| rigbymauser |
| (.400 member) |
| 02/03/14 06:09 AM |
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Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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I finally found a .500express I wanted. Been looking at the one they had at William Lankins Moore for a long time. They gave me an offer that were too good to resist.
The gun is shipped!.
| Dutch44 |
| (.275 member) |
| 04/03/14 09:17 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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Beautiful rifle, RM. Do you have any load data for it? What weight lead projectile will you use? Please post targets when you have it in your hands and have had an opportunity to shoot it for regulation.
Dutch
| Dumprat |
| (.300 member) |
| 04/03/14 11:20 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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Beautiful rifle! But what are the lumps on the receiver above each barrel?
| LesLeeSpeed |
| (.300 member) |
| 04/03/14 11:54 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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Quote:
Beautiful rifle! But what are the lumps on the receiver above each barrel?
If anyone can answer this question, I am very interested. I had a 450 BPE almost identical to this and no one could tell me what they were for.
Regards
LesLeeSpeed
| tinker |
| (.416 member) |
| 04/03/14 12:24 PM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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A call or note to H&H would likely answer that.
Really nice rifle!
Cheers
Tinker
| 8borerifle |
| (.275 member) |
| 04/03/14 01:32 PM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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That is an early hammerless Holland and they are "fake hammers" that look like sighting a cocked hammer double rifle. I have a Royal Hammerless Holland and Holland .450 3 1/4" double rifle and it also has them. It was made in 1888. A transition from hammer to hammerless, no function but esthetic to make the transition from hammer to hammerless smoother.
| LesLeeSpeed |
| (.300 member) |
| 04/03/14 01:42 PM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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I think mine was 1887 manufacture, and that is a pretty good explanation.
| paradox_ |
| (.375 member) |
| 04/03/14 02:58 PM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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I did see this rifle at the Dallas show, it certainly was quite attractively priced.
I did hear a much more practical explanation for the lumps, but cant recall exactly. IT was of a more practical nature to ensure the barrels ( gape) were in the fully down position ( locks cocked). ie the lumps ensured you could not load cartridges unles the gape was right.....dont quote me though.
Whatever the explantion I doubt if it was to replicate a Hammer rifle.
Best
Eric
| paradox_ |
| (.375 member) |
| 04/03/14 03:02 PM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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PS wasnt this rifle a 577/500???, or am I mistaken?
Best
Eric
| rigbymauser |
| (.400 member) |
| 05/03/14 03:42 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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Thanks Guys!!!!.
Me too have wondered about these"humps" on the breech..but I too had a suspicion it might had something with a transition period of some kind. This rifle was for sale for over 2 years at LARKINS but no movement at all...and everytime I was looking at GI I really wanted this rifle. I guess my name was written all over this gun here.
Watson577 here on this forum has been very kind to share a few loads from his own personal experiences from a similar calibered rifle. Ballistic wise we are looking at a 475grain bullet at
1875 ft/sec as a regulating max load. EleyBros. loaded this special cartridge with a 480grain solid....where most other loads are found with a 440grain express bullet.
The serie# is 12354. Larking had the ledger on this gun so it would be interesting to get some history on this rifle too. I will defintly keep you all updated. Thanks for showing interest.
| paradox_ |
| (.375 member) |
| 05/03/14 10:03 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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Thank you Rigby
Looking forward to seeing some test targets
Best
Eric
| AkMike |
| (.416 member) |
| 05/03/14 12:40 PM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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Very nice rifle! I've also drooled over it for some time and I want to thank you for removing it from my temptation!
I have 2 Alex Henry 577/500 Mags. 1 hammer gun and 1 hammerless, so if I may be of any help with your loads and such feel free to PM me.
CptCurl
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| 05/03/14 09:48 PM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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Nice rifle! Keep us updated on how it shoots. We love these kinds of things!
Curl
| 8borerifle |
| (.275 member) |
| 06/03/14 12:42 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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From an article written by Ross Seyfried in the Autumn 1996 Double Gun Journal titled Transitions Double Rifles from Black Powder to Smokeless.
