NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
18/11/11 07:44 PM
New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

At a recent auction I acquired the following 10-bore Westley Richards Double Rifle.

Following are some photographs posted in 2004 of the rifle. Seeing they are very good, I thought I'd start with these.

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=14952&an=0&page=103&vc=1




WESTLEY RICHARDS
170 New Bond St.
LONDON

A 10 bore, 5 Dram load Black Powder DB hammered top lever < Bar-In-Wood .> Express rifle, percussion styled hammers and fences, opening Westley Richards top lever early style C bolting extension lock up. Safety bolts for locking hammers.. Barrels 28 inch, with excellent clean shiny and well defined rifling. Flat file cut rib with 4 lay down sight leaves graduated from 50 to 200 yards., Silver bead foresight and sling eye. A new authentic style pistol grip stock with cheek rest, steel grip cap, sling eye, Silver oval, new forend, Anson & Deeley forend latch. Good coverage of Westley Richards fine scroll, and an Indian lion depicted on bow of trigger guard L.O.P 14 3/4 ins. to Silvers anti recoil pad. Weight 11 1/4lbs.






NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
18/11/11 07:46 PM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

Per one of NE's members whom enquired to Westley Richards for information of the gun:

Quote:

The gun was built as a 10 bore in 1879, for WC Wood Esq. on behalf of P. Orr & Sons, Madras, India.





Thanks very much for sharing this information.


NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
18/11/11 07:55 PM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

Some photos of the barrels flats.


Left barrel


Right barrel



What does the "11" stand for?

Any information on the proofs would be appreciated. Thanks.


***

Using a vernier caliper the muzzles measure out at about 0.75+ which is a bit small for a 10-bore. Is it a "11-bore"? Does such a thing exist?



Sville
(.400 member)
18/11/11 08:02 PM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

Very nice rifle!! Itīs a pity in Sweden we are only allowed to have six rifles and shotguns. There are so many rifles I would like to buy!!!! /S

NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
18/11/11 08:47 PM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore



The express sights.

Another question for experts. Is this 10-bore designed for both shot and ball?





Not a good photo. Will have to try to get a better one.



controlled_feed
(.300 member)
18/11/11 09:18 PM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

John

What did you use to take the photos of the barrel flats?

CF


tinker
(.416 member)
19/11/11 12:20 AM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

So cool!


No problem believing it's an 11-bore, what are the chamber measurements?
10-bore brass with 11-bore projectile..?

My WR has a cat on the trigger guard too.
I doubt they were thinking shot/ball, the all-folding sights likely were to facilitate 'point-blank' shooting.



Shoot it!
Can't wait to hear how it goes.




Cheers
Tinker


NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
19/11/11 12:47 AM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

Tinker

It will be a long process to get shooting unless I am lucky.

I can't even buy black powder in this state from a black powder specialist gun shop as transporting it is difficult (legally) in commercial quantities. So will pick up some interstate or see if someone can bring some over for me.

Brass? Will probably have to import some.

Projectiles/ball? Will need to source a mould.

First thing is to find out exactly what it shoots, ie brass dimensions etc.

If I'm lucky I may be able to find someone whom knew the previous owner or owners to see if they shot it.


DarylS
(.700 member)
19/11/11 03:57 AM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

What a beautiful early rifle.

Yes - 11 bore is .751" exactly.
In the States, Parker Bros. made 11 bore shotguns for a while.

As Tinker suggested, the chambers, lengths, and sizes are important. You might be able to use 12 bore brass - who knows? They are probably for brass cases, unless there paper cases were made that early? Weren't some 'boxer'(Snider) cases made of thick paper with steel bases around that time?

It will most likely be meant for ball but capable of shooting both, but you will want to check the twist rate. At that time, most guns were sent out with both round ball and a minnie-type bullet moulds some with a press for properly sizing the bullets.

Some British Gun Makers had some wierd ideas on twist rates back then. The invention of breechloading double rifle capable of shooting fixed cartridges made use of elongated bullets of harder alloys possible and safe to shoot and thus made bullets capable of being used on dangerous game.


DarylS
(.700 member)
19/11/11 04:04 AM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

Would have been interesting to see the original stock, but it's sure nicely, beautifully refurbished and re-stocked. What a hunting rifle!

5 drams is the middle of the 2 3/4" 12 bore loads, I believe, at 137gr. of powder with a round ball, of that I'm quite sure.


rigbymauser
(.400 member)
19/11/11 06:56 AM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore


Beautiful rifle John. Take it to India.

Looking at the rifling from here the twist says its made for a conical. If the twist is something like 1:50- 1.60 its conical for sure. A roundball twist is often 1:71 or more.

The stock does look like a re-done job but performed Par Excellence.

To get that gun here shoot again will take some technic. Maybe old 10bore paperhulls can be found or a custom-option is required.

