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lancaster, what you mean as "steal" ? (=klauen auf deutsch)

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of course "klauen"

Edit(h) was here



its time to start a little research about this lovely early double guns

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Lancaster,

We owe you a debt of gratitude for the interesting topics you bring to this forum and your willingness to share your knowledge and experience.

Thanks,
Curl

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my thank s for your interest and for your help
please make me aware of any Dreyse hunting gun you see because it will be one piece more of the puzzle.

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1. Thanks for sparking our interest in these fascinating old arms.

2. Only if you make us aware also Loving this thread and keen for more. Keep posting gold, sir.

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single shot rifle in 10,5x74R (? maybe a typo and its a 10,5x47R ) with octagonal barrel
serial number 302 what dont fit into my theory that all hunting guns are in one serial number range
it have crown + "V" proof what puts it into the early 1890s. I think it was made in this years when Dreyse was in decline and they use everything laying around.


http://www.hermann-historica-archiv.de/

it looks like the action of a Baden customs needle fire rifle made after the war of 1870/71 and still in use up to 1900 when it was replaced by Haenel made M 88 carbines




possible Dreyse was using old parts for this hunting rifle, rare and interesting single shot I wish to have it


.
.
no, think I have find it
here is a similar experimental dreyse rifle in 11,2x60R
smooth barrel with roatationskammer made in 1874/75 when first problems with the Mauser 71 occur





http://www.hermann-historica-archiv.de/
so the hunting rifle above may be build with a receiver left over from this trials but its clear the Baden customs rifle was the starting point

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This is the bolt action design Franz von Dreyse submitted for adoption as the new military rifle of the German Army in 1871. As we all know, the Mauser M71 design was chosen instead.

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15A DREYSE DBL. COMBINATION RIFLE SHOTGUN, from the 1800 s, very early gun & probably one of the first self contained cartridge rifles made, 11 MM & 16 ga., 26 bbls., light silver engraving inlays on the rear part of the bbl. Also on the bottom of the lever that slides side ways to break open gun, silver fox inlay on this lever, horn trigger guard, 2 triggers, checkered cheek rest stock with original metal buttplate, sling swivels, top of rib marked F.V. Dreyse Sommerda , adjustable rear sight, silver bead front sight, good wood with old crack near wrist has been repaired, checkering is nice & sharp, 95% blue starting to turn brown, no pitting, real nice condition, VG to exc. bores, loads by pulling rearward on the lever underneath the forend, bbl. slides forward & then slides to the right exposing chambers. $2500

http://www.goergensgunshop.com/index.php?p=1_9

a very unusual long metal forend on this combination gun, think it must be for metallic cartridges/paper hulls

will try to get more pics and the serial number

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get some pics




caliber marking completly gone or was never there





number 15247



the new to me long steel forend tip with the well known fox on the lever

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Not a Dreyse.. But nice!

http://jamesdjulia.com/item/2298-369/

NUSUAL, HIGH QUALITY H.G. REIF (LEIPZIG) BOXLOCK NEEDLE FIRE MUZZLELOADING SHOTGUN.
SN NSN. Cal. 16 ga. .675 Bore diameter. This fine German creation appears to be based on Abraham Adolph Moser’s early muzzleloading needle fire patent, and has 31″ fine etched Damascus bbls with makers name “H. G. Reif in Leipzig” gold inlaid on raised, flat rib within silver inlaid scroll terminated device. There are inlaid gold bands and arabesque scroll at breech ends. The action consists of a pivoting lever with rotating silver knob mounted in forend, which when swung to the rear retracts long needle firing pins and cocks boxlock type internal hammers mounted above trigger plate. Action has pin type cocking indicators which protrude through breech iron, and studs with notches, one on trigger plate finial, the other in forend, which hold cocking lever in either front or rear position. In forward position mechanism can be fired. In rear position it is “safe”. This gun was made to fire a self contained combustible cartridge, similar to the Dreyse with priming behind projectile. Metal work is embellished with exceptionally fine engraving consisting of gold inlay accented shaded scroll on breech section with hound and hare chase scene on rib extension. Breech iron with more gold inlaid scroll has hunting scene of Jaeger with hound pursuing a fox. A hunting dog is gold inlaid on trigger guard, which has silver inlay of bushes in foreground. There are other gold accents on scrolled trigger guard, operating lever, and trigger plate finial. Steel trigger guard terminates in scroll carved ebony grip. Fine stump figured and lightly marbled European walnut stock features an ebony buttplate with molded sides, right hand cheekpiece, sliding patchbox, and sling button. It is embellished with excellent Germanic carving of acanthus leaves and flowers shaded by checkering at grip and with a greenman/ lion peering from each side panel. A full relief carving of hunting dog and various game is behind cheekpiece framed by acanthus scroll. Forend terminates in stylized wolf’s head with ebony and mother-of-pearl eyes. A brass headed ramrod is held by two plain pipes on bbl, one mounted with broad sling loop. CONDITION: Fine. Metal parts retain an overall brown to gray patina. Stock retains nearly all of its orig varnish finish with numerous minor marks and scratches. There is a small crack in left side panel. Carving shows light wear at grip, but is excellent overall. Cocking pivot base washer is an old replacement, and is loose. An exceptionally interesting German transitional gun of very fine quality, worthy of further study. 4-51429 MGM89 (3,000-5,000) – Lot 2298

