| crkennedy1 |
| (.375 member) |
| 27/04/09 10:48 AM |
165, 180, 200 or 220 gr?
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Okay, I've decided that I am going to bring just my .30-06 on my plains game hunt. Here's my question - I will be hunting a variety of game. From as small as duiker and steinbok all the way up to gemsbok and kudu. What grain bullet do you suggest and why? All and any comments/opinions are welcome. Thanks, Christopher
| Ripp |
| (.577 member) |
| 27/04/09 11:24 AM |
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Re: 165, 180, 200 or 220 gr?
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Have used both the 180 and 200gr for game exactly as you described...however it was out of my 300 Ultra-mag...have to say..in that caliber--I preferred the 200's...if you get a chance at an Eland--I would rather have the 200's as well---but, the 180's will do just fine...
IMHO, when it comes to those 2 in an '06 or any caliber for that matter..placement of shot and bullet construction is much more important..that .20grs of lead...
Ripp
| Caprivi |
| (.375 member) |
| 27/04/09 01:03 PM |
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Re: 165, 180, 200 or 220 gr?
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I have come to prefer the 165tsx in the .30'06. Plenty tough bullet at decent velocity, with seemingly much less recoil.
| crkennedy1 |
| (.375 member) |
| 27/04/09 01:06 PM |
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Re: 165, 180, 200 or 220 gr?
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The 165 gr is what I have been shooting, but I'm worried that it may not be enough to put down a kudu.
| Ripp |
| (.577 member) |
| 27/04/09 11:25 PM |
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Re: 165, 180, 200 or 220 gr?
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Quote:
The 165 gr is what I have been shooting, but I'm worried that it may not be enough to put down a kudu.
Kudu are smaller than elk ..I have seen plenty elk taken down with much smaller bullets than a 165gr out of a '06...again, with what I call too small of a bullet shot placement becomes even more critical..as in a .243 caliber rifle--
If you have been shooting 165's and they shoot good--go with them...it will be plenty....
Ripp
| Der_Jaeger |
| (.375 member) |
| 27/04/09 11:57 PM |
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Re: 165, 180, 200 or 220 gr?
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For Elk, my favorite is a 180 grain Barnes-X out of my .300 Wby. I still have three boxes left of that precious, but discontinued, load! I would also use the 180 Nosler Accubond.
| crkennedy1 |
| (.375 member) |
| 28/04/09 02:19 AM |
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Re: 165, 180, 200 or 220 gr?
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The 165 gr that I currently shoot is the Federal Premium Trophy Bonded Bear Claw. I bit pricey, but very accurate. I really thought it may not be enough, but maybe I'll re-think it.
| Ripp |
| (.577 member) |
| 28/04/09 04:37 AM |
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Re: 165, 180, 200 or 220 gr?
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Quote:
I bit pricey, but very accurate. -
And how much are you paying for this hunt, airline tickets, etc???
It is easy to get caught up in all the hype when heading over---but in the end--the game over there is no tougher really than the game anywhere else..just need to place your shots correctly..IMHO...and the 165's will drop everything in its tracks...
Ripp
| Tatume |
| (.400 member) |
| 28/04/09 04:53 AM |
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Re: 165, 180, 200 or 220 gr?
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I've used Nosler Partitions in both 165 and 180 gr on American game, and found both to be excellent. My 30-06 handloads using H4350 give 2800 fps to the 165 gr bullet, and 2700 fps to the 180 gr Partition, both with excellent accuracy. The Nosler Partition bullet in either weight from a good 30-06 rifle will get the job done with aplomb.
| grandveneur |
| (.400 member) |
| 28/04/09 05:57 AM |
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Re: 165, 180, 200 or 220 gr?
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This is a message directly from West Africa. I hunt buffalo's in Burkina Faso. When i see the game, buffalo's or plain game, i prefere bigger caliber's! In this time, i use my 460WM !
| JabaliHunter |
| (.400 member) |
| 28/04/09 07:23 AM |
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Re: 165, 180, 200 or 220 gr?
