Administrator

(.700 member)

14/03/24 02:45 AM

Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

Alas I was let shoot a number of black powder handguns at mebclub a month ago. One was a Remington 1858 replica. A walker or dragoon revolver was also in attendance. And a Colt 1851 or 1860.

Alas I was also told second hand they were cheap!

So a near completely new Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP revolver is on its way to me. A$245 so not expensive. The two dealer transfer fees of $200 does hurt though.

Needs one nipple replaced on the revolver cylinder. I'd like one or more extra cylinders. And FFFG BP, that may take a while. Ball mould, wads, caps etc, powder flask. I have a measure already. And a holster of course!

(.700 member)

14/03/24 04:38 AM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

Neat - there is a conversion "kit"(includes cylinder and firing pin plate) for that revolver to convert it to .45 Schofield or Colt, as well as these kits for all the other cap and ball revolvers.
https://www.buffaloarms.com/uberti-1860-45-colt-kk1860u.html

(.416 member)

14/03/24 06:45 AM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

You’re going to love that thing!
Just as I mentioned in the other cap & ball revolver thread, the 44cal versions of the Army and Navy revolvers are the best.

(.300 member)

14/03/24 06:56 AM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

Nice revolver. It appears to be in good shape and it has good case coloring on the frame. I've always been a big fan of single-action sixguns and have more than a few, but no cap and ball guns as of yet. However, I do own a Uberti sixgun in .38 Special. It's a Colt Single Action Army relica on a 3/4 scale frame (Cimarron's version of the Uberti Stallion). Not as tough as my Rugers, but it's nicely balanced, the fit and finish on mine is excellent, and it just feels good in the hand. Definitely one of my favorites.

From the photos, it looks like some improvements were made to yours by the prior owner. The front sight appears to have been replaced with a larger, patridge type. Much better than the rounded, thin blade that comes from the factory in my opinion, the factory ones are just too thin for me. I'm wondering if the rounded notch on the hammer that serves as the rear sight could be squared up to give you a better sight picture. I seem to remember reading about someone doing that somewhere. However, I can't recall if the hammers and frames Uberti uses are actually case-hardened or just colored that way using chemicals, like Ruger did on their Vaquero revolvers. (Over time and use, the coloring on those frames rubs off.) So, if your hammer is case hardened, squaring the notch might be more difficult than it sounds. One of the other members may be able to answer that for you.

Enjoy your new sixgun! They are a lot of fun to own and shoot, but you have to be careful. They can be quite addictive!

J

(.416 member)

14/03/24 06:58 AM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

Well done John!
It will be a load of fun creating loads of smoke - will keep the mossies away!

Administrator

(.700 member)

15/03/24 02:45 AM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

Quote:

Neat - there is a conversion "kit"(includes cylinder and firing pin plate) for that revolver to convert it to .45 Schofield or Colt, as well as these kits for all the other cap and ball revolvers.
https://www.buffaloarms.com/uberti-1860-45-colt-kk1860u.html

Quote:

Kirst Konverter for Uberti 1860 45 Colt Schofield
Be the first to review this product
$394.79
In stock
Item Number KK1860U
Details
We are now offering a Kirst Cartridge Konverter for the 1860 Colt made by Uberti. These can be fitted to the 2nd and 3rd generation Colts, usually with very little adjustment. The 1860 model is a five shot, 45 Schofield with safety notches between each chamber, featuring a beautiful color case hardened Konverter Ring and Loading Gate. Our currently offered 1861 Colt Ejector also fits the 1860 barrel perfectly (item #KKEA1860PU). No FFL required, SASS legal and lifetime manufacturer warranty. All Kirst Cartridge Konverters are precision CNC machined in the USA from 4140 steel and heat-treated. They cylinders are rated "For Black Powder or Equivalent Loads Only" which includes the current Cowboy Loads on the market. The Kirst Cartridge Konverter must NEVER be installed in brass frame revolvers or .36 caliber pistols. Not recommended for original antique revolvers.

If you have a second generation Colt it may have been made by Pietta or Uberti. In order to tell you must measure the length of the cylinder from the base of the cylinder to the face of the cylinder. The Pietta will measure 1.91" and the Uberti will measure 1.87".

Please see our selection of cowboy ammunition.

Yes I saw .45 LC cylinders were available.

