| Red |
| (.224 member) |
| 07/12/11 05:54 PM |
.244 H&H loads
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Does anyone happen to have recent/up to date load data for the .244 H&H?
I have managed to lay my hands on quite a bit of data that seems to be quite dated and acces to very slow burning powders was limited.
Some of the recent data i have is 'un verified' but in tha ball park with the older data, but still seems to be using faster powders than i would expect and are available?
Any help or info on this one would be much appreciated
Red
| mbogo3 |
| (.275 member) |
| 11/01/12 01:37 AM |
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Re: .244 H&H loads
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You could try reloadersnest.com free data on many common and obscure calibers........Harold
| Red |
| (.224 member) |
| 12/01/12 05:30 PM |
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Re: .244 H&H loads
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Thanks Harold,
I had seen those but was looking for something up to the 115 grain projectiles if anyone had data?
If I can't find any I may have to just stick with the 100 grain projies.
Red
| 500Nitro |
| (.450 member) |
| 12/01/12 05:33 PM |
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Re: .244 H&H loads
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Red
Where are you located in Aus ?
A few people have owned 244's in Australia
and might be able to ask around.
I'll ask a mate when I get hold of him as I am sure he was talking to me last week about one.
IF I get anything I'll come back to you.
| CHAPUISARMES |
| (.416 member) |
| 12/01/12 07:43 PM |
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Re: .244 H&H loads
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Hi Red,
Have you looked on the www.ammoguide.com site, usually very helpful,
Cheers,
Jeff Gray
.
| Red |
| (.224 member) |
| 16/01/12 07:17 AM |
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Re: .244 H&H loads
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Thanks Jeff,
I hadn't seen that site before? but i can't find anything for the .244 on it which is a bit of a bugger, eveything else on there is quite good.
Red
| tophet1 |
| (.400 member) |
| 16/01/12 08:12 AM |
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Re: .244 H&H loads
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Red,
I think you are about to enter new and uncharted territory. Wear safety glasses and have a friend with you (but not too close) who can call 000/911. Good luck.
| 500Nitro |
| (.450 member) |
| 16/01/12 08:33 AM |
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Re: .244 H&H loads
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Red
What powders are you talking about in your first post ?
I'll make a phone call tonight to see if I can get hold of someone who had one to ask if he still has his data.
.
| Tentman |
| (.300 member) |
| 16/01/12 11:14 AM |
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Re: .244 H&H loads
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I'd suggest you ask someone to run it through the "Quickload" interior ballistics programme, I don't have it but lots of folk in the USA seem to.
Cheers
Foster
| DarylS |
| (.700 member) |
| 16/01/12 12:13 PM |
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Re: .244 H&H loads
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Isn't it listed in Ackley's books? The data, if it's there, should provide a starting place, which is where any loading should start.
| tinker |
| (.416 member) |
| 16/01/12 01:45 PM |
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Re: .244 H&H loads
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I'll stay tuned to see how you do.
Should be a ripper.
What is the rifle?
Cheers
Tinker
| Red |
| (.224 member) |
| 16/01/12 02:02 PM |
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Re: .244 H&H loads
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Thanks all for the replies,
Trophet1, that's why I'm on here, i have no wish to end up wearing a bolt in the face or blowing a new gun to bits.
500 Nitro, I'm in SA if you know anyone here that has/had one? I'm thinking of using any of the ADI range of powders as they are readily available to me. I have got the Ackley books and there is data in them up to 100 grain projectiles I think (I'm away for work at the moment so can't go and pull them off the shelf to confirm) but i was hoping to go up to 115 grain.
Ackley lists a few loads for H4831 (again, I'm doing this from memory at the moment so if someone can correct me till i can get home and get my research in front of me please do) which is 'about' equivalent to ADI AR2213sc or AR2217 going by the conversion chart in the back of my ADI book.
My question would be, why did he use that type of powder? is it because that was the slowest powder at the time? or is there another reason that I'm too inexperienced to see?
I would just like to know as there seems to be a number of slower powders on the market now, so would these be more suitable/safer?
I've found some data on the reloaders nest website but again, thats only up to the 100 grain mark, and they are all using powders that are listed in the ackley books?
I'm thinking a 6.5 STW might be a safer compromise as the amount of data available is huge in comparison.
