| 4biga1 |
| (.224 member) |
| 12/04/04 10:35 AM |
bolt action double rifle ?
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There was a post a few months ago which was talking about a bolt action double rifle. By the pictures it look like a Blaser bolt action.Can anyone tell me who made it?
| DUGABOY1 |
| (.400 member) |
| 13/04/04 10:24 PM |
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Re: bolt action double rifle ?
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In reply to:
There was a post a few months ago which was talking about a bolt action double rifle. By the pictures it look like a Blaser bolt action.Can anyone tell me who made it?
It was made by someone who has no idea what a double rifle is supposed to be, or do! It is an over engenered, pushfeed, heavy as lead, expencive as a fine Purdey, and with the ballance of an anvil, abortion, IMO! Someone in Canada made it, 20 years ago! The price is not the only reason you never see them!
If pressed, I'll tell you how I really feel about them!
NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 14/04/04 01:23 AM |
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The bolt action double was probably a Fuchs.
Don't worry about Mac. He secretly wants one really bad.
| 4seventy |
| (Sponsor) |
| 14/04/04 08:48 AM |
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Re: bolt action double rifle ?
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In reply to:
Don't worry about Mac. He secretly wants one really bad.
Hey now, who's the one that features a piccy of the muzzels of this very same rifle in their banner logo? Huh?
We all know who really covets this double monstosity!
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 14/04/04 09:41 AM |
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It's called expediency, until I do a photograph of a different double.
| hubel458 |
| (.375 member) |
| 14/04/04 04:35 PM |
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Re: bolt action double rifle ?
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They were engineered by Josef Szecsei of Windsor,
Ontario, CAN. He had both SxS and O/U. Made prototypes about 10 years ago and then had a EU company make some.
I have an old brochure with info and pics.Ed.
| Tom_Bigbore |
| (.224 member) |
| 14/04/04 08:48 PM |
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It´s probably a Fuchs - Szecsei. See http://www.jagdwaffe.com/english/index_e.html
Fuchs built double bolt action rifles up 700 cal.
IMO they know what they are doing.
Tom
| 4seventy |
| (Sponsor) |
| 15/04/04 08:14 AM |
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Re: bolt action double rifle ?
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In reply to:
It's called expediency, until I do a photograph of a different double.
Yes, we all know that you eventually intend to feature the muzzels of a "proper" double in your banner, ie an over/under, but, will you still also feature the second best double style which is of course the side by side?
| vigillinus |
| (.300 member) |
| 15/04/04 02:07 PM |
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Have seen them at the Las Vegas gun show. Beautifully made monstrosity.
| Gibbs505 |
| (.333 member) |
| 16/04/04 09:07 AM |
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Now that is a oxymoron!!
| M82A1Barret50Cal |
| (.275 member) |
| 22/04/04 11:24 AM |
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I agree with Mac, it completely destroys the purpose of the double rifle...
M82A1
| Double_Trouble |
| (.375 member) |
| 03/05/06 01:24 AM |
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Re: bolt action double rifle ?
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Hello I am a new member and was drawn to this site based on a search I was doing on the DR in this thread....hey Dugaboy1 ....when and where did you handle the Szecsei/Fuchs double bolt? and who quoted you the price?
Double Trouble
| pwm |
| (.300 member) |
| 03/05/06 05:08 AM |
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Re: bolt action double rifle ?
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have had Fuchse double barrel bolt actions in my hand and they are better than you imagine. this means handling, I havnt shot it, hard to do on a gun show.
| Double_Trouble |
| (.375 member) |
| 03/05/06 09:15 PM |
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I think that that is where you and I differ from dugaboy PWM, we have both handled them and know the difference. I too think that the Szecsei/Fuchs DBR is fantastically made and very well balanced.
the looks of the rifle are decieving as it appears ( visually ) to be heavy but when hefted, you soon learn that the rifle checks in at a respectable wieght at around 11 lbs.
for the calibers we are talking about and the game these firearms are meant to bring down, I wouldnt want to be carrying much less.
Did you handle the Szecsei/Fuchs at an SCI show?
| pwm |
| (.300 member) |
| 05/05/06 02:19 AM |
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no, it was on the IWA in Nürnberg, quality of the work is outstanding, if you like it or not is your own opinion.
in any case it will be a highligth in any gun collection in hundred years.
| Double_Trouble |
| (.375 member) |
| 05/05/06 05:42 AM |
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I agree.... Mr. Fuchs takes a back seat to no maker that i have ever seen and, fortunate for me, i have had both teh honour and pleasure to shoulder a great number of well made guns both at shows such as SCI and IWA as well as on the range from time to time.
IMO Fuchs runs with best that are, or ever have been, in the business.
| mickey |
| (.416 member) |
| 05/05/06 12:01 PM |
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I guess I fall in the middle here, sort of.
The workmanship is very good, the weight , workable. The balance atrocious. Point ability is near zero.
To keep the weight under control the barrels and action use titanium. They are very muzzle light, making them a bugger to get on target.
