(.333 member)

11/08/13 06:55 AM

Another No.1, but what Calibre?

Hello all,

About 12 months ago I was fortunate enough to obtain another Ruger No.1 action in really good condition.

As I currently have No.1’s in 222Rem, 7x57, 375H&H, 450NE and 500NE, my quandary is what caliber do I build this one in?

I like casting and shooting lead bullets, so should I build something like a 358 Winchester or a 45/70?

I have always liked the idea of a 338/06, even before it became a factory cartridge, but what will it do that my 375H&H won’t.

Or, having recently gained access to a magnificent Fallow Deer hunting property where some longer range shots could be called for, perhaps building something like a 300H&H Magnum may be in order (although I am quite confident out to 400 odd yards with my 7x57)

I like the classic nitro express caliber’s too. Maybe I should build a nice “little” 400/350

So Ladies and Gentlemen, if you were in this position, what caliber would you choose, and why?

Let your imaginations run free, don't hold back

Best
ALEX

(.333 member)

11/08/13 07:32 AM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

Alex; Sorry I can't help you there, but after owning 7 #1's in various calibers at the same time. And having sold them all. (the 7x57 was the last to go) I just recently purchased a #1 in 9.3X74R And am so far very happy with it. Al

(.333 member)

11/08/13 10:25 AM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

318 WR

(.224 member)

11/08/13 12:33 PM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

35 Whelen

(.333 member)

11/08/13 02:15 PM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

Thanks for the suggestions gentlemen, please keep the posts comming

BUT,,,, why do you suggest the calibre you have choosen? That is very interesting as well.

Best
ALEX

(.700 member)

11/08/13 03:06 PM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

For easy accuracy with cast bullets, there is hardly a better choice than a .45/70, or perhaps a .45 2.4" (.45/90)

With already having the .450 Nitro, you really don't need a high powered .458, ie; case longer than 2.1" - considering the .450 Nitro should shoot cast almost as well as a .45/70 - however the .358 Winchester has considerable merit for the lead bullets.

You could make a plinking,. cast bullet rifle as I did, using a shortened .45/70 case, ie: 1.9" for what amounts to a .45/60 Winchester, however using any bullet weight from 260gr. to 525gr. Mine, using a GM 18" bl. in a Sharps M74 action (re-shaped M68) is VERY accurate with both cast 506gr. and 525gr. as well as jacketed 405's @ 1,860fps. Of course in a strong action the 350 Speer could be pushed easily to 2,200fps if you wanted to, in that short .45 case.

So - my choice would be a 'held-back .45/70 reamer or a .358.

That 280gr. RN Lyman bullet is calling me in this venture, or one of the other makers of heavy bullets in that calibre. It would be a fun gun to shot with go-pow loads and with jacketed 200's or 225gr. Sierras, a terrific pig or Sambar rifle for out to 300yards or so.

(.400 member)

11/08/13 03:21 PM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

I have the same gap in my armoury. Between 7x57 and 9.3x62

Try .318WR or .333 Jeffery Flanged.

(.375 member)

11/08/13 03:43 PM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

You say you "like casting and shooting lead bullets". So, if you want something to cast for, I would like to suggest the .400H&H. It uses the same bullets that the .405 Winchester and .450-400 use. It achieves good velocity without violent recoil. And you can run everything through it from Woodleigh solids to gas checked lead, to paper-patched. It is easy to load for and works well with just about anything one can stuff into it. Additionally, you can fire-form brass from .300H&H. It is a fantastic round.

Left: 300H&H, 375H&H, 400H&H with 300gr and 400gr bullets and a 430gr paper-patched lead.
Right: Factory loaded 400H&H and a case fire-formed from .300H&H.

.

(.416 member)

11/08/13 05:11 PM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

ALEX,
you are in a right royal bind!
However if I was to choose for a "African plains' rifle then perhaps .308 Norma Magnum?
This is a step up from the classic calibre of the 7x57mm but less than Group 1 of the .375H&H.
Different from all the .300 Winchesters / Wetherbys etc, better to have something different as your list is not the common types (.222 Rem for starters!)
There are still plenty of components for casting & reloading either for reduced loads or full throttle loads in .30 cal range.
But.....
If you chose say a .45/70, this could be used for the normal black powder cartridge BGR event.
As this uses the same projectiles as the .450NE, casting is then an easier option as you already (may)have(most probably) moulds for the .450 - or you could double up this way for both if you don't!
I use my .500NE for both group 3 & BP express events in BGR this way - but cast PP's only for the BP event.
Either way its a tough call for you, but it's your decision as to what you will use it for/on.
A tradesman always uses the 'right' tool for the job, yes sometimes the only one available that you have may be a little too big or too small for that specific need; but is there anything wrong with building up the 'toolbox'? I very much doubt one bloke (or lady) here would argue against that if being in you predicament!
Lucky bugger
93x64mm

(.416 member)

11/08/13 05:58 PM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

Alex I am a devotee of the 358 calibre so would sugest, in keeping with tradtion, a 350Rigby. It will handle any game in Aust with the right bullet.

