Watson577
(.300 member)
04/04/09 09:05 AM
Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

I just acquired this rifle and I thought that I should upload some pictures of it.















dons
(.333 member)
04/04/09 09:59 AM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Simply stunning eye candy. Thanks for the photos.

Huvius
(.416 member)
04/04/09 10:10 AM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Beautiful rifle!
Congratulations on your acquisition.
Welcome to N.E. as well!


mehulkamdar
(.416 member)
04/04/09 10:25 AM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Fantastic double rifle and a superb first post!

Do post often here and good hunting!


Sarg
(.400 member)
04/04/09 11:21 AM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Magnificent ! makes my T Bland 577BPE look , well bland ! !

Great photo taking too !

Welcome & thank you for posting !


500grains
(.416 member)
04/04/09 11:40 AM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Whoa, it looks new!!!

Huvius
(.416 member)
04/04/09 11:51 AM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Quote:

Whoa, it looks new!!!




My thoughts exactly!
You would be hard-pressed to find one better.
The more I look, the more I dig it!
What other treasures are lurking in your gun cabinet?


Buchsemann
(.333 member)
04/04/09 12:33 PM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

A very nice purchase indeed!

The pictures are great. Closing with the shot through the breech was a nice touch.


Raff
(.300 member)
04/04/09 01:46 PM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

That is about the nicest BP double I have seen in years.
In the best caliber, too!
Congratulations!
Thanks for the photos.
Raff


alexbeer
(.333 member)
04/04/09 03:35 PM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Watson577 - Welcome.

That is simply a superb rifle. Stunning.

Does anyone else have trouble posting replies to a post like this when they are drooling??

I think this rifle will give you many hours of great enjoyment.

Once again, welcome

Regards

Alex

alexbeer.com


rigbymauser
(.400 member)
04/04/09 06:52 PM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Stunning!!!!.

Thats the kind of quality , one have to really search for...for a long time, but in the end, it gives you 10fold of joy and over the years, the investment 10fold back...if one cares to sell it.

My heart is bleeding now for a Best .577BPE 3" Jones Underlever, backaction Hammer doublerifle

Oh...I truly forgot. Welcome onboard here...You have made a Grandstand.

sincerely j.


Watson577
(.300 member)
04/04/09 10:25 PM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Guys,

Thank you for the kind welcome! This is my first double rifle and I ended up having to "reach" quite a bit farther for it than I had originally intended. I certainly don't regret the purchase though because I bought it for what I consider to be a fair price--a dealer, no doubt, would have wanted more. I have a few other British 12 bore hammer guns but nothing that even comes close to the condition of this gun. Do any of you have an idea of who would have made this rifle for Watson Brothers? It was very likely bought in the white from a Birmingham gunmaker and then stocked and finished by Watson. The only marks other than proof marks that I can find are the following: a very small stamp under the left barrel that likely is "A&T", an almost microscopic mark on the bottom rib that looks like it might be "R.L.", and the number 742 that is stamped on the bottom rib. I am heading off to a cousin's wedding right now but I will upload pictures of these marks when I get back if that helps. Thank you all very much! Now to finish gathering loading equipment and supplies...

Best regards,

Jim


peter
(removed)
05/04/09 04:11 AM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

wow

that is as nice as they come, congratulations on a great buy and welcome to nitroexpress and the 577 NfB club

best regards

peter


Anonymous
(Unregistered)
05/04/09 03:43 PM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Whao! That is soooo clean and original, holy ^#&^%#!

Congrats and welcome aboard.


CptCurlAdministrator
(.450 member)
05/04/09 09:41 PM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Jim,

That is a fantastic rifle. You will really love owning it and shooting it.

We will have to get together for a .577 shoot soon.

Best,
Curl


Paul
(.400 member)
06/04/09 08:24 PM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

A beautiful rifle, beautifully photographed. My father-in-law had a Watson Bros shotgun before I knew him but he sold it because his doctor said it was making him deaf. Dang!

dearmer
(.275 member)
11/04/09 08:40 PM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

The A&T is Adams and Tate. They made the barrels.

Watson577
(.300 member)
12/04/09 04:07 AM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

dearmer,

Thank you for the note about the A&T marking!

- Jim


Story
(.333 member)
14/04/09 09:25 AM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Watson,
Very nice - may I ask, how long are the barrels?


