| AzGuy |
| (.333 member) |
| 19/05/07 05:16 AM |
DR doubling ---- Intentionally
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Has anyone here been in a situation (field or range)where they intended and actually pulled both triggers on a DR at the same time? I don't imagine that many would practice such a thing, but would be nice to know what would happen if the right(or wrong) situation occurred. How much of a safety issue would it be?
| xausa |
| (.400 member) |
| 19/05/07 05:31 AM |
Re: DR doubling ---- Intentionally
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Safety issue to the rifle or to the shooter?
My Krieghoff .458 once doubled unintentionally with no damage whatsoever to the rifle and only slight embarrassment to the shooter.
As I mentioned in a previous thread, the recoil of a doubling rifle is not twice that of a single shot, but four times, since the velocity of the bullets remains the same and the weight of the bullets combined is double that of a single bullet.
This means that since the weight of the rifle remains the same, the recoil velocity doubles, and the recoil energy varies with the square of the recoil velocity, hence instead of twice the recoil energy, it was two squared (or four) times as much, and instead of 60 ft/lbs of recoil energy, I absorbed 240 ft/lbs, but with no broken collarbone, sore shoulder or other complications, other than wounded pride at landing on my stern.
The bullets hit the target about 1" apart.
If I had been aiming at an elephant, I suspect his headache would have required four Tylenol instead of two to abate.
| 500Nitro |
| (.450 member) |
| 19/05/07 05:41 AM |
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Re: DR doubling ---- Intentionally
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I have a double that when I first got it a mate doubled it
and then I did when hunting with it the first time.
Wondered what was wrong with it - then realised the rear trigger shape was such that we both touched it occasionally.
Well, recoil wasn't too bad, the first bullet always hit where aimed and the small delay in the other barrel going off meant the bullet went over the animal.
It was hard on the shoulder but nothing that couldn't be handled.
I would never intentionally double fire a double rifle
as it can take it off the face.
| hoppdoc |
| (.400 member) |
| 19/05/07 08:02 AM |
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Re: DR doubling ---- Intentionally
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Xausa--
Pardon me but I feel that Doubling doesn't have to give 4x the recoil as your calculations imply--
IMHO Your calculations would be absolutely correct if both barrels fired simultaneously, but if they fired sequentially the recoil should be less than 4x normal.How much less? Depends where and in what portion of the recoil curve of the first shot when the second barrel was shot.
NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 19/05/07 01:12 PM |
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Re: DR doubling ---- Intentionally
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As I have reported I have doubled my .450 in hunting circumstances.
The difference is noticeable but nothing to worry about ie the recoil, not the fact you now have an empty DR.
edited: note I refer to the recoil is not to worry about in hunting circumstances. At targets recoil always seem worse.
| Rich |
| (.224 member) |
| 20/05/07 10:34 AM |
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Re: DR doubling ---- Intentionally
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I was building a double rifled 12 bore,( single trigger ) that had a problem. It doubled on me 5 times with Brenneke Black Magic 3 in slugs (600 grs. each ) at 1500 fps. It will get your attn. in a 7 3/4 pound gun. I found that the bolt that runs from bottom tang to the top tang, when loosened would cause it to double. It happened twice while sitting at the bench and 3 times standing. Recoil was stout but manageable. Don't try it on purpose, if you have two fingers in the trigger guard you can break them both. Once when i was a kid i fired both bbls on a sawed off shotgun from the hip on a dare. It was 1962, didn't get out of the hospital till 11:30 that night, broke first and second finger, second finger had the bone pushed through when the gun flew out of my hand. Rich
| Showbart |
| (.224 member) |
| 20/05/07 02:46 PM |
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Re: DR doubling ---- Intentionally
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Wasn't PHC known to let loose with both barrels?
| Will |
| (.333 member) |
| 21/05/07 09:41 PM |
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Re: DR doubling ---- Intentionally
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Not to be argumentative but energy is just mass and velocity squared.
Doubling will give you twice the energy and not four times.
The one time I did it by accidentally pulling the rear trigger the only reason I knew it was because I heard the two shots. But it was a hunting situation and recoil doesn't mean as much.
| Will |
| (.333 member) |
| 21/05/07 09:46 PM |
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Re: DR doubling ---- Intentionally
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My guess would be that one would have to have their wits about them to be able to pull both triggers at the same time in an emergency situation. A lot of hunting experience or someone sharper than I.
Sten Cedergren talks about doing it on a big bull elephant with his 500 in Buzz's video.
| xausa |
| (.400 member) |
| 22/05/07 06:39 AM |
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Re: DR doubling ---- Intentionally
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When you fire two rounds at once the bullet energy doubles, because the mass of the bullet doubles, while the velocity remains the same. However, the recoil velocity of the rifle doubles, since the mass of the rifle remains the same. (Every action has a separate and equal reaction). The recoil energy varies with the square of the recoil velocity, as you pointed out, so the recoil energy is (two squared) four times as great.
| Will |
| (.333 member) |
| 22/05/07 10:00 AM |
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Re: DR doubling ---- Intentionally
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True. I stand corrected.
| Bramble |
| (.375 member) |
| 24/05/07 09:14 AM |
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Re: DR doubling ---- Intentionally
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In testing my 450#2 for regulation I was getting tired after 30 rounds and let my grip loosen a fraction. Got a sequential discharge shoulder and gun wise no problem, but the comb hit me on the cheek bone under the eye. The last thing that hit me that hard was in a ring, West Indian and about 16 stone. Nuff said.
Regards