He references a Holland and Holland .450 Royal Hammerless like mine except mine has animals engraved all over the action and locks.
Here is is quote on the "lumps" on top of the breech.
"Atop the standing breech are two bumps. These protrusions are clearly without purpose beyond ornament, unless you attach purpose to clinging nostalgia. The bumps are vestigial HAMMERS! Alas, shooters had a very difficult time letting go of this most elegant form of firearm"
| rigbymauser |
| (.400 member) |
| 06/03/14 05:14 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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What I am really interested in is to find out when(what year) the .577/500 Magnum Express was made and WHO was the originator?. It stands for me as a "mystery" cartridge with a sexy look. It looks special as it is a BN configuration and not much litteratur is found regarding it. Somehow it never made into a full Nitro..perhaps the straightwall cartridges was more efficient in the long run in nitro configuration?.
As for me I donīt care about "efficiency"..I just like it because it looks good!!. In my book a backaction doublerifle with Jones Underlever and Dolls head ext doesnīt become much finer.
A special THANKS to AKmike and WATSON577 WHO have been a great inspiration for this very caliber!.
| AkMike |
| (.416 member) |
| 06/03/14 08:19 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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I did a quick look thru my books and didn't find what I was looking for. IIRC this was a Scottish round. Henry or Fraser sticks in my mind for the originator.
WR is credited with the No2.
| rigbymauser |
| (.400 member) |
| 07/03/14 09:12 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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Just bought tickets for Afrika. I hope I will have this rifle ready in time for kudu hunts in Kalahari. That would be dandy to blast both barrels of into a kudu.
| Ash |
| (.400 member) |
| 07/03/14 11:19 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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You want to double discharge into a kudu!? *gasp shock horror*
Nah, hope you're all good to go, and good luck with the hunter when it happens. Splendid rifle, we expect pics. =D
| TH44 |
| (.375 member) |
| 07/03/14 11:21 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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Rigbymauser/AKMike
As you appear to have Hoyem and Fleming I can only support your observations that it would appear to be a necked down .577
The shorter case would probably be Westley Richards but the longer case may, as you say have a Scottish connection
The .500 Ex on the barrel flats is clearly of little use
Good luck with your Africa trip, you certainly have a top class calibre/ rifle combination for your trip
Good luck
Tony
| rigbymauser |
| (.400 member) |
| 11/03/14 05:58 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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Thank you Tony!.
Regarding the origin of the .577/500 Magnum:
When looking in the book "Eley Cartridges. A history of silversmiths and ammunition makers"(2006) written by C.W Harding the Eley cartridge had the .577/500 in program from 1885.
They started with a .577/500 BP Express from 1885-1909...then a Magnum BP.577/500 Express from 1892-1919 and a .577/500 Nitro magnum Express from 1904-1905. The latter might be the nitro-for-Black version.
I will have to investigate when Kynochs started their production of the .577/500 3 1/8".
| AkMike |
| (.416 member) |
| 12/03/14 02:19 PM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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Tony, the 577/500 mag is a schosh different than the 577. The rim diameter, thickness and the base diameter are all off just a touch.
| rigbymauser |
| (.400 member) |
| 18/03/14 11:43 PM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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..The gun is where it is suppose to be now..:LOL
| rigbymauser |
| (.400 member) |
| 19/03/14 03:15 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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my 3 backactions..
| mehulkamdar |
| (.416 member) |
| 25/03/14 01:49 PM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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Congratulations, Jens, my friend! One more treasure for you to add to your gunsafe! may there be many, many more, because you will care for them, hunt with them, and keep them as good as new.
Good hunting!
| tinker |
| (.416 member) |
| 25/03/14 05:09 PM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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Excellent!
| Watson577 |
| (.300 member) |
| 29/03/14 08:29 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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Jens,
I'm glad that your new toy has arrived and I hope that it met your expectations! Now I need to get to work on some black powder loads for my 577/500 magnum express...
Regards,
Jim
| rigbymauser |
| (.400 member) |
| 03/04/14 03:07 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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Thanks Jim and others.
