barrels fading, action maintains vivid colors, lacking original scope, stock finish in excellent condition
6.5 x 57mm over 12 gauge
A similar combination rifle/shotgun by P. Oberhammer, Munchen which is part of the Tower of London Collection is pictured as plate 136 in Hunting Rifles by Howard L. Blackmore
Thieme und Schlegelmilch, Suhl, partnership of Adolph Thieme and Friedrich Wilhelm Schlegelmilch"
https://www.christies.com/lotfinder/Lot/a-scarce-mauser-model-1891-rifle-and-2086492-details.aspx






it seems a surplus action model 91( short rifle for artillery

developt from the model 88 cavalry carbine)

was used by thieme&schlegelmilch in suhl to build this unique combination gun for oberhammer in münchen


lancaster
(.470 member)
15/06/20 01:00 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

"Thieme & Schlegelmilch - Suhl" - "Nimrod - Gewehr - Fabrik"
8x57I SN 31864 https://www.hermann-historica.de/de/auctions/lot/id/83660





Spud303
(.224 member)
20/06/20 11:07 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Here is a Westley Richards single shot sporter in .32/40 with a modified M88 action. The magazine has been removed and replaced with a solid loading trough. The 25" barrel is marked "Westley Richards & Co. London". Matching serial no throughout. load stamp of 22 gr cordite & 165 gr projectile under barrel. I was interested to see how it would shoot with some vintage Kynoch rounds (1964 production) and it grouped nicely at 75 yds.
Spud
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w2oj8wu3q3u3u5z/WR%20M88%20.32-40%20a%20%282%29.jpg?dl=0


lancaster
(.470 member)
20/06/20 06:39 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

thats an interesting one





bolt handle looks like my m 92 Mannlicher in .375NE





lancaster
(.470 member)
17/01/21 02:49 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive













Bokmal
(.275 member)
17/01/21 02:51 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

So how does it actually work? Turning the barrels back and forth?

lancaster
(.470 member)
17/01/21 07:25 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

they were made with M 88 actions and M 98 actions

here is a M 98 but the shotgun barrels works the same

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2WCpXgGM50

and yes I would like to have one of this, do not care about the action then


93x64mm
(.416 member)
17/01/21 08:56 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Great workmanship to say the least Lancaster!
Fantastic find once more matey


lancaster
(.470 member)
01/03/21 07:00 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Wilhelm Brenneke Leipzig -Suhl, 8x57I
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=13617748

think it was made by someone in suhl, haenel or schilling





















































93x64mm
(.416 member)
01/03/21 08:44 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Wonderful old piece Lancaster, might have travelled a mile or 2 in its day.
Still very capable of bringing home the bacon.


NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
01/03/21 02:22 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Quote:
















Wow that is unusual and different.

And I guess the rifle's magazine still functions for the rifle barrel?

Might not be quick swapping from one barrel to the other.

If the anti crazies ever get their wish and ban firearms and we end up getting ONE only as some suggest, something like this might get produced again.

It looks like a scope might be able to be mounted on the rifle barrel as well.


NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
01/03/21 02:26 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Quote:

Wilhelm Brenneke Leipzig -Suhl, 8x57I
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=13617748

think it was made by someone in suhl, haenel or schilling









One of these would make a nice wall hamger, a military version, preferably from the Tanzania WW1 campaign. I think the were M88's?

A sporting rifle like this, would make such a lovely vintage hunting rifle.


Rothhammer1
(.400 member)
01/03/21 08:00 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Quote:



One of these would make a nice wall hamger, a military version, preferably from the Tanzania WW1 campaign. I think the were M88's?






Per this 'site, quite a variety of arms were used by the Schutztruppe: http://s400910952.websitehome.co.uk/germancolonialuniforms/militaria/rifles.htm


NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
02/03/21 01:39 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Quote:

Quote:



One of these would make a nice wall hamger, a military version, preferably from the Tanzania WW1 campaign. I think the were M88's?






Per this 'site, quite a variety of arms were used by the Schutztruppe: http://s400910952.websitehome.co.uk/germancolonialuniforms/militaria/rifles.htm




Yes the model 1871 in 11 mm (?) was probably more likely.


NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
02/03/21 01:42 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Quote:

New Guinea Polizeitruppe
The first local police soldiers of the German New Guinea Company were armed with converted French Chassepot carbines. These were soon replaced by the Kar71. Later photographs most commonly show them armed with the Gew88. The German reservists that served against the Australian invasion in 1914 were armed with the Gew88.




Something that really is largely not recorded in history. I know next to nothing of it.


New Guinea Polizeitruppe, Friedrich-Wilhelmshafen 1899
They have Kar71 carbines stacked and an obsolete muzzle loading canon in the foreground.
Photo © Frankfurt University Koloniales Bildarchiv


Rothhammer1
(.400 member)
02/03/21 06:14 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive




Not from the African campaigns, but I still like this little Gewehr 1888/91:



themauserkid
(.275 member)
08/03/21 08:34 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

I just picked up one just like it! Beautiful little carbines.

NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
17/05/21 05:33 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Quote:

Eduard Kettner Köln Mod. 88 in 9x57 Mauser
scope is a Hensoldt Duralyt 6x on claw mount










Rifle keeping a tally.


lancaster
(.470 member)
07/03/22 06:53 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

8x57I https://bid.wardsauctions.com/Non-Restri...-Chec_i44455452
serial # 6158

















lancaster
(.470 member)
22/08/22 05:04 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

V.C. Schilling 8x57 I https://huntershouse.dk/kat120-Detaljer/side20081-V.-Chr.-Schilling-Suhl-8x57J.html







93x64mm
(.416 member)
22/08/22 09:04 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Lovey pieces for their age Lancaster - marvellous pieces of kit those pop up peeps!

lancaster
(.470 member)
02/10/22 10:16 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

nice 8x57I https://www.zbrane.cz/bazar/inzerat/mauser-8-64-js-5407

whats interesting about this the 3 feet or Mannlicher Schönauer claw mount is in this case a 4 feet mount with two claws on the rear feet - never see this before









Rothhammer1
(.400 member)
02/10/22 10:49 PM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Quote:


whats interesting about this the 3 feet or Mannlicher Schönauer claw mount is in this case a 4 feet mount with two claws on the rear feet - never see this before







My 1922 proofed M1910 Take Down Model wears a Gerard 'B' scope on claw mounts with two 'feet' in front, two at rear. It was on the cased MS when Grand Dad bought it second hand at Colombo, Ceylon, 1930 or 31.


Igorrock
(.400 member)
05/10/22 06:11 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Quote:

whats interesting about this the 3 feet or Mannlicher Schönauer claw mount is in this case a 4 feet mount with two claws on the rear feet - never see this before



I have a book "German snipers 1914-45" written by Peter R. Senich. There is some photos where is quite similar mounts.


Rothhammer1
(.400 member)
07/10/22 08:37 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Quote:

Quote:

whats interesting about this the 3 feet or Mannlicher Schönauer claw mount is in this case a 4 feet mount with two claws on the rear feet - never see this before



I have a book "German snipers 1914-45" written by Peter R. Senich. There is some photos where is quite similar mounts.




A couple of images from my computer's 'stash':



On M1900 MS with 'early' magazine release:


The mounts vary widely and were produced a century ago by guild shops and custom gunsmiths, often by hand filing and drilling. There was no sort of 'standard model' for claw mounts. Each was a 'custom' installation. Catches varied, some tipped toward the front for removal, some to the rear.


'Sniper' mount for M98 Mauser:



Modern made Alan Rohne mounts:







'Vienna Snappers' were often crafted with a 'one legged' rear mount, as were / are some claw mounts:




New England Custom Guns mount for M1950 MS with 'one legged' rear:





Stoeger, 1939. The Mauser is shown with claw mounts, the MS with a 'Vienna Snapper':




'Factory' scope mounting was, in the pre - WW2 era, performed at guild shops post - manufacture.


lancaster
(.470 member)
25/05/23 05:02 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

a 8x57I sold by Wilhelm Brennecke in his shop in leipzig, on the octagonal barrel "Wilhelm Brenneke Gewehrfabrik Leipzig-Suhl" https://www.dorotheum.com/de/l/8567056/#





lancaster
(.470 member)
20/08/23 04:20 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

very nice short stutzen, most likely in 8x57I http://bazar.hunting-shop.cz/inzerat/647756-gew-88-karabina-toptoptop/









fjrdoc
(.300 member)
20/08/23 05:02 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Nice looking rifle with beautiful wood.

lancaster
(.470 member)
17/01/24 07:16 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

heavy reworked, maybe got a new barrel in 1992 - now in 8x57IS https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=19392851































JDL
(.300 member)
18/01/24 10:31 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

A bit over the top for my taste but, would be fitting for a Kaiser.

sharps4590
(.300 member)
19/01/24 04:23 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

I have two of these, one in 8 X 57I and with the military type magazine and the other a Haenel/Rasch in 9 X 57 with what I assume to be a Rasch designed magazine follower/floorplate. It's quite intricate and well made.

I have really come to admire this action, whether with the staggered magazine or the en-bloc style of magazine. It's ALMOST as smooth as the somewhat later Mannlicher/Schoenauer combination, and that's saying something.

I agree with JDL, that's quite a rifle but a little too much for a retired electrician from the Ozarks.....even though I am mostly Prussian......


lancaster
(.470 member)
19/01/24 06:19 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

I think they did somethings wrong when the rifle was changed for the 8x57IS in 1992. the rifle is now to much with this gloss finish, sure it don't look like this when new.
every part polished white now was bluing then or colour cases hardened. the ugly tip on the stock makes no sense at all and I bet it was done in 1992. I see there a tip made from horn maybe lost sometimes because the glue dont make it over the century.
who ever did it had the ability to polish the magazine white for nothing but was not able to fix the broken locations on the stock left and right of the action.
this is in the end an example of wrong and to much restore, would have been better they were using the time to fix the small things on the stock.

such higher grade guns, when original, never look like they are to much


93x64mm
(.416 member)
19/01/24 06:44 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

Quote:

a 8x57I sold by Wilhelm Brenneke in his shop in leipzig, on the octagonal barrel "Wilhelm Brenneke Gewehrfabrik Leipzig-Suhl" https://www.dorotheum.com/de/l/8567056/#








So I wonder would a rifle like this been the basis of the great 8x64mm that Herr Brenneke designed?
Would the M88 have a long enough magazine, or was it only every made in a Mauser action?
I see it went for over $1000 Euro, would that have been a bargain for a rifle such as this?


lancaster
(.470 member)
19/01/24 07:08 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

I can try it tomorrow but dont think the magazine is long enought for a 8x64 and unlike the Mauser magazine you can't extent it with little tricks.

M 88 hunting rifles are known in 7x57, 8x57, 9x57 and one in 10,75x57 or 10,75x61


lancaster
(.470 member)
27/02/24 05:07 AM
Re: another M 88 sporter for the archive

something is not right with this short rifle /sporter, maybe the barrel was shortened before it got a new proof in 1991 http://www.sar-shop.de/epages/61028398.s...B%201783/%2018"
















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