The ones I looked at seemed to have a plate at the back of the cylinder with firing pins etc. But looked like it could only be replaced by taking the whole cylinder out.

This one looks like it might be able to be reloaded by thumbing open that little "latch"? And singly loaded round by round?

Looks like a worthwhile addition.

One or more extra black powder cylinders would be useful too.

(.700 member)

15/03/24 03:30 AM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

This is a new cylinder and has a single loading gate and firing pin. Pretty cool stuff.
When you get your revolver, measure the cylinder mouth diameters - all 6 of them and record the numbers. Measure the groove to groove diameter as well.
The cylinder should be .001" to .002" larger than the groove diameter, then you use a ball that is about .003" to .004" larger than the new cylinder diameter. If the mouth of the cylinder has nicely rounded & smooth corner, instead of sharp, when you seat the ball, it will draw(swage) into the chamber and not shave. This will give an even tighter fit into the cylinder & LENGTHEN the ball slightly, also improving accuracy.
Once these changes are made, this cap 'n ball revolver will shoot better than about any modern .38, 9mm, .357 or .45 Colt revolver, accuracy wise.
We've done this to a bunch of them, from the 1847 Walker to the 1885 Remington. Great improvement in all of them.

(.400 member)

15/03/24 01:08 PM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

Nice score! I have a couple of the Uberti 1860's as well as a newer "Colt" 2nd Generation 1860 (said to be assembled in the USA of parts from Uberti?).
You just cannot beat the 1860 for pointability, feel, looks, fun, & accuracy.
Follow what Darryl said about chamber mouth vs barrel groove diameter.
- Mike

(.333 member)

15/03/24 11:48 PM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

Nice one John! I started my black powder adventure with a revolver, a cheap brass framed one. My wife got it for me for Christmas '73. I took it to the farm to try it out that afternoon. All the men went with me to see the spectacle!!! And a spectacle it was! I failed to put grease over the balls and had serious chain fire, like all six went off at once! The ball in bottom cylinder lodged in frame. Oddly enough it didn't damage the gun or ME! I shot it for many years afterward until the frame got hammered out, giving the cyl a lot of play. I then made a steel ring to take up the play and shot it some more! Sold or traded it, I don't remember.....Have fun!...LK

(.333 member)

18/03/24 06:04 AM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

Agree or not, the 1860 Army is the most elegant single action revolver ever made. I dearly love them, especially once a taller fron sight is installed.

Yes, you can take a needle file to the hammer notch rear sight and widen, deepen and square it up. I've done it with all my several percussion revolvers, (1849's, 51's, 60's and 62's). It makes all the difference in the world regarding accuracy. With a new front sight carefully filed in, most will shoot with any modern revolver.

The big Dragoons are cool but too heavy unless you're horseback and using pommel holsters. They're fun at the bench.

(.700 member)

18/03/24 09:36 AM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

Have to agree with that. The 1860 Army is the best handling of all of them, however my Bro shoots cowboy action with a pair of 1851 Navy's and does really well.
The civilian model I had with fluted cylinder was even nicer. (imho)

(.333 member)

18/03/24 10:06 AM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

I like the 51 Navies and one of those was my first C&B revolver.....goodness, 49 years ago!!!! A couple years ago I picked up an 1861...or is it 62...Navy. Like an 1860 only the cylinder isn't rebated. It's pretty sweet as well, I just like the 44's better.

(.416 member)

19/03/24 07:24 AM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

LK
How does a 'çhain fire' start when all the balls are rammed into the cylinder?
I must be missing something here????

(.333 member)

19/03/24 12:45 PM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

One of the explanations I've frequently read is they don't start at the front. Somehow a spark gets around a cap or perhaps a cap fell off and they start at the back. Never having experienced a chain fire I have nothing personal to draw from. I don't know. I would like to keep it that way.

(.416 member)

19/03/24 07:17 PM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

I was always led to believe they start at the front, hence the need to front-fill with Vaseline or similar.

Most of my cap'n'ball shooting has been with an 1856 3rd Model Tranter, and I would NEVER forego the Vaseline seal. Might be possible to go buy another Uberti, Pietta,
or Ruger Old Army at the local gunshop, but wrecking an original Tranter would be unforgivable.

