lancaster
(.470 member)
25/01/14 04:06 PM
Lee Speed at Auction

see this at usedguns.com.at


http://www.usedguns.com.au/Product.aspx?p=28760
Original commercial Lee Speed border line engraved action, BSA butt pad, replacement BSA barrel with excellent chip at wrist of stock bore. Plus post

Condition: Good
Price: $595

you wonder about this small pic but maybe better than expected for 550 $

and another one



http://www.usedguns.com.au/Product.aspx?p=25998

BSA Lee Speed Sporter, action border line engraved, BSA butt pad, pattern 3 sporter, very good number 3 barrel, chip out of top at wrist. African rifle sling eyes. Plus post.

Condition: Good
Price: $895


Sarg
(.400 member)
25/01/14 06:07 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

She's a rough one that one, I'm sure it is the same rifle in 2 different listings ?

Claydog
(.375 member)
25/01/14 08:28 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

I think it's the same one. The price has been coming down. Getting to its worth now.

LesLeeSpeed
(.300 member)
26/01/14 08:16 AM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

Hi,
It is the same one, and they replaced the barrel in it. I had a look at it last April and knocked it back for less than this with the old barrel and no sights. It has been drilled for a mount.
Regards
LesLeeSpeed


lancaster
(.470 member)
11/05/14 01:43 AM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

for sale in sweden

https://auctionet.com/sv/136958-108-kulg.../images#image_1
BSA, modell Lee-Speed, kaliber .303, tillv.nr 232, se-nr SE1231764


looks very good


Ash
(.400 member)
11/05/14 11:05 AM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

Nice rifle Lancaster!

That first one in this thread ended up selling for $300


Clark
(.275 member)
13/05/14 05:44 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

Hello,

I'm the happy buyer of that rifle, it went for 4100 SEK which is about $630. It's the first one I've seen for sale in Sweden. I've never seen or handled a Lee Speed so it will be great to see it when it arrives. Unfortunately it takes about 3 months to get a license here in Sweden, but when it gets here I'll make sure to post pictures.

/C


lancaster
(.470 member)
13/05/14 06:39 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

congratulations and waidmannsheil with your new rifle
I hope 303 ammo is easy available in your area


Clark
(.275 member)
13/05/14 09:50 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

Thanks!

It is not, but I'm a keen handloader and components for .303 seems to be easy to find. Will probably start with a simple 174 grains RN bullet to get started. I will keep you updated!

Thanks again,
Lars


Ash
(.400 member)
12/12/14 09:07 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

Holts Auction in January

http://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/asp...7&saletype=

** W.W. GREENER .303 'LEE-SPEED' BOLT-MAGAZINE SPORTING RIFLE, serial No. 014356, 21 5/8in. nitro barrel (proved 2014), ramp-mounted bead fore-sight, two folding leaf sights and adjustable iron sights, dust-cover, magazine cut-off, barrel engraved 'W.W. GREENER,68 HAYMARKET, LONDON S.W.' manual safety, detachable magazine, chequered pistolgrip stock, chequered for-end, leather sling, 14 1/4in. pull


Estimate £400-600




http://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/asp...7&saletype=

B.S.A. CO. .375 F.L. N.E. 'LEE SPEED' BOLT-MAGAZINE SPORTING RIFLE, serial No. 12087, 25in. nitro barrel (proved 2014), ramp-mounted bead fore-sight, 2 x flip-up rear-sight up to 300 yards, dust-cover, manual safety, detachable box magazine, chequered semi-pistolgrip stock, chequered fore-end, sling eyes, steel butt-plate,14 1/8in. pull


Estimate £300-500




lancaster
(.470 member)
12/12/14 09:40 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

maybe not realy lee speeds

Whitworth/Manchester Greenland rifle's in 8x58RD


http://www.bisgaardnielsen.dk/product.asp?product=18058




http://www.guloggratis.dk/samlerobjekter...hitworth-riffel


lancaster
(.470 member)
25/10/15 04:24 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

303, LEE-SPEED / PATENT / B.S.A. & M. Co. / 6889

SN is 6889 http://www.hermann-historica.de/db2_en/onlinekatalogeneu.html



Docbill
(.224 member)
26/10/15 11:52 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

If you bid on and win this thing from the US, how do you get it into the country?

lancaster
(.470 member)
27/10/15 03:20 AM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

you looking for a firm that makes export into the united states likes this one
http://www.gunport-gmbh.de/export-und-import-von-waffen

will cost probably 350 -400 euro


Docbill
(.224 member)
30/10/15 11:40 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