If that doesn't float your boat and you want something that can thump hard in close or way out then go the 416 Rigby. Trailboss is good in the 416 with cast bullets as is AR2206H.

(.375 member)

11/08/13 06:33 PM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

Since you already got lots of calibres to cast for (7x57, 375H&H, 450NE and 500NE) I would suggest 308 Norma magnum or 338 Blaser magnum - for long the loonger shots.

(.333 member)

11/08/13 11:01 PM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

What's wrong with good ol' .303?
Doug

(.300 member)

11/08/13 11:14 PM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

Something with a bit more reach would fit in the line up as Yochanan suggests - a .300 Weatherby / .300 H&H perhaps, I have a #1 in a Weatherby and like it. FWIW --- John

(.400 member)

11/08/13 11:49 PM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

I do love the look of that .333 Jeffrey !

Administrator

(.700 member)

12/08/13 12:30 AM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

Quote:

Or, having recently gained access to a magnificent Fallow Deer hunting property where some longer range shots could be called for, perhaps building something like a 300H&H Magnum may be in order (although I am quite confident out to 400 odd yards with my 7x57)

I like the classic nitro express caliber’s too. Maybe I should build a nice “little” 400/350

.300 H&H to match your .375.

Nice long barrels to get the maximum out of the cartridge.

I always like the medium and bigger bore NE's in a good single shot too.

(.400 member)

12/08/13 12:59 AM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

My suggestion would be the 7X65R Brenneke, or should you like a little greater performance, the 7X75R SE vom Hofe.

Using a No. 1, you would not be limited to the loads recommended for break action guns, such as double rifles and drillings, so you could use the hotter loads recommended for the 7X64 in the 7X65R, and safely exceeed the lower pressure loads recommended for the 7X75R. A 26" barrel to maximize the effect of a rather low expansion ratio would not be a handicap in a single shot.

In both cases, the range limitations of your 7X57 would be extended appreciably, and you would not have to deal with the increased recoil of a .30 caliber or larger Magnum cartridge. Even though the Ruger rimless extractor works reliably, I always prefer a rimmed cartridge in a single shot, if one is available.

(.416 member)

12/08/13 01:19 AM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

I agree that the 7X65R is a logical choice for long shots at Fallow Deer but you already have a 7mm rifle. Could open it up to .30cal and have something similar to a 30 Super or 30'06 flanged.
The 400/350 Rigby No.2 is appealing too.

(.375 member)

12/08/13 01:34 AM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

Or... a .257 Weatherby to fill the gap between .222 and 7mm

(.400 member)

12/08/13 07:22 AM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

How about Herman Goerings favorite round 8x75RS. Brass is available from Bertam and dies are available from Simplex. An interesting cartridge which fills the gap. It is the perfect stalking rifle calibre.

(.400 member)

12/08/13 07:32 AM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

Quote:

What's wrong with good ol' .303?
Doug

I had the same thought after posting ...

(.375 member)

12/08/13 08:41 AM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

I would have to agree, 303 would be my choice. Can't get more classic.

(.450 member)

12/08/13 04:40 PM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

.358 Norma mag,it really is an undervalued calibre..Load it from .180`s for as flat as can be or .250s to rival the 375H+H.It is a hammer!

(.416 member)

12/08/13 07:56 PM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

Quote:

I would have to agree, 303 would be my choice. Can't get more classic.

To true.

Also thought of the 8X68s for reaching out there.

(.275 member)

12/08/13 08:11 PM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

Realistically I would say the good old 300 H&H Flanged would fit the gap.
You can match the velocities of the 30-06 and use it for all deer sized game, hogs etc.
And it fits the 220 gr bullet nicely.

It is my pet caliber for single shots.

CZ

(.333 member)

13/08/13 07:23 AM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

Thank you for all, some excellent cartridges and ideas there and plenty of food for thought. Your suggestions are much appreciated.