One year I came second in the black powder aggregate at the Arafura Pistol Club with that Tranter, top-scoring over all those modern spaghetti guns and stainless Rugers.
Beaten only by a Webley .22 single-shot with modified chamber insert! Not technically cheating by the letter of the law, but hardly in the spirit of the event!
Some R-soles will go to any lengths to win...

(.333 member)

20/03/24 02:23 AM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

That's the same thing I heard for decades. I've always used a BP lube, usually of my own making, over the ball and in almost 50 years have never had a chain fire. Even so, to me it seems amazingly difficult for a spark to get past a swaged in ball without lube, then get past all that remain.

By the same token, unless a cap has fallen off, as tight as my caps fit, it seems it would be quite a feat for a spark to get past a cap and then all that remain.

I expect that's why I qualified my previous post with, "I don't know" and hope to never find out. All I know for a fact is they do occur.

(.400 member)

20/03/24 04:17 AM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

I've never had a chain fire either - touch wood - always use BP lube over the balls tho.

Now "maybe" if one had ill fitting or undersized balls the flash over could cause the event?

………….Having undersized balls is a terrible embarrassment

- Mike

(.700 member)

20/03/24 05:04 AM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

LOL Mike. I nor my bro has every had a chain fire, either, using cap and ball revolvers.
I cannot 'see" how it could occur, but do fill the chamber mouths with grease of one sort or another. Back in the 70's, I like everyone else, used Crisco shortening.

(.333 member)

24/03/24 11:30 PM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

The chain fire begins at the front of the cylinder. I have shot revolvers at night and you would be surprised at how much fire blasts out of between the cylinder and the barrel. Yes , the chain fire was from poor fitting, irregular balls. I began using Crisco over the balls which eliminated the problem but accuracy was lousy. I picked up the correct perfectly round Ball size from a gun show, I believe they were .454 and the accuracy was great. I could actually cut a ring off of the ball when loading.

(.333 member)

24/03/24 11:32 PM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

Man,,, $400 for a conversion cylinder??? You could but another gun for that!!

(.700 member)

25/03/24 03:33 AM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

Yes, but - you wouldn't have a "conversion" revolver.
My bro, just for kicks, did that with a Uberti 1849 .32 "pocket" revolver.
It's fun to shoot.

Administrator

(.700 member)

25/03/24 07:10 AM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

Quote:

Man,,, $400 for a conversion cylinder??? You could but another gun for that!!

Not here.

Administrator

(.700 member)

25/03/24 07:12 AM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

Quote:

Yes, but - you wouldn't have a "conversion" revolver.
My bro, just for kicks, did that with a Uberti 1849 .32 "pocket" revolver.
It's fun to shoot.

I'll probably get one, one day. Would be fun. And not be another handgun on my licence.

Administrator

(.700 member)

28/06/24 04:13 PM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

I now have 100 .454 balls, 100 caps. FFg powder, FFFg is better but need to source some.

I understand to load it, one puts the powder charge in, the unlubed ball on top, and then the lube on top.

What lube is used on the top of the ball in the cylinder?

(.416 member)

28/06/24 09:45 PM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

I just use Vaseline (petroleum jelly) straight out of the jar, applied with a small stainless spatula (about 10mm wide, rounded end)
but have noticed others have given different advice in previous threads, including commercial lubes.
Might not matter that much in practice.

BTW I start with .457 balls for the first couple of cylinders, then switch to .454 when the fouling makes ramming a .457 ball difficult.
In my original Tranters accuracy does not change perceptibly.

Administrator

(.700 member)

28/06/24 11:09 PM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

Thanks. Anyone posting the names of the commercial lubes, would be appreciated.

I bought .454 balls as that was listed on the Uberti website as appropriate.

I see how they go.

My club has a once a month BP day but itsca month away. Non doubt attending that the local guys will be able to provide some advice and ideas.

Does anyone know recommended powder charges of FFFg and FFg?

I have FFg and can't get FFFg yet.

(.700 member)

29/06/24 01:25 AM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

I think Tony's suggestion of Vaseline is a good one. I know it makes a GREAT BP lube for bullets in BP ctgs. when mixed with Beeswax, 60% Vas., 40% Beeswax.

(.416 member)

29/06/24 03:50 AM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

I second the petroleum jelly/beeswax blend for all BP shooting. Simply adjust the ratio for the weather. More beeswax for hotter seasons, more PJ for colder days.
Some use a lard based over ball lube or something like crisco. I don’t know how hot it is where you are - Winter, right? - but if I tried only petroleum jelly or shortening this time of year, it would be melting down the front of my cylinder!

