(.400 member)

10/02/17 04:25 AM

W-R .577/.500

One of our members is liquidating part of his collection and among the offerings is a W-R in .577/.500, should anyone be interested. http://www.gunbroker.com/All/BI.aspx?IncludeSellers=25187

(.416 member)

10/02/17 07:12 AM

Re: W-R .577/.500

What a wonderful old piece that is!
Hope one of you guys gets it - grouping looks good too!
Capt Curl might have his eye on this one???

(.300 member)

11/02/17 02:52 AM

Re: W-R .577/.500

Great cartridge! I've had a similar double by Jos. Manton for over 30 years and love it. My loads are very close to his with similar groups. Knocks the poop out of deer and pigs!
Best.

(.400 member)

16/02/17 04:57 AM

Re: W-R .577/.500

Just to be precise and no confusion by the "W-R" subject description: the rifle is not a "Westley Richards"
It is a W. Richards of Liverpool, whole different lesser known maker, tho still a first quality Brit gun maker.
- Mike

(.400 member)

16/02/17 09:56 AM

Re: W-R .577/.500

William Richards is the Great Grandfather to Westley Richards.

(.400 member)

16/02/17 01:38 PM

Re: W-R .577/.500

Quote:

William Richards is the Great Grandfather to Westley Richards.

Right you are! Lots of inter related gunmaking houses in those days......
Very nice looking rifle too.
- Mike

(.333 member)

17/02/17 02:41 AM

Re: W-R .577/.500

So who won this beauty?????

(.400 member)

17/02/17 06:08 AM

Re: W-R .577/.500

Quote:

So who won this beauty?????

'Twas I.......
As soon as it arrives I will post more info & try to get photobucket to cooperate so I can post more pictures.
- Mike

(.416 member)

17/02/17 06:33 AM

Re: W-R .577/.500

Quote:

William Richards is the Great Grandfather to Westley Richards.

Didn't the company owned by William Richards go to Westley and the name change to Westley Richards?
Of course all long before this rifle was made?

I agree with 3dogmike on this one.
Good looking gun though and a good buy I think.

(.400 member)

17/02/17 10:39 AM

Re: W-R .577/.500

According to the present "W. Richards" they have been a separate name and business since founding:
http://www.wrichardsguns.co.uk/history.html

I plan to contact them to see if they still have the old records relevant to this rifle.
- Mike

"On the Western Slope of Colorado"

(.416 member)

17/02/17 01:27 PM

Re: W-R .577/.500

Well now we surely need to get together to shoot our 577 and 500 No.2 doubles!
Looking forward to your report.
I know Buckstix knows how to get a gun to shoot so his load is probably what it wants to be fed.

(.400 member)

18/02/17 04:08 AM

Re: W-R .577/.500

Ben,
A big boomer get together would be great! Order up some warmer weather........maybe after ski season.
I will be interested to try the .577/.500 #2, I already have a decent supply of 350 grain and 440 grain 1-30 lead paper patch .50's to duplicate original BP with Swiss 1 1/2 and NfB loads with H4198

The Buckstix load noted on that target is right in the ballpark.
- Mike

(.400 member)

23/02/17 03:44 PM

Re: W-R .577/.500

Expect this one to be delivered late tomorrow afternoon! Can't wait.
Have to get busy casting some .50 440grain Paper Patch to duplicate the common NfB load. I'm hoping for nicer weather so I can do more than see if it goes "bang".....
- Mike

(.400 member)

24/02/17 03:55 PM

W. Richards .577/.500 No.2

Rifle delivered this afternoon; only a few pictures because my internet and PhotoBucket are mostly at odds these days.

Circa 1876; non-rebounding locks, Jones underlever (LOG), wedge forend fastener. Tight & on face action, pristeen Henry rifled bores, wood and metal not been mucked with. Engraving is a bit simpler compared to the better grade & more mainstream names.
Dies and 20 Bertram brass included so I can get busy and load some test rounds.
One sample round made up with a 440 grain PP bullet.

Black bear next season?

