| k80 |
| (.333 member) |
| 19/12/07 11:56 AM |
cost of 470
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Why has the cost of 470 ammunition
gone up so much. It was about $10 US
a round. Now it is about $15 US.
| 500Nitro |
| (.450 member) |
| 19/12/07 12:16 PM |
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Re: cost of 470
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Lead, Brass, Copper have all gone up by substantially.
Just look at the metal price charts.
Ammo will go up even more soon across the board.
| NE450No2 |
| (.375 member) |
| 19/12/07 12:19 PM |
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Re: cost of 470
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All ammo prices are up.
I am told it is because the Chinease are buying up a lot of scrap metal.
| 9.3x57 |
| (.450 member) |
| 19/12/07 12:24 PM |
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Re: cost of 470
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Yup.
All of those metals are up. I just bought some brass buckles for my leatherworking and the prices of that stuff has jumped also.
Maybe you shooters of the Big'uns should gang up and beg Wolf to spin some out in throwaway Berdan-primed steel cases.
Just bust open the gun and let'em zing away into the high weeds!!
| k80 |
| (.333 member) |
| 19/12/07 12:34 PM |
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Re: cost of 470
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I understand ; but it seemed
percentage wise too big of a
jump.
| 9.3x57 |
| (.450 member) |
| 19/12/07 12:40 PM |
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Re: cost of 470
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Quote:
I understand ; but it seemed
percentage wise too big of a
jump.
I'm not real overjoyed by the increases either and I'm told 2008 is going to be a rough year for ammo prices all the way around...
| 500Nitro |
| (.450 member) |
| 19/12/07 12:51 PM |
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Re: cost of 470
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Quote:
I understand ; but it seemed
percentage wise too big of a
jump.
Ammo prices were held down for quite a few years
so it is not only the metal prices that have gone
up but also a general increase as well.
| smicha6551 |
| (.275 member) |
| 19/12/07 04:50 PM |
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Re: cost of 470
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The price of metals have gone up, but realistically, is there $5 extra in metal in ONE .470 Nitro cartridge? They aren't that heavy. I'm hoping Hornady keeps coming out with the large bore rounds, and keeps the price pressure up. Compare what they charge for a box of .416 Rigby to Federal - they all pay the same price for metal so either Federal is putting a TON more work into their ammunition (possible) or Federal is making one hell of a profit.
| 475Guy |
| (.400 member) |
| 19/12/07 05:51 PM |
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Re: cost of 470
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As far as price goes, Federal will always be the most expensive US manufactured ammo. Next would be Norma which I believe is imported unless they've snuck in a plant in the south somewheres. Of course, Hornady is going to be least expensive of them all. If they finally get their heads out of their collective asses and use good bullets instead of using Hornady re-invented bullets in the ammo, they'll sell several tons of it.
| k80 |
| (.333 member) |
| 20/12/07 03:29 AM |
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Re: cost of 470
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Does Hornady produce 470s at
this time?
I like their 458WM it is accurate,
and a bit softer shooting than
the Federal.
| 475Guy |
| (.400 member) |
| 20/12/07 03:53 AM |
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Re: cost of 470
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No they don't. It's in the works as soon as they get up all their own proprietary cartridges up and going.
| 400NitroExpress |
| (.400 member) |
| 20/12/07 04:46 AM |
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Re: cost of 470
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Quote:
Of course, Hornady is going to be least expensive of them all.
True. Compare Hornady .450/.400 at $70/box to Federal .470 at $290/box. From what I've seen, Norma is even more expensive.
Quote:
If they finally get their heads out of their collective asses and use good bullets instead of using Hornady re-invented bullets in the ammo, they'll sell several tons of it.
Perhaps true with respect to the soft nose. For the nitro expresses, Hornady's challenge is to come up with a bonded core soft ala Woodleigh. With respect to solids, nothing could be further from the truth. Their steel jacketed solid is superb and remains one of the best there is.
| 9.3x57 |
| (.450 member) |
| 20/12/07 05:11 AM |
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Re: cost of 470
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I wonder how many rounds of .470 Federal has made...
| 500Nitro |
| (.450 member) |
| 20/12/07 05:22 AM |
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Re: cost of 470
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Quote:
The price of metals have gone up, but realistically, is there $5 extra in metal in ONE .470 Nitro cartridge? They aren't that heavy.