The above rifle went for E 470.

lancaster
(.470 member)
06/12/15 03:10 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

again not a real lee speed but a sporter and you will not see such a rifle again.
http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=5691303

captured lee enfield taking home after the great war and sporterized in the early 1920s by gunmaker WEIDINGER, Freising in bavaria



















lancaster
(.470 member)
05/03/17 09:59 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

BSA Lee Speed Bolt Action .303 Retailed by Holland & Holland. Excellent condition
Read more at http://www.gunstar.co.uk/bsa-lee-speed-bolt-action-303-rifles/rifles/758899#EGiG1E5kBlCiCGCJ.99


















































Old_Glass
(.300 member)
06/03/17 06:16 AM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

Quote:

Thanks!

It is not, but I'm a keen handloader and components for .303 seems to be easy to find. Will probably start with a simple 174 grains RN bullet to get started. I will keep you updated!

Thanks again,
Lars




You might as well go straight to the 215 grain round nose slugs the rifle was sighted for. Woodleigh makes them.


lancaster
(.470 member)
26/04/17 04:26 AM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

no other place to put it in hope you dont mind
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail...e-letter#detail










"These scarce rifles were manufactured with the same action as the Winchester-Lee Straight Pull Rifle adopted by the U.S. Navy in 1895 and are chambered for the .236 U.S.N. cartridge. This rifle is 1 of only approximately 1,700 sporting rifles manufactured by Winchester. The included factory letter confirms sporting rifle configuration, 6 mm caliber, fancy checkered stock, shotgun butt, and that it was received in and shipped out to order number 32215 on July 20, 1899. The left side of the receiver has the two line address/patent dates marking, and the serial number is on top of the front receiver ring. The left side of the barrel is marked with the nickel steel/smokeless powder marking, and the top of the barrel at the breech is marked ".236 U.S.N." Pinned blade front sight, elevation adjustable rear sight and one-piece deluxe highly figured multi-point checkered walnut stock with forearm grasping grooves, hard rubber Winchester grip cap and hard rubber Winchester shotgun buttplate.
"


https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail...ng-rifle#detail







"Manufactured in 1904, this is 1 of only approximately 1,700 Winchester-Lee Sporting rifles manufactured. The Winchester-Lee rifle was adopted by the U.S. Navy in 1895 and chambered for the then revolutionary 6mm Lee (.236) cartridge. The top of the barrel ahead of the rear sight is marked with the two line address, the left rear next to the rear sight has the nickel steel/smokeless powder marking and ".236 U.S.N." on top at the breech. The serial number is marked on top of the front receiver ring and the left side of the receiver is marked with the two line address/patent dates. Rapid taper barrel with a brass blade front and adjustable rear sporting sights. Mounted with a smooth one-piece walnut pistol grip stock with grasping grooves on the forearm, hard rubber Winchester grip cap and a steel shotgun buttplate. The accompanying factory letter verifies the sporting rifle configuration, caliber, that it was received into the warehouse on April 19, 1904 and shipped to order number T112912 on June 25, 1904."


lancaster
(.470 member)
10/04/20 04:54 AM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

8x50R Mannlicher for sale
https://waffen-beste.de/Rep_-Buchsen/rep_-buchsen.html















93x64mm
(.416 member)
10/04/20 07:30 AM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

Thank you Lancaster, you do us all a great service by keeping these in their respective lots.
It's a fantastic way of correlating all that historical information to preserve for later generations to admire.
I hope this finds you all well, if not bored out of your mind unable to shoot; guess this is the next best thing to that!


lancaster
(.470 member)
08/05/21 05:10 AM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

https://www.dorotheum.com/de/l/7178449/#

Alex Martin/B. S. A. Enfield, Mod.: Target Rifle, Kal.: 8 x 50R,
'Alex Martin Glasgow & Aberdeen',SN 20056, 640 mm barrel









superbee
(.224 member)
12/05/21 11:10 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

Thanks for posting. 8MM lee speed has been on my want list for years! They seem to be very rare in North America.

lancaster
(.470 member)
16/05/21 02:48 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

just look what happens with this, ended for 1088 euro whats high here for such an exotic bolt action but alex martin was a respected scottish gunmaker and it shoots the 8x50R mannlicher still in use by some austrian hunter

some years ago there was a plain lee speed in 8x50R in auction that ends for +/- 300 euro here. still regret I dont bid on this rifle then.


lancaster
(.470 member)
27/05/21 04:48 AM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