More in the next couple of days.
- Mike

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(.416 member)

25/02/17 08:27 AM

Re: W. Richards .577/.500 No.2

Quote:

Rifle delivered this afternoon; only a few pictures because my internet and PhotoBucket are mostly at odds these days.

Circa 1876; non-rebounding locks, Jones underlever (LOG), wedge forend fastener. Tight & on face action, pristeen Henry rifled bores, wood and metal not been mucked with. Engraving is a bit simpler compared to the better grade & more mainstream names.
Dies and 20 Bertram brass included so I can get busy and load some test rounds.
One sample round made up with a 440 grain PP bullet.

Black bear next season?

More in the next couple of days.
- Mike

3DM,
that is one of the most impressive pieces of kit that I've seen!
An heirloom that's for sure & in what appears to be all but perfect condition!
The engraving I particularly enjoy as its embellishes rather than 'shows off' the rifle!

Black bears better be on the list mate, this rifle was made for that type of game.
Next year is a fair way off yet mate so better get cracking on those loads for us to see what this piece can do!

I like the PP round mate, that the same size weigh mine turn out for my .500.
(Ruger No1 so is isn't in this class at all)
Certainly gone to a good home, we're all envious!
With a rifle this good, you will have to get the case restored to is former glory as well with all the snap caps, turnkeys, oil bottles etc!

93x64mm

(.300 member)

25/02/17 09:30 AM

Re: W. Richards .577/.500 No.2

Mike,

That's a beautiful rifle and it looks to be in excellent condition. Congratulations on your purchase! Please add more photos when you get a chance

Cheers,

Jim

(.375 member)

25/02/17 02:59 PM

Re: W. Richards .577/.500 No.2

Plus one for the condition, the rose and scroll engraving is my preference, certainly nicer than a plain rifle

It is in better condition than my .577/500 Rodda double that was cut down (posted as Howdah rifle? In DR archive)

I have not shot it yet (this is the uk!!) but the dealer said it shot well, albeit leaving him with a sore shoulder after 20 rounds

Good luck with your shooting, more pics and loads please!

Tony

(.400 member)

03/03/17 04:07 AM

Re: W. Richards .577/.500 No.2

Cold Season update:
It's 0�F (-17C) in the mornings and variously about a foot of snow where I shoot, too cold for me!
Sooo, it has been time to cast up some bullets and get them patched.

440grain solid from an older Tom Ballard adjustable mould and 340grain hollow point from a Steve Brooks mould. Cast from 1:30 sourced from Buffalo Arms. They also have the 100% rag .002" onionskin patching paper.

Waiting for a custom shellholder from RCBS before I get much farther.
- Mike

[/URL]

(.700 member)

03/03/17 04:14 AM

Re: W. Richards .577/.500 No.2

Oh boy - fun ahead - what a beautiful NA big game hunting rifle!
Wyoming buffalo would be a nice addition to it's bag.

(.400 member)

03/03/17 04:15 AM

Re: W. Richards .577/.500 No.2

Quote:

Plus one for the condition, the rose and scroll engraving is my preference, certainly nicer than a plain rifle

It is in better condition than my .577/500 Rodda double that was cut down (posted as Howdah rifle? In DR archive)

I have not shot it yet (this is the uk!!) but the dealer said it shot well, albeit leaving him with a sore shoulder after 20 rounds

Good luck with your shooting, more pics and loads please!

Tony

Tony,
I was in the USAF based at RAF Bentwaters back in '79 thru '81 so I'm sympathetic to your firearms restrictions.......and they have only gotten tougher since I was there.
Recoil is stout on these .500 BP Express if using the full on black powder loads. NfB loads are much more pleasant!
- Mike

(.400 member)

03/03/17 04:19 AM

Re: W. Richards .577/.500 No.2

Quote:

Oh boy - fun ahead - what a beautiful NA big game hunting rifle!
Wyoming buffalo would be a nice addition to it's bag.

Hello Daryl,
Now that's a thought! Leave the .50 Shiloh at home and go with the .500

With the typical asking price for a buffalo hunt I think I will terrorise the local Black Bears this coming season.
- Mike

(.300 member)

03/03/17 06:33 AM

Re: W. Richards .577/.500 No.2

Quote:

Cold Season update:
It's 0�F (-17C) in the mornings and variously about a foot of snow where I shoot, too cold for me!
Sooo, it has been time to cast up some bullets and get them patched.

