| mickey |
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| 13/03/04 03:59 PM |
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When Swords Are Outlawed Only Pirates Will Have S
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http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0
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New law to ban swords
Peter Mickelburough, state politics reporter
09mar04
SWORDS will be outlawed from July under new laws to curb the growing use of the weapons in street brawls.
Police Minister Andre Haermeyer said the ban would help police overcome a culture of young people arming themselves with swords.
"For most people running around the street carrying swords there is absolutely no reason for them to be carrying those weapons," he said yesterday.
From July, anyone found possessing or selling a sword without a permit will face up to six months' jail and fines of up to $12,000.
Existing sword owners must surrender their weapons to police, sell them to a licensed dealer or apply to the Chief Commissioner for specific approval.
Collectors and people with legitimate cultural, religious or military reasons to own swords will be exempted from the ban, but must store them under lock and key and have a burglar alarm.
The sword ban follows a string of recent attacks and a regulatory impact statement undertaken by the State Government last year.
Last week, a 13-year-old boy was arrested and charged after allegedly charging police with a sword near Castlemaine, in central Victoria.
A 21-year-old man had his hand severed by a samurai sword in a confrontation between 40 men in the Fitzroy Gardens a fortnight ago -- the second brawl involving swords in 24 hours.
Huy Huynh, 19, was chased from the Salt nightclub and hacked to death nearby in July 2002 by a mob using samurai swords and machetes.
The new laws will make it illegal to sell swords to anyone who does not have a permit.
Sword sellers will have to keep a register of buyers' details and make it available for police to inspect.
Mr Haermeyer said groups such as highland dancers, historic re-enactment groups, bonafide collectors and people with family heirlooms could apply for an exemption from the licensing services branch of Victoria Police.
"Legitimate sword owners understand the importance of ensuring that their swords do not fall into the wrong hands," he said.
"The vast majority of the community would say, 'Look, there's no place for people just being able to go out there and buy these things and carry them around the street'."
Mr Haermeyer said the exact definition of a sword under the new regulations was still being considered.
He said machetes would remain a controlled weapon, requiring a person to have a legitimate reason for carrying them.
The Government is also looking at bans on some other weapons, such as crossbows, and greater restriction on the sale of prohibited and regulated weapons at weekend markets.
Mr Haermeyer warned that police would be actively hunting for knives and swords after being given new powers and 480 metal detectors late last year, allowing them to search people they reasonably suspected were carrying weapons.
| luv2safari |
| (.400 member) |
| 13/03/04 04:51 PM |
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Good Lord...what next...
I hear that soon sick people won't be allowed to exhale...all those germs, you know...?
Who in the Hell elects these morons?
| mickey |
| (.416 member) |
| 13/03/04 06:06 PM |
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I just wonder how much longer metal tableware will be allowed. Imagine a whole country where everyone uses airline issue plastic forks.
It would save on the energy that it takes to wash the dishes though. 
| iqbal |
| (resigned as a member) |
| 14/03/04 07:04 PM |
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I wonder whether if any of you have seen a person being slain by a sword or machette.I have, and believe me its not a pretty sight.Gun shot or stabbing one can perhaps bear to see, but a beheading or a slash with a sword is food for nightmares.At the risk of offending you and Luv2 i would say that swords should be outlawed,at least carrying of one in public should not be allowed.In this day and age use of medevial weapons such as the sword or machette can be quite traumatic to those who witness its use.
| Matt_Graham |
| (Sponsor) |
| 14/03/04 07:42 PM |
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So close yet soo far away!
NitroX
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| 15/03/04 01:58 AM |
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You mean I can't carry my full sized two handed broadsword around 'concealed' on the street anymore! Damn!
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NitroX
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| 15/03/04 02:03 AM |
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Iqbal
I have to diagree with you. There is next to no incidents with swords in Australia. Maybe in your region where they are still traditionally used it is different.
This is just another example of an oppressive ban happy socialist government without any real idea or strategy on how to reduce crime.
| Matt_Graham |
| (Sponsor) |
| 15/03/04 12:24 PM |
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At least we can still go to the Saturday morning public stabbings!