Any info or opinions would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Red
| 500Nitro |
| (.450 member) |
| 16/01/12 02:07 PM |
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Re: .244 H&H loads
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Red
I would say that he used that powder because it was the slowest at the time.
2213sc is a recent thing anyway, taking over from 2213 as you are probably aware.
re 2217, that's what I wanted you to say as we were discussing the use of 2217 a few weeks ago in these large cases.
The ex owners that I can think of were NT and Vic based (and probably Qld as well) since they were the 3 centres of good gun collecting in the past (IMHO !!!).
I'll make a phone call today / tonight and ask.
| Red |
| (.224 member) |
| 16/01/12 02:27 PM |
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Re: .244 H&H loads
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Ok, I was thinking that would probably be the case but thought I should get other peoples opinions too?
I was thinking 2217 would have to be about the fastest powder i would be using, and would probably even consider 2218.
Thanks in advance for trying to chase up any info too, it is much appreciated.
Red
| 500Nitro |
| (.450 member) |
| 16/01/12 02:29 PM |
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Re: .244 H&H loads
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Red
I am not up to speed on 2217 or 2218 but the person I will speak to is very much up to speed on them, as well as having a very good background on the past, even to the extent of pulling Cordite from one caliber to put in another so they could shoot the old guns.
Anyway, we will see what holds.
| VonGruff |
| (.400 member) |
| 16/01/12 03:00 PM |
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Re: .244 H&H loads
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http://www.accuratereloading.com/244hhmag.html
244 HOLLAND & HOLLAND MAGNUM
The following data was developed in a Holland & Holland Best Quality Magazine rifle. It is made by Holland & Holland and based on the Mauser action. The barrel is 24 inches long. I am not sure who actually made the barrel. I know at some time they were getting their barrels from Douglas.
We used Holland & Holland brass and some formed from 300 Weatherby magnum. Case capacity of the Weatherby formed brass was slightly more than the factory brass. In all loads we used the Winchester large rifle Magnum primers. All groups are 3 shots at 100 yards, and all bullets were molly coated.
Lots of other good stuff here on many old and new cartridges. http://www.accuratereloading.com/reload.html
Von Gruff.
| 500Nitro |
| (.450 member) |
| 16/01/12 09:43 PM |
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Re: .244 H&H loads
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Red,
OK, the 2 x 244 H&H's are still in Victoria, one is unlikely to be used by the owner, the other one is - as I was supposed to bring some loaded 244H&H Ammo home with me but the person forgot to give it to me !!!
So that is why we were talking about slow powders.
Anyway, the first I mentioned was you wanted to use 115gn projjies. His response was why, and that is if you can get them !!!
He said 85, 95, 100 and 105 was all he had used and that these would do all that is needed. He used Nosler Partitions.
re powders, I mentioned 2217 and 2218, he said 2218 and 2225 were the optimum powders to use (and not 2217).
(He mentioned in the past, 2214 was very good).
Anyway, that is all so far.
I know both the guys who owns the 2 x 244H&H's, especially the one that is being shot so I will make a call and see what info he can provide.
Hope that helps.
| simonsaorsa |
| (.300 member) |
| 17/01/12 04:40 AM |
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Re: .244 H&H loads
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Red,
I have data published in precision shooting, a US mag a while ago. I'll see if I can find it amongst my stack of stuff in the garage from just a few years ago. Two whole articles on the 244 May take me a while as I'm pretty busy this week with deadlines, but I will get round to it asap.
| simonsaorsa |
| (.300 member) |
| 17/01/12 05:08 AM |
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Re: .244 H&H loads
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Interest piqued, I went and found the articles more easily than expected.
1 the articles were published in June, August and September 2005, author is Stephen Boxford.
2 parts 1 and 2 give a history of the round. part 3 gives his own experience of shooting it in a Winchester model 70 with a 26" Lothar Walther 1 in 10" twist barrel. Seems his favourite powder was Reloder 25. Send me a pm with your email address and I'll see about scanning part 3 and sending it to you.
| simonsaorsa |
| (.300 member) |
| 17/01/12 06:44 AM |
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Re: .244 H&H loads
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Sorry, one other thing, some sources say it does not use a standard 243 bullet but instead a 245. Degol I think make them in Belgium, but they are kind of unique I think. Boxford used standard 243 bullets in his rifle but then I think he was using a 243 calibre barrel. You should take care about using his data if you have a barrel that is not in .243/6mm. You could always try asking Holland & Holland!
| 500Nitro |
| (.450 member) |
| 17/01/12 07:02 AM |
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Re: .244 H&H loads
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I think with ANY of the Old english calibres, you slug the bore before shooting it, EPECIALLY on the 240 Apex, 244H&H, 275 etc (and certain others which are also known to have wide variations).
