| PapaScarface |
| (.224 member) |
| 05/08/19 10:02 AM |
What animal screams 303b to you?
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Hello brains trust!
Today I woke up thinking long and hard that once my lee speed mock up sporter is finished being built I should look into having some engraving done. So my question is, what animal best represents the 303 British to you? My feeling is as an Aussie that a Red deer would best the 303. No doubt countless reds have fallen to the 303 in Aus, NZ and the UK.
Is there a species that screams 303 British to you?
| Huvius |
| (.416 member) |
| 05/08/19 11:49 AM |
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Re: What animal screams 303b to you?
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The 303 was the mainstay of African hunting for so long and for so many different game animals, you could hardly go wrong choosing almost anything as a pairing for the 303.
For me, purely from imagination, the medium antelopes just seem ready made for the performance of the 303.
I could envision a Lee Speed 303 engraved with a Lesser Kudu on the magazine and maybe a Grant’s or Tommy somewhere on the action, butt or grip cap.
| tinker |
| (.416 member) |
| 05/08/19 01:27 PM |
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Re: What animal screams 303b to you?
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I always think Africa too.
Any of those big crazy looking African ungulates.
Also Elk.
And deer on foggy Scottish hillsides.
| Waidmannsheil |
| (.400 member) |
| 05/08/19 06:57 PM |
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Re: What animal screams 303b to you?
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For me it's all Africa. Antelopes and Lions would be my choice. While plenty of hunters used 303's in Australia and New Zealand they were normally sporterised SMLE's rather than a true Lee-Speed.
Matt.
| Rod4861 |
| (.300 member) |
| 05/08/19 07:27 PM |
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Re: What animal screams 303b to you?
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Any game animal from the Empire would be applicable. UK, Canada, Africa, India, Malaysia, Australia & NZ.
My choice for a Lee Speed would be something from India. Sambar, Leopard & or Tiger.
Or just leave it plain.
Rod
| Postman |
| (.375 member) |
| 05/08/19 07:56 PM |
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Re: What animal screams 303b to you?
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In eastern Canada, the answer is simple and immediate: moose!
People traditionally used .30-30 for whitetail deer, but many many hunters at one time used a sporterized .303 for moose. Of course, if the hunter was also a rifle looney, all bets were off. As disposable income has increased over the years since the great wars, and the large numbers of very cheap surplus rifles and ammo have also diminished, the .303 has faded.
| DarylS |
| (.700 member) |
| 06/08/19 12:00 AM |
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Re: What animal screams 303b to you?
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LOL - when I read the title of this thread, I said "MOOSE, then thought 215gr. RN KKSP". BC, of course.
| Ripp |
| (.577 member) |
| 06/08/19 02:54 AM |
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Re: What animal screams 303b to you?
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The .303 British was the first center-fired rifle I ever owned.. open sights used it for whitetail for years..
If I were to take one to Africa it seems it would work great on everything from impala to eland.. with the correct bullets.. otherwise on the smaller stuff the damage to meat/hides would be to great..
| xausa |
| (.400 member) |
| 06/08/19 03:03 AM |
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Re: What animal screams 303b to you?
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Tiger! When I think of a Lee Speed, India immediately comes to mind. I once had an Indian classmate, who told me that his father's trophy room was carpeted with tiger skins. When I asked him what caliber rifle his father used, he replied ".303 of course! Ammunition is hard to come by, so he used military surplus. Solids, of course." When I asked him where his father aimed, thinking he would say chest or shoulder, instead he said, "Right between the eyes. Ammunition is expensive and he couldn't afford to expend more than one shot per tiger."
| Ripp |
| (.577 member) |
| 06/08/19 07:30 AM |
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Re: What animal screams 303b to you?
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Quote:
Tiger! When I think of a Lee Speed, India immediately comes to mind. I once had an Indian classmate, who told me that his father's trophy room was carpeted with tiger skins. When I asked him what caliber rifle his father used, he replied ".303 of course! Ammunition is hard to come by, so he used military surplus. Solids, of course." When I asked him where his father aimed, thinking he would say chest or shoulder, instead he said, "Right between the eyes. Ammunition is expensive and he couldn't afford to expend more than one shot per tiger."
That's an awesome story...
| DarylS |
| (.700 member) |
| 06/08/19 01:57 PM |
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Re: What animal screams 303b to you?
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Yes, it is.