I shouldn't make a joke of Iqbal's post. The difference in our two societies is great. Please accept my apologies!Talking about Pakistan. Did you hear about the Australian wheat shipment that was rejected last week because it was contaminated with some disease we have never had? I just watched the Landline show this morning and they had a confirmed report that the Pakistani authorities had admitted they did not want to purchase the wheat whenit hit the dock because they didn't realise how good their own season was going to be. So they didnt want to pay for the wheat, the disease was their excuse to turn it away. Makes you wonder about that 'Korma Express' job. I wonder how many other trade problems we will have with the region?
| NONE |
| (.300 member) |
| 15/03/04 02:10 PM |
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iqbal,
Banning of anything for no other reason then political correctness is a bad thing. The same could be said for a baseball bat I am sure its quite traumatic to see someone bashed to death as well so should we ban the bat? The automobile accounts for some of the most traumatic events I have seen. I am also sure being shot is no less traumatic to the victim then any other method of death as death is quite traumatic to the one whom is dead. Quite simply once you open this door it never closes and its a matter of time before it leads to bigger things look at the history. I personal do not trust a bunch of people I already do not turst deciding what is best for me and were that line should stop.
A government official deciding what is good and not good for a person and then coming into his or her home and removing the thing they have decided to be offensive or making that person a criminal for owning it is in no uncertain terms unacceptable in any country. Those who sacrifice a bit of freedom for a bit of safety are destine to have neither.
James F. Nioxn III
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NitroX
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| 15/03/04 03:04 PM |
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It should be taken into account where Iqbal is coming from. Parts of Pakistan are still very tribal where men as part of being an adult male wear or carry a dagger or knife and usually a rifle as well.
Where it is common for people still to bear arms in daily life, it is a short step to using them in daily life too.
A far difference to Australia where an extremely small minority keeps them as decorations, collections or souveneirs and the carrying of arms in day to day life is already illegal.
Hey its funny isn't it that there are ALREADY laws to stop the behaviour the ban is claimed to be against.
| Far_Canel |
| (.224 member) |
| 15/03/04 09:28 PM |
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What a load of crap!
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Good grief what next,banning sharp sticks!!!
This PC BS just keeps getting worse!
Man has been killing each other for thousands of years AND will continue to kill each other for thousands of years.
Guns,knives and swords don't kill,people kill!
Man being the cleaver bugger he/she is will just find the next most convienant way to kill of injure.
Regards,Far Canal IV.
| iqbal |
| (resigned as a member) |
| 16/03/04 02:50 AM |
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Nitrox,according to the new law as posted by Mickey,only people with permits can own or carry a sword.This is also true for other weapons such as firearms,so whats the big fuss about?I was referring to carrying or owning swords etc. illegally as these are weapons that are cheaper and can also be made locally at hardly any cost.Yet they are extremely dangerous.So if the govt.puts some restrictions on their use or carrying them i don't think its usurping the rights of citizens.After all its not banning the weapon.
As far carrying weapons around here it is only in the tribal belt that one can carry weapons without a permit and that to because of personal vendettas and feuds.All other parts of the country you have to get a permit.You will not find anyone,outside of the tribal belt,carrying a sword,only AK 47's and those to legally.Of course there are those who do not respect the law and carry and use weapons they are not supposed to have.
I'm sure you'll agree with me that weapons should be owned and carried by responsible citizens for specific purposes,whether hunting or self defense or whatever and the govt. has the right to lay down certain restrictions to ensure that they do not fall into the wrong hands.
| iqbal |
| (resigned as a member) |
| 16/03/04 03:04 AM |
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Matt,as far as saturday morning public stabbings are concerned you are probably referring to the custom in Saudi Arabia which is the only Islamic country that does this.I don't want to go into the merits and demerits of this custom as that would lead to a lengthy debate.However this sort of thing does not happen here.
Talking about shipments some time back a shipload of sheep was sent to Saudi Arabia which was rejected by the Saudis because the sheep were diseased.The Aussies then decided to offer it to Pakistan,later free of cost,an offer which was refused by the Pakistanis.Would you perhaps surmise that that it was a good year for sheep in Pakistan?