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I would use a 180 or 200, but if the 165 Barnes is what you know, can shoot accurately and place shots well, then go for it. I've not tried Barnes X but it looks tough and retains weight. The only negative I've heard is losing petals when pushed too fast, but shouldn't be an issue with a .30-06. i'd be happy up to Kudu but would definitely go heavier from there on...
Have a great trip!
Grandveneur - I'm looking forward to a report and photos!
| tophet1 |
| (.400 member) |
| 28/04/09 10:35 AM |
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Re: 165, 180, 200 or 220 gr?
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Kudu are not that hard to kill. The toughest animal you list is the Gemsbok if you shoot a mature bull. The locals use .270's with 130's and .308 with 150's for Kudu without problems.
.30-06 will do fine. Use whatever premium it shoots well. I would use a ballistically efficient premium 165 and know I had a flatter trajectory for the smaller animals you list.
Here's my old Gemsbok bull killed with a 165 Woodleigh from a .308W at 50+ yards.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiD5aoNAfTI
The recovered projectile weighed 157 grains or 95% weight retention. It was found on the far side of the animal with the petals of the expanded projectile clearly 'feelable' under the skin.
EDIT: The 165 TBBC you mentioned in earlier posts would be perfect if you shoot it accurately.
| osix |
| (.224 member) |
| 28/04/09 06:00 PM |
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Re: 165, 180, 200 or 220 gr?
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From my somewhat limited African experience, having shot or seen shot Gemsbok, Kudu, Zebra and Eland.
The 30 06 will do the job, but it wouldn't be my first choice; would far prefer a 338 Win Mag for awkward situations and exits, entry wounds don't bleed enough.
Gemsbok will go a long way if not hit properly, need reliable combination of expansion and deep penetration, I'd use 180 grain A Frames or Northfork.
| crkennedy1 |
| (.375 member) |
| 29/04/09 06:45 AM |
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Re: 165, 180, 200 or 220 gr?
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tophet1, thanks for sharing the youtube video - nice gemsbok.
osix, I was seriously considering bringing my .338 to hunt with, but my .338 rifle is a Browning BAR and from what I understand, that rifle is illegal to bring into South Africa (correct?)
My .30-06 is a Browning A-Bolt, and I know that's legal. If somebody understands this differently, I'd love to hear your opinion, because I'd love to take my BAR - it is a very nice rifle. Otherwise, I'm thinking it will be the .30-06.
I am very confident with the Federal Premium Trophy Bonded in 165 gr. and my shooting skills out to 150 - 200 yards. It's very flat shooting and if it can penitrate like tophet's picture, than I think it may be the ticket... it think.
| tophet1 |
| (.400 member) |
| 29/04/09 09:17 AM |
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Re: 165, 180, 200 or 220 gr?
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No worries. The old bull had to go. He was preventing the younger bulls from breeding but couldn't do the job himelf. He was a cull animal, the farmer was very pleased and I got him cheap.
I leave for my second African Hunt in 5 weeks. Every second day I'm out practiseing.
Buy a heap of that ammo you shoot well, leave the bench and shooting mat at home and get out and practise shooting prone unsupported, sitting and standing leaning against a post or something. The more you do now the better.
| crkennedy1 |
| (.375 member) |
| 29/04/09 10:00 AM |
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Re: 165, 180, 200 or 220 gr?
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Wow 5 weeks - where are you going and what's on the agenda to hunt?
| tophet1 |
| (.400 member) |
| 29/04/09 10:20 AM |
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Re: 165, 180, 200 or 220 gr?
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PM Sent
NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 29/04/09 10:46 AM |
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Re: 165, 180, 200 or 220 gr?
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Quote:
From as small as duiker and steinbok all the way up to gemsbok and kudu. What grain bullet do you suggest and why? All and any comments/opinions are welcome.
Christopher,
The PHs normally recommend a 200 gr bullet. Use one of good construction.
| crkennedy1 |
| (.375 member) |
| 30/04/09 03:03 AM |
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Re: 165, 180, 200 or 220 gr?
