| Tom_H |
| (.333 member) |
| 22/03/17 07:13 AM |
|
.404 Jeffrey project - looking for opinions!
|
Maybe I shouldn't have added the opinion part but I actually am.
First the background.
I agreed to complete a rifle in .404 for a friend and it is pretty straightforward with the exception of the barrel.
The action is a pre 64 model 70 originally in .300 H&H. The .404 rounds seem to run through the action as if it were made for them. I may attempt some alterations on the box but overall it will be a 3 down magazine.
The questions revolve around integral parts -vs- factory add-ons.
Do I make an integral sling swivel, island site base/forward recoil lug, and front claw mount base on the barrel. Or more importantly is it worth it?
Some of those things are a la carte as if I have an integral island site/lug, the parts towards the breech end just wont be able to fit over it so they would need to be machined, but the option is still open with the sling swivel.
I am aware that all of the parts are available as either saddle style parts (which I would like to avoid) or banded from NECG, etc.
Integral certainly has a number of things going for it but I haven't seen many (even higher end) factory rifles built that way; British guns in particular.
25" #5 contour, with a Holland style banded ramp with night site.
Thoughts honestly considered and any pitfalls that you may know of with the platform itself.
Thanks,
Tom
| Rell |
| (.375 member) |
| 22/03/17 03:09 PM |
|
|
Re: .404 Jeffrey project - looking for opinions!
|
I really dig the integrally machined features. I have heard both sides on if it is really any stronger or if it is less accurate but it come down to coolness.
I saw three of Joe Smithson's rifles at SCI with machined features and I just love the look, clean and elegant.
| Claydog |
| (.375 member) |
| 22/03/17 03:47 PM |
|
Re: .404 Jeffrey project - looking for opinions!
|
I think the integrals look much cleaner. Also can be one less junction that can catch blood or moisture and miss getting wiped out. If I had the choice I would want it that way.
| GABE93 |
| (.275 member) |
| 22/03/17 06:18 PM |
|
Re: .404 Jeffrey project - looking for opinions!
|
Integral fittings are regarded as higher end options by many gun makers and clients.
From my reading over many years i'm not aware of much use of integral fittings by english makers. It seemed more popular with european makers and the old american makers like G&H and Hoffman.
Currently more makers around the world are making barrels with integral fittings. No particular pitfalls but it takes longer and you need enough skill to make good corners where the round barrel surface joins the various parts. Also take your time machining off the excess metal in the various areas. Alternate your initial cuts to avoid too much stress in one spot, that can cause a bit of warping.
There's no rules about when to use integral fittings, go for it if you want to try it. On the other hand if you are reproducing a vintage rifle in a strict manner then perhaps build it like the vintage makers.
I have done a few integral barrel recoil lugs but no integral sights. I have some images but no point posting any unless you have more specific questions.
Regards,
GABE93
| Tom_H |
| (.333 member) |
| 23/03/17 08:45 AM |
|
|
|
Re: .404 Jeffrey project - looking for opinions!
|
Thank you.
I Think I know what I plan on doing with the sight bases.
Does anybody by chance have a pic of what they consider to be a well designed integral swivel?
Thanks
Tom
| Rell |
| (.375 member) |
| 23/03/17 12:48 PM |
|
|
|
Re: .404 Jeffrey project - looking for opinions!
|
| Tom_H |
| (.333 member) |
| 23/03/17 01:21 PM |
|
|
|
Re: .404 Jeffrey project - looking for opinions!
|
Joe Smithson...
Thank you Rell
| Claydog |
| (.375 member) |
| 23/03/17 01:49 PM |
|
Re: .404 Jeffrey project - looking for opinions!
|
The sling eye on the Jeffery (right) is integral. I sue it with the old school sling hooks and they work very well for me. Sorry this is the best picture of it I could find.
| Tom_H |
| (.333 member) |
| 23/03/17 09:34 PM |
|
|
|
Re: .404 Jeffrey project - looking for opinions!
|
Nice brace of rifles there Claydog.
After the last two posts I guess that the swivel issue is solved.
It looks like there will be a second (if not a third) rifle on a standard 98 action as well so I may be asking for a few measurements in the future.
Out of curiosity, what is the other rifle chambered for?