It points much more like a bolt rifle than a Double. I guess this is as much as could be hoped for as it is neither fish nor fowl. It is an oddity and a curio that happens to be well constructed.
'Cuckoo Clockish'.
| mehulkamdar |
| (.416 member) |
| 05/05/06 12:39 PM |
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I have never seen one in the wood and metal leave alone shoot one but when Joseph Szecsei patented various designs I got his address through the gunwriter Holt Bodinson (a fine man from my communication with him) and I corresponded with Szecsei until my wife and I came to the USA, shortly before Fuchs started making two of the many variations designed by Szecsei.
There are many variations of the basic design that is being made by Fuchs including straight pull bolt actions to enable faster repeat shots, drillings and some discarded designs like one version that was based on the Mauser 66 short bolt design to make the rifles shorter and more handy. Szecsei was working on a CRF version also though I have no idea what happened since.
I enjoyed communicating with him - as an inventor who was working hard to perfect his designs he had many ideas and he had the means, courtesy his huge factory making the bodies for Ford vehicles to build whatever he wanted for himself. I would think that barring health problems or licensing and production issues he would have many more designs in the years to come, refinements of what is an initial concept for all practical purposes.
And a post script - there IS a Blaser double bolt, a grotesque rifle with two Blaser barreled actions attached together and two bolts, one on each side operating that particular barrel called the Blaser Duo. The company is so ashamed of this monstrosity that they do not even list it on their website.
Cheers!
| NE450No2 |
| (.375 member) |
| 05/05/06 02:06 PM |
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Mehul
If I had the money I would have to have one of those Blaser R 93 double rifles.
If only for the novelity of it.
A bbl set in 308 and one in 375.
| Double_Trouble |
| (.375 member) |
| 05/05/06 09:54 PM |
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Szecsei is still hard at it albeit at a slower pace with his hands but not with his mind....... he continues to create new models, assist in the refining of current models, and is anxiously awaiting the delivery of the first O/U model as produced by Fuchs.
From an earlier post: there are only a few Szecsei rifles with Ti barrels and two that come to mind are the brace (O/U & SxS) of Szecsei Safari Seven hundred a wild cat 1000 grain stopper that this gifted inventor came up with.
The rifles produced by Fuchs have Ti components , namely the reciever and the express sights and ramps, and scope base and rings, so I dont see that the rifles are muzzle light at all. perhaps you have handled one of the 700's and these proto types do indeed feel light at the business end but would be extrememly heavy had Szecsei not used Ti barrels
note: I support your comment on Mr. Bodinson a fine and very knowlegable man indeed.
If you have spoken with Szecsei, then you know that he doesnt mince words and what he builds ...... Works and works well!.......I would dearly love to have one of his rifles as produced by Fuchs ......inventive genious married with exquisite craftmanship,,,,, hard to beat that combo!
| Double_Trouble |
| (.375 member) |
| 05/05/06 10:45 PM |
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PWM...... I also saw it at IWA and at many SCI shows.
IWA was where the first production model was sold. The gun continues to gain a following and there are approx 50 rifles being used in the field, with orders on the books.
I believe it was two years ago at an SCI show in Reno that I saw a 375 SxS with stainless barrels and wood fit for royalty!
I cant get over the workmanship and could only imagine having a speciman such as that in my cabninet......
maybe one fine day.....sigh
| smicha6551 |
| (.275 member) |
| 06/05/06 02:02 AM |
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Mehul,
When you posted on the Blaser I thought, naa, there can't be - further there's a drilling they make which is called the Duo (upside down of course), maybe he's confused.
I'm sorry I looked:
I like the bolt knob and the wood though.
| Double_Trouble |
| (.375 member) |
| 06/05/06 03:39 AM |
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yes Blaser is having a go at copying the Szecsei DBR
Patent thieves !
| 500Nitro |
| (.450 member) |
| 06/05/06 06:55 AM |
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Double_Trouble
If it was patented I doubt they would be copying it ?
I would say the original DB Bolt Rifle would be patented for
the action used but they couldn't patent the concept of a DB Bolt Gun.
And I think the Blaser action system is well suited to the concept.
Not thatI'd own one but .........
500Nitro
| Double_Trouble |
| (.375 member) |
| 06/05/06 07:05 AM |
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500N:
there is some debate as to what they have and have not "liberated" from the Szecsei patent but it appears that there is certainly some strong "overlapping".
I will leave it at that except to say that the Szecsei/Fuchs gun is head and shoulders above the Blaser in form, fit, and function.
How are things down your way 500?... winter is fast approaching?
| 500Nitro |
| (.450 member) |
| 06/05/06 07:27 AM |
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Double Trouble
Yes, winter is here already - alot colder, however we have been in drought
for the last 5 years and the Summer Temps, even in Victoria which is down south
have been very high. I'm not a great fan of the really hot weather - but will put
up with 30 - 45 degrees when I go up North hunting although it gets pretty
uncomfortable trying to shoot in 40 degree heat with sweat pouring off your forehead !!!
Re "liberating", I believe you only have to change 10% to overcome a patent
and since the action is completely different, then I can see how they get away with it.