B.S.A.
A .303 BRITISH (MKVII) 'LEE-SPEED' BOLT-MAGAZINE SPORTING RIFLE, serial no. 42232 / 18069,
circa 1920, 25 1/4in. nitro reproved barrel (in 2011) etched 'Proved and Sighted for The Mark VII .303 High Velocity Cartridge, the nocks form with the B.S.A. piled arms trade mark, open sights with two folding leaf sights marked for 100, 200 and 300, with tangent sights from 4-10, block mounted bead fore-sight, bolt numbered 42232 with round knob and safety, butt socket numbered 18069 and marked 'B.S.A. Co.', well-figured stock with sling eyes, 14 3/8in. pull including B.S.A. trademarked buttplate, weight 7lb. 2oz.

https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/as...471&image=7

















HOLLAND & HOLLAND
A .375 (2 1/2IN.) 'LEE-SPEED' BOLT-MAGAZINE SPORTING RIFLE, serial no. 24369,
for 1905, 25in. nitro reproved barrel (in 2021) with full length raised file cut rib, three folding leaf sights with inlaid sight lines and marked '100', '200' and '300', bead fore-sight, the underside of the barrel numbered 3925, the bolt shroud engraved 'SHOT AND SIGHTED BY HOLLAND & HOLLAND. 98. NEW BOND STREET. LONDON. 24369', flat side bolt knob, B.S.A. and C. Proctor patent tang safety, patent No. 28834 of 7th December 1897, the tang marked 'B.S.A. PAT. 28834 / 97' in an oval, detachable magazine, the base of the magazine, the buttsocket, receiver ring and top tang with fine border and acanthus scroll engraving, retaining some original finish, pistolgrip stock with horn finial, engraved steel pistolgrip-cap, blank oval silver escutcheon, missing sling eye, 14 1/4in. pull including border engraved steel buttplate (with trap), weight 7lb. 12oz.


https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/as...7&saletype=



















degoins
(.333 member)
28/05/21 01:23 AM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

Perfection in a Lee Speed!!

93x64mm
(.416 member)
28/05/21 10:13 AM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

I bet there will be some brisk bidding on these ones, especially the 375 2 1/2"
Degoins nailed it - some very fine pieces of kit there!


lancaster
(.470 member)
11/10/21 05:01 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

there is a 8x50R Mannlicher Lee Speed in auction that in general would fit into my safe but I think its a little bit to high for 700 euro with the basic military style stock













https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=14520022

I would prefer a real hunting stock with checkering, at least for this money


lancaster
(.470 member)
26/11/21 05:55 AM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

there is a 303 sporter, I suspect british made, in auction now https://www.dorotheum.com/de/l/7444639/#





on the barrel marked with "Proven and Sighted for the Mark VII High Velocitiy Cartridge"

they have BSA in the description but this is maybe a guess. anyway, never heard of such a barrel marking before. will the mark VII cartridge give adate when this build happen?


Marrakai
(.416 member)
26/11/21 09:54 AM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

Fore-wood has cut-out for clip-loading bridge (Rifle No.1 Mk.II or III), but action and bolt are Lee Speed or Mark 1?

If the stock is not correct, maybe other parts are assembled from mis-matched time-line as well...

Mark.VII ammunition introduced around 1910.

Early Lee sporters are very good things IMHO, have several myself, but prefer complete replacement of dog-leg buttstock with a higher comb to put the shooter's eye behind the sights. Significantly reduces perceived recoil as well.
Cheek-weld, not chin-weld.


AlanD
(.275 member)
28/11/21 01:35 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

You can just make out BSA on the butt socket if you zoom in on the photo on the auction site.

Regards

AlanD


lancaster
(.470 member)
28/11/21 04:40 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

mean this little thing?


you see only what you know!


lancaster
(.470 member)
03/02/22 09:58 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

exotic lee enfield sporter for sale here, wonder which way it comes
https://www.gebrauchtwaffen-spezialist.de/Langwaffen-oxid/Enfield-England-Mod-Jagd-MK-II.html






was the 270/303 a genuine australian wildcat once?


yumastepside
(.333 member)
03/02/22 10:21 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

The 303-25 and 303-270 were once very popular here...my first P14 was in 303-270

Roger


93x64mm
(.416 member)
03/02/22 10:27 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

Quote:

exotic lee enfield sporter for sale here, wonder which way it comes
https://www.gebrauchtwaffen-spezialist.de/Langwaffen-oxid/Enfield-England-Mod-Jagd-MK-II.html

was the 270/303 a genuine australian wildcat once?