The gun was as expected..and actually a Little better..
| rigbymauser |
| (.400 member) |
| 28/07/14 05:27 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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yesterday I went shooting the gun and had time to experiment. It was very hot in the weather and shooting the rifle made the barrels blistering..
Just before my first shots .
Here the target. I tried at 25 paces offhand first to see if the gun was within minut-of-barndoor.
My very two first shots was on the left target. The last two shot then went right..printing too much to the left. Bare in mind that thisis the first time I actually got this thing going..
After four shots I couldnīt hold unto the barrels.
My load was 70grain Vithavouri 130 + 16mm backerrod as filler. Bullet was 505grain solid and 480grain hollowpoint. Velocity Vo= 532 m/sec regardsless of bullet weight.The shot-to-shot variation was only 7 m/sec(23ft/sec)from both barrels. So the barrels seems to be equal perfect.
Moving on to 80 paces with a 445grain solid my two shots went a little high. I was using shootingstics and rested the rifle directly:
My NeXT two shots using shootingstics the gun were a littlemore "Loose"
The bertram brass I am using is very soft. Some cases couldn`t hold on to the leadbullet and therefore were a Little loose. The RCBS dies I was using squeezes the neck soo much I thought it was meant to shoot .475cal bullets.
I will be ordering Horneber cases and may order a new set of dies. The most importing thing is this that this rifle has potential.
Another good H&H.500express join in too..
| rigbymauser |
| (.400 member) |
| 12/10/14 08:37 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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From "Big Game Shooting"(1894).
The 577/500 Magnum is mentioned.
This is the first book I have found where this caliber is mentioned.
| TH44 |
| (.375 member) |
| 12/10/14 10:02 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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Jens - I have seen similar recommendations [double 8 bore + .500 express (not bottlenecked) + smaller calibre], as a good all round "armoury" to take both to Africa and India. The extra "poke" of the .500 was probably appreciated
Interestingly, the only criticism of my H&H 8 bore from H&H was that the later Nitro Proof was unneccessary as the damascus barrels were well up to the standard for nitro [30 + years later]
Good luck with your shooting, it looks like a good one
Tony
| rigbymauser |
| (.400 member) |
| 23/10/14 05:36 PM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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| tinker |
| (.416 member) |
| 23/10/14 06:29 PM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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Nice!
Please show a couple of fired cases next to loaded rounds.
Have you measured the case neck diameter of fired cases?
| rigbymauser |
| (.400 member) |
| 24/10/14 09:02 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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Quote:
Nice!
Please show a couple of fired cases next to loaded rounds.
Have you measured the case neck diameter of fired cases?
I havenīt measured casenecks..but I am going to. My steel caliper is lost and I must get a new one.
The dieset I have from RCBS squeezes the neck too much down so I thought of returning the dieset to RCBS with a case fired from my rifle. Maybe the can re-do it?.(I ask them first ofcouse)
| rigbymauser |
| (.400 member) |
| 24/10/14 10:23 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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extracts from "Sport on the Nilgiris and in Wynaad"(1911)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| rigbymauser |
| (.400 member) |
| 02/12/14 04:57 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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Hi Tinker.
A loaded round has a .535" neck diameter(.510" bullet)
A fired case measure .537" -//-
The RCBS full length sizing die sqeezes the caseneck down to .508" which is smaller than the actual bullet. Then one can subtract the casewall which again leaves whatever is left to the bullet.
The Bertram cases I have which didnīt fit the gun has a .655" casehead diameter.
The casehead in my gun must be .642" in order to fit.
This more or less confirm Bertram has used standard .577 Express to make .577/500 Magnum cases.
| tinker |
| (.416 member) |
| 02/12/14 04:59 PM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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Thanks!
Definitely looks like a call for different brass and different dies.
Cheers
Tinker
| rigbymauser |
| (.400 member) |
| 15/04/15 03:11 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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Just an update.
I have now a sure confirmation from Reimer Johansen, that .577/500 Magnum cases from Dieter Horneber has the correct casehead-diameter of 16,33mm(.642"). It took awhile but it was will worth the time. Cases ordered!!.
| rigbymauser |
| (.400 member) |
| 24/12/15 07:26 PM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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Good news!.