Congratulations:LOL

JR


mehulkamdar
(.416 member)
19/11/11 08:09 AM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

John,

Congratulations on a magnificent treasure, and one that was originally retailed in the town where I was born and grew up. The old P Orr and Sons Building still stands off Mount Road and next door to two other iconic buildings - the offices of the long-dead Mail (a newspaper that I fondly recall) and The Hindu, one of India's oldest English language newspapers. My father's first clinic used to be a very short distance across, inside the old Travancore Palace (that is gone too, and you have a brutalistic building in is place belonging to the Life Insurance Corporation of India.)

I remember the time when P Orr and Sons still sold guns and you could walk through a store with nicely polished teakwood cabinets and look at row after row of guns. The smell of 3 in 1 oil always hung in the air, and it was as addictive to a youngster like me as the smell of weed is, I guess, to some young fellows these days.

The old building now has a store selling cheap watches in front, and the rear and upper floors house a sweatshop making clothing and pillow cases and sofa covers for retailers around the world. A sad end to a glorious firm, no doubt, but all of the staff at P Orr and Sons went on to start their own little gun shops - Sammandan, Scott and Sons, Hindustan Armoury, and so on. I know that the P Orr and Sons business also had an establishment in Rangoon, but have no idea what happened to it. Would be interesting to find out, and, the death of the company (unlike the Calcutta gun shops like Rodda, Manton, Daw, Ashootoosh and Co etc that still exist) makes your gun a treasure that will never be replicated. The Karumuttu Chettiyar family who own the Indian P Orr and Sons business also traded in Burma, Singapore and Malaysia historically, but were kicked out like huge numbers of Indians were by the Burmese military junta.

Congratulations, my friend, and great hunting!


TH44
(.375 member)
19/11/11 08:59 AM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

That is about as good as it gets [for me] - early, almost like a converted pinfire - bar in wood action - bolted locks - fine scroll engraving - top lever, less common this early, [although I gather Westley Richards were very keen on the top lever] - and a rifle!!

Bore rifles, especially percussion, frequently vary by a bore size in the larger sizes

I wish you all the best in getting it shooting, but if not, it is still a part of firearms history and a very good addition to any collection - I am actively looking for a 10 bore - even a single, preferably ball gun or rifle

Best

TH44


DarylS
(.700 member)
19/11/11 09:34 AM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

Possibly made for conicals, JR. Even into the 80's, RB guns of that bore size were made and preferred by some shooters. Judging by the rate of twist does not always work - one must actually shoot the gun and find what it is actually regulated for, I believe.
What it is actually made for, may be better judged by the depth of rifling, rather than it's rate of twist.
This suggestion is basically due to the very early nature of this gun, when round balls were the BEST projectiles being used on heavy and dangerous game.

Then again, explosive bullets were coming into use. Without any documentation, I guess we're on John's time schedule.


rglenz
(.300 member)
19/11/11 02:28 PM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

Nice catch John! The 11 bore stamp is the standard size for a paper case 10 gauge, should be easy to get shooting. You will need to use plastic cases though, paper cases are hard to come by. I'm quite sure it was made for round ball, velocity should be around 1200 fps,(plus or minus)what ever it wants to regulate.

Omnivorous_Bob
(.333 member)
19/11/11 04:22 PM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

John, that's a great looking gun! I've got a copy of an old Tolley ad that lists 1300fps for their 5 dram load with a 700gn ball. My own 5 dram Tolley does just that (1300fps) with 120gn of swiss FFFg. Everything else crossed.

Incidently, if I shoot off sticks with my left forearm resting gently on them I get 18" wide groups at 100. Off hand they're only 6-8"! Barrel time is reeeeeeally long.

My .778" gun is also marked 11. My understanding is that just means that that was the largest bore gauge that would pass through the tube at it's initial proof, even if it was only .001" too small to be called 10. Only after passing that proof was the time spent to rifle and polish, at least that's my understanding as I've seen a lot of 10s marked 11 and 12s marked 13.

Keep us posted on how it shoots!

Bob


kamilaroi
(.400 member)
19/11/11 04:55 PM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

Bar in wood stockwork is about as good as it gets. A fine piece and a fine Westley.

Omnivorous_Bob
(.333 member)
19/11/11 06:15 PM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

I finally found the reference I was thinking of regarding the "11" marked on the proofs. It's from Greener's Modern Breechloaders:Sporting and Military from 1871, pages 40 and 41. He's talking about shotgun barrels here, but I think the same applied to rifles:

"All first-class shooting gunbarrels will be found marked 13-bore. This mark is at the breech-end, stamped at the proof-house. In all cases where barrels are not bored up to the size before being proved,the proof-house people mark them the size under. For instance, supposing the barrels to be 13-guage, they mark them No. 13; and again, if the No. 12 plug will not pass easily down the barrels the whole length, they still mark them No. 13. These marks are looked upon by some as denoting the exact bore of the gun, but this cannot always be depended upon.

All breech-loading barrels are fine-bored after they have received the proof-mark, in order to remove the indentations caused by stamping them at proof. It often happens that they are marked 13, and gauge full 12.