It most certainly was Lancaster!
There were quite a few .22 calibre ones (including full length versions), 6mm or .243/303, .25/303. the . 270/303 which you have there. These were all the rage up until the late 60's or early 70's when imports from England (Parker Hale, BSA etc) & America (Winchester, Remington etc) became very popular & these literally just disappeared. I have heard of a .35/303 & even a .375/303, but can't recall seeing these calibres back when I was a young fella!
From memory Super & Riverbrand Cartridge Companies used to make loaded rounds.
You have a fairly rare bird there mate, I haven't seen or heard of anyone having or reloading one in years!


NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
03/02/22 11:09 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

Quote:

.25/303


You have a fairly rare bird there mate, I haven't seen or heard of anyone having or reloading one in years!




I note the elaborate labelling on the factory Norma .270/303 boxes.

I was thinking about buying a .25/303 last week ....


260rem
(.375 member)
04/02/22 01:21 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

I think the 303-25 was the most popular way back when, most of the country didn't have big game so it was varmint and roo shooting for the majority of people.
The 303-25 was flat shooting and low recoil and suited the vast majority of game.


lancaster
(.470 member)
04/02/22 08:13 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction


There were quite a few .22 calibre ones (including full length versions), 6mm or .243/303, .25/303. the . 270/303 which you have there. These were all the rage up until the late 60's or early 70's when imports from England (Parker Hale, BSA etc) & America (Winchester, Remington etc) became very popular & these literally just disappeared. I have heard of a .35/303 & even a .375/303, but can't recall seeing these calibres back when I was a young fella!
From memory Super & Riverbrand Cartridge Companies used to make loaded rounds.
You have a fairly rare bird there mate, I haven't seen or heard of anyone having or reloading one in years!





remarkable, when such things are discussed here its sounds like such rifles standing half forgotten in every third shed in australia but it seems they were allways rare


NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
04/02/22 08:24 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

.303's were found in lots of farm sheds.

These semi wildcats somewhat common.

The .22/303s would have died when the .222 arrived. Edited to add - and .22 Hornet.

The .25/303 with the .243.

The .270/303 with the .270.

As a guess popular period was the 1950s to early 60s.

All of these, the .222,vthe .243 and .270 were very popular. But the .22 RF and 12g accounts for most Aussie firearms.

I seem to remember the .303 was banned from potentially rebelous Aussie civilians hands at some time? Why? And how did that work?


260rem
(.375 member)
04/02/22 09:23 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

22lr and 12ga are definitely the traditional farm guns, I never saw much else growing up other than a .222 or 17rem with the serious fox shooters.
People thought I was a bit crazy when I bought a 6.5x55 as nobody saw the point in something that big.
Even the local red deer all fell too the 222/223, with probably the 22/250 being the biggest round you saw.
But everyone had a 22lr and a 12ga, that might be why I'm still so fond of them.


lancaster
(.470 member)
05/02/22 02:20 AM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

nothing wrong with 22 lr and 12 ga

I have a historical interest in hunting guns of the post war years. the times were not sooo much better than before the war and cheap military rifles see a lot of use still in the 1950s, 60s.
was believing before the 303 was very common than in australia. the lee enfield was probably the common hunting rifle of the chaps in the northern territory for hunting crocodile or water buffs.


DarylS
(.700 member)
05/02/22 06:15 AM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

In US magazines or books back in the 60's I think, there was some talk of the Australian wildcats on the .303 case. Wildcats as in .25/303 and .27/303. I have in my meager collection and have no idea where I got it from, a .27/303 stamped case.
I naturally assumed these were for deer, goats, brumby's and camels.


260rem
(.375 member)
05/02/22 03:32 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

Quote:

nothing wrong with 22 lr and 12 ga

I have a historical interest in hunting guns of the post war years. the times were not sooo much better than before the war and cheap military rifles see a lot of use still in the 1950s, 60s.
was believing before the 303 was very common than in australia. the lee enfield was probably the common hunting rifle of the chaps in the northern territory for hunting crocodile or water buffs.




The 303 was definitely a territory favourite for hunting pigs buff and scrub bullls.
But apparently the 25/20 was a very very popular buffalo hunting calibre with the professionals.
They used to ride after them on horseback and shoot them one handed in the head as they rode past.
But the 303 saw, a lot of use on many animals in Australia and was probably the most popular range rifle.
The wildcats were a way to sell flatter shooting rounds on by far the most abundant rifle action we have ever had in this country.
Most of those got sold to the well to do city hunters as the country folk used to use the standard 303 with cheap ex military ammunition, they used to file the tip off of them like the original dumdum round.


NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
05/02/22 08:01 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

Quote:

Quote:

nothing wrong with 22 lr and 12 ga

I have a historical interest in hunting guns of the post war years. the times were not sooo much better than before the war and cheap military rifles see a lot of use still in the 1950s, 60s.
was believing before the 303 was very common than in australia. the lee enfield was probably the common hunting rifle of the chaps in the northern territory for hunting crocodile or water buffs.




The 303 was definitely a territory favourite for hunting pigs buff and scrub bullls.
But apparently the 25/20 was a very very popular buffalo hunting calibre with the professionals.
They used to ride after them on horseback and shoot them one handed in the head as they rode past.
But the 303 saw, a lot of use on many animals in Australia and was probably the most popular range rifle.
The wildcats were a way to sell flatter shooting rounds on by far the most abundant rifle action we have ever had in this country.
Most of those got sold to the well to do city hunters as the country folk used to use the standard 303 with cheap ex military ammunition, they used to file the tip off of them like the original dumdum round.





.25/20? Or more likely the .44/40 common in many lever rifles in auctions in recent times from those years. And elsewhere in cattle Australia. Accounts of mounted buffalo shooters using the .44/40. Maybe other lever cartridges.

For the .25/20 in common use or any use on buffalo I would want to see it in evidence in writing from a reference from the time.

.303s were the National Rifle Association target rifles before changing to the 7.62.

I believe lots of SMLE .303s were in use all over Australia. Often cut down rifles to a half stock. Feral pigs and board hunting, donkeys, horses, deer etc. Used a lot in NZ as well.


260rem
(.375 member)
05/02/22 08:39 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

I only know about that from a bloke I used to know back in Darwin, he wanted me to make a new hammer for his grandfathers old 25/20.
I went around to check it out and while having a beer I asked his grandfather why he had a 25/20 in the territory?
That's when he told me it was his old buff culling gun from when he used to hunt them for money as a young man.
Apparently he and most of the other Skinners used to use them as it was so easy to handle one handed on horse back.
I asked him why not a pistol and he said that they liked to stick the muzzle right up against their head and could not do that with a, pistol.

I wish I had more information then that but that's what I was told.

He did say it was his father's gun and he used to hunt them like that too so there must be some historical information about it. I've no doubt the 303 became the gun of choice after the 1st world war.


NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
05/02/22 09:08 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

Quote:

22lr and 12ga are definitely the traditional farm guns, I never saw much else growing up other than a .222 or 17rem with the serious fox shooters.
People thought I was a bit crazy when I bought a 6.5x55 as nobody saw the point in something that big.
Even the local red deer all fell too the 222/223, with probably the 22/250 being the biggest round you saw.
But everyone had a 22lr and a 12ga, that might be why I'm still so fond of them.




Lancaster mentioned rifles found in every third farm shed.

Funny. My neighbour found a SMLE No 1 Mk III full wood .303 IN HIS FARM SHED! Found circa 1980 ? He has about four sheds. We had only two large sheds so lucked out. Actually about five but two clusters built on ...

Finding an unknown SMLE in a shed. What a find! Probably stashed there after WW1 or WW2. And forgotten. During the World Wars the newcomer ten penny poms probably here for a few years didn't trust the citizens with German names who might be third or fourth generation Australians. In WW2 firearms were certainly confiscated from "Germans" by the foreigner poms. My grandfather had to hand ALL his .22s and shotguns in. A farmer. One shotgun they thought was unregistered. So they broke it and hid it. A .303 like this may well have been hidden away during WW2 and forgotten. However I know a sheep property which once misplaced a tractor!


NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
05/02/22 09:16 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

Quote:

I only know about that from a bloke I used to know back in Darwin, he wanted me to make a new hammer for his grandfathers old 25/20.
I went around to check it out and while having a beer I asked his grandfather why he had a 25/20 in the territory?
That's when he told me it was his old buff culling gun from when he used to hunt them for money as a young man.
Apparently he and most of the other Skinners used to use them as it was so easy to handle one handed on horse back.
I asked him why not a pistol and he said that they liked to stick the muzzle right up against their head and could not do that with a, pistol.

I wish I had more information then that but that's what I was told.

He did say it was his father's gun and he used to hunt them like that too so there must be some historical information about it. I've no doubt the 303 became the gun of choice after the 1st world war.