Friend of mine had me chamber a .308" groove dia. barrel to chamber standard .303 factory ammo. After doing that, he found it didn't like the 220gr. Hornady's he wanted to use, but shot right around 1/2" with 150gr. Hornady Interbond bullets. He used that load, running 2,750fps for his long range deer - WT and Muley bucks, both taken at 100 to 110yards, as well as his 120yard moose and 415yard bull elk. All, 1 shot each. That's one fall's hunting - lots of meat in the freezer for family and local relatives.
150gr. .308's and .303's, if a decent bullet, do the job if placed correctly. They will not fail. He told me the elk took 3 or 4 steps - he wasn't sure, then dropped.
Seems my (& his) preferred heavier bullet weights were not needed - at all.
| xausa |
| (.400 member) |
| 07/08/19 02:53 AM |
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Re: What animal screams 303b to you?
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This was in 1967, when I was a student in the Goethe Institut in Murnau, Bavaria. I don't think I ever knew Mr. Mukerji's first name (and probably couldn't have pronounced it if I had). I was one of a class which consisted of me as the only American, a Polish lady, a French lady, a Swede, a Belgian and a Norwegian. German was the only language used in the classes. I spent twelve weeks there and came away with an improved knowledge of spoken German and a bride (one of the instructors).
| Ripp |
| (.577 member) |
| 07/08/19 03:00 AM |
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Re: What animal screams 303b to you?
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Quote:
This was in 1967, when I was a student in the Goethe Institut in Murnau, Bavaria. I don't think I ever knew Mr. Mukerji's first name (and probably couldn't have pronounced it if I had). I was one of a class which consisted of me as the only American, a Polish lady, a French lady, a Swede, a Belgian and a Norwegian. German was the only language used in the classes. I spent twelve weeks there and came away with an improved knowledge of spoken German and a bride (one of the instructors).
Sounds like a busy 12 weeks...
Congrats... Love Germany..have only been there twice..but beautiful country..
| 93x64mm |
| (.416 member) |
| 07/08/19 06:21 AM |
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Re: What animal screams 303b to you?
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Quote:
For me it's all Africa. Antelopes and Lions would be my choice. While plenty of hunters used 303's in Australia and New Zealand they were normally sporterised SMLE's rather than a true Lee-Speed.
Matt.
No matter how much you think about it, this is really the crux of it all!
Man-Eaters Of Tsavo
In my humble opinion, yes this nails it!
| Ripp |
| (.577 member) |
| 07/08/19 07:23 AM |
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Re: What animal screams 303b to you?
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Quote:Quote:
For me it's all Africa. Antelopes and Lions would be my choice. While plenty of hunters used 303's in Australia and New Zealand they were normally sporterised SMLE's rather than a true Lee-Speed.
Matt.
No matter how much you think about it, this is really the crux of it all!
Man-Eaters Of Tsavo
In my humble opinion, yes this nails it!
Agree..and who are located in a museum in Chicago..
Saw them several years ago..
| Rule303 |
| (.416 member) |
| 07/08/19 07:18 PM |
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Re: What animal screams 303b to you?
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Quote:Quote:
For me it's all Africa. Antelopes and Lions would be my choice. While plenty of hunters used 303's in Australia and New Zealand they were normally sporterised SMLE's rather than a true Lee-Speed.
Matt.
No matter how much you think about it, this is really the crux of it all!
Man-Eaters Of Tsavo
In my humble opinion, yes this nails it!
Says it all. Oh and a German spiked helmet from WW1
| szihn |
| (.400 member) |
| 08/08/19 04:55 AM |
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Re: What animal screams 303b to you?
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I own a Speed-(ish) 303 and also a 9.3X74R, a 9.3X62, a 375H&H and a 404 Jeffery.
Somehow ----when I think of large male lions that would like to eat me--- I don't think of the 303 much at all.
I have killed a handful of nice Mule Deer and White Tail Deer with my 303s however, so that's what comes to mind for me.
NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 08/08/19 09:21 PM |
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Re: What animal screams 303b to you?
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A .303 British Lee Speed with engraving of a red stag suits Australia and NZ well. A kangaroo of course as well. The .303 or its derivatives has probably killed as many kangaroos as any other cartridge.
More exotic, I like the idea of Indian game. Water buffalo, gaur, tiger. Especially the deer species which are in common, India and Australia, sambar deer, chital of axis deer and hog deer.
If it was mine I would strongly have a preference for water buffalo, tiger and sambar deer. If it was desired to have a common Aussie and Indian theme, water buffalo and sambar deer.
As for Africa, maybe a Maneaters of Tsavo theme. With maned lion and perhaps a suitable antelope theme.
