(.400 member)

23/01/10 06:14 AM

Early Rigby .500 BPE

Here is another one from my collection of bubbaed relics: An early Rigby Jones action hammer double in .500 3" BPE. It's got steel barrels, though the ribs are made from damascus. Rigby's once told me their first 500 with steel barrels was made just a couple of numbers earlier for no other than Sir Joseph Whitworth. The nonrebounding backlocks are marked inside by the famous lockmaker Stanton of Wolverhampton. The spurs of the high-rising hammers are very close together. Their half-cock position is, still pinfire style, very high, close to full-cock. This allows cocking both hammers by one motion. The top rib is engraved, faintly visible now, "John Rigby & Co., Dublin & London". The watertable and the barrel flats bear the Rigby trademark only, no proofmarks at all! IMHO it was made when the express cartridges were still experimental and they had not figured out how to proove such things which used charges exceeding the conventional proof charges. It is of very solid construction, weighing 9.4 pounds/4.28kg now. I am tempted sometimes to open up the forcing cones and have it proofed for the modern NE load some day, just to see what happens!
As far as I could put it's history together, it was sold at Rigby's London shop in 1870 to a Mr.Heath. Then it disappeared from sight. Apparently it spent some years in India, where it was used, misused, rusted, scrubbed, restocked, barrels cut to 25", crude makeshift sights installed and rusted again. At least, it surfaced again 1975 at the Bremen customs, where it slipped out of a carpet roll coming from India. The next owner gave it to a retired gunsmith, who disassembled it completely, made a new mainspring and hinge pin, chemically derusted everything and then deceased. My wife really doubted my IQ when I came home one evening in 1988 with several plastic bags full of mysterious parts and my pocket 2000.- Deutsche Mark lighter. As it turned out, the "parts kit" was almost complete, even some "spares" thrown in, just the buttplate missing. I reassembled everything, put on 3-leaf Express rear- and folding night- frontsights, reregulated the barrels and refinished the whole thing.
The guncase I bought some years later in an English country gunshop. I had asked for a simple canvas case, but the owner offered me the old, beat up oak-and-leather one instead. OK, it's a shotgun case, but the old rifle fits in quite nicely.

(.300 member)

23/01/10 06:48 AM

Re: Early Rigby .500 BPE

Wow!

Beautiful old gun

(.416 member)

23/01/10 08:56 AM

Re: Early Rigby .500 BPE

Heh!

What a cool old rifle.
Beat and wrinkled, but still in the fight!!

Cheers
Tinker

Administrator

(.450 member)

23/01/10 11:38 PM

Re: Early Rigby .500 BPE

That's a grand old rifle with such an interesting past. If only these antiques could talk!

The absence of proof marks is perplexing. Even a .500 muzzleloader would have been proofed. You should research this further if possible.

Have the ribs been blacked? I don't see the damascus pattern.

Have you taken game with it? There's a certain feeling of satisfaction in taking game with a rifle that first roamed the hunting woods so many years ago.

Thanks for sharing.

Curl

(.400 member)

24/01/10 07:30 AM

Re: Early Rigby .500 BPE

CptCurl:
Yes, I have taken several of our German game with it, boar, red deer and roe deer. Sorry, but no tigers or gaur seen at my place recently! The rifle is now regulated for my handload: Horneber .500 3" NE case, 75gr VV N140, foam filler, 445gr Paper patched lead bullet. Keeps them inside 3" at 70m.
Even Paul Roberts had no explanation for the lack of proofmarks, but he had seen other very early Rigby breechloading dr's without them too.So I have no clue yet.
As I told above, the "parts kit" came to me practically in the white, the file-cut top rib worn nearly smooth. As I expected damascus barrels and wanted to learn about the pattern, I first applied damascus browning solution. The barrels showed not a trace of any pattern, but the top and bottom ribs showed a distinct, but simple twist pattern. If you reread Greener or Boothroyd, you see ribmaking was a highly specialized, separate profession in the European guntrade. Apparently the barrelmaker who joined ribs and barrels on working the new-fangled Steel barrels did not bother to have ribs made of the same materiel, but simply used damascus rib blanks he had in stock. As damascus brown does look out of place on homogenous steel, I freshed out the file-cutting on the top rib and then slow rust blacked the thing. As I have done it on some cape-gun barrels for a friend, I can tell you it's a difficult job to first blacken the steel rifle barrel, then polish up and brown the damascus parts without damaging the black. As the pattern would have been nearly invisible on the file-cut top rib anyhow, I did not bother to do this for the narrow bottom rib. IMHO the rifle was finished like this originally.