Thanks
Tom
NitroX
|
| (.700 member) |
| 23/03/17 09:50 PM |
|
|
Re: .404 Jeffery project - looking for opinions!
|
Said a little tongue in cheek.
But with the excessive demands that any "new Rigby" be "just like the old ones", as .404 Jefferys were often working rifles for East Africa, for the Parks and Colonial service, should not such a rifle, be a "very plain Jane"? Otherwise it would not be original!Tom H, ignore this. Just having a dig at some.
Go for what you want. Whether fancy, modern, classic, vintage, or plain. Hope the project succeeds for you.
|
NitroX
|
| (.700 member) |
| 23/03/17 09:52 PM |
|
|
|
Re: .404 Jeffery project - looking for opinions!
|
Quote:
The sling eye on the Jeffery (right) is integral. I sue it with the old school sling hooks and they work very well for me. Sorry this is the best picture of it I could find.
Claydog, can I ask, is that the original stock for the Jeffery? Or is it restocked? Looks restocked to me?
| Claydog |
| (.375 member) |
| 23/03/17 10:57 PM |
|
Re: .404 Jeffery project - looking for opinions!
|
As far as I know it is the original. I think it may have been tidied up externally but when you remove the action the internals look from another era. Has no magazine box and the timber there is black and polished.
|
NitroX
|
| (.700 member) |
| 24/03/17 12:38 AM |
|
|
|
Re: .404 Jeffery project - looking for opinions!
|
Thanks mate. I am not an expert at all. The stock just looks well preserved. And has quite a modern shape to it. Dare I say it, a bit like one of these 'horrible' modern Rigby's!!!
Couldn't resist. A pair of very nice rifles lined up there.
| Tom_H |
| (.333 member) |
| 24/03/17 06:54 AM |
|
|
|
Re: .404 Jeffery project - looking for opinions!
|
Nitro, I should send a pic of my .416 Taylor. I picked it up from a gun club member who put together a spare for an Africa trip. Possibly worth the sum of its parts... maybe (if you tossed in the ammo, dies, and mercury recoil reducer that it came with)
I am sure that it would have fitted in well as a working rifle...just as long as it works.
Claydog, still curious about rifle #2.
Tom
| Huvius |
| (.416 member) |
| 24/03/17 08:40 AM |
|
|
Re: .404 Jeffery project - looking for opinions!
|
Claydog, take a real close look at that sling eye on the Jeffery.
I had a rifle once - don't remember which, maybe the Evans or my 333 Jeff that I thought had an integral front sling eye but it was actually soldered into a dovetail in the barrel and filed flush.
I never noticed it until I was taking measurements of it for someone else.
| Claydog |
| (.375 member) |
| 24/03/17 09:45 AM |
|
Re: .404 Jeffery project - looking for opinions!
|
Huvius you are 100% correct. I took some photos this morning to post and noticed as you mentioned though it is not even filed flat. It was probably about time I took a good look at it. Photo below of the sling eye. I will start a new post with some pics of the rifle.
|
NitroX
|
| (.700 member) |
| 24/03/17 05:29 PM |
|
|
|
Re: .404 Jeffery project - looking for opinions!
|
Quote:
Nitro, I should send a pic of my .416 Taylor. I picked it up from a gun club member who put together a spare for an Africa trip. Possibly worth the sum of its parts... maybe (if you tossed in the ammo, dies, and mercury recoil reducer that it came with)
I am sure that it would have fitted in well as a working rifle...just as long as it works.
Claydog, still curious about rifle #2.
Tom
My .404 is a Mauser M03 in a plastic extreme stock, or if I choose an M03 "Alpine" Germanic stock, so I can't talk at all!
They work however and that is what counts for the user, not the collector.
| mickey |
| (.416 member) |
| 07/10/17 06:45 PM |
|
|
Re: .404 Jeffery project - looking for opinions!
|
I just read this post and wondered how you are coming? Just my thoughts for what they are worth but if it was my rifle I would want an integral front base, rear island with integral flat leaf to file in and and integral sling swivel large enough to take the old hooks. An integral recoil lug would not be required, a silver soldered dovetailed one is fine, if the rifle is inletted and bedded properly.
I have a .585 Inyati by Ralf Martini that has two integral recoil lugs, an island rear a front base and an integral sling swivel. The barrel blank started 4 inches in diameter.
There are pictures somewhere on this site.