I guess I don't really need another rifle for cast bullets, my 375H&H is a great shooter with 265 grain FNGC's at 1575fps, and so are both the 450 and 500 (and mild too),shooting cast bullets (480 grain RNGC in the 450 & 515 grain FNPB in the 500) at around 1700 fps.

CZ, interesting you should mention the 300H&H Flanged Magnum, I have been thinking more and more along the same sort of lines, and I actually have a brand new Dave Manson 300H&H Flanged finisher reamer in the drawer too. And there’s nothing wrong with the belted version either for that matter (Nitrox), both classic cartridges and very useful....

I like the 7x65 and the 358 Norma but they are quite close to what I already have. Quite fond of the idea of a 303 as well, wonderful old cartridge but in the field over here it won’t really be much different than my 7x57.

The 257 Weatherby sounds like fun, although I’ve never been one for speed, the shell does have a good following. I have a friend here who swears by it, and from my limited observation, it certainly zaps Fallow Deer.

Isn’t this fun!

Really interesting and enjoyable to hear other peoples thoughts.

Any more??

Best
ALEX

(.300 member)

13/08/13 08:14 AM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

I have a #1 in .400 Jeffery, another great old rimmed cartridge. I like it because it packs a decent punch in a lighter and lower recoiling package than my double in 470 NE.

It's another all 'rounder you can use on say elk, moose or heavier plains game but not feel undergunned if something bigger and/or badder shows up.

Bullet availability isn't bad either, because if you want to use something lighter than the tried and true 400 gr loads, as Grenadier has pointed out you can go down to 300 to 350 gr tips designed for the .405 WIN. And Hornady now produces relatively cheap factory ammo.

If you want something with a little more oomph, I have always thought a single shot in .500/.416 NE would be pretty cool, too. A little flatter shooting than the .450/.400 3 inch.

Either of these calibers would fill "the gap" between your .375 and .450NE.

As you may know though from having your .500 NE built, not all numero uno actions are suitable for the biggest bore chamberings, if you should choose to go that direction again. If your frame started out life as something like a .458 Lott or .416 Rigby with a heavy contour barrel you could build up to a .577 NE if you want to go crazy and have a dedicated elephant gun.

All that being said I still kinda agree with Daryl S. I hear where you're coming from, downloading the .450 NE, but everybody should have at least one .45-70 in the vault. In a No.1 you can get maximum versatilty out of that old war horse of a cartridge.

Regardless, it's great hot stove league stuff just talking about all the potential choices. All the best.

(.375 member)

13/08/13 11:11 AM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

Quote:

CZ, interesting you should mention the 300H&H Flanged Magnum, I have been thinking more and more along the same sort of lines.......Quite fond of the idea of a 303 as well........The 257 Weatherby sounds like fun....

Alex - Now you know the answer. You need THREE more No.1 rifles.

(.333 member)

14/08/13 06:06 AM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

Quote:

Quote:
CZ, interesting you should mention the 300H&H Flanged Magnum, I have been thinking more and more along the same sort of lines.......Quite fond of the idea of a 303 as well........The 257 Weatherby sounds like fun....

Quote:

Alex - Now you know the answer. You need THREE more No.1 rifles.

Grenadier, now your talking, hadn't thought of that

Best
ALEX

(.400 member)

14/08/13 07:01 AM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

A 585 Hubel

(.375 member)

14/08/13 08:44 AM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

What about a real oddball? 356 Winchester. I have two and it's my all time favorite round. A factory Winchester model 94 Big Bore and a custom marlin with an octagonal barrel. They smack white tails and black bears with authority using 260gr gas checked cast bullets.

I have a little Ruger #3 in the back of the safe in 375 Winchester that shoots 4 inch groups. It's always been on my list to re barrel to 356Win.

Think about it, if you beat me to it you might have the only 356Win #1 ever built!

(.400 member)

14/08/13 09:58 AM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

My vote is for the 375 Flanged Nitro Express (2 1/2").
Classic round for a single shot.
Plenty of punch without the recoil of the 375 H&H magnum.
By the way, I love my #1 in 303 British but you have that slot well covered with the 7x57.
Good luck making your choice. Let us know how it turns out.

(.300 member)

14/08/13 10:02 AM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

Quote:

What about a real oddball? 356 Winchester...

While we are talking oddball medium bores, how about a .348 WIN? Another great rimmed cartridge and brush caliber that you could load to authoritative levels in a #1.

(.400 member)

15/08/13 07:59 AM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

3rd post.... 8x72R. Lots of moulds available.

(.450 member)

15/08/13 08:03 AM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

Quote:

3rd post.... 8x72R. Lots of moulds available.

