| C_Davidson |
| (.224 member) |
| 02/01/12 10:25 AM |
Building Lee Speed mimic, and hello
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I'm new here. Joined just to learn about Lee Speed rifles.
I'm planning to build a rifle mimicking the Lee Speed using a new unissued No4 MkI receiver I have. It will be highly modified to make it sportier. The barrel will be from a No4 that I will have bored out and chambered for .375 2 1/2 NE. I have a gunsmith lined up to do that work. He actually has the chamber reamer. I take my inspiration from here: http://www.lee-enfieldrifles.com/nitro.html I also have a gunsmithing friend giving me advice who has built a .375 on a Lee-Enfield action.
Everything was going along smoothly until last night, when I read on-line that Kynoch round nosed loads won't feed from a military .303 magazine. I note at the ballistics page at the above linked site loads are given for spire point bullets. I haven't been able to get hold of my friend to learn what bullets he might have used. Has anyone here experience getting .375 NE rounds to feed from a .303 magazine. I actually have several Santa Fe five-round magazines for Lee-Enfields, both numbers one and four, and will be using one of these for my project. I intend the rifle mainly for shooting round nosed cast bullets, if they can be made to feed.
Has anyone modified the military Lee-Enfield butt plate to have more of a sporter shape? I'm wondering if I do it what problems I might encounter. Or, should I just go with a classic orange recoil pad?
I'll modify the safety lever to make it easier to throw. Also, I will use what I can a button type cocking piece, one of the round ones, to give it more of an authentic look. I'm still consideering what to do about a stock and sights.
Any thoughts or advice on this project would be greatly appreciated.
I've been studying the archives and see a lot of very knowledgeable folks here. I look forward to dredging for more info on these beautiful rifles.
| darwinmauser |
| (.300 member) |
| 03/01/12 08:47 AM |
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Re: Building Lee Speed mimic, and hello
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All original Lee Speeds were built on the MLE, LEC or #1 actions , the #4 action is a very different animal. You can build it into a sporter ,(Parker Hale built thousands) but it won't bear more than a passing resemblance to a Lee Speed. Yes the #4 is stronger but the MLE /#1 action is quite adequate. I to am building a LEE Speed 375, barrel from A&B.
Pete
| C_Davidson |
| (.224 member) |
| 03/01/12 09:27 AM |
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Re: Building Lee Speed mimic, and hello
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Pete, I have a Complete No4 action, and two No4 receivers that I'd like to use up. All are of the MkI* variety. I also have two No4 barrels, not attached to anything, that can be rebored to larger calibers. It makes sense to work with what I've got.
The .375 is of most interest to me right now. I'd really like to hear from others with experience with it. An alternative is to chamber for the .375/444. It is supposed to feed well from a standard .303 magazine, and delivers more power than the .375 2 1/2-inch. There are references to it buried here in various forum archives.
I have pictures of Lee Speeds with solid steel butt plates, and others with trap door butt plates, much like the military items. However, the trap door butt plates have more of a sporter shape, tapered toward the toe. I'm wondering if a steel military butt plate could be modified to the sporter shape. A solid steel sporter butt plate isn't a problem.
One of my projects is a 35/303. In a practical way it is as powerful as a .375, delivering a 300 grain bullet at 2000 fps, compared to a 270 grain bullet at 2000 fps. I'd like the .375 just for fun, but I want it to be nice, like a Lee Speed.
| Rowdy |
| (.275 member) |
| 04/01/12 12:46 AM |
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Re: Building Lee Speed mimic, and hello
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I have only seen a couple of 375 Lee Speeds but I seem to remember that the top inch or so of the front side grooves had been cut away leaving a slot - this would allow the rounds to sit more parallel to the bore I suppose?
Andrew
| darwinmauser |
| (.300 member) |
| 05/01/12 02:26 AM |
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Re: Building Lee Speed mimic, and hello
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I understand that you have the receiver's and action available and would like to use them and that's all good as far as it goes . The #4 made into a Lee Speed style rifle is a bit like a ruger #1 and a Farquharson , they're both falling block's but they're a world apart . Now having said that a #4 can make a damn fine rifle , wood is available from Gunparts corp which could be restyled to look a bit more Lee Speed like . Reboring the barrel is doable although I'd say an A&B would be more economical but then, it lack's the nock's form , the magazine could be modified / shortened , or you could find one made by Gibbs who converted these to 45/70 years ago. The normal Lee Speed rear sight is pretty much unobtainium unless your luck is so good you win lotto regularly ,other than that if I get time I'll compare the butt plates on my Lee Speeds and the military one.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=14784
Here's a Parker Hale effort from the late 60's
Cheers
Pete
| Story |
| (.333 member) |
| 05/01/12 12:49 PM |
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Re: Building Lee Speed mimic, and hello
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C. Davidson,
For rear sights, I'd recommend SARCO. Check your PMs.