Why do western countries think that their shit will be accepted by third world nations or poorer countries?
| Matt_Graham |
| (Sponsor) |
| 16/03/04 10:12 AM |
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Iqbal
That was the same boatload of sheep that I referred to, actually called the "Cormo Expres". Australia has never had a boatload of sheep rejected - EVER - until then. Australia enjoys the highest disease free status in the world. To call our produce shit is well - pretty silly really! In the end it was cheaper to give the damn sheep away than to bring them home. It seemed to the Australian public some kind of repayment for our participation in the liberation of Afganistan and Iraq. Just as Spain received it's payback last week. I don't know why the Pakistanis didn't want them, perhaps because they already had a black mark on them?
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NitroX
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| 16/03/04 12:35 PM |
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Matt
We will never know the truth of the "Cormo Express". By the time the shipment was settled quite a few of the sheep had indeed died. I doubt they were diseased myself at least initially and the long extended shipment contributed to deaths.
I also feel the initial rejection was purely politically motivated. The other rejections may in part be due to this but also national pride ie not being seen to take something another country has rejected.
I can't remember was the initial country Saudi Arabia? IMO 100% politically motivated.
In any case I don't want to get into politics here. Individuals here don't make policy and hear the "news" or "facts" wth the taint of their public media and its biases. We certainly do in Australia.
| luv2safari |
| (.400 member) |
| 16/03/04 04:40 PM |
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iqbal
I agree with you that carrying them in public is unnecessary, but to outlaw ownership in going a bit too far, in my opinion. And, never any offence taken, my friend.
This move appears to be just one more small snow ball starting to roll down hill that will become something too big to ever stop.
Let's get realy tough on those who use the guns, knives, machetes in crimes...Whatever happened to public executions? They served a purpose.
| iqbal |
| (resigned as a member) |
| 17/03/04 05:06 AM |
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Matt,you haven't got the facts right.The sheep were sent to Saudi Arabia and was rejected by the Saudis on the grounds that they were diseased.Later while on the way back the shipload was offered to Pakistan which also refused the offer.What do you think the political ramifications have been had Pakistan accepted the sheep,which had already been rejected by a friendly Islamic country.The govt. just could not take the risk.Moreover i think it is pretty stupid of you to bring up such topics in this forum and pass such remarks about another country one which you know nothing about.
| Matt_Graham |
| (Sponsor) |
| 17/03/04 02:17 PM |
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I know the facts...
and.. It takes two to tango, friend!
| KWK |
| (.275 member) |
| 19/03/04 05:30 PM |
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I agree with NitroX. There isn't enough trouble with swords to justify any bans. At most, nixing public carry might be understandable, but putting in place nuisance laws regarding how you keep them at home is ridiculous. I've never read of a single sword slaying here in my town, or in Chicago for that matter. This despite the fact you can buy and keep a sword with no license or any other government hassles.
The last murder here I can recall, a guy tossed lighter fluid on his wife and lit her right up. She died after two months of agony. There's no end of easy, nasty ways to kill people.
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 28/03/04 10:11 PM |
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On live sheep trade, Aust "60 minutes" ran one of their usual BS articles where they had a idiot resident greenie claiming the live sheep after sale are still Australia's responsibility in terms of cruelty. And that we should stop the trade if the Kuwati's don't "mend" their ways.
What she alledges is cruel? Cutting a sheep's throat without stunning it first. What does she think a million Australian farmers do with 'ration' meat each month or so.
God help me, she's an idiot.
| mickey |
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| 29/03/04 05:08 AM |
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Hey Nitro
I thought you Aussies got them drunk on Rum before you killed them........Oh wait....that is before Sex.....and it was the Cocky who would get drunk. My mistake.
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 29/03/04 01:22 PM |
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They look better after the first bottle of Bundy.
Hey talking about swords and decapitations
we used to have a fair number of chickens when I was younger and never ate a store bought roast. Off with their heads wth the wood axe. I always wanted a nice sword to do it while they were standing up with a clean sweep. Would a Greenie think that is cruel?