Nowadays, jumping on the band wagon of someone else is all the rage - not that
I agree with it but that is society.
500 Nitro
| mehulkamdar |
| (.416 member) |
| 06/05/06 09:15 AM |
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Double Trouble,
Szecsei was a very nice man to communicate with and if you are in touch with him, please convey my wishes for his good health. Holt Bodinson was also a fine gentleman to communicate with and if either of these gentlemen comes to the NRA convention at Milwaukee, I would be more than happy to buy them a drink. I can see that the many different ideas that Szecsei had would be difficult to implement and test - he downed a white rhino with one of the first rifles that he amde from scratch in his workshop if I remember - and I hope that he achieves the perfect balance that he desires and enjoys it. Yes, I have been the recipient of their very courteous and helpful communication and they are fine gentlemen.
| mehulkamdar |
| (.416 member) |
| 06/05/06 09:19 AM |
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Steven,
Thanks for posting this. I, too, found it confusing that Blaser sell one of their drillings under the name "Duo" though they must have a reason that mere mortals cannot understand. Yes, the wood looks nice but it is not the kind of rifle I would buy even if I had the money.
Good hunting!
| Double_Trouble |
| (.375 member) |
| 09/05/06 01:06 AM |
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Mehul: I will certainly pass on your good wishes to Szecsei when next I speak with him.
500: you may be correct about the 10% content factor ( I am not sure )
what I do know is that Blaser is not keen on answering mail on the subject (leads one to think if it smells like a rat ....then it's most likely a rat)
re the 45 degree temps .... you would find me indoors with a glass of cold ibeer in hand listening to the hum of the air conditioner! lol the only thing I would like at 45c would be a bowl of soup!
| 400NitroExpress |
| (.400 member) |
| 10/05/06 01:12 AM |
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Re: bolt action double rifle ?
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The Fuchs is a Gee-whizz engineering exercise, nothing more, and a particularly moronic one at that. It burdens the double rifle with all of the crippling disadvantages of the bolt rifle while offering no new advantage at all. It's a novelty bolt-action rifle, not a double rifle as it does not qualify as such. That a few take it seriously is illustrative of the accuracy of P. T. Barnum's maxim.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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CptCurl
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| (.450 member) |
| 10/05/06 06:03 AM |
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Boy do I agree with 400's statement above.
Can you imagine the silly mess that thing will have if one side jams, or if the mechanism gets some grit in it?
What happens if you fire the right barrel and then cycle the action?
On and on and on. . . When you were a kid did you ever have the board game "Mousetrap"? The object of the game is to build this outrageous contraption that spreads across the board and ultimately results in a chain-reaction to catch a mouse. The Fuchs rifle reminds me of that.
If I had that kind of money to spend on a DR I would spend it on something of value. (Can you imagine trolling one of those things around trying to recoup your money from it?)
Curl
| mehulkamdar |
| (.416 member) |
| 10/05/06 01:36 PM |
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Double Trouble,
Please let him know that I live a semi retired life in Chicago these days and that I moved to the US from Chennai, India, in 2004.
Thanks and good hunting!
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 11/05/06 07:58 PM |
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Re: bolt action double rifle ?
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In reply to:'
Poster: NE450No2
Subject: Re: bolt action double rifle ?
Mehul
If I had the money I would have to have one of those Blaser R 93 double rifles.
If only for the novelity of it.
A bbl set in 308 and one in 375.
NE450No2
You would want one with a 28 g set of barrels too I think.
Bolt actioned double barrel shotgun.
| Double_Trouble |
| (.375 member) |
| 03/06/06 05:02 AM |
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400...... it is far more than a "gee wiz" excercise in engineering although it is quite an engineering marvel.
the rifle was brought to light after the inventor had a conventional dr double fire on him during a buff hunt. The rifle was his answer to avoid a re-occurance.
and 400 as you"seem" to be speaking from a position of knowledge..... would you please quantify your phrase "That a few take it seriously"
as for your question curl....... if you fire the right(or left) barrel only and then cycle the action, you eject both a spent shell and a live round and both chambers are then re loaded.
your aother queeries arent really worth spending a great deal of time on in answering as they are conditions that may arise with any firearm .....bolt or break action.
By the way ,,,,, it can be made to accomodate shotgun shells in your choice of guage ....28 or other.
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CptCurl
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| (.450 member) |
| 19/08/06 10:14 PM |
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Here's an interesting video of the Fuchs double bolt rifle in action:
http://www.fuchs-fine-guns.com/movies/weltpatent.mov
I have to admit it's an engineering marvel with flawless execution. Still not my cup of tea, though.
Given the opportunity I would like to shoot one!
Curl
| Grizzly |
| (.333 member) |
| 20/08/06 02:01 AM |
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The Blaser bolt is a good start to a finely pimped double.
Me, I'm holding out for a double magazine fed semi automatic double rifle
. Now THAT would be some fine engineering.
| Chasseur |
| (.375 member) |
| 20/08/06 02:53 PM |
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As much as I hate to admit this, I was kinda impressed by the video. I'd like to shoot too. Though its still not for me...