CLASSIC whITwORTh STYLE ENGLISh 3 LEAF EXPRESS SIGhTS
List Price $125.00 SARCO SPECIAL! (A-D)
$49.95 3 for $138.95
• Marked 100, 200 & 300 yard folding leafs
• Slide assy. is dovetailed in base
• Brand new, meticulous manufacture
Available in 4 different styles:
A. 3 folding leaves; flat bottom MSR220
B. 1 fixed, 2 folding leaves; flat bottom MSR218
C. 3 folding leaves; round bottom MSR221
D. 1 fixed, 2 folding leaves; round bottom MSR219
E. Folding leaf express sight set without base (to
use in your own design or in a barrel
dovetail) MSR233 $34.50
http://www.sarcoinc.com/12-01-11%201-9.pdf
| Story |
| (.333 member) |
| 05/01/12 12:57 PM |
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Re: Building Lee Speed mimic, and hello
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Also, wrt to the buttplate, look at this
California riflesmth Lon Paul in 348 Win, from this thread
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....;gonew=1#UNREAD
| 458Win |
| (.333 member) |
| 05/01/12 07:24 PM |
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Re: Building Lee Speed mimic, and hello
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There are two sides to everything
Here is the other
| Story |
| (.333 member) |
| 06/01/12 05:39 AM |
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Re: Building Lee Speed mimic, and hello
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Quote:
There are two sides to everything
Heh. Did you ever do a thread just on this rifle?
| Sarg |
| (.400 member) |
| 06/01/12 06:34 AM |
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Re: Building Lee Speed mimic, and hello
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I posted the pixs a while back & a thread is here .
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=160955&an=0&page=1#Post160955
| C_Davidson |
| (.224 member) |
| 06/01/12 08:22 AM |
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Re: Building Lee Speed mimic, and hello
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I've been researching the .375 2 1/2-inch flanged nitro express in the No4 action, and here's what I've come up with. Initially I was all enthused about the conversion. Then I read somewhere on-line that Kynoch cartridges won't feed from a standard .303 military magazine. That was discouraging. I got to digging deeper and then found on the Mauser forum here that there were different loadings of the .375 in the old Lee Speed days, and some would work through the Lee Speed action and some wouldn't. The nominal OAL for the .375 is 3.1" The OAL of the .303 is 3.05" You can see already that the .375 won't fit in the .303 magazine. Making matters worse, Kynock is supposed to load .375 to 3.15" Back in the old days, .375 was used in modified Mannlichers, the older ones for rimmed cartridges. The rimmed 6.5mm Mannlicher has a rim and head diameter essentially the same as the .375 (and the .303) However, due to the fact the Mannlicher magazine is also too short to load a 3.1" round, .375 for the Mannlicher were loaded to 2.96 OAL. Different ammunition manufactures in the old days loaded cartridges to there own specs, not to a common spec as is done today. So, for Mannlichers, and obviously Lee Speeds, too, ammo loaded to 2.96 would feed, and the double gun ammo wouldn't. I now surmise I can proceed with the project, using handloads, and not factory Kynock rounds, and make the .375 NE feed through the action.
Since new Kynock cost $10 a shot, I've always planned on using handloads based on .405 Winchester brass anyway, which is much cheaper. (I might use more expensive Bertram brass, just to get the head stamp.) So loading to the correct length to feed through a magazine won't be a problem. I've planned the .375 rifle as a cast bullet shooter anyway. There aren't any good 270 grain cast bullet moulds available that I have found. The .375 is normally loaded with 270 grainers. So, I've figured on having a custom mould made. Doing so, I could control the shape of the bullet nose to optimize feeding from a .303 magazine. Of course there is always the option of using lighter bullets loaded to an even shorter OAL.
As mentioned above, I took my initial inspiration from here:http://www.lee-enfieldrifles.com/nitro.html I actually talked with the owner on the phone a couple of days ago and got a long BS explanation of how to make the .375 feed through the .303 magazine. He obviously isn't aware of the length issue.
I'd like to know how others feel about this. I still want to kick ideas around.