As for the powder charge, I would simply fill a chamber up to .454” below the cylinder mouth expecting the powder and ball column to be roughly flush with the cylinder mouth and then a little below after pushing the ball home compressing the powder and leaving enough space on top for your smear of lube.
I don’t think you need all that much lube for a pistol.

(.416 member)

29/06/24 09:48 AM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

Huvius:
Petroleum jelly on your side of the pond might be slightly different from the Vaseline sold here in Oz. Our stuff doesn't melt at normal "room" temperatures, and where I live, it can be hot! Never had it melt on the firing line.

Remembering too that the over-ball lube is probably more for chain-fire protection than for leading prevention in the bore.

(.700 member)

29/06/24 12:09 PM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

I would think it likely is the same. If named Vaseline, it would have to be the same.
Petroleum Jelly, ie: Vaseline, is a petroleum wax, not an oil or gelly still being a petroleum product that does not mix with BP fouling. That is why it works with BP.
Most petroleum products do not mix with BP fouling.
Vaseline does.
That is why Vas./BW makes a good BP lube. I have used in on REAL bullets in muzzleloading rifles to good effect as well as in a .50/90 Rolling Block and even with smokeless loads to 2,200fps in a .45 rifle with cast bullets.
Amazing stuff.

(.300 member)

29/06/24 12:28 PM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

I often use 26 grains of FFg in my 1860 when shooting round ball. Velocity is a bit below that of an equivalent charge of FFFg, but I've won enough matches with it that I don't worry about it.

Keith advised using a tallow-soaked felt wad under the ball. This was something he'd picked up from Civil War vets or their contemporaries. If you want to give this a try, his source of felt was old felt hats. The felt was dipped in melted tallow and allowed to cool, then the wads were punched. If you don't have a wad punch of the correct diameter, a 45 caliber rifle case or pistol case can be used. Lay the lubed felt on the end grain of a piece of soft wood, press the case mouth on the felt, and give it a smack with a mallet. If you're going to do much of this, drill out the primer pocket with a 4-5mm drill bit and poke them out with a splinter of wood.

Administrator

(.700 member)

29/06/24 09:09 PM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

How does a tallow soaked wad or any greased wad affect the black powder?

(.700 member)

30/06/24 12:29 AM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

Good note, Jim.
Does not effect the powder.
Elmer wrote that up in Sixguns for Keith & in "The Rifleman" magazine.
I've never tried it, but if he says it works, well damn it, it works.

(.400 member)

30/06/24 01:17 AM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

Daryl,
Well said: "if he says it works, well damn it, it works".

(.416 member)

30/06/24 06:41 AM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

My gut tells me that you would certainly lose a few grains of powder using a tallow soaked felt wad - not just in space used up but in unburnt granules getting thrust into the underside of the wad. That must be happening to some extent in my opinion.
It works, sure, but unless you recover a blown wad to inspect one wouldn’t know for sure.

As to chain firing, I suppose the smear of lube over the ball is preventative but a ball skived at the cylinder mouth is a pretty good seal in itself - that is if the mouth of the chamber isn’t tighter than the body of the chamber. I’ve heard of that but haven’t measured any of my revolvers for that.

(.300 member)

30/06/24 02:38 PM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

Keith was writing of the use of a cap and ball revolver as a working revolver. He felt the use of lubed wads improved utility as in contributed to a reduction in fouling/leading.

I've played with >30 1860s (originals and repros) in a Ransom Rest, tweaking one factor at a time and seeing what the effect was. Testing from temps of -25C to 46C, I've not seen any significant effect of tallow-lubed wads on velocity. (I suspect this is due at least in part to seating the ball to the same depth with and without wads: the charge in the wad loads are compressed more than the loads without wads.) Groups were fairly consistent, from the first cylinder to the 8th.

With the right lube smeared over the seated ball, you can usually get similar results. The lube is messy, and shot-to-shot consistency can be an issue. It is also a pain to holster-carry a revolver loaded in this manner. I think Keith--and the folks he learned from--were trying to avoid this.

(Wads dipped in beeswax resulted in a slight--appx 25 fps--increase in velocity but less-consistent grouping. Usually by the 5th cylinder or so, fouling became an issue.)