On a completely different note, perhaps an Afghan theme, Mujaheddin and Speztnaz Russian soldiers!
| Cjdawe |
| (.224 member) |
| 13/08/19 09:11 PM |
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Re: What animal screams 303b to you?
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For me it would be a ever declining woodland caribou,the 303 and the enfield has a long history here ...I just hope I get the old mans rifle finished before its too late
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 13/08/19 09:59 PM |
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Re: What animal screams 303b to you?
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Quote:
Hello brains trust!
Today I woke up thinking long and hard that once my lee speed mock up sporter is finished being built I should look into having some engraving done. So my question is, what animal best represents the 303 British to you? My feeling is as an Aussie that a Red deer would best the 303. No doubt countless reds have fallen to the 303 in Aus, NZ and the UK.
Is there a species that screams 303 British to you?
PapaScarface
Make sure we see this rifle and its engraving one day.
| casper50 |
| (.400 member) |
| 20/08/19 02:09 PM |
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Re: What animal screams 303b to you?
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Just a tidbit of knowledge. The Maneaters of Tsavo were maneless as were all male lions in that area.
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 20/08/19 06:14 PM |
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Re: What animal screams 303b to you?
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Yes but who would put an engraving on a rifle like that! Thread bare mangy looking Tsavo lions.
| PapaScarface |
| (.224 member) |
| 22/08/19 11:36 AM |
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Re: What animal screams 303b to you?
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Interesting input by all, I of course was expecting the maneaters to get a fair mention as well as Canadian moose, and general African plains game, interestingly I hadn’t considered Indian game at all.
Surprised none of our European members chimed in...
| Ash |
| (.400 member) |
| 22/08/19 09:29 PM |
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Re: What animal screams 303b to you?
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Interestingly - no game animal comes to mind when I think 303..
| HeymSR20 |
| (.300 member) |
| 29/02/20 08:10 PM |
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Re: What animal screams 303b to you?
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Rabbits.
As a member of the Combined Cadet Force (CCF) at School I worked the system. I was in the RAF section so learnt to fly. But also known to be a keen rifleman so I was sergeant in charge of the school range. Monday afternoons I would set up the range with No8s and Martini 22lr and have squads of 13 to 16 year old boys under my instruction. I myself would shoot 200 rounds a week!
As main rifles we had No 4s and a half a dozen Bren Guns - all fully working.
When it came to exercises I would be seconded to the Army as “enemy". Myself and a couple of others would be given a few handfuls of 303 blanks, a Bren and a couple of No 4s and told to go and provide skirmishing and covering fire.
Why Rabbits?
Well a 303 Blank has a hard cadboard wad. Army rations were pretty rank. If you get in close to some rabbits as you are creeping into an ambush. Then instruct your squad to take aim and when the attack is signalled you open up on half a dozen rabbits grazing quietly at 20 yards with a 303 bren and No4s, when the smoke clears there will be three or four rather dazed and stunned rabbits that with a quick rugby tackle can then be turned into a fine dinner over a camp fire!! It happened more than once.
| Rule303 |
| (.416 member) |
| 29/02/20 08:34 PM |
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Re: What animal screams 303b to you?
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Quote:
Rabbits.
As a member of the Combined Cadet Force (CCF) at School I worked the system. I was in the RAF section so learnt to fly. But also known to be a keen rifleman so I was sergeant in charge of the school range. Monday afternoons I would set up the range with No8s and Martini 22lr and have squads of 13 to 16 year old boys under my instruction. I myself would shoot 200 rounds a week!
As main rifles we had No 4s and a half a dozen Bren Guns - all fully working.
When it came to exercises I would be seconded to the Army as “enemy". Myself and a couple of others would be given a few handfuls of 303 blanks, a Bren and a couple of No 4s and told to go and provide skirmishing and covering fire.
Why Rabbits?
Well a 303 Blank has a hard cadboard wad. Army rations were pretty rank. If you get in close to some rabbits as you are creeping into an ambush. Then instruct your squad to take aim and when the attack is signalled you open up on half a dozen rabbits grazing quietly at 20 yards with a 303 bren and No4s, when the smoke clears there will be three or four rather dazed and stunned rabbits that with a quick rugby tackle can then be turned into a fine dinner over a camp fire!! It happened more than once.
. Guess it worked alright.
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 01/03/20 12:17 AM |
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Re: What animal screams 303b to you?
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Quote:
Rabbits.