My project will progress slowly, but I will try to post more on the feeding issue as I learn more.
| C_Davidson |
| (.224 member) |
| 06/01/12 09:03 AM |
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Re: Building Lee Speed mimic, and hello
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Story, those are interesting sights. It would be cool to have a row of folding leaves. However, I'm Thinking of what John Taylor wrote in African Rifles and Cartridges, that it is best to have just a single standing rear sight inclined toward the muzzle, with a notch just deep enough to allow the bead to snuggle down all the way. With my eyesight, an open rear sight would have to be located about halfway down the barrel to be usable. I can't imagine a row of folders looking good that far down, but they might. It's something to think about.
also, I have Lyman receiver sights of steel made specifically for the No4 rifle. A peep sight would certainly be better for me to use, and the steel could be blued to match the rest of the rifle. It would be exactly a Lee Speed style sight, but it would allow for better hits.
| Story |
| (.333 member) |
| 09/01/12 07:23 AM |
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Re: Building Lee Speed mimic, and hello
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Quote:
a single standing rear sight inclined toward the muzzle, with a notch just deep enough to allow the bead to snuggle down all the way. With my eyesight, an open rear sight would have to be located about halfway down the barrel to be usable. I can't imagine a row of folders looking good that far down, but they might. It's something to think about.
One of the SARCO option is a fixed near sight, with two folding leafs for longer ranges. I've got one of those slated for a project already.
Quote:
also, I have Lyman receiver sights of steel made specifically for the No4 rifle. A peep sight would certainly be better for me to use, and the steel could be blued to match the rest of the rifle. It would be exactly a Lee Speed style sight, but it would allow for better hits.
If that works better, by all means goferit. What sort of front sights? Banded?
Quote:
I posted the pixs a while back & a thread is here .
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=160955&an=0&page=1#Post160955
Oh hey, missed that - thanks.
| C_Davidson |
| (.224 member) |
| 09/01/12 11:02 AM |
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Re: Building Lee Speed mimic, and hello
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Story, I'd go with a banded front sight most likely, just because I like the looks of them. The rear sight solution will come to me in time.
I'm really having trouble finding correct sling attachment eyelets, the ones with a big hole through them, soldered onto the underside of the barrel, and screwed into the butt stock. I'm sure everyone knows the type I mean. They're intended to take a sling that is tied on. Like this one: http://www.jeffsoutfitters.com/SLING1025...p;categoryid=62
| Taylor416 |
| (.300 member) |
| 09/01/12 11:11 AM |
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Re: Building Lee Speed mimic, and hello
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Many years ago, I came into possession of a SMLE, cheap and rough (don't ask which model, I can't remember) that had been chambered for the 38/55, I grabbed it as a project for load development etc. I started loading .375 235gn projectiles but found they were not long enough to catch on the forward tabs of the magazine, so I had to load them singly. By trial and error I loaded 255gn spire points and loaded them with a bit of length to catch on the tabs at the front of the magazine to hold them in the magazine. I could have bypassed this problem by relocating the forward tabs, but simply didn't get around to it.
I kept the loads down and found the rifle shot a very tight group with open sights. After load development I found that ten shots averaged 1844fps over the chronograph. I shot quite a few feral pigs & horses before I moved it on.
The next chap upped the loads considerably and found that it handled them well.
cheers
| Phillip |
| (.300 member) |
| 10/01/12 03:19 AM |
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Re: Building Lee Speed mimic, and hello
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Here's my real one...then the "hunter" model
| simonsaorsa |
| (.300 member) |
| 17/01/12 05:29 AM |
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Re: Building Lee Speed mimic, and hello
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Not 375 I Know but Status Guns in New Zealand offer to re-barrel lee enfields to 35/305. You might want to check them out as an alternative answer perhaps. Their website is www.statusguns.com.
| C_Davidson |
| (.224 member) |
| 17/01/12 11:29 AM |
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Re: Building Lee Speed mimic, and hello
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I'm planning a 35/303 rifle as well, although it will be a modern style sporter, not a classic like a Lee Speed. I expect to launch 300 grain cast bullets at 2,000 fps. It will be purely a cast bullet rifle for me. I have several sets of Fajen and other sporter stock sets to chose from. It will be in the '60s era style. A 45/70 or 45/90 on a No4 rifle action is on my wish list. Just bought a pair of Gibbs Summit Rifle magazines today.
| simonsaorsa |
| (.300 member) |
| 18/01/12 05:58 AM |
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Re: Building Lee Speed mimic, and hello
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there's more on this website elsewhere about 35/303.
| C_Davidson |
| (.224 member) |
| 18/01/12 11:54 AM |
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Re: Building Lee Speed mimic, and hello
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I'd have to look the numbers up again, but there isn't, as I recall, a lot of difference ballistically between a 35/303 and a .375 NE. The 35/303 should drill deeper. If I didn't want to have a .375, just for the heck of it, I'd probably just stick with 35/303 for oddball rifles. It does feed reliably from military magazines. Financially, there's no way to justify building exotic rifles, but I'm going to do it anyway, just because I can. I'll have beautiful pieces I'll never get my money back out of.
| darwinmauser |
| (.300 member) |
| 21/01/12 11:53 PM |
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Re: Building Lee Speed mimic, and hello
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Quote:
Story, I'd go with a banded front sight most likely, just because I like the looks of them. The rear sight solution will come to me in time.