Watson577
(.300 member)
14/04/09 10:17 AM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Story,

The barrels are 26" long.


Story
(.333 member)
15/04/09 09:57 AM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Thanks Watson - for some reason, they looked shorter to me.

Anonymous
(Unregistered)
14/10/09 08:04 AM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Style and grace!

tophet1
(.400 member)
14/10/09 11:10 AM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Do you have any history of the rifle ?

Ripp
(.577 member)
15/10/09 04:06 AM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Great looking rifle..
Congrats

Ripp


okguy
(.275 member)
19/11/09 02:12 PM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

I think the term, "Drop Dead Gorgeous" applies to this rifle.

I hope you have many years of enjoyment with it.


VonGruff
(.400 member)
20/11/09 05:21 AM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

The whole range of superlatives are barely adequate for this one.
What a way to introduce yourself Jim. Giday, and thanks for the great photo's.


Von Gruff.


Watson577
(.300 member)
20/11/09 11:38 AM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Von Gruff,

Thank you for your complements. I consider myself very lucky to have found this rifle and I take very good care of it. If I can ever manage to find a suitable oak and leather case that I won’t feel bad about refitting, it will finally reside in a proper case. These double rifles are a terrible disease though! It’s so easy to become obsessed with them!

Best regards,

Jim


Watson577
(.300 member)
16/07/10 09:19 AM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

I have been honing my photography skills and here are a few more photographs of this rifle for the archive.







Cheers,

Jim


CptCurlAdministrator
(.450 member)
16/07/10 11:10 AM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Jim, that is just marvelous. You are really fortunate.

Curl


Anonymous
(Unregistered)
16/07/10 11:55 AM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Really really nice thanks for posting.

Buchsemann
(.333 member)
16/07/10 12:11 PM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Jim,

Thank you for posting the additional pictures, nicely done.

Regards,

Buchseman


rigbymauser
(.400 member)
16/07/10 02:19 PM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Five stars for that gun

Paul
(.400 member)
16/07/10 07:34 PM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

That is a nicely kept rifle of definite distinction, to my mind at least.

eagle27
(.400 member)
17/07/10 04:24 PM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Jim

Always saddens me when I see such a beautiful old world double incomplete. It just begs to have a big old man-eater tiger perched on the front bead at 10 yards all teeth, claws and fury only a tiger can show.

But hey lets get out of the doldrums and enjoy it for what it is. An absolute stunner showing superb craftsmanship and years of care and attention by past owner/s. Jim I do hope you can pull down on some big dangerous brute with it and dream the dream.


Watson577
(.300 member)
18/07/10 12:38 AM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Eagle27,

I'm much more likely to take the Stephen Grant 577/500 3-1/8” over this one since it has seen a lot of field use (the original owner, Maharana Fateh Singh, killed over 1,000 tigers in his lifetime and likely quite a few with that rifle). I just shoot the Watson Brothers rifle a bit and try to preserve it the way that it is for future generations to enjoy. I have always wondered if this rifle was ever even used on a hunt in India. Since the current owner of Watson Brothers tells me that he has the original ledger entry but no name it will be impossible to do any meaningful research. I frequently wonder if he does have the original owners' name but just doesn't want to release it. I know that John Dickson & Son will tell you everything that they have for an Alexander Henry gun less the original owners’ name. It’s a real shame because so much history is potentially lost. All it takes is a fire and it’s gone forever…

Jim


DarylS
(.700 member)
18/07/10 01:35 AM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Can a rifle just about make you cream your jeans? That one did. What a beautiful rifle! The overall condition and those tubes - glorious!

TH44
(.375 member)
18/07/10 08:25 AM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896


Just goes to show you do not need a "top name" to have the best in the field of gun (rifle) making

- truly excellent -

One very good thing is that there are people around who appreciate such quality (Us??? amongst the herd who would have them destroyed)

TH


CptCurlAdministrator
(.450 member)
25/02/18 12:03 AM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

I thought I would bring up this old thread to announce that this past Sunday I became the new adoptive parent of this wonderful .577 BPE.

I had asked Jim, should he ever decide to sell it, to please give me a run at it. He honored that request, and I ponied up.

