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405 Belted DWR Ohio let you use a straight wall, any length. Unlike Michigan’s 1.8” length. So I built an Ohio rifle, will work fine in Missouri! Started with a Sako 366 case, long and a fat .470 diameter. [neck is thin] With the belt, the case is 2.590”…………so I tried some Quality Cartridge 400 Whelen brass. Now the neck is .4385-.439”! I had to open the neck up .004”. QC brass is about .010” shorter, no big deal. Started with some Hornady Flat Points and Varget…….2340 fps. Then some 300 TSX’s and Varget….2220 fps. 270 TSX and Benchmark………2570. Tried some CFE Black, a bit too Fast! Then 300 TSX and Benchmark………….2545 fps. [Holy Crap!]……… [.700 for 3 shots] 210 TSX and H4198, at 3000 fps and .800” for 3 shots. Savage Axis HB test rifle, has also been a .500 Alaskan rebated rim. Factory plastic stock, is ugly, but still doing fine. Scope is a 4-14, mounted high………the rings I had. I have been cutting down Barnes coppers for over 20 years. The old 300s made a nice 240, that I used out of my “pistol”. .41-240x2.170”, 14.5” bbl. [no grooves] Anyway I have a 23” Shilen barrel and homemade reamers made this project! Sizes with Hornady 405 Win dies. Oh, the throat is about .200 long, so I can seat the 300 TSX at 3.440” Homemade belting dies and a final trim on the lathe, make the belt! Now for some water testing! I shoot down into a bag lined 40 gal trash can. With a layer of cardboard over the top. No cardboad = bath!!!!! You cannot get out of the way of a tube of water rising!!!!! Point blank is 300 yds with the 210s. DWR! |
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I'm following your project over on AR. Superb work!! I'm sure the folks here would love to see photos. |
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Brass 366 Sako Shortened TSX Bullets Qualit Cartridge 400 Whelen Brass Pictures from Google don't work so well here, but these links do. |
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Interesting concept, Bruce. |
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Dam thing turned out more powerful than I wanted....I guess. 300 at 2545 and 210 at 3000 The 210s kind of shorten up a but when shot into water. The 350 looked as expected! Bullet tests |
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Some history on this project: I wanted to try to belt some 30/06 cases to make brass for my "pistol" 41-240x2.170". I have plenty of 240 brass, but wanted to try belting. The 06 brass woked fine, but.......when shortened , it also needed inside neck reaming. So, I tried 7x57 w/w brass, it worked fine. Even did a 13 shot test on one case. No problems! I load the 41-240 with shortened 405 dies, so why not make a full length version for a bolt gun! So when I made the belting dies, I also made a set to belt a Steyr case. A belted 444 Marlin. They work great also! Jeffeosso suggested turning the belt off Mag cases and trying to make the 444 out of more common brass than the Steyr case. That worked great! Now that lead to the Belted Ought Six Straightwall, the "BOSS". So now I have three different lines of case to mess with.405B, 444B and the BOSS. Did I say that I am trying to finish up my case annealer? So what are your projects? |
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Quite the projects, Bruce. Not up to anything of much. Just playing with some .25 calibre PCP air rifles using bullets. I have some that were made by Neilson and some I cast with a 4-cavoity NOE mould. Was going to test them at the range today, but it's still quite cool. I'm going to wait for it to warm up a bit more. |
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this is more comfortable |
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lancaster, Thank You! Who do you use to host your images? |
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http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=310949&an=0&page=13#Post310949 ITS NOT SO SIMPLE ANYMORE, you have to login in now because they had problems with paederast in the past who were using this for the devilish business. if you are able to login you will post pics close to realtime |
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PIC Test: EDIT, Did this work? Shows a picture |
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The 210 was to be my deer bullet?? 3000 fps. shed 100 grains in the test can.[point blank] Most shots are under 150 yds, just wonder what would happen at 40? I could leave them alone, but 300 grains is a lot for a deer. Dam gun groups better at higher pressure, what do you do? Look for a better grouping load at lower velocity? Use a smaller gun? Little history: Shot length ways thru a deer with my 7 ga. 1000 grain round ball at 1100 fps. 25-30 yard range.When the smoke cleared the deer was gone! Not hard to track for 40 yds!!!! Ever shoot a deer with a golf ball? That is what it looked like! |
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3000fps is quite the vel. for a large bore deer bullet, Bruce. I might be inclined to slow them down, or extend the range a bit. The bullet itself is not going to frag, though & might be just fine. It's certainly accurate enough. |
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Maybe a silly question but how do you make belt to SAKO 9,3x66 cases ? By the way, this is quite interesting cartridge too... http://www.wildem.de/411Ryan.html |
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Quote: I have talked with Mr. Ryan before, if I remember right, Bertram brass was making his brass. Belting is done with home made taper dies that reduce diameter. Takes two dies to go from .470 to .453" {Rockchucker] Then a final belt die that sets headspacing of the belt. [Arbor press] Then.....a final clean-up on the ole South Bend. |
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http://www.wildem.de/411Ryan.html I had not seen this link before, shows that his brass is 2.660" Also the reamer print on 411Ryan.com show a length of 2.670", so probably trims to 2.650". The longest brass I could find is the Sako, just a bit over 2.6", but it has a thin neck. So I switched over to the Whelen brass. I had to open the neck up .004. My head space gauge is 2.610". .400-.375 Nitro Express is being made by Quality Cartridge. When they get enough orders. $62 for 20 cases. Much better than Bertram wanted $5-6 per case. [years ago] Now to build the original version [pistol] 2.170" into a small rifle. The pistol 14.5" barrel will shoot a 300 at 2150, or a 210 over 2600 fps. So a 20" rifle should shoot a 210 at 2780 fps. |
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That 350gr. Mag Tip looks to be a good all round bullet. Deer, elk, moose, bears, African plains game. |
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Quote: you got it! |
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Quote:Quote: Thank You, Again! |
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From the text in the link provided on the Ryan case. "A belted case with a distinct shoulder makes not much sense though up to the 1980’s belts should indicate superior performance in any caliber and to many minds. Using belts for a non bottleneck case is the most reasonable way to enjoy the benefits of belts." exactly! |
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Quote: I agree! |
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Just made a longer 405B. Started with a 300 Mag. Turned the belt off. Ran it thru the "BOSS"dies, turned the new belt off! Ran I thru the 405B dies......and now have a 2.725". |
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THAT is a lot of reduction, from .513 base to .453". I didn't know it was possible, but your method certainly explains it. |
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Looks like a lot of fun! But I think that I will stick with my 1895 .405 WCF and Simson DR .405 WCF. The 1895 has already taken Cape buff and water buff and lots of smaller stuff, so it does not need more power or a scope. The .405 DR is working its way up the big game ladder: |
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Quote: Love your guns! |
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Made some more test cases out of 300 Mag for the 405B project. Going from a .511 diameter to .453 takes 8 or so steps, but the Federal case looks Great! Just gives another option of brass. But, I need a heavier duty press! The old Rockchucker is a straining. I need to find some plans. Anyway, Latest Update! |
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How’s this project going? |