Wouldn't you go 8 x 74R as brass is more readily available ?

(.275 member)

15/08/13 10:17 PM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

Quote:

My vote is for the 375 Flanged Nitro Express (2 1/2").
Classic round for a single shot.
Plenty of punch without the recoil of the 375 H&H magnum.
...

The same can be said about 400/350 Rigby which is easier to obtain than the 375 (2 1/2") Nitro Express.

CZ

(.400 member)

16/08/13 12:22 AM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

Bretram Brass from Australia makes both the 375 Flanged Nitro Express (2 1/2") and 400/350 Rigby cases.
Since Alex is in Australia I would believe that both would be available to him.
In the US, both cost the same.

(.700 member)

16/08/13 02:15 AM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

If no .338/06IMP due to being too similar to a .375H&H, then most of the .375 flanged ctgs. must are too similar to the H&H as well.

That bring us back to a round that would be fun to shoot, of lower power than the H&H to be notable Hmmmmmm The suggestions for a .375 Winchester which (in my own Big Bore M94) makes quite excellent use of .375 Win, or .30/30 brass blown out, can drive 300gr.cast or jacketed to a good 1,650fps or if wanting more speed, a 220gr. FN Hornady to 2,200fps. It would make a fun pig/deer gun and in the similar power range as the .358/.356, but with a bit less recoil. I didn't get around to shooting any deer with mine, but did collect 2 moose with it, using those 220gr. FN's running 1,940fps driven by 42.0gr. H335 - a low pressure, but VERY accurate load(1 1/2MOA 100yds.) - obviously having sufficient "power" for 'up to' 800 to 900 pound ungulates.

So many choices, so few actions!

(.275 member)

21/08/13 09:09 PM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

Alex

You need another medium bore no less, to build a nice light stalking rifle. A single shot stalking rifle needs a long slender cartridge.

That means todays modern classic the 9.3x74R. The heavy bullets will take any deer you want in the thick stuff and the light bullets can be loaded for long shots. but you already have your little double in this caliber so that means the classic 400/350 Rigby which has been mentioned a few times already. 310gr bullet for heavy work and 225gr bullet for the open. This gets my vote but may be too close to what you already have.

The Holland 30 super flanged would be ideal.

But why not try something different.

375/303 Westley Richards
Factory loads
200gr bullet @ 2726 fps
215gr bullet @ 2500 fps

I believe it is similar to the 375 FL NE 2"1/2 case necked down to .303 with a smaller and thinner rim. You can load lighter bullets. It nestles nicely in between your other calibers. The only issue may be brass availability in which case you could opt for an 8x65R which is a similar case and performance except it's not a NE so it's not as sexy :-)

Cheers
Rhodes

(.275 member)

22/08/13 05:13 AM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

...I believe it is similar to the 375 FL NE 2"1/2 case necked down to .303 with a smaller and thinner rim. You can load lighter bullets. It nestles nicely in between your other calibers. The only issue may be brass availability in which case you could opt for an 8x65R which is a similar case and performance except it's not a NE so it's not as sexy :-)

Cheers
Rhodes

Rhodes, the 8x65RS is for the European hunter a good alternative to 300 H&H Flanged.
Don't know why it isn't more popular...
No matter what I would like to have them all - 7x75 R, 300 H&H F, 8x65 RS, 400/350 Rigby and the 375 H&H Flanged...

(.400 member)

22/08/13 09:25 AM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

Go out on a limb, assuming you still have the .458 sprinter barrels, I've been dreaming of a .577/450 MH on a No.1.

With your skill you could do sights out to whatever distance and the build should be a snap for you. And when you get bored of it you can send it up here =D

Could be loaded pretty wild too if one wished..

(.416 member)

22/08/13 09:39 AM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

I don't know...
A No.1 in 500/450No.1 Express in the classic English sporter style
would be pretty sweet.
I don't know what a good smokeless load would be
but my 1869 with 85grs of black and a 460gr cast bullet
is quite accurate and a pleasure to shoot.
In fact, I have a Metford rifled barrel and an 1881 action just
begging to become such a rifle.

(.400 member)

22/08/13 10:16 AM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

Pics Huvius!

As for the .375 2 1/2" down to .303 WR thing, could the .405 WCF be substituted for easier brass/thicker rim (if desired?)

(.416 member)

22/08/13 11:17 AM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

Quote:

Pics Huvius!quote]

Will have to get some pics of the 1869 from my brother, but I do have a couple of me shooting the Field 577/500No.2.
Pure Joy!