The last thing I "need" is another double rifle, but an opportunity to own one as magnificent as this is not to be shunned. And after all, what does "need" have to do with it anyway?

So this fine rifle is in its new adoptive home with visiting privileges still extended to Jim. Thanks!

Curl


MikeRowe
(.333 member)
25/02/18 12:32 AM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Congratulations Roscoe - the Watson is a beautiful rifle.

NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
25/02/18 02:48 AM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Too nice Curl. Congratulations.

3DogMike
(.400 member)
25/02/18 05:44 AM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Very very nice and I wish I had the photography skills.......

My Jeffery .577 3 1/4 BPE was also dated 1896 & I was fortunate enough to get a copy of the page from Jeffery’s day book. Except for maker, my Jeffery is almost a twin, made for Jeffery by Ellis.
- Mike


DarylS
(.700 member)
25/02/18 05:44 AM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Curly - I could care for her, for you, if you lack the room?
What a treasure!


tinker
(.416 member)
25/02/18 05:56 AM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Dang.

Six dram rifle for full patch 610gr bullet?
Whoo-whee!

Looks super nice too.
:-)


Cheers
Tinker


Huvius
(.416 member)
25/02/18 05:59 AM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

The real question now is...
Will Jim have to change his forum name?!?


NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
25/02/18 06:19 AM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Quote:

The real question now is...
Will Jim have to change his forum name?!?




ex-Watson577 ?


DarylS
(.700 member)
25/02/18 06:43 AM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

One more gun to shoot, when I visit.

Wayne59
(.400 member)
25/02/18 04:26 PM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

How come we don't have an east coast big bore shoot. There are plenty of us out here.

500Boswell
(.400 member)
25/02/18 09:37 PM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Would loves a Jones underlever 577 nitro express [not the BP ] if you could get someone to make it ! Jones under lever, really being the most Classic Double rifle ever [IMO]

CptCurlAdministrator
(.450 member)
26/02/18 12:42 AM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Quote:

How come we don't have an east coast big bore shoot. There are plenty of us out here.




I think that's a grand idea. Somebody just needs to organize it.

Curl


DarylS
(.700 member)
26/02/18 05:10 AM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

You mean like someone retired? hint, hint.

CptCurlAdministrator
(.450 member)
26/02/18 07:21 AM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Well I guess I'm a sick puppy. I'm sitting here on a gloomy Sunday afternoon playing with two .577 BPE rifles. My Henry above, and my Watson below.





I can't for the life of me imagine why a man would need more than one.

For those who might be interested, my Henry is displayed at this link: Alexander Henry .577 Double Rifle

Curl


Wayne59
(.400 member)
26/02/18 11:27 AM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

You never know when a hole pride (or what ever they call them) of tigers might escape from the zoo.

DarylS
(.700 member)
26/02/18 01:49 PM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

I think I might get to shoot one of those (& others) soon?????

DarylS
(.700 member)
26/02/18 02:43 PM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Curly - I'll bring a bottle of 15 year old Gibson's (if I can) and we'll discuss this abhorrent drive you have to own two .577 BPE's!
Do they sell 20 year old Gibson's?
How about a nice single malt Scotch?


DarylS
(.700 member)
26/02/18 02:54 PM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

LOL - just had a wild thought - what would it be like to hunt with a guy that had that pair of rifles, one each? Grizzlies, Browns, Water Buffalo - oh my!
edited - I mean one rifle each - LOL


tinker
(.416 member)
26/02/18 04:04 PM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

No reason needed.

Nice rifles!


NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
26/02/18 05:32 PM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Quote:

Well I guess I'm a sick puppy. I'm sitting here on a gloomy Sunday afternoon playing with two .577 BPE rifles. My Henry above, and my Watson below.





I can't for the life of me imagine why a man would need more than one.

For those who might be interested, my Henry is displayed at this link: Alexander Henry .577 Double Rifle

Curl




Now you need a good well trained gun loader, a la a driven grouse shoot, but expert reloading and cocking the .577, for those mass driven elephant shoots.


NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
26/02/18 05:32 PM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

BTW even different makers, at least different "named" makers, are there any real differences between the two?

CptCurlAdministrator
(.450 member)
26/02/18 11:27 PM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Quote:

BTW even different makers, at least different "named" makers, are there any real differences between the two?