Fair enough. The reasoning makes sense.

Articles do mention horsed buffalo hunters using heavier calibre levers, but the close brain shots might make sense with a .25.

There were a fair number of lever action .25/20s at auctions as well over the years. I considered buying one once.


NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
05/02/22 09:22 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

Interesting. I have sometimes thought about authoring and compiling a book on hunting the water buffalo. With guest writers writing some chapters. Where and when they came. Early history and historical hunting. The buffalo hide industry shooting days. More modern times. Current times. Thecsafari undustry. Rifles and cartridges. Buffalo around the world. Wild in India, Sri Lanka, Asia. Feral in Austrslia, South America.

260rem
(.375 member)
05/02/22 10:15 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

Actually this all got me thinking about it a bit, and something sort of clicked in me.
I used to love talking to all the old pro shooters back home when I was a kid, and one thing sort of stood out.
They weren't rich men by any streach, most lived out of their saddle bags and had to get by the best they could. So it makes sense thinking about it, the early buff Skinners were usually roo Skinners that saw a chance at a bigger pay day.
There were never that many buff in Australia until around the 2nd world war so a buff hunter back then was usually a roo shooter or dingo trapper most of the year and only switched to buffalo when the opportunity presented itself.

So if you spent even 80% of the time shooting roos or dingoes then a 25/20 was perfect. But if you needed to shoot some buff and all you owned was the one rifle and it was a 25/20 then you probably had to figure out a way to work with what you had.
That's the only reason I could think of to go chasing down buff to point blank range on horseback, because you had to get that close to actually kill it.

Now the blokes in the cities or towns and land owners might be able to buy something bigger like a 303 or one of it wildcats along with a shotgun and pea rifle, but if you made your living off of other people's land on horse back, then you really had to make do with one gun that would do it all for you.

There's some interesting history like that, I remember my grandfather telling me stories about being a rabbit trapper during the depression, he always said he had this funny 22 magnum rifle that was more accurate with 22lr.
That didn't make much sense to me as I knew you could not shoot 22lr in a 22mag as they are different sized bullets.
But he said he used to put in the big rounds when he would see a fox as they were too dear for rabbits and it was good to have more power for the fox as the skins were worth a week's pay.

It wasn't until reading an article a few, years ago that I finally heard about the 22 extra long.
A predecessor of the 22mag and finally that story made sense, he just assumed that the 22mag was the sane as the 22 extra long he had all those years ago.
But since the 50's he only ever owned two guns, a VG Bentley SxS 12ga and a Slazenger model 12 22lr that he bought from smith's sports store in Sydney after his best ever wool sales.
Those were the only new guns he had ever bought and the last ones he ever owned, but they did right by him for over 50 years.

There's only one gun I've owned longer then 5 years and that's grandpa's old shotgun.
How spoiled are we these days.


DoubleD
(.400 member)
06/02/22 02:44 AM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

How early is the Lee Speed? Is it based on the LE action or SMLE action?

I have a Martini Sporting rifle sold by Rawbone, proofs and marking indicate it is 1890's gun and it is marked, "for .303 Ammunition" It is also mark as using Rifleite powder. (is there a modern equivalant?)

It chambers a .303 British cartridge and will blow the head right off if fired. Bore slugs 304 major (groove) diameter. It does not use a .311 bullet.

When the Brits first started working this cartridge they were working with the Swiss Rubin cartridge which used .303 diameter bullets at the time.

Hawk .303 diameter 180 Bullets work just fine in this rifle.

I was wondering if Lee Speed went back as far the early 1890's?


lancaster
(.470 member)
06/02/22 09:05 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

there were different .22 extra long

the american extra long had a 20 mm long case ( 22 lr must have a 15 mm long case)
http://old.municion.org/22altres/22ExtraLong.htm


the european 22 extra long had a 28 mm long case

http://old.municion.org/22/22.htm

this were all oldtimers from the blackpowder age outdatet by modern smokless 22 lr


260rem
(.375 member)
06/02/22 11:13 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

I know pop used to use black powder 22lr as it was cheap, but I couldn't guess as to what version of extra long it took.

Versatile one rifle calibres have a big place in history be it something like that 22lr, the aforementioned 25/20 or especially something like the 303.

I like a lot of the "officer" model Lee Enfield rifles in 303, they weren't just a weapon of war but something the gentleman could use to hunt with whilst away on duty.
I think they have as important a place in sporting history as the civilians Lee speed in many ways.
They definitely have accounted for a lot of game in the colonial days.