(.375 member)

22/08/13 12:34 PM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

Still 303

(.275 member)

22/08/13 01:40 PM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

400/350 rigby or 40/50 straight Sharps Both are cute little buggers.

(.275 member)

22/08/13 06:58 PM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

CZ, I like the way you think ;-)

Ash, drawings from Quickload show the 405win brass could be used if you turned the rim down and gave the case a trim. Reamers for most of the old NE cartridges are available.

cheers
Rhodes

(.700 member)

23/08/13 12:18 AM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

That's an idea, but for me, a .40/50 Bottle Necked Sharps would be fun for plinking and pigs. - Or 40/70? There is a modernized .40/70 that uses necked down .45/70 cases with a little more capacity than the .40/60 using the .45/70case.

(.333 member)

29/08/13 09:16 PM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

Hello Alex,

you stated a nice caliber it in your first mail: 400/350 Rigby Nitro Express

advantages:
- rimmed cartridge and low pressure for easy extraction
- bullets for game available in an adequate selection for near all applications
- use of handgun bullets possible for target practice and varminting :-)
- cases are available from bertram or can be made with a little (more?) effort from 9,3x74R
- gentle recoil
- more than 100 years old (if I remind correctly)

I have an old Rigby Mauser in this caliber and I consider the cartridge as a good one!

best regards
Rolf

(.275 member)

07/09/13 05:37 AM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

Quote:

You say you "like casting and shooting lead bullets". So, if you want something to cast for, I would like to suggest the .400H&H. It uses the same bullets that the .405 Winchester and .450-400 use. It achieves good velocity without violent recoil. And you can run everything through it from Woodleigh solids to gas checked lead, to paper-patched. It is easy to load for and works well with just about anything one can stuff into it. Additionally, you can fire-form brass from .300H&H. It is a fantastic round.

Left: 300H&H, 375H&H, 400H&H with 300gr and 400gr bullets and a 430gr paper-patched lead.
Right: Factory loaded 400H&H and a case fire-formed from .300H&H.
.

Grenadier, I agree the 400 H&H is a fine round but as far as I am informed it uses bullets with .411 diameter unlike the 450/400 which uses standardly the .410 bullets.

CZ

(.375 member)

07/09/13 07:09 AM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

Huvius,

Are you guys shooting an outhouse?

I'm not sure that's enough gun to stop one of those?

(.224 member)

08/09/13 11:21 PM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

Quote:

Quote:

Or, having recently gained access to a magnificent Fallow Deer hunting property where some longer range shots could be called for, perhaps building something like a 300H&H Magnum may be in order (although I am quite confident out to 400 odd yards with my 7x57)

I like the classic nitro express caliber’s too. Maybe I should build a nice “little” 400/350

.300 H&H to match your .375.

Nice long barrels to get the maximum out of the cartridge.

I always like the medium and bigger bore NE's in a good single shot too.

+1

I have 5 #1s and a #3 ranging from the .22 Hornet to the .375 H&H, but my all around favorite is the .300H&H. It does fit right in between the 7x57 and the .375.

I made my first trip to Africa just this year and the .300 H&H is the rifle that went with me.

(.416 member)

08/09/13 11:57 PM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

Sound reasoning...
Welcome to Notro Express 6thtexas!
Can you share photos of your African hunt with the 300H&H?

(.224 member)

14/09/13 12:15 AM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

I'll try, but I ain't very adept at posting pictures

(.224 member)

14/09/13 07:39 AM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

Shot the kudu right at sundown

I could barely make out the crosshairs on the bushbuck it was so close to dark when I shot him.

I like the .300 H&H! Everything shot with a 180 gr. Nosler PT and a good dose of IMR 4350. All were pass throughs except for the blesbok. He was facing me at approx. 125 yards. We found the bullet right under the skin on the back of his right ham.

(.416 member)

14/09/13 09:14 AM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

That Kudu is sure a beauty!
Thanks for sharing your pictures!

(.416 member)

14/09/13 10:07 PM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

Quote:

That Kudu is sure a beauty!
Thanks for sharing your pictures!

+1. Like the Gemsbok too, some good size rings on his horns.

(.400 member)

16/09/13 02:17 AM

Re: Another No.1, but what Calibre?

A .303 would make an interesting counterpoint to the 7x57 !

A .333 Jeffery or .318 WR are options calibre-wise between the 7x57 and .375 but bullet weights are encroaching on the H&H territory.

What about an 8x68S as an alternative to a .300H&H ?

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