Reimer Johannesen can deliver Horneber 100 cases next year before July 2016. $5 a piece. Ainīt that bad. Meanwhile Iīll have to settle with Bertrams. I have 12 Bertrams left meaning 12 shots I can shoot before i get the Horneber cases. Some of these Bertram cases split in the caseneck after once fired. Very discouraging when I want to shoot the gun more that I have done.
My gunsmith has promised that once we get the new cases he will take a look on the RCBS dies and custom fit them.
| rigbymauser |
| (.400 member) |
| 09/01/18 04:24 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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GOOD NEWS!!!!!.
Rocky Mountain Cartridge(RMC)will do the brass!.
After almost 4 years of waiting from Dieter Horneber and emty promises there is a light at the end of the tunnel.
I almost given up and was ready to sell the gun to get another BPE rifle.
lIfE iS gOod!.
| tinker |
| (.416 member) |
| 09/01/18 04:51 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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Excellent news, Progress!
| rigbymauser |
| (.400 member) |
| 17/05/20 09:36 PM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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The gun is still here. I have decided to have a set of new barrels made up i a .500 straight case. I have here recently found one here in Denmark who had some 350 pieces of .470brass. That can easely be mase into .500 3ž" cases.
The .577/500 magnum is apealling but a pain to find high quality brass for. With a new set of barrels I can shoot fra lead to steeljacket bullet without fuzz.
Then chamberwalls will become thicker but it can take a slight higher pressure. To drive a 440-500 grain @ 1900 ft/sec should be well reached. Maybe a leadbullet of 570-600grain @ 1700 ft/sec would knock a buff over.
I love this HH gun. Far more interesting than any modern dr. I wished they still made such actions.
| tinker |
| (.416 member) |
| 17/05/20 10:10 PM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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Take a look at this site.
I've spoken with them - their process and their special alloy are worth some consideration.
https://www.rccbrass.com/
| rigbymauser |
| (.400 member) |
| 18/05/20 06:18 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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Quote:
Take a look at this site.
I've spoken with them - their process and their special alloy are worth some consideration.
https://www.rccbrass.com/
Thanks. I know of them. I might order some for the original caliber just to have some.
A new set of barrels where I can shoot every kind of bullet and have a scopemount system milled into the rip and I can use this gun til old age. Then some day a collector in many years to come is gonna hear about this gun and come by to look at it. He`ll see the gun was made for the .500 Magnum and state" I just wished you had the original barrels"..Then I am gonna say:" Hold my beer"...:LOL
| 93x64mm |
| (.416 member) |
| 18/05/20 10:14 PM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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Rigbymauser, are you just doing NFB loads or doing full BP loads in the future?
Please correct me if I am wrong, but this cartridge isn't the 577/500 No2 - or is it?
There were so many different chamberings it is hard not to get confused!
| rigbymauser |
| (.400 member) |
| 20/05/20 12:40 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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Quote:
Rigbymauser, are you just doing NFB loads or doing full BP loads in the future?
Please correct me if I am wrong, but this cartridge isn't the 577/500 No2 - or is it?
There were so many different chamberings it is hard not to get confused!
it is as the headline says...577/500 Magnum 3 1/8 " case 6 drams.
I`ll just do nfb loads.
| DarylS |
| (.700 member) |
| 20/05/20 01:32 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland .577/500 Magnum
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Quote:
Thanks. I know of them. I might order some for the original caliber just to have some.
A new set of barrels where I can shoot every kind of bullet and have a scopemount system milled into the rip and I can use this gun til old age. Then some day a collector in many years to come is gonna hear about this gun and come by to look at it. He`ll see the gun was made for the .500 Magnum and state" I just wished you had the original barrels"..Then I am gonna say:" Hold my beer"...:LOL
Sounds like a good plan to me. Accurate Arms, now Western Powders and Hodgdon used to have smokeless data for the .50 3 1/4" Sharps, driving 500gr. bullets at just over 2,000fps with 30,000psi(or CUP) pressures FYI. I might be able to find that data.