Administrator

(.450 member)

24/01/10 07:39 AM

Re: Early Rigby .500 BPE

Interesting. Thanks for elaborating. It's a fine rifle for sure.

What velocity do you get out of your N-f-B load?

Curl

(.416 member)

24/01/10 08:21 AM

Re: Early Rigby .500 BPE

You've done a wonderfull job of bringing this 'bag of bones' back to life! Well Done!

(.400 member)

25/01/10 12:57 AM

Re: Early Rigby .500 BPE

Here are two more photos to better show the remaining engraving, an old repair to the right lockplate and the pitting.

As I had no chrono then, I never measured the velocity. Estimated about 1800fps, or, as Rolls-Royce put it when once asked for the HP of their SilverShadow: sufficient!

(.400 member)

02/05/19 01:04 PM

Re: Early Rigby .500 BPE

Interesting that I just ran across this 2010 post as I recently acquired an 1872 Rigby .450 Express that is almost a clone of the .500 that started the thread.
I have trouble making out the exact serial number on kuduae’s rifle (135??) but it looks like mine #13856 is about 300 or so numbers higher.

A very close match as to interior action bar details, action face, Jones underlever, fences and top tang....... hammer style is a bit different as they are the flat cut type, mine also has Stanton back action non-rebounding locks but of a “bar action” appearance with exterior action profile to match.
The barrel rib file cut is now mostly smooth, however the script John Rigby & Co. Dublin & London is very well preserved.

An interesting point is that my rifle also has no visible proof marks save for one faint stamping on the left barrel ahead of the flats that looks like a possible London Provisional mark.....that’s it, nothing more.
The watertable and barrel flats have perfectly defined Rigby trademark and serial number stampings.

The steel barrels with very good/excellent bores are Rigby’s style of 8 groove shallow Metford type rifling suited for paper patch bullets. Bore measures out to approximately .454”-.455”with no taper to the bore, and groove measures ~.465”.
Chambered for the .450 3-1/4” Express.

Rifle weighs 9lbs 3oz with 26” barrels and has an older very nicely done barrel reblack and stock refinish with the checkering having been refreshed. Both buttstock and forend are original to the rifle and serial numbered. The case colors may have been redone, but if so it was a long time ago and likely in England from the looks of them. The engraving remains as well defined and sharp as the day it was cut.

Rigby has the records for this one and I am awaiting the information. More photos at a later date.
- Mike

(.400 member)

03/05/19 01:24 AM

Re: Early Rigby .500 BPE

NIce Rigbys. Even though I can find a hammer doublerifle in my safe, I still love to look at others.

Hammer doublerifles in a BPE caliber with jones underlever...Whats not to like?.

(.333 member)

03/05/19 02:52 AM

Re: Early Rigby .500 BPE

What magnificent rifles!! Thanks for posting.....and keep em coming!!

(.700 member)

03/05/19 02:58 AM

Re: Early Rigby .500 BPE

I agree, degoins - makes me want to say - screw the investments, I'm going to buy one, just to hold and shoot.

(.416 member)

03/05/19 06:35 AM

Re: Early Rigby .500 BPE

Wonderful job there kuduae!
You're a true artisan matey, & getting it to regulate & take some game to boot - Loved the 'Rolls Royce' quote...priceless!
You certainly did some amazing work to get that old girl going again, I think many wouldn't have persisted & left it as a wall hanger.....but chance to own a Rigby for $2ooo - well worth the pain of the wife beating your ears for a month or so!
'Better to ask forgiveness than ask permission' - we're all cheering for you on this one champion!