As said before, not all the price rise is metal related.
From my post above yours.
"Ammo prices were held down for quite a few years
so it is not only the metal prices that have gone
up but also a general increase as well"
| Ripp |
| (.577 member) |
| 20/12/07 02:31 PM |
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Re: cost of 470
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Agree metal prices are up--but come on--Federal .470's could be had for about 205 to 215 and in one year they went to 295---40% INCREASE---think I smell a little more than metal prices in this one..
Ripp
| paradox_ |
| (.375 member) |
| 20/12/07 07:42 PM |
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Re: cost of 470
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Really easy to solve this problem....load your own...and whats more its good fun!!!!!
| DUGABOY1 |
| (.400 member) |
| 23/12/07 04:57 AM |
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Re: cost of 470
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Quote:
Really easy to solve this problem....load your own...and whats more its good fun!!!!!
Agreed, and IMO, the Federal ammo was price gouging even when $10US per shot, and is now $17 US per shot! The price of brass, copper, and steel had gone through the roof since the Afghan and Iraq wars, but that doesn't justify the price they are asking for Federal 470NE ammo. $340 per 20 rounds, X 5=$1700 per 100 rounds! That is outrageous as far as I'm concerned, especially when you can load it for under $5 per round, even with bullets equal to any ammo made by Federal!
There is no question NE ammo is expensive, and always has been, but $17US per round is ridiculous
| Geronimo |
| (.275 member) |
| 23/12/07 10:05 AM |
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Re: cost of 470
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I agee also, and add that my RL 15 loads are a bit more accurate with foam fillers than the factory loads and their vaunted 216 primers. Anyone who owns a large bore double now has every reason in the world to reload.
Geronimo
| 9.3x57 |
| (.450 member) |
| 23/12/07 10:45 AM |
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Re: cost of 470
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My question above is related to supply and demand. Is .470 ammo even being currently produced? Ammo for all calibers is not continuously made. A run might be made of say, .470 at some targeted quantity based on predictions of the demand for it, thus in essence leaving a limited amount in circulation. I suppose if Federal CAN charge "X" amount, they will. As long as people buy it.
I am really curious about the actual numbers of NE rounds manufactured by both Hornady and Federal compared to the more popular rounds like .308, .30-06, .270, .243, etc., {or even the .458 which I would think must outnumber the NE cartridges substantially}.
And this all begs the question: How much more .470 {or other somewhat similarly exotic NE cartridges} will Federal produce? With the fired cases that exist today "in play" with handloaders, will the need for loaded ammo increase, level off or decrease, or decrease at some point and grow again? Or, is the market for the big'uns merely a short term phenomenon, with opportunities for need of such rounds predicted to decrease say in the next 10 years?
Since the ACTUAL cost of the components is certainly small as some have already noted, it appears to me Federal is hedging their bets. Charge what you can now since the future demand is unknown.
It is all relative also. A poor mealie farmer in southern Katanga Province might find the cost of a single 12 ga shotgun shell barely affordable though he needs it badly to drive off potentially devastating crop raiders, while the cost of a round of .470 might be a mere annoyance to a New York investment banker who really doesn't "need" the cartridge at all.
Federal will charge whatever the market will bear.
| 500Nitro |
| (.450 member) |
| 23/12/07 11:07 AM |
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Re: cost of 470
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A few Manufacurers produce 470 ammo
and Hornady is also making 450/400
and soon 450 NE.
| poprivit |
| (.333 member) |
| 27/12/07 10:35 AM |
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Re: cost of 470
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FWIW: I've an unopened box of Federal Cape Shok 470 Nitro Express with 500-gr. Woodleigh Weldcore SP bullets that I cannot use (rifle broke in half!) I paid $290 at Cabela's; will sell for $210 plus shipping. I've also got some cases and bullets. Let me know if any of you are interested and I'll put together a complete list of what I have.