PS it is damned cruel when you get yourself in the back with a too long back sweep or over enthusiastic draw
| mickey |
| (.416 member) |
| 29/03/04 02:59 PM |
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Don't I remember that. My Grandfather, with the Double Bit Ax, and off with their heads and a chase around the barnyard.
Blood squirting everywhere but Chicken and Dumplings for dinner. 
| M82A1Barret50Cal |
| (.275 member) |
| 22/04/04 05:03 PM |
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Ok there are 2 separate conversations here. Firstly I don't think either the Australian or the Pakistani public would have heard the WHOLE story. Secondly this is not the forum to discuss it in. Thirdly I think we are starting to get a bit personal with the debate, keep it clean guys.
On the subject of swords being outlawed. I think that we should have very tight regulations about having them in public but I personally own a number of collectors swords and there is no harm in private ownership. Also where do you draw the line between a knife and a sword, or a piece of metal and a sword. I agree that banning swords will not decrease the number of murders commited, people will always find new ways of killing people.
M82A1
| cooch |
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| 02/05/04 11:15 PM |
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There are two issues here....
The first is that the banning and licencing of personal weapons has been demonstrably futile in this country (and all around the world)... This is a reality which has been demonstrated by historical experience and by quality research. Therefore the current move to ban swords (except by restrictive permit system) is NOT reasonable, and (as most Australian members of this board already know) is a matter of politics rather than a serious attempt to reduce crime.
Incidentally, murder is murder and dead is dead. The appearance of victims of edged-weapon attacks is not a valid reason to impose greater or lesser restrictions on swords... We've had to put up with this level of reasoning for way too long (and it's only out of politeness that I don't give rein to my feelings here..) We're having guns banned because they LOOK dangerous. We're having to put up with legislation based on the premise that people being shot are somehow more dead, or their killing is more dastardly that people killed by other means.
No-one should be surprised that Australian shooters who have had to put up with this level of illogical, knee-jerk ban-it-all regulation-without-reason should be a little bit shirty about yet another example of the same thing.
The second is the issue of live sheep exports. "Scabby Mouth", the disease which supposedly caused the rejection of a shipload of sheep to the Saudis is a species specific (ie, no threat to humans) minor infection of about the same level of seriousness as cold-sores. Its effect on otherwise healthy animals is no more than minor discomfort.
Having to play trade the Saudi way has long been one of the costs of doing business with them. Industry insiders will tell you that when counting sheep off the boat on delivery, when you get to "100" the local agent will state emphatically "95" the extra % uncounted are his little bonus ....... and of course the only way to account for the missing sheep are as "Died enroute"..
So now we have the bloody Animal Libbers accusing the trade of cruelty because of these "casualties", while having to put up with the cost of greasing palms to accomodate the local business practices over there.
It's all the same deal. Bloody politics and self-interest.
As a farmer, I have an interest in putting the other side of the story. Friend Iqbal only knows what he reads in his media, and non-farming Australians only see what's in our own sensationalist equivalent.
Shooters aren't the only ones to suffer.
Regards to you all....... (a very grumpy) Cooch
| cooch |
| (.300 member) |
| 24/05/04 09:13 PM |
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http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,9644218%255E2862,00.html
Swords have been a controlled weapon in Vic for years.
It is illegal to carry them in public without a good excuse.
It's illegal to brandish them or threaten people with them.
It's illegal to attack police cars with them.
So if all these laws are in place, how come the VicPol shot a man yesterday for attacking the patrol car they were driving with two of the things?
How many laws was this idiot prepared to break?
Who is prepared to argue that if there had been just one more law, he wouldn't have been prepared to break that one too?
Cooch
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NitroX
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| 24/05/04 11:40 PM |
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I'm sure this will result in increased emphasis to ban these terrible "modern" weapons of such devastating destructive power.
After all he broke a police cars rear window with a sword and got shot in the chest by a shotgun killing him.
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NitroX
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| 27/05/04 02:43 AM |
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I'm OK. I've found a new 'knife' for slicing Barossa Fritz
Heading off to look for some 'Fritz'.