As a member of the Combined Cadet Force (CCF) at School I worked the system. I was in the RAF section so learnt to fly. But also known to be a keen rifleman so I was sergeant in charge of the school range. Monday afternoons I would set up the range with No8s and Martini 22lr and have squads of 13 to 16 year old boys under my instruction. I myself would shoot 200 rounds a week!
As main rifles we had No 4s and a half a dozen Bren Guns - all fully working.
When it came to exercises I would be seconded to the Army as “enemy". Myself and a couple of others would be given a few handfuls of 303 blanks, a Bren and a couple of No 4s and told to go and provide skirmishing and covering fire.
Why Rabbits?
Well a 303 Blank has a hard cadboard wad. Army rations were pretty rank. If you get in close to some rabbits as you are creeping into an ambush. Then instruct your squad to take aim and when the attack is signalled you open up on half a dozen rabbits grazing quietly at 20 yards with a 303 bren and No4s, when the smoke clears there will be three or four rather dazed and stunned rabbits that with a quick rugby tackle can then be turned into a fine dinner over a camp fire!! It happened more than once.
Great story.
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 01/03/20 12:17 AM |
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Re: What animal screams 303b to you?
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Quote:
Tiger! When I think of a Lee Speed, India immediately comes to mind. I once had an Indian classmate, who told me that his father's trophy room was carpeted with tiger skins. When I asked him what caliber rifle his father used, he replied ".303 of course! Ammunition is hard to come by, so he used military surplus. Solids, of course." When I asked him where his father aimed, thinking he would say chest or shoulder, instead he said, "Right between the eyes. Ammunition is expensive and he couldn't afford to expend more than one shot per tiger."
Another cool story.
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 01/03/20 12:20 AM |
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Re: What animal screams 303b to you?
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Quote:
This was in 1967, when I was a student in the Goethe Institut in Murnau, Bavaria. I don't think I ever knew Mr. Mukerji's first name (and probably couldn't have pronounced it if I had). I was one of a class which consisted of me as the only American, a Polish lady, a French lady, a Swede, a Belgian and a Norwegian. German was the only language used in the classes. I spent twelve weeks there and came away with an improved knowledge of spoken German and a bride (one of the instructors).
Yet another. And the "student" poaching the teacher.
Sounds like a great experience all round. Plus living in Bavaria for three months.
I assume it was Hochdeutsch not Bavarian lingo?
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 01/03/20 12:27 AM |
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Re: What animal screams 303b to you?
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Quote:
A .303 British Lee Speed with engraving of a red stag suits Australia and NZ well. A kangaroo of course as well. The .303 or its derivatives has probably killed as many kangaroos as any other cartridge.
More exotic, I like the idea of Indian game. Water buffalo, gaur, tiger. Especially the deer species which are in common, India and Australia, sambar deer, chital of axis deer and hog deer.
If it was mine I would strongly have a preference for water buffalo, tiger and sambar deer. If it was desired to have a common Aussie and Indian theme, water buffalo and sambar deer.
As for Africa, maybe a Maneaters of Tsavo theme. With maned lion and perhaps a suitable antelope theme.
On a completely different note, perhaps an Afghan theme, Mujaheddin and Speztnaz Russian soldiers!
It is interesting to read past comments, sometimes from a couple of decades ago and see if you think the same? I usually do.
I did add Indian Blackbuck to my thoughts this time as well. Tiger, Sambar and Blackbuck. Water buff and gaur.
I don't think of Africa for the .303 as much, except black Askari troopers carrying them, or WW2 North Africa. Africa makes me think of the 7x57, 6.5x54 MS, .375 H&H, .404 and .416.NE DRs etc
For Scottish red deer I think of a .275 Rigby M98.
The Australian theme of water buff and sambar would be great on a DR sideplates in .303 Brit.
| PapaScarface |
| (.224 member) |
| 21/07/20 03:54 PM |
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Re: What animal screams 303b to you?
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Did the .303 see much time in India? I always thought it was banned pretty early on? Perhaps I’m wrong, in any case Indian game brings Corbett and his exploits with the 275 and his double to the front of mind.
As it stands I’m torn with 3 species for the bottom of the magazine, or perhaps fitting them all on the dust cover?
Species being the Aussie Sambar Stag, a Roan Antelope, and my dream species to hunt with the rifle, a Leopard.
One day I’ll get this project finished, thanks for everyone’s replies. Some very interesting replies indeed.
| 93x64mm |
| (.416 member) |
| 21/07/20 09:43 PM |
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Re: What animal screams 303b to you?
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My P14 which is only in its full military trim has taken its share of sized porkers!