Tom Murphy
1453 Mary Jo Drive
Gardnerville, NV
89460
| k80 |
| (.333 member) |
| 27/12/07 11:28 AM |
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Re: cost of 470
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poprivit: I must ask how does a rifle
break in half?
CptCurl
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| (.450 member) |
| 27/12/07 01:26 PM |
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Re: cost of 470
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k80,
You push the lever to the right, and the barrels tilt down as the rifle breaks in the middle.
Curl
| k80 |
| (.333 member) |
| 28/12/07 12:36 AM |
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Re: cost of 470
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Breaking in the "normal manor" usually
does not cause the ammunition ,brass ,
and bullets to be for sale.
| poprivit |
| (.333 member) |
| 28/12/07 07:29 AM |
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Re: cost of 470
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Naw, breaking in half means exactly that. The buttstock broke in half right at the wrist. This was as I was regulating the barrels because they were cross-eyed by 4.5 inches at 50 yards. Also, the forearm wood had broken, and the right barrel was cut too shallow to let the federal rounds seat deep enough to close the action. k80 is correct. What finally broke was my trust in the rifle. My PERSONAL opinion is that Blaser USA needs to get their act together; talk about rude, useless people. Their barrels are regulated by a laser, never on the action. When I got my 470, the barrels had never been fired, nor had they ever been on any action. It took $400 to just get the gun to work - 'course, then the stock broke.
Would you take this rifle to Botswana in April to hunt Cape Buffalo???
Thought not. My Ruger Magnum in 458 Lott is going. at least I trust it.
| zimhunter |
| (.333 member) |
| 28/12/07 08:26 AM |
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Re: cost of 470
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For fun I shoot an FAL and 308 surplus ammo has not been available for a long time. I live in and worked in the Copper mining industry and live next (and I mean within 2 miles) to several large producing copper mines. Copper is the highest it's been in years and they are at FULL employment. Had to buy a car battery last month and it was aspecial one that fits under the rear seat and has vent tubes and was only available from Buick. The Parts man informed me ALL auto batteries had 25% price increases as of the first of November. Because of the lead content I assume. No reason NOT to think ammo costs weren't going up by a significent amount. When I bought my Merkel 470 several years ago the price was $6000, I think they have gone up since then also.
| 400NitroExpress |
| (.400 member) |
| 28/12/07 07:15 PM |
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Re: cost of 470
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Quote:
Naw, breaking in half means exactly that. The buttstock broke in half right at the wrist. This was as I was regulating the barrels because they were cross-eyed by 4.5 inches at 50 yards. Also, the forearm wood had broken, and the right barrel was cut too shallow to let the federal rounds seat deep enough to close the action. k80 is correct. What finally broke was my trust in the rifle. My PERSONAL opinion is that Blaser USA needs to get their act together; talk about rude, useless people. Their barrels are regulated by a laser, never on the action. When I got my 470, the barrels had never been fired, nor had they ever been on any action. It took $400 to just get the gun to work - 'course, then the stock broke.
Would you take this rifle to Botswana in April to hunt Cape Buffalo???
Thought not. My Ruger Magnum in 458 Lott is going. at least I trust it.
My, that's a ringing endorsement. Not the first time I've heard similar.
I think I probably know the dealer you got it from. Same guy posted on another board that he thought the quality of the S2 was at least equal to that of a Holland & Holland.
I gather that he's a helluva salesman, but he sure ain't no gunsmith.Last I heard, Federal was still not making their own .470 brass. If they're still buying it in from Europe, the slide of the dollar will have increased the cost of it considerably. Hornady makes their own brass. They have 9.3X74R and .450/.400 3" on the market now, and it's probably the best flanged nitro brass I've ever used. They've announced the .450 3 1/4". I hope they stay on course, and bring out .470 as well. If they do, I'll bet their price cuts Federal's in half.
| smicha6551 |
| (.275 member) |
| 28/12/07 08:04 PM |
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Re: cost of 470
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Blaser customer service basically stinks - I'm hoping the new CEO gets their act together. I like most Blaser guns, but I wouldn't waste my money on the S2; when I went to the NRA convention even the Blaser rep didn't seem to think much of it.