I think that's why I also love the 9.3x62, as I mentioned earlier on many people could only afford one gun back in those days and the 9.3x62 proved perfect for putting meat on the table, killing destructive big cats and could even be used on the occasional rampaging elephant.
These jack of all trade rounds seem to have lost favour these days as people tend to own a battery of rifles for all occasions.

I think a Lee speed style full would carbine would be the rifle I would have chosen if I was in that situation way back then.
But a lot of the 303 sporterised and custom built guns here in Australia are our version of the Lee speed in concept in design if not always in beauty.


NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
07/02/22 01:24 AM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

Regarding a .22 RF extra long? I haven't heard of it.

There was .22 RF shorts.
The standard now .22 RF Long Rifle.
An inbetween .22 RF Long.

I had some old .22 Longs, when I once ran short of LRs I tried using them. Didn't resight in but could hit a coke can. I once had a rabbit charge me! I missed and missed but he was very slow. Completely blind from myxy. As he passed my ankle I almost touched him with the muzzle to drop him. Closest I have come to being a goner in a charge!

There may been .22 Extra Longs before the magnum as well.


lancaster
(.470 member)
07/02/22 02:53 AM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

also other rimfire caliber like the .32 and .44 had the full range : extra short, short, long and extra long

difference was allways the case length to get more black powder in it

just take a look into the rimfire cartridges http://old.municion.org/


DarylS
(.700 member)
07/02/22 05:47 AM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

I have some long cased .22 RF's in copper cases in the box of junk, along with .32, .38, .41 RF's, maybe a couple .44's.
IIRC, the 1868 J.Weeks & Son's RIC DA revolver used a .42 RF,ctg.


lancaster
(.470 member)
05/04/22 10:46 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

BSA 303, Lawn & Alder,1&2 Brackley Street, London EC
https://kesslerauktionen.ch/wp-content/uploads/katalog52-2.pdf



yumastepside
(.333 member)
06/04/22 03:43 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

I really like the stock shape on that one....some very interesting stuff in that cattledog.

Roger


lancaster
(.470 member)
30/04/22 03:52 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

real british made "sporter" https://auctionet.com/de/2163022-bullet-...he-nr-gebraucht













Igorrock
(.400 member)
20/05/22 07:17 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

What´s that big part on right side of lock ? Diopter maybe ?

NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
20/05/22 08:27 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

I used some .303 vintage Les Speeds or similar at a special BGRC/Naval Military Club informal target shoot. Really enjoyed them. I want one!

kuduae
(.400 member)
21/05/22 12:23 AM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

Quote:

Regarding a .22 RF extra long? I haven't heard of it.

There was .22 RF shorts.
The standard now .22 RF Long Rifle.
An inbetween .22 RF Long.




Left to right:
.22 short hv by Remington
.22lr by Eley
.22 CCI Stinger
.22 extra long by RWS, 20 mm copper case, probably pre-WW1
.22 WMR


lancaster
(.470 member)
22/08/22 09:11 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

Lee Enfield No.4 Mk I .303 British,nice classic hunting stock, barrel with thread for a silencer
https://huntershouse.dk/kat1758-Milit%C3...lit%C3%A6r.html











superbee
(.224 member)
04/09/22 10:14 AM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

some interesting lee speeds at auction:

https://www.icollector.com/August-Coloss...p;hi=0&vm=1


lancaster
(.470 member)
20/11/22 09:58 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

Bonehill in 303 https://auctionet.com/de/2337356-bullet-...ber-303-british

















93x64mm
(.416 member)
20/11/22 10:04 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

Marvellous ladder sight on this old girl!

superbee
(.224 member)
23/11/22 12:54 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

holts auction

https://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/as...558&image=7


DarylS
(.700 member)
23/11/22 02:48 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

That Bonehill is pretty slick. Wonder what the bore is like?
379 Euro.


lancaster
(.470 member)
18/01/23 09:34 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

a turk or kurd with a lee speed


must have been a rare rifle where the mauser was ruling


superbee
(.224 member)
10/03/23 01:08 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

Very nice John Rigby !!