John,

The rifles are quite similar, but there are subtle differences. Both are back action, hammer, Jones UL double rifles, the climax design of the black powder double rifles. So in that sense they are much the same.

Let me catalog some differences.

Chamber:
Watson .577 3" BPE
Henry .577 2-3/4" BPE

This gives the Watson a slight edge on ballistics. Standard ballistics of the day, comparing solid bullets, provided for the 3" round to fire a 610 grain bullet at 1650 fps. The 2-3/4" round fired a 560 grain bullet at 1650 fps. So there is a bit more payload with the longer round.

Weight:
Watson 12 lbs. 3 oz.
Henry 10 lbs. 2 oz.

The Henry is quite noticeably lighter and handier. The Watson is wider across the breech and more massive. For carrying all day, choose the Henry. To soak up recoil, choose the Watson.

Barrels:
Watson 26" fluid steel, Enfield rifled
Henry 28" fine Damascus, Henry rifled

Other dimensions and attributes:
The Henry has a length of pull 14-1/4"; The Watson 14-1/2". I'm tall with long arms, so the longer rifle fits me a little better.

The Henry's butt is checkered and fit with steel heel and toe plates. The Watson has a horn buttplate.

As for styling, the Henry is distinctly a Henry rifle. It has the exaggerated pistol grip so typical of Henry, and it also has steel heel and toe plates of a classic Henry double. The Watson is styled like a London gun. If it had flat sided hammers it would be indistinguishable from a Holland & Holland of the same period. Other London makers used round sided hammers and made essentially the same gun. Earlier H&H rifles are found with round sided hammers. The Henry is a best quality build for a maharajah. The Watson has somewhat less embellishment.

The Henry was completed October 11, 1890. The Watson was completed in 1896.

Both rifles have London BP proofs. The Henry was made in Edinburgh. The Watson was likely made in Birmingham, but it's impossible to know. Watson may have had made it themselves in London.

The Henry is housed in its original case with a full compliment of loading tools. The Watson is without a case.

So you see, they are much the same, with noted differences.

Curl


DarylS
(.700 member)
27/02/18 05:43 AM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Cool! The differences, are very subtle, looking at them from the angles of the twin picture.
Now, the Henry Wrist shape stands out proudly, compared to the Watson.
tks for the description.


Huvius
(.416 member)
27/02/18 12:09 PM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

The Henry rifles have a very distinct shape and position to the cheekpiece too.
Thinner and higher up on the stock than the typical H&H style (or the Watson in this case).

Wonderful rifles there Curl!


4seventy
(Sponsor)
27/02/18 02:50 PM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Quote:

Well I guess I'm a sick puppy.




Yeah Rosco you are indeed a sick puppy.
You have the Double Rifle Addiction Virus and there's no certain cure!
You've had it for a long time now and it has a strong hold on you.
But then who'd want a cure anyway!

I am also a sick puppy and have suffered the same disease for a long time too.
Best illness I've ever had!

Jokes aside, man you have some beautiful rifles.
The Watson and the Henry, WOW, condition condition condition!
Stunning rifles both.


3DogMike
(.400 member)
27/02/18 03:32 PM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Have sent Curl a couple of pictures of my W. J. Jeffery .577 3-1/4 BPE that is almost a dead ringer for a twin of his Watson. My Jeffery was made for Jeffery by R. Ellis (Adams & Tate barrels) and entered into the Jeffery daybooks in 1896 same year as Curl’s Watson. I do wonder if Watson sourced this rifle from Ellis as well? Do Watson records still exist?
Too bad I’m 1/2 a continent away, would be fun to get the two rifles together for a shoot.
- Mike


NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
27/02/18 04:02 PM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Thanks a lot of not subtle differences there. I didn't compare any detailed photos, just looked at your settee photo where they look very much alike.

93x64mm
(.416 member)
28/02/18 07:28 AM
Re: Watson Bros. 577 3" Double Rifle Made in 1896

Quote:

Well I guess I'm a sick puppy. I'm sitting here on a gloomy Sunday afternoon playing with two .577 BPE rifles. My Henry above, and my Watson below.
Curl



No good sitting in the dark you'll go blind playing with things!
Well done CC, brilliant pieces of kit, to have one is fantastic....but two!
Awesome!



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