440grain solid from an older Tom Ballard adjustable mould and 340grain hollow point from a Steve Brooks mould. Cast from 1:30 sourced from Buffalo Arms. They also have the 100% rag .002" onionskin patching paper.

Waiting for a custom shellholder from RCBS before I get much farther.
- Mike

[/URL]

Mike
What are the diameters of the cast bullets?
Have you slugged the barrel? if so what are the dimensions.

(.400 member)

03/03/17 07:10 AM

Re: W. Richards .577/.500 No.2

dracb from BC,

The bare bullets are casting out at ~.501 for the 340g & ~.502 for the 440g so come to .507 and .508 respectively with a 2 wrap patch of onionskin paper.

The bores are 8 groove Henry type by Adams & Tate, actual "bore" at the tops of the lands at breech are ~.498" and muzzle ~.496"
The bottoms of the groove right adjacent to the lands are ~.511" at the muzzle.

Just like the originals I expect the 1:30 slightly "undersized" paper patch bullets will slug up to the barrel nicely. (Or at least they do in my other .500 3" BPE rifles).

I don't have a mould to cast suitable grease groove bullets for the .500 BPE types, "they" say that the Henry type rifling does best with paper patch anyway.
Interestingly enough I have a Cogswell & Harrison single shot in .500/.450 No1 Express with Henry type rifling that shoots astoundingly small groups with the RCBS .458 300g Gas Check bullet cast 1:20 so the conventional wisdom is not always accurate. I have never slugged the bore on that one.
- Mike

(.700 member)

03/03/17 09:21 AM

Re: W. Richards .577/.500 No.2

Something my brother and I did with our 3 1/4" cased black powder .45's, was to use an undersized bullet, that when PATCHED, came to .451", ie: .001" over bore diameter.

Thus, when a lubed paper patched bullet was pushed through the bore, it went easily and was marked only by the lands, just as detailed in Paul Mathews Book, when reprinting - ohhh damn- I've forgotten his name, now - a famous buffalo killer, explaining how bullets should fit the bore AFTER they are patched.

Taylor and I did this and both achieved ALMOST MOA at 100 meters - my Hoch barreled Rolling Block produced 1.3" average, while Taylor's Shiloh gave him 1.5".

The 100gr.2F in my brother's rifle and 122gr.2F in mine effectively slugged the bullets up perfectly.

The really nice aspect of this sort of patching, is that the next ctg. is easily chambered, no matter how much bullet sticks out of the case. As it, with patch, is only bore size, a proper lube on the previous shot leaves the fouling soft - chambering is easy.

(.416 member)

03/06/17 05:19 PM

Re: W. Richards .577/.500 No.2

Quote:

Cold Season update:
It's 0�F (-17C) in the mornings and variously about a foot of snow where I shoot, too cold for me!
Sooo, it has been time to cast up some bullets and get them patched.

440grain solid from an older Tom Ballard adjustable mould and 340grain hollow point from a Steve Brooks mould. Cast from 1:30 sourced from Buffalo Arms. They also have the 100% rag .002" onionskin patching paper.

Waiting for a custom shellholder from RCBS before I get much farther.
- Mike

[/URL]

How goes the loading 3DM??

(.400 member)

06/06/17 05:54 AM

Re: W. Richards .577/.500 No.2

Hello Barry,
(BTW: Reply to your PM sent)
"......How goes the loading?...."

Well, not very quickly as I have (stupidly on my part) been at the mercy of RCBS and their handling of my order for a shellholder to fit the Bertram .577/.500 No.2 brass. (The shellholder was out of stock)
My only comments would be:
1) it has been since 3 March that I ordered a shellholder and posted a brass case to RCBS for testing the fit. Five phone calls and 3 MONTHS later the RCBS staff claim that they are posting said shellholder this week....oooops!
2) RCBS might have a great warranty.....but it just is not the company that it used to be. "Vista Outdoor", the holding company/owner, should be ashamed.
Fred Huntington would be apoplectic at the "customer service" these days.