150gn Speers at just under 2700fps certainly do what they're intended to do, anchored them every time.
Certainly no fancy Lee Speed that's for sure - but she does it job well.
| EDELWEISS |
| (.375 member) |
| 22/07/20 11:41 AM |
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Re: What animal screams 303b to you?
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Am I too late to add Wild Boar? Yes I thought of the Tsavo Kitties too; but for me a 303 screams Wild Boar for today as no one would let you tackle Lions, Tigers, or Bears with a 303 today; but its just about perfect for a charging pig and a military solid FMJ would be great for head shots.
| DarylS |
| (.700 member) |
| 22/07/20 01:36 PM |
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Re: What animal screams 303b to you?
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The .303 would be just fine on large black bears, but I agree with those who would suggest something larger for grizzly which would include Alaskan coastal Browns.
For pigs of any size, NP, I am sure.
| mckinney |
| (.400 member) |
| 22/07/20 07:22 PM |
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Re: What animal screams 303b to you?
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My thoughts for the engraving would be a basic scroll design, tight and well done. A Lee Speed to me is a rifle that looks best with good wood, good checkering coverage, a forend cap, rust bluing, trap buttplate with checkering and not much adornment. That said, I haven't seen one with engraving and might like it if I did. If I had to pick an animal I'd probably make it a leopard. I'm sure the cartridge has taken a bunch back in the day and would still do it today with the right bullets.
I haven't handled or shot these rifles so have always wondered how they feel in the hand. How do they compare to a 1903 Springfield or 98 Mauser in terms of smoothness, lockup etc? Any clattering or sloppiness? How about the ones offered by Woodward, Greener, Army Navy, etc?
many thanks
| 9.3x57 |
| (.450 member) |
| 23/07/20 12:18 PM |
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Re: What animal screams 303b to you?
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Quote:
LOL - when I read the title of this thread, I said "MOOSE, then thought 215gr. RN KKSP". BC, of course.
Ha!!
Beat me to it!!
That was the first one that came to my mind.
MOOSE!
And has to be a kitchen table sporterized No 1, also.
Second thought to mind was the first bear I shot many years ago.
| Rule303 |
| (.416 member) |
| 23/07/20 07:49 PM |
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Re: What animal screams 303b to you?
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9.3X57 Nice trophy and your No5 looks to be in good condition.
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 23/07/20 08:31 PM |
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Re: What animal screams 303b to you?
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Quote:
Did the .303 see much time in India? I always thought it was banned pretty early on? Perhaps I’m wrong, in any case Indian game brings Corbett and his exploits with the 275 and his double to the front of mind.
I wonder if we can examine this further.
Was the .303 British used a lot in India in the first half plus of the 20th Century in India as a civilian hunting cartridge?
I believe it was. But is this true? I believe I have seen some comments about Indians or resident hunters there using the .303.
But there was also the military calibre ban?
What period of time was the military calibre ban active for?
Comments welcome.
| 9.3x57 |
| (.450 member) |
| 23/07/20 10:48 PM |
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Re: What animal screams 303b to you?
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Quote:
9.3X57 Nice trophy and your No5 looks to be in good condition.
It was basically perfect when I got it for $100 except the striker was bent. I replaced that and it became one of the guns I regret selling after I sold it some years later! HA!!
I just remembered that wasn't my first bear, but rather my first in Idaho.
NITRO:
I have always wondered about "The Ban", too, as it included .450 and .303 calibers and as you know, spawned the .470, etc. It is very confusing. Hopefully someone here has more info on the interesting subject.
John Taylor mentions it in African Rifles and Cartridges and it appears elsewhere in hunting literature. My understanding {not from any specific citation, just from tidbits picked up here and there} is that it involved civilian use and thus we see military and police officer use pop up frequently where it does not seem to have been applied, or at least enforced, and it was only enforced {or legally applied} in India and in African countries, not of course in Australia and NZ and Canada and also excepting South Africa where it does not seem to have been enforced at all {if it applied there?}, the .303 being quite common there among locals going back to the capture of many British service Lees in the Boer War.
As for a caliber ban generally, it's pretty common actually, with the French and Italians and many Latin American countries banning current military calibers. Technically, we have a caliber ban here in the USA, that being nothing over .50 in bottleneck smokeless rounds. Or some such, as I'm not sure of the details!
I wonder if there is anyone who can scout out the specific law itself. I'd be interested in reading the actual code and see what it says and also, its date of introduction and date of abrogation/alteration, etc.