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NitroX,
I will check with my PH and see what he recommends, but looking at the variety of Federal bullets currently available (which is my brand preference), it dosen't appear that they offer a premium grade bullet in anything larger than 180 gr. Federal does offer a 200 gr and a 220 gr for the .30-06, but I fear that the lower grade bullet will actually be less effective than the 165 gr or 180 gr premium trophy bonded.
| Ripp |
| (.577 member) |
| 30/04/09 11:42 PM |
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Re: 165, 180, 200 or 220 gr?
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Quote:
NitroX,
I will check with my PH and see what he recommends, but looking at the variety of Federal bullets currently available (which is my brand preference), it dosen't appear that they offer a premium grade bullet in anything larger than 180 gr. Federal does offer a 200 gr and a 220 gr for the .30-06, but I fear that the lower grade bullet will actually be less effective than the 165 gr or 180 gr premium trophy bonded.
FYI..
Just read an article this morning in SportsAfield while having breakfast---where Kevin Robertson, "the magazines African Hunting authority"... a hunter heading to Africa asked if his .308W would work for plains game...Kevin's answer was Yes..he stated he like the 180's better but the 165's would be o.k.....
| 9.3x57 |
| (.450 member) |
| 01/05/09 12:16 AM |
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Re: 165, 180, 200 or 220 gr?
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Quote:
Federal does offer a 200 gr and a 220 gr for the .30-06, but I fear that the lower grade bullet will actually be less effective than the 165 gr or 180 gr premium trophy bonded.
RIPP's citation is interesting.
I like this Robertson fellow.
His recommendations often check out with my testing. For example, this bit. In my media, I have found mere bullet WEIGHT to be a very poor predictor of bullet penetration AND recovered expansion weight and diameter.
Sometimes a light bullet will penetrate more deeply and expand better than a heavier bullet. Sometimes not. Bullet construction is the key.
As NITRO and RIPP intimate here, check with your PH. If he has any time in the field at all, he has opinions, and since you are hunting with him, take his advice. If he doesn't know what to pick...don't hunt with him!
Having said all that, as RIPP said earlier, a well-placed 165 grain bullet from any of the major manufacturers is going to kill a kudu.
One last thing. It makes lots of sense to practice field position shooting before the hunt. Doing so with Premium bullet can be cost preventive. So the use of a similar/same weight cheaper bullet for practice makes good sense. However, do not assume the same weight bullets will print to same POI. Make sure you shoot enough of your hunting bullets to know where they will print at all reasonable ranges.
| crkennedy1 |
| (.375 member) |
| 01/05/09 05:06 AM |
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Re: 165, 180, 200 or 220 gr?
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Good advice. Spoke with my PH - he says the 165 gr will do the job and he likes the Federal Premium trophy bonded too - so I'm in business. I think I'll get some shooting sticks and head out into the wilderness and do some off-handed, simulated safari shooting!
| Ripp |
| (.577 member) |
| 01/05/09 10:39 AM |
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Re: 165, 180, 200 or 220 gr?
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Quote:Quote:
One last thing. It makes lots of sense to practice field position shooting before the hunt. Doing so with Premium bullet can be cost preventive. So the use of a similar/same weight cheaper bullet for practice makes good sense. However, do not assume the same weight bullets will print to same POI. Make sure you shoot enough of your hunting bullets to know where they will print at all reasonable ranges.
9.3
Excellent advice---one of the biggest complaints I hear when talking to PH's is the poor shooting ability....practice, practice, practice...
There are many times you will not have much time to take the shot...so get very used to the firearm...and happy hunting...
Ripp
| EXPRESSBOY |
| (.224 member) |
| 04/05/09 07:48 AM |
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Re: 165, 180, 200 or 220 gr?
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hy friends,
insted of grains i tink is more important put the bullet in the right place !!!
For kudu or zebra I think all 30 are good With a good 180 grain.
I using a 180 Vulkan (norma bullets) for generic use and for long range up to 300 mt using a sierra 180 bt
For precision shot in 30-06 with barrel 1/10" use only 180 or more
bye bye bernard
| ALAN_MCKENZIE |
| (.400 member) |
| 04/05/09 12:57 PM |
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Re: 165, 180, 200 or 220 gr?
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200 grain round nose woodleigh's.
Work well in a 308 as well on everything including buff.