We had some .243 bullets plated to bring them up to size for the 240.
"You could always try asking Holland & Holland! "
I like that, considering they came out to Australia many years ago to find many of their guns being shot very accurately - to their amazement !!!
I think you'd find more current knowledge in Australia, NZ and the US than the UK, especially to do with reloading.
| Red |
| (.224 member) |
| 17/01/12 07:37 AM |
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Re: .244 H&H loads
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Thanks all for the replies, seems we're on a roll here.
500Nitro, thanks for that, I was thinking 2218 and 2225 would have been better suited to the job. Also this will be a full build from scratch so slugging the bore is not a worry. I am planning to build it on a 6mm/.243 barrel as mentioned by Simonsaorsa in the article he has, thats the reason for wanting to use 115gr projectiles.
I have reamers, forming dies and loading dies sorted and its just a matter of finding the data to get this thing going.
Simonsaorsa, I've been looking for that article for a long time now, I'd heard of it but could never quite get my hands on it so a PM will be on it's way shortly.
Red
| simonsaorsa |
| (.300 member) |
| 17/01/12 09:45 AM |
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Re: .244 H&H loads
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On its way to you, with my compliments. Appreciate a picture of your rifle sometime. Emmacustom rifles have photos of one H & H made for a Mr Pilkington of Pilkington Glass fame on their website.
The nearest connection I have to the 244 is that I have a holiday home quite close to Glen Cassley, where the designer of the 244, David Lloyd, used to stay in the stalking season. I have a bungalow, he had a castle. I guess that is what you need to be able to afford to reload the b*****r!
| 500Nitro |
| (.450 member) |
| 18/01/12 06:27 AM |
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Re: .244 H&H loads
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Red
The guy is away at the moment so can't ask him about loads.
And also, I didn't ask whether the ammo I was to bring back from NT was so he could shoot it or just a different load.
Anyway, will see what I can find out.
| Red |
| (.224 member) |
| 18/01/12 07:10 AM |
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Re: .244 H&H loads
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Thanks a lot for that Simonsaorsa, That's quite a good article and has confirmed a few ideas I was toying with (ie the longer free bore, and case forming)
Hopefully I will be able to replicate the accuracy and velocity Boxford got from his rifle. I'm still thinking I might stick with the 100gn projectiles just to keep on the safe side.
500Nitro, thats ok, it will be a while in the build stages yet so i've got quite a bit of time up my sleeve.
| Caprivi |
| (.375 member) |
| 14/09/12 12:47 PM |
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Re: .244 H&H loads
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Red, If your rifle is a original H&H (or built to there specs) it has a .245" groove diameter.
Here in the States I have heard of a few in use, with Sterling Davenport building a "new" one with a .245" barrel, as the owner had a vast supply of bullets and ammo.
All custom ones I know of use the common .243" groove barrel from various makers. Ross Seyfried probably was the last to do a article on it quite sometime back. He used a .243 barrel and got some rather exciting velocities with the 85gr Barnes. I have/had some info from Colin McKelvie on a rifle he used as well, again some astonding velocities.
To me it (as well as my favorite .240wby) it seemed to be a rifle for a 100gr bullet. That said I really like the 95gr Berger, but close enough.
As for data in the .244 H&H, through my use and a few friends, starting loads where;
72gr H1000
75gr H5010
65gr 7828ssc
65gr RL25
70gr VV570
with 100gr bullets in WW .300 H&H cases and cci-250 primers.
| Red |
| (.224 member) |
| 07/10/12 02:08 PM |
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Re: .244 H&H loads
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Thanks Caprivi,
That has confirmed a few loads I had received from elsewhere. (it's nice when different sources agree!)
The build was put on hold for quite a while, but is back in motion again and picking up speed. So i should have some results to put up in a couple of months if anyone is interested.
Red