I've been a loyal RCBS/Huntingtons customer for 40 years.......I think my loyalty has been tested enough and it is time to switch to CH-4D or Redding.

RANT ENDED....

At any rate I have loaded and shot 10 fresh Betrram .577/.500 No.2, 4 loaded with black powder, greased felt wad, and 340 grain PP as well as 6 NfB with 54 grains H4198, foam backer rod, and a 440 grain PP.
Only was able to shoot offhand at 30 yards but all shots stayed in a 6" circle.
Expect more info once I actually receive a shellholder........ :-((
- Mike

(.416 member)

07/06/17 02:30 AM

Re: W. Richards .577/.500 No.2

Hope it comes soon for you.
Another option is to cut a wider groove in a standard 577 shell holder. If you can get one of those...

(.400 member)

22/06/17 02:00 PM

Re: W. Richards .577/.500 No.2

The shellholder saga.......RCBS.......not so "precisioneered" as is their years old Fred Huntington RCBS motto.

Being as a .577NE is larger both in rim diameter and base diameter compared to the .577/.500 No.2, I asked RCBS to make me a proper shell holder to fit since they were "out if stock".
That was last March 2017

Below photos show the half assed excresence that was delivered to me yesterday; a .577NE shellholder that had simply had the rim thickness milled up to .060". Overall fit is, as you can see, miserably loose.
I have today sent this POS back to RCBS; there has been no reply to my email and no return of my phone message. They are woefully inadequate at responding to their customers in a timely fashion.

As noted in prior posts, I have (had) been a happy RCBS/Huntington customer for better than 40 years. The "Vista Outdoor" conglomerate ought to be ashamed. RCBS must be satisfied to be selling to retail outlets like Cabelas and getting no feedback?

I am sceptically awaiting the further delays in my reloading efforts.
- Mike

BTW: I even sent RCBS 4 sample fired Bertram .577/.500 No.2 cases to use in getting things correct.....what a goat rope.

(.400 member)

22/06/17 09:32 PM

Re: W. Richards .577/.500 No.2

The RCBS products of old used to be good but not anymore. Everything they make needs re-machining and or modifying to make it work properly. Their shell holders are also out of parallel by up to 0.010" across 1/2". They don't respond to emails at all. I use Redding Competition Shell Holders, very well made and priced, and dead parallel.

Waidmannsheil.

(.400 member)

23/06/17 04:59 AM

Re: W. Richards .577/.500 No.2

try to use the .577Snider shellholder. Works for my .577/500magnum.

(.400 member)

23/06/17 05:59 AM

Re: W. Richards .577/.500 No.2

Quote:

try to use the .577Snider shellholder. Works for my .577/500magnum.

The .577/.500 3 1/8" Magnum is yet another base and rim dimension; slightly smaller than .577NE and larger than .500 No.2, hence still the same problem with .500 No.2 in a Snider shellholder.

The nominal dimensions of the .577 Snider base and rim diameter are the same as .577NE with the Snider having a .065" thick rim while the .577NE has a .055" thick rim. The .577/.500 Magnum would be less sloppy fit by some thousands.

A "proper" shellholder for the .500 No.2 is a one of a kind beast.........pity that RCBS used to be known for "proper" and boasted "precisioneered" as opposed to "yep, close enough for the average rube".
- Mike

(.700 member)

23/06/17 07:01 AM

Re: W. Richards .577/.500 No.2 *DELETED* *DELETED* *DELETED*

Post deleted by Daryl_S

(.416 member)

23/06/17 07:55 AM

Re: W. Richards .577/.500 No.2

What part of the case prep are you held up at?
I've halfassed my way through loading lots of stuf even to the point of setting a case on top of a shell holder for sizing and then tapping the case out with a dowel.
Seating dies don't tend to hold the case so you could probably adjust the seat die up and seat with the case sitting on top of a shell holder too.
Priming is the problem without the proper shell holder.

I have a bunch of sized, primed and flared cases I could swap you or send me your brass and bullets and I can load them up for you.