Curiously, I've never had an accidental chain fire when using balls that were oversized for the chamber, even when shot without lube (and I've fired hundreds of shots this way). I've been able to experimentally re-create chain fires by leaving caps off a loaded chamber, but even then it doesn't happen every time.

If you really get into shooting a C&B revolver, there are all kinds of tricks and tuning you can do to improve or optimize performance for your purposes. In that way it is like any other pistol.

Administrator

(.700 member)

30/06/24 06:21 PM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

One of the guys at the BP club had preloaded "cartridges". Powder, ball, maybe a wad in the middle in toilet paper wrapped cylinders.

How are these made?

Are they less consistent in firing?

Do they have to be pricked before inserting into the cylinder? I don't believe he did.

(.700 member)

01/07/24 01:33 AM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

If there was no "twisted tail" on the bottom of the 'ctg', then no, pricking the 'cgt' would not be necessary.
The cap blast would easily penetrate even bond paper to ignite the charge.
Testing would need to be done to 'test' different ctg. designs.
In my rifle ctgs. the base is torn off, the powder drained into the bore - THEN the ctg. and ball are seated on the powder, crushing the ctg. into a wad between powder and ball.
This helps seal the ball from the flame of the powder.
In the revolver, you would still have to use an oversized ball to create a seal between the powder and flame.

(.300 member)

01/07/24 01:33 AM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

When I mess with them, I'm still making cartridges using nitrated paper wrapped around a wood former, but there is a commercial system with good instructions and video here: https://cartridgekits.com/

Typically, you don't need to break the paper before inserting in the cylinder: compression of the cartridge when seating the ball will split the cartridge, or the flash from the cap will burn through. I've not noticed any loss of consistency when using them, though they do tend to be a bit less accurate than match loads loaded as mixed components. I only make them with conicals (vs. round balls), and I'm sure this is a factor in accuracy.

(.700 member)

01/07/24 11:44 PM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

Seems to me the issue nitrated ctgs. contained the 226gr. conical for the Model of 1860.
Might have been lighter, though.

Administrator

(.700 member)

21/07/24 11:51 PM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

I've got a question regarding original handguns of this model and similar models. And Hollywood.

First seeing that cylinders can be purchased which can be loaded with modern .45 Colt cartridges of suitable power I guess.

Hollywood often shows handguns in Westerns which look like front stuffing cylinder BP revolvers. But which are being reloaded with brass cartridges. Hollywood of course is rarely historically accurate.

But where old front stuffing revolvers in historical times, given a more modern upgrade in the 1800s with cartridge cylinders being purchasable? Extending their lives and allowing folk of limited means to modetise their handgun without needing to buy a whole new handgun.

(.700 member)

22/07/24 03:09 AM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

Jose Wales shows Clint Eastwood using "spare" cylinders in what is likely a m1860 Army revolver. Seems to me he also had an 1847 Walker.

(.333 member)

22/07/24 04:27 AM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

There was a couple popular conversions to cartridges. One was the Richards/Mason, which became the 1872 Colt Model and, another was the Thuer. I have read and seen a few conversions by blacksmiths/gunsmiths but they were obviously not production conversions.

I don't know of any cylinders that were available just to buy and swap out. One must remember that there was very few cartridges in existence at the time. The 45 Colt wasn't available until after 1873. The Richards/Mason conversion was chambered for the 44 Colt and, there was rimfire conversions available. The 1851 Colts were chambered in 38 Colt.

When Jose Wales changes out the cylinder of his 1858 Remington he is replacing the fired cylinder with another percussion cylinder that was previously loaded. Hollywood has that part right as the practice has been recorded by Civil War era chronicles.

Jose Wales also carried an 1849 Baby Dragoon in a shoulder holster.

I have the Uberti version of the 1872 Colt in 44 Colt and made my cases by shortening 44 Spl. and turning a few thousandths off the rim diameter. I'm shooting a 200 gr. Lee bullet that is the same as I shoot in my Uberti Schofield in 44-40. I was pleasantly surprised at the accuracy I was able to achieve with both revolvers, the '72 Colt in particular. The Schofield would shoot better if the sights weren't garbage....even after I worked them over so I could see the blade in the notch.