Al
| DuggaBoy |
| (.300 member) |
| 05/05/09 05:51 AM |
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Re: 165, 180, 200 or 220 gr?
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165's or 180's for most everything plains game in the '06.
If I were specifically to go for Giant Eland or Zebra with the '06 I'd like a heavier bullet; then you've got to learn it's trajectory very well for the longer shots and then your back in the same energy category as the lighter bullets.
Grew up only shooting 220's at heavy game, the "Premium" bullets have changed the weight downward and the trajectory flatter with better results .
| crkennedy1 |
| (.375 member) |
| 05/05/09 08:04 AM |
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Re: 165, 180, 200 or 220 gr?
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Agreed, if I were to go for either of those animal I would for sure go up to a heaver bullet. The plan is to go no larger than a Kudu and/or Gemsbok.
| ant458 |
| (.224 member) |
| 19/07/09 02:46 PM |
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Re: 165, 180, 200 or 220 gr?
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i would go with the 220 they are slow but they hit like a train
| Ripp |
| (.577 member) |
| 20/07/09 01:25 AM |
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Re: 165, 180, 200 or 220 gr?
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Quote:
Agreed, if I were to go for either of those animal I would for sure go up to a heaver bullet. The plan is to go no larger than a Kudu and/or Gemsbok.
The ONE thing about Africa...MOST does not go as planned...which is why you must be prepared for anything..
Perfect example is when I see people going hunting in a very remote dangerous game area..but are taking along a 30-06 to be used on the "smaller stuff"...so what happens when you are walking early morning or late afternoon and a pissed of old dugga boy is heading your way, or cow ele with calf...that '06 looks fairly insignificant at that point..which is why I suggest hunting in areas like that, that smallest gun to take is a .375..for the "smaller stuff".. while not being the sharpest knife in the drawer, after almost getting my ass stomped a few times in one hunt it doesn't take much to convince me at this point...
If you are primarily in a plains game area--I still prefer the heavier bullets..shots are typically not that far and the extra foot pounds are a welcome addition..
Ripp
| bigmaxx |
| (.375 member) |
| 21/07/09 01:18 AM |
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Re: 165, 180, 200 or 220 gr?
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Good advice! I agree with this school of thought. I took my Hawkeye African .375 Ruger and shot several common plains game species all the while knowing I had a fair chance at stopping a charge from one of the big guys. The .375 did a great job on everything from impala to kudu and wildebeast. Wildebeast are quite tough. I will never hunt where elephants are present with anything smaller. I kept a couple of solids in the bottom of the magazine as well. Good hunting.
| Kalunga |
| (.333 member) |
| 21/07/09 08:55 AM |
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Re: 165, 180, 200 or 220 gr?
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I agree with Ripp. I would use at least 200 grain bullets, even better would be 220 grainers. Try to get as close as You can and then get closer before You shoot. That`s real hunting for my money. But don`t forget: "Let the animal decide how he`s gonna die !"
Kalunga
| Ripp |
| (.577 member) |
| 21/07/09 10:05 PM |
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Re: 165, 180, 200 or 220 gr?
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Quote:
But don`t forget: "Let the animal decide how he`s gonna die !"
Kalunga
Either you or I have been watching too many Sullivan videos...
Ripp
| Kalunga |
| (.333 member) |
| 22/07/09 12:52 AM |
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Re: 165, 180, 200 or 220 gr?
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Absolutely right, "too many" is the correct term !
Kalunga
| Yochanan |
| (.375 member) |
| 22/07/09 02:25 AM |
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Re: 165, 180, 200 or 220 gr?
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Quote:
Absolutely right, "too many" is the correct term !
Kalunga
3006 with "enough" grains will do it
Let the animals choose...haven't we heard it before 
/Johan
| buckeyeshooter |
| (.275 member) |
| 24/07/09 12:02 PM |
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Re: 165, 180, 200 or 220 gr?
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I use 180's in 30-06.
| Naren |
| (.224 member) |
| 27/07/09 09:40 AM |
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Re: 165, 180, 200 or 220 gr?
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Factory loaded Winchester XP3 - 180 grains. The best for your hunt if you ask me.