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a great example

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thats realy unigue chapman, do you know when the british patent was given?

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In this advertisment Dreyse offers "Pürschbüchsen in drei Größen/ Stalking rifles in three sices" 1886. So maybe these are the anounced ones.

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imho, could be no other action then this we talking about...
so I was right with my theory about a short, intermediate and long action for the patent rifle

no, dont look for the german patent but must be easy to find if Schmidt is right in his book with the "23. Februar 1874" for the patent action and the "28. august 1875" for the rifling insert or "Rotationsstück". the idea of a short rifled part to convert smoothbore muskets was old than and coming from his father. I understand that this patent was for an exchangable insert what in the end means that sporting guns with "Rotationsstück" were made after august 1875.

btw cwilson, dont forget your beautyful double rifle

when we talking again about the double guns there is an interesting pinfire in auction in denmark just now http://www.lauritz.com/de/auktion/jagtge...asmus/i3635263/

its the first pinfire double I have seen with barrel swing out to like a dreyse.
I would set it in the time before 1864

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Thats an little point that makes we wonder- you find easy the Patent for the "Rotationsstück", but not the patent for the earlier action.

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I am not sure how to cock/uncock the triggers.. I see no other way than to dry-fire the gun. I think the gun cocks both triggers when the action is opened and closed.

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Have pics of a double rifle needle fire for you, Lancaster. Have to wait until next week though, sorry!

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the DR in 11,15x60R Mauser on the modified action we had seen here before is now for sale

UNUSUAL F. V. DREYSE DOUBLE RIFLE WITH CARTRIDGES.

SN 34230. Cal. 11mm Mauser. 25-3/4″ Bbls are gold inlaid “F. V. DREYSE SOMMERDA” on silver wire inlaid bordered area on full length matted rib. One standing, one folding leaf rear sight is dovetailed through rib, as is a silver bead front sight. Bottoms of bbls are stamped with German imperial black powder proofs and SN. Unusual action with in-line coil spring strikers, a holdover from needle fire design, is combined with a long steel forward pivoting underlever similar to that found on Collath guns. Moving lever to the left and back cams bbl set forward away from breech discs, and then pivots them to the right side, at the same time cocking action. Gun automatically closes when lever is returned to forward position. “Cal: 11 mm” is engraved on water table and exposed when action is open. Firing pin housing, trigger plate, and other metal parts are engraved with exceptionally well cut, various sized open shaded scroll. There is more scroll silver wire inlay on rib extension. Both triggers are set. Trigger guard is of horn. Nicely fiddle figured European walnut stock measures 14-1/4″ over engraved steel buttplate with trap, which covers space for three cartridges. Stock has small right hand cheekpiece and point pattern checkering with mullered borders at grip, as well as checkered panels that extend along toe line, and around sling loop matching that on bottom of bbls. Drop at heel: approx 2-3/4″, drop at comb: approx 1-5/8″. Weight: 6 lbs 15 oz. LOP: 14-1/4″. Also included are 35 custom cartridges and 5 empty brass in Winchester Western boxes marked “11 MM Mauser 387 GRS”. CONDITION: Good, as partially refinished. Bbls retain a considerable amount of what appears to be their orig blue, with considerable light frosting and thinning overall. All other metal parts are cleaned to coin finish. Stock retains nearly all of a hand rubbed oil finish over light marks, checkering cleaned up. Bores are very fine, strong rifling throughout, dark in grooves at breech ends. Action works smoothly. Triggers set. Older custom cartridges are slightly tarnished. A really neat lightweight rifle. 4-54053 (3,000-5,000)









http://jamesdjulia.com/item/2353-373/

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