A large part of the character "Jose Wales" was inspired by a man who was from only about 10 miles south of where I live and, of course Hollywood took its liberties. His name was Bill Wilson. The yankees did not kill his wife and family but they did start the feud and Wilson became a horse thief/renegade. I used to work with his great, great grandson who still owns a part of the family farm. His name is also Bill Wilson and after he retired he wrote a small book about and began reenacting his ancestor.

If you pay attention, near the last of the movie, when the last fight is over and Jose is standing there bleeding and...I can't remember the bounty hunters name but, he says, "isn't that right Mr. Wilson." An Jose answers with that droll, "reckon so."

(.700 member)

22/07/24 12:12 PM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

Tks. I can now visualize Jose replacing the cylinder of a Rem. 58 with a loaded and capped one. He must have practised that a bit. Well done.
Interesting history lesson.
Seems to me, Jose just called the fellow, "Red Legs". I dont remember the boy's name.

Administrator

(.700 member)

22/07/24 06:16 PM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

Thanks gentlemen for the replies. So as guessed the Hollywood pistols using cartridges are either similar looking models or historical inaccuracies.

I can't imagine many actors or directors coping with scenes looking a revolvers cylinder with powder, ball and caps. I watched one Civil War movie where one woman instructed another how to load a muzzle loading. Tip some random amount of powder down the barrel. Put in a ball. Ramrod it down. No wads. Pull the hammer back and you're ready! The cap was obviously too difficult. Probably too dangerous as actors might shoot someone ...

Very information the Josey Wales/Bill Wilson comments. Always amazing t how informative and what personal connections our NE members have. Thanks.

(.333 member)

22/07/24 09:58 PM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

The individual charged with bringing in Josey Wales and who said, "isn't that right Mr. Wilson?" was his war time compatriot "Captain Fletcher". There was no first name given. "Captain Terrill" was the commander of the "Red Legs" and who Wales chased down and killed with his own sabre. The Red Legs were the guerrillas who killed Wales family and burned his home. They were a very real organization along the Kansas/Missouri border before and during the Civil War. And, of course Hollyweird took its license representing them.

https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/articl...-guerrilla-war/

https://www.legendsofamerica.com/red-legs-kansas/

Administrator

(.700 member)

22/07/24 10:25 PM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

I thought the Mr Wilson was one of the townsmen in the bar. The Captain Fletcher was talking to Josey Wales indirectly through the Mr Wilson.

However the name Wilson, may well have been used to "acknowledge" the real story individual.

(.333 member)

23/07/24 04:12 AM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

You could well be right and I'm disremembering....or just wishing there was an acknowledgement.

Administrator

(.700 member)

24/07/24 02:16 AM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

I don't like the sights on this Uberti. Just dry firing it so far. Maybe in anger this weekend coming.

The rear sight, the rear groove in the hammer looks too small compared to the front sight bar. Of course shouldn't be too hard to file a wider groove. As much as I'm two left hands and thumbs .

The Remington I shot at the range I remember as having better sights.

(.333 member)

24/07/24 04:43 AM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

I have a woodworking vise I lined with 2 layers of harness leather on each jaw. Bolted to my loading bench is the right height for all kinds of work. I clamp the revolver by the frame, cock the hammer and go to work with the needle files. As it isn't disassembled you can check your progress as you go and not go too far or have to reassemble the darn thing a half dozen times.

(.416 member)

24/07/24 09:25 AM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

Quote:

Just dry firing it so far.

I trust you don't mean this literally!
Best way known to chip or peen the nipples...

(.416 member)

24/07/24 09:46 AM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

Quote:

When I mess with them, I'm still making cartridges using nitrated paper wrapped around a wood former, but there is a commercial system with good instructions and video here: https://cartridgekits.com/

Typically, you don't need to break the paper before inserting in the cylinder: compression of the cartridge when seating the ball will split the cartridge, or the flash from the cap will burn through. I've not noticed any loss of consistency when using them, though they do tend to be a bit less accurate than match loads loaded as mixed components. I only make them with conicals (vs. round balls), and I'm sure this is a factor in accuracy.

I’ve made guncotton before which is, I’m guessing, a similar process to making nitrided paper with high cotton content paper.
Guncotton is fun for sure - still haven’t tried it in a cartridge yet though.