https://www.proxibid.com/Guns-Military-A...958573#topoflot




lancaster
(.470 member)
10/03/23 04:34 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

eautiful Lee-Speed rifle with 10 round detachable box magazine made in 1897 by John Rigby and Company of London and Dublin. Blued 24" round tapered barrel with dovetailed bead pedestal front sight on an integral base, 3 leaf express rear sight, British Proofs, and marked for "38 Grains of Rifleite". Blued action marked on bolt shield "JOHN RIGBY & CO 72 St JAMES St LONDON & AT DUBLIN" and finely line engraved on edges of receiver. Blued wrist band marked "LEE-SPEED/PATENTS/B.S.A. & M.Co.", serial numbered 10285, with fine border and floral engraving and 2 non-factory drilled holes (probably for receiver sight). Blued floral engraved trigger guard and magazine box. Fine checkered English walnut 2-piece stock with German silver vanity plate, smooth steel trap door buttplate with initials "R.W.G." engraved on lid (probably original owner), horn forearm cap, and factory mounted hook and eye sling swivels. Comes in fitted blue felt lined leather covered luggage trunk case with maker's label and small accessories. CONDITION: 90% original blue with some light surface discoloration. Action has 90% original blue with light surface and edge wear with bolt handle worn silver. Wood has traces of original varnish with light dings and marks and a small toe wound. Good bore with functioning mechanics. Accessories: Case Barrel Length: 24" Caliber/Bore: .303 British FFL Status: Curio & Relic Manufacturer: John Rigby & Co. Model: Lee-Speed Serial Number: 10285-2722























degoins
(.333 member)
14/03/23 01:35 AM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

Very nice indeed!!

lancaster
(.470 member)
19/03/23 01:51 AM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

Cogswell & Harrison rebuild https://www.lauritz.com/en/auction/cogswell-harrison-jagtriffel-cal-303-british/i6351759/















Marrakai
(.416 member)
19/03/23 10:35 AM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

Not sure who actually made those sporter stocks for Lee Enfield conversions in the UK but I have two sets and have seen several others. One of mine came on an Ishapore-actioned Churchill sporter that I swapped for a motorbike jacket in my early twenties, the other I bought as a bare stock and now adorns a 7.62x39 conversion of a 1942 Lithgow.

Kept the white-line spacers on both of them!

The Coggie will be a nice pickup for whoever gets it.
Especially at or near the estimate.
Are you bidding, lancaster?


lancaster
(.470 member)
19/03/23 05:26 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

I believe it was done then in Birmingham by someone.
If I bid and buy everything looking interesting one live would not be enough. maybe if I see a lee speed in .315 india again but budget planning is for two other antiques this year. well, its not fixed but you know how such ideas end usually.


lancaster
(.470 member)
02/05/23 12:36 AM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

this picture of the german africa explorer Carl Peters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Peters
is interesting because he have a borchardt pistol with shoulder stock on his side but the rifle he have is looking like lee speed to me



Borchardt C 93




DarylS
(.700 member)
02/05/23 01:33 AM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

Quote:

Quote:

Regarding a .22 RF extra long? I haven't heard of it.

There was .22 RF shorts.
The standard now .22 RF Long Rifle.
An inbetween .22 RF Long.




Left to right:
.22 short hv by Remington
.22lr by Eley
.22 CCI Stinger
.22 extra long by RWS, 20 mm copper case, probably pre-WW1
.22 WMR




You forgot the .22 WRF. Stands Winchester Rim Fire. It had the same case size as the WMR, but a bit shorter. It also shot an inside lubricated lead bullet, same "style" as modern cast bullets and at a velocity of 1,445fps.
As well there was an obscure oversized .22 Winchester "Auto", which had a case a little shorter than the long rifle, but also fatter. It shot, I think, the same bullet as the .22 WRF, but at about 1,050fps. IIRC, it was chambered in a Winchester Semi Auto rifle similar to the .405 and .351 centre fires.


lancaster
(.470 member)
02/05/23 03:02 AM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

have one of this somewhere, probably don#t find when make the pic

lancaster
(.470 member)
02/05/23 03:03 AM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

Quote:

this picture of the german africa explorer Carl Peters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Peters
is interesting because he have a borchardt pistol with shoulder stock on his side but the rifle he have is looking like lee speed to me



Borchardt C 93







lancaster
(.470 member)
24/05/23 03:40 AM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

a rare teutonic sporter, still in 303
https://www.vdb-waffen.de/de/waffenmarkt....303&o=neu#

















yumastepside
(.333 member)
24/05/23 05:14 AM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

Now thats nice !
You rarely see a modified bolt handle on a lee, a very handy stalking rifle in an excellent calibre.

Roger


Marrakai
(.416 member)
25/05/23 03:52 PM
Re: Lee Speed at Auction

Ha! Never even imagined such a thing

Thanks lancaster!



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