(.400 member)

03/05/19 12:58 PM

Re: Early Rigby .500 BPE

3 more pictures of Rigby .450 Express #13856

(.400 member)

03/05/19 08:18 PM

Re: Early Rigby .500 BPE

Quote:

I have trouble making out the exact serial number on kuduae’s rifle (135??) but it looks like mine #13856 is about 300 or so numbers higher.

My 1870 dated .500 BPE Rigby dr is serial number 13580.

(.400 member)

04/05/19 12:22 AM

Re: Early Rigby .500 BPE

Considering that a D Mark was worth around 57 cents in 1988, the total cash outlay would have been around $1140. Corrected for inflation this would be around $2150 in today's dollars.

(.333 member)

04/05/19 03:02 AM

Re: Early Rigby .500 BPE

Hey Daryl, I did that very thing a few months ago on a Henry 450 bpe made 10/11/1894. I'll try take some good pics but I'll have to email them to someone to post for me. It is also a bar action like the O.P's Rigby. It also has an over the comb stock reinforcement which I've never seen on a Henry.

(.400 member)

04/05/19 04:30 AM

Re: Early Rigby .500 BPE

Quote:

Hey Daryl, I did that very thing a few months ago on a Henry 450 bpe made 10/11/1894. I'll try take some good pics but I'll have to email them to someone to post for me. It is also a bar action like the O.P's Rigby. It also has an over the comb stock reinforcement which I've never seen on a Henry.

Looking forward to pictures. Send 2 or 3 of them to me, I can post for you.
Maybe in the Alexander Henry thread instead?

Will PM my email address
- Mike

(.416 member)

04/05/19 07:52 AM

Re: Early Rigby .500 BPE

Quote:

Considering that a D Mark was worth around 57 cents in 1988, the total cash outlay would have been around $1140. Corrected for inflation this would be around $2150 in today's dollars.

And worth every penny for the blood sweat & tears that followed! I wouldn't even guess at a price of what a piece like that is worth now in a beautifully restored state - but it would be one hell of a lot more now!
A very shrewd investment Kuduae....haven't got any Scottish blood perchance?

(.333 member)

04/05/19 08:11 AM

Re: Early Rigby .500 BPE

3DogMike,,,You STOLE that Rigby!!!!!!!!!!!LOL,,,,

(.400 member)

04/05/19 11:58 AM

Re: Early Rigby .500 BPE

Quote:

3DogMike,,,You STOLE that Rigby!!!!!!!!!!!LOL,,,,

You were following the auction I guess

That seller has a spotty reputation but I decided to risk it. Turned out to be a very nice rifle, quite a good job done on restoring/refinishing the original stock and the metal was all in really good shape.
If the weather stays decent I will get to shoot it for groups this coming week.
- Mike

(.275 member)

05/05/19 04:12 AM

Re: Early Rigby .500 BPE

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=284608&an=0&page=1#Post284608
Made in 1869 serial 13,310.

(.400 member)

05/05/19 11:44 AM

Re: Early Rigby .500 BPE

Quote:

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=284608&an=0&page=1#Post284608
Made in 1869 serial 13,310.

Since your original post I have often gone back to your thread to look at that lovely Rigby!
- Mike

(.333 member)

07/05/19 08:56 PM

Re: Early Rigby .500 BPE

Quote:

Quote:

Hey Daryl, I did that very thing a few months ago on a Henry 450 bpe made 10/11/1894. I'll try take some good pics but I'll have to email them to someone to post for me. It is also a bar action like the O.P's Rigby. It also has an over the comb stock reinforcement which I've never seen on a Henry.

Looking forward to pictures. Send 2 or 3 of them to me, I can post for you.
Maybe in the Alexander Henry thread instead?

Will PM my email address
- Mike

Thanks Mike. Sent you a pm.

(.400 member)

08/05/19 12:08 AM

Re: Early Rigby .500 BPE

I have received the certificate from Rigby, interesting info on this nice old rifle.

(.333 member)

08/05/19 02:36 AM

Re: Early Rigby .500 BPE

Now to find out about Capt. Goff.....and of course the adventures of his/your gorgeous rifle.