I'm really having trouble finding correct sling attachment eyelets, the ones with a big hole through them, soldered onto the underside of the barrel, and screwed into the butt stock. I'm sure everyone knows the type I mean. They're intended to take a sling that is tied on. Like this one: http://www.jeffsoutfitters.com/SLING1025...p;categoryid=62
Get in touch with Brithunter , from memory he has those sling mounts or at least the one that screws into the wood, the barrel one is one of those things you will probably have to make up.
| C_Davidson |
| (.224 member) |
| 03/02/12 03:24 PM |
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Re: Building Lee Speed mimic, and hello
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A craftsman who occasionally visits this forum has offered to make a stock for my Lee Speed mimic. here is what he has to say:
" I'll do a second pattern for one with a petite english
> cheekpiece. I have several hundred early british double rifle and single
> shot and magazine rifle original "take-off" stocks here which is a handy
> reference to styles from different periods. I might add a specific style
> of cheekrest to the pattern..........here is your chance for a request
> if you favour the style of a particular maker from a particular period.
> So if you want a Rigby, Holland, Fraser, Westley etc etc.......I can get
> a very good reference. I can even narrow this down to individual
> stockers styles from these companies. For instance, the WR "LT" marked
> rifles are always rather nice in style. Ditto the treatment of the comb
> nose."
OK. I don't know enough about the differences in stocking styles to even make a wild guess at what might look the best. Anyone got any ideas?
| tinker |
| (.416 member) |
| 03/02/12 03:38 PM |
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Re: Building Lee Speed mimic, and hello
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Do some google image searches.
Go to main google page then find and click on 'images' then punch in some search words like Purdey cheekpiece or Westley Richards stock or whatever, and see what comes up.
Copy and paste stuff you like to the stockmaker and see what he says.
Also, please send me a personal message including the contact info on this guy.
I might have a WJ Jeffrey stock for him to run...
Cheers
Tinker
| jc5 |
| (.300 member) |
| 03/02/12 03:57 PM |
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Re: Building Lee Speed mimic, and hello
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Hey Tinker, how's life in greener pastures? We should catch up. Still need some pics from you for the Lee Speed book.
...
If someone is making fine "Lee-Speed style" stocks, I could use one for a project....
| C_Davidson |
| (.224 member) |
| 04/02/12 03:50 AM |
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Re: Building Lee Speed mimic, and hello
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Also, please send me a personal message including the contact info on this guy.
I might have a WJ Jeffrey stock for him to run...
Cheers
Tinker
Tinker, I can do that, but first, he's outside the US, and sending him a stock to duplicate is out of the question. However, he can ship copies of stocks he has patterns for out. He's making up patterns for Lee Speed style stocks, and some others, because he thinks there may be some local demand for them, he's not catering to the world market. I just got lucky, he contacted me, rather than I contacting him. His work won't come cheap to Americans accustomed to Boyds prices, and the like. I'll still PM you if you like.
| tinker |
| (.416 member) |
| 04/02/12 04:57 AM |
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Re: Building Lee Speed mimic, and hello
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jc5
Life is quite good!
Ping me contact info, I've killed a mobile device which held your digits.
C.Davidson
I'll pass. My Jeffrey is fine for me, the interest was around sharing the stock pattern with others, and that would be more sweat from my brow than I want to spare.
Cheers
Tinker
| leeenfield |
| (.275 member) |
| 11/02/12 08:56 AM |
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Re: Building Lee Speed mimic, and hello
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I am also re-creating a Lee Speed on a No1 action which has already been cut down to 25". The barrel is well worn but I am going to try very hard to make it shoot in its original.303. If that doesn't work I'll be looking to re-bore to .35 or .375. I'm not sure, however, that there is enough meat in a No1 barrel to re-bore to .375 (i's .668" at the muzzle). I'm still trying to research this point. Have you any knowledge about this?
| Sarg |
| (.400 member) |
| 03/03/17 12:00 PM |
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Re: Building Lee Speed mimic, and hello
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Just read your old post here & I had a light BSA SMLE profile barrel rebored out to .375, was hoping for 8mm but needed more, can't tell you how it shoots as both barrels stuck in the US !
| BigEyeBob |
| (.275 member) |
| 29/03/17 07:43 PM |
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Re: Building Lee Speed mimic, and hello
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Ive just finished a magazine conversion for the 375 x 2 1/2 FNE for my Le1 action project . I havent got the barrel chambered as yet so havent been able to see if it feeds correctly Project has been held up due to funds , have the stock and all the bits .Now I have my larger lathe up and running I will be able to chamber the barrel ,when I get a reamer.