One little thing I ran into the other day is the effect the guncotton interacts with steel.
I had a plastic bag with some guncotton in it - open to keep it dry - sitting on top of some bullet molds (happened to be where I set it) and all of my molds within a few inches of the bag developed a fine dusty coat of rust!
I believe it is the residual sulphuric acid in the cotton aerating and settling around the proximity of the bag.
A similar thing happened when I put a plastic jug of hydrochloric acid in my cabinet and a bunch of my steel tools rusted in the cabinet. That was a half full gallon of acid for the pool with a tight cap.

The molds cleaned up easily enough fortunately.
It did make me think that there could be an alternate method of browning barrels using a sealed acidic environment though.

Now, back to your regular scheduled program. Which I totally dig. Love Josey Wales!

Administrator

(.700 member)

24/07/24 11:51 AM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

Quote:

Quote:

Just dry firing it so far.

I trust you don't mean this literally!
Best way known to chip or peen the nipples...

One chamber has no nipple.

Administrator

(.700 member)

07/11/24 01:24 AM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

The localmguys make their own Bore Butter. The commercial product is considered unsuitable on warm days. Their formula was either 50:50, or 75:25, Beeswax to Olive Oil.

Administrator

(.700 member)

07/11/24 01:36 AM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

What tools are essential ?

A powder flask with a measure.
A tool to help seat thevwad and ball sufficiently into the cylinder chambers.
A tool to help seat the cap on the nipple.

A nipple wrench?

I need a extra nipple. My revolver had only five.

A tooth brush for cleaning?
A brass brush to clean chambers?
Barisol?
Barisol spray?
Cleaning patches?
Barrel wire brush, Jagd, cleaning rod etc?
Lube applicator squeeze tube/container?
Needle nose pliers.

Later bullet dies for ball forging.
A means of melting, pouring lead etc.

Super fine cigarette papers.
A device to pre load powder, wads, ball.
Lacquer for the "cartridges".

Anything else? Any comments?

(.700 member)

07/11/24 02:35 AM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

Quote:

Quote:

When I mess with them, I'm still making cartridges using nitrated paper wrapped around a wood former, but there is a commercial system with good instructions and video here: https://cartridgekits.com/

Typically, you don't need to break the paper before inserting in the cylinder: compression of the cartridge when seating the ball will split the cartridge, or the flash from the cap will burn through. I've not noticed any loss of consistency when using them, though they do tend to be a bit less accurate than match loads loaded as mixed components. I only make them with conicals (vs. round balls), and I'm sure this is a factor in accuracy.

I’ve made guncotton before which is, I’m guessing, a similar process to making nitrided paper with high cotton content paper.
Guncotton is fun for sure - still haven’t tried it in a cartridge yet though.

One little thing I ran into the other day is the effect the guncotton interacts with steel.
I had a plastic bag with some guncotton in it - open to keep it dry - sitting on top of some bullet molds (happened to be where I set it) and all of my molds within a few inches of the bag developed a fine dusty coat of rust!
I believe it is the residual sulphuric acid in the cotton aerating and settling around the proximity of the bag.
A similar thing happened when I put a plastic jug of hydrochloric acid in my cabinet and a bunch of my steel tools rusted in the cabinet. That was a half full gallon of acid for the pool with a tight cap.

The molds cleaned up easily enough fortunately.
It did make me think that there could be an alternate method of browning barrels using a sealed acidic environment though.

Now, back to your regular scheduled program. Which I totally dig. Love Josey Wales!

The 'same' type of rusting will happen if you have an opened, but re-sealed plastic bottle of muriatic acid in the shop.

(.300 member)

11/11/24 05:59 PM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

Another option for making cartridges for a cap and ball revolver has been getting talked up lately: "compressed powder" cartridges. Video here discussing them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyoPmklwv-Q&ab_channel=ErasGoneHistoricalMolds

Last summer I started testing a new lube for over the ball, seemed to work OK in my 1860 but was pretty stiff at temps below about 90* Farenheit. Melt 4 parts by weight of beeswax in a double boiler. Add 3 parts by weight of olive oil; stir til thoroughly mixed and no lumps remain. Add 2 parts by weight of Murphy's oil soap; stir thoroughly (being careful of the reaction when the soap is added--it foams up) until no lumps remain. Pour it into a container and let it cool.

(.700 member)

12/11/24 08:13 AM

Re: Something new, Uberti Colt Army 1860 .44 BP

One of those little flexible steel round end fingernail files might be a good applicator for above the ball.

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