(.275 member)

25/06/17 11:54 PM

Re: W. Richards .577/.500 No.2

Brink your needs to a local machinist, you may be surprised at who quickly your problems may go away

(.400 member)

01/07/17 05:56 AM

Re: W. Richards .577/.500 No.2

Zephyr:
Good thought. However my "local" machinist is 35 miles away and quoted an outrageous price.....hard to get good work done for a fair price.

I actually got a personal phone one Steve Koch with RCBS and the fellow was very apologetic, he said he has been at RCBS for 39 years, is going to personally take care of my issue within a couple of weeks. Apparently the toad/wanker/plod that had been assigned the project has, as they say, "left to pursue other interests". The staff found orders dating back to 2013 (!!!!!) that the guy had ignored/buried. Indicates to me a serious lack of management/supervisory capacity.

We shall see.
- Mike

(.416 member)

18/11/17 09:59 AM

Re: W. Richards .577/.500 No.2

How's the loading going for your 500 No2 3DM?
I have kept your loads safely tucked away for a rainy day.

(.400 member)

18/11/17 02:58 PM

Re: W. Richards .577/.500 No.2

Quote:

How's the loading going for your 500 No2 3DM?
I have kept your loads safely tucked away for a rainy day.

I guess an update is due:
Despite Mr. Steve Koch at RCBS being a very nice and polite guy the final word is that RCBS will no longer do any custom die work to a customers �unusual� chamber.........so I did not get any die to my chamber. Sad, they were a great company once upon a time. Fred Huntington is spinning in his grave.

At least I was able to get a proper .577/.500 No2 shell holder after much wasted phone time, etc. and I FINALLY got my fired cases returned. RCBS customer service is, as they say, �a cluster FLOP�

Due to work and home life I have not been able to do much of importance with the .500 No2 in quite a long time......
- Mike

Administrator

(.450 member)

18/11/17 11:06 PM

Re: W. Richards .577/.500 No.2

Quote:

. . .

Despite Mr. Steve Koch at RCBS being a very nice and polite guy the final word is that RCBS will no longer do any custom die work to a customers �unusual� chamber.........so I did not get any die to my chamber. Sad, they were a great company once upon a time. Fred Huntington is spinning in his grave.

. . .

I am truly distressed to read these comments. Bummer!

I am told that Hornady has a custom die service. I haven't used them, but it might be worth a try.

CH4D is also an option.

Good luck,
Curl

(.400 member)

19/11/17 04:57 AM

Re: W. Richards .577/.500 No.2

Just contact Dave at CH4D.

(.224 member)

02/12/17 11:56 AM

Re: W. Richards .577/.500 No.2

CH4D for me! I called them about a set of dies for a 9.3x82r Nimrod. I had them in hand 4 days later...ya can't beat that service.

(.400 member)

02/12/17 01:40 PM

Re: W. Richards .577/.500 No.2

Here is the short version of a longer story to my above posts:
Got a set of �standard� CH4D 577/500 No2 dies with the rifle, no shell holder.

The �standard� dies are likely dimensioned to the circa 1900 Kynoch drawings and excessively resize the cases (too much shoulder setback and case body resizing, not uncommon because there was no standardization in 1870�s-1880�s Black Powder Express dimensions. Just does not work too well to go �partial resizing� with the 577/500 No2 cases.

Needed to get a shellholder, and for obsolete BPE cases that often require basic cases I wanted to get a file type trim die to the fired cases.
You can follow the story as to RCBS..........what a shame.

As is I at least have a shellholder.....can you spell goat rope?

I did ask RCBS originally because over 40 years I had found that the �old RCBS� dies could not be equalled in dimension, interior polish, and finish. They far exceeded CH, Hornady, and Redding production or custom dies.
Well, so much for that.....goodbye RCBS.

Will try CH4D for a custom trim die from my fired cases, I hope that their quality equals the old RCBS and exceeds what I had found in late production CH4D products.
- Mike

(.416 member)

03/12/17 02:13 AM

Re: W. Richards .577/.500 No.2

Want to borrow mine?
I should have sent them with the forming set...

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