(.416 member)

08/05/19 06:16 AM

Re: Early Rigby .500 BPE

Marvellous piece of history there 3DM........& bloody good looking too!

Administrator

(.700 member)

08/05/19 02:01 PM

Re: Early Rigby .500 BPE

Excellent stuff Gentlemen!

Good on Rigby providing certificates like that now as well.

***

Gentlemen,

A question regarding your rifles.

I have a Cogswell & Harrison of similar desciption, I believe in .500 BPE as well.

Are your rifles a little muzzle heavy?

I will have to measure the barrel length and see the length. And also weigh the rifle.

(.400 member)

09/05/19 05:45 AM

Re: Early Rigby .500 BPE

Quote:

Good on Rigby providing certificates like that now as well.

Yep, I know first hand that Rigby and Cogswell & Harrison are very historically minded and eager to assist in getting into their existing records.
Jeffery daybooks do exist, but are privately held and it is very difficult to obtain information.
Cannot speak as to any of the other houses.

Quote:

Gentlemen,

A question regarding your rifles.

I have a Cogswell & Harrison of similar desciption, I believe in .500 BPE as well.

Are your rifles a little muzzle heavy?

I will have to measure the barrel length and see the length. And also weigh the rifle.

Nitro John,
My 26” barrel Rigby above balances 1 1/4” ahead of the hinge pin, my 28” barrel Alexander Henry .450 also ~1 1/4” ahead of the hinge pin. Both feel very much “weight between the hands”.
- Mike

(.400 member)

18/06/19 10:27 AM

Re: Early Rigby .500 BPE

What better to keep with ones Rigby rifles!
Rigby can’t ship to the ‘States.......so I had a visiting mate bring it in for me.
My son has obtained a bottle of “normally labeled” 12 year Blair Athol so that I can have a proper wee dram without opening this special bottle.

(.275 member)

18/11/19 01:44 PM

Re: Early Rigby .500 BPE

I hope that this is not hijacking the thread. My aim is just to add to it...

This Rigby I picked up a little earlier this year. It is not quite as early (1889) but still a relatively early and a nice example of a .500 BPE Rigby and a Rising Bite to boot!

Administrator

(.450 member)

18/11/19 04:06 PM

Re: Early Rigby .500 BPE

Nice!

Curl

(.400 member)

18/11/19 04:51 PM

Re: Early Rigby .500 BPE

Oh my gosh.....that one is a beauty. Underlever rising bite, engraving has NOT been attacked by a buffing wheel!
So nice, thanks for posting.
- Mike

(.400 member)

18/11/19 08:44 PM

Re: Early Rigby .500 BPE

Beautiful Rifle Vette447, really Beautiful, nice to see & yes Thank you for posting !

(.416 member)

19/11/19 07:29 AM

Re: Early Rigby .500 BPE

Quote:

Beautiful Rifle Vette447, really Beautiful, nice to see & yes Thank you for posting !

Couldn't be any better put!
WOW!

(.416 member)

19/11/19 12:43 PM

Re: Early Rigby .500 BPE

WOW!
Now THAT is my kind of double rifle!
I do think I could arrange a trip down to Oklahoma to help you exercise your Rigbys.

(.416 member)

19/11/19 01:10 PM

Re: Early Rigby .500 BPE

Can we see the front sight and muzzles please?

(.275 member)

19/11/19 01:45 PM

Re: Early Rigby .500 BPE

Thanks for all of the positive comments guys. I was pretty excited to find it last summer.

As requested, here are pics of the front sight and muzzles.

(.700 member)

20/11/19 05:41 AM

Re: Early Rigby .500 BPE

Very nice indeed.

(.416 member)

20/11/19 06:21 AM

Re: Early Rigby .500 BPE

Thanks for the photos!

(.400 member)

20/11/19 06:27 AM

Re: Early Rigby .500 BPE

Very very nice rifle. My compliments for the fine pick-up.

Not only in a rare configuration from a known gunmaker....but in a usefull caliber that will still bring down 99,99% of all game on earth.

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