Some American sportsmen will insist upon having their guns marked 12 at the proof This is a great mistake. It is impossible for us to make a really first-class shooting gun so marked. The same remarks apply to guns of 10-bore. These should be marked 11-bore, which allows the barrels
to be, when finished, just under 10-bore."

John, on a curious note I discovered that my barrels have about .003" of choke in the last few inches. I made chamber casts when I got mine and tapped a ball from breech to muzzle through each barrel. It took a steady rapping with a mallet to do so. On a whim I decided to drive a pair in the other direction and was surprised when they fell freely to the chambered after 3-4 inches.

Bob


FATBOY404
(.400 member)
19/11/11 09:55 PM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

Very nice NitroX.
I hope to build a 12 bore next year.


NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
19/11/11 11:29 PM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

Quote:

... may be better judged by the depth of rifling, rather than it's rate of twist.




There isn't any depth of rifling, as the barrel is octagonal inside with the octagon "twisting" down the barrel. With small peaks in each side. Henry rifling.

Trying to take some photos to illustrate.

I believe Mickey has previously posted some photos of a similar barrel.


NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
20/11/11 12:15 AM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore







DarylS
(.700 member)
20/11/11 05:41 AM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

The groove to groove I meant, was largest size, corner of the flat & notch to corner of the flat and notch.

The breech picture shows slower rifling what what they look like in the first muzzle-shot. This is good.

Due to the style, the difference from smallest mesurement, tops of the flats across to depth of corners looks like fair depth. It's the difference from minimum to maximum that's important.

I would think that a 5 dram load should give around 1,300fps at regulation, as Bob found in his gun.

If the barrel will allow a true 10 bore ball(.775"), in pure lead, they'll be about 700gr. of course. In WW alloy - about 670gr. I'd think something like 50:50 WW/Pure would be about perfect for penetration and easier on the barrels than if harder. Shooting ability will, of course show what's needed.

The chambers appear to be cut for a fairly thick case. Lucky, but brass would have been nice, just the same.


tinker
(.416 member)
20/11/11 12:07 PM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

That's the same rifling profile as my WR 16bore

In a discussion on that rifle I showed some balls I'd swaged through the bores.
Octagons!

The rib is marked to note a whitworth patent, and I think the forend hook is marked with a patent use number.

Get that rifle running or send it to me so that it can hang out with mine.
;^)




Cheers
Tinker


NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
20/11/11 02:19 PM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

Daryl and Tinker and Everyone else,

This is all new to me, so I appreciate any comments.

BTW I think I read once that it is not good to use plastic hulls with black powder? That the BP generates too much heat?

Why can't brass shells be used in a 10-bore OR this rifle? Assuming they can be sourced of course.

I have a good idea whom to call about past information on this rifle. Maybe even the guy whom may have restored it.


kamilaroi
(.400 member)
20/11/11 02:24 PM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

^ Ross W may have done the stock as I saw a pair of BiW Purdeys that he did at Geoff Slee's place prior to his passing.

NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
20/11/11 03:34 PM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

Thanks K.

I was thinking Rolf may have done some metal work on it. Ross W is a good prospect for the stock.

Thinking RB as I want to see if anyone already knows what exactly it shoots, chamber etc.

The other source of info, is anyone whom knew the previous owner, as maybe he worked some things out already. Looking that up as well.

Pity the auction wasn't done in a better fashion, with more info and actually putting some stuff together. I'm sure the owner (deceased) would have been shooting some of this stuff, and had things put together. Now scattered to the four corners of the Earth.


kamilaroi
(.400 member)
20/11/11 05:34 PM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

IIRC Ralf may have been liable to institute some interpretation of what was kosher unless under specific instruction recorded on a job sheet. Jest saying and without malice.

Grenadier
(.375 member)
20/11/11 07:20 PM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

Nice addition to your collection, NitroX.

NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
22/11/11 01:18 AM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

Quote:

John

What did you use to take the photos of the barrel flats?

CF




A digital SLR camera. And used a torch held to shine from the side onto the engraved printing. Then cropped the large image file.

The torch helped bring out the print with shadows etc.


gatsby
(.375 member)
22/11/11 08:05 PM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

Quote:

Daryl and Tinker and Everyone else,

This is all new to me, so I appreciate any comments.

BTW I think I read once that it is not good to use plastic hulls with black powder? That the BP generates too much heat?

Why can't brass shells be used in a 10-bore OR this rifle? Assuming they can be sourced of course.

I have a good idea whom to call about past information on this rifle. Maybe even the guy whom may have restored it.





Very nice gun. I shoot black in plastic cases in the 10 and 8 bore guns and I haven't had any problems. I have a six dram 10 bore paradox. It is one of my favorite guns to shoot recoil wise. A lot of pop in a 10 bore five or six dram load. I use Federal 3.5" 10 gauge cases and trim them to length which is 2 5/8 for the 6 dram load. Got to get all your bore and chamber measurements then start assembling your loads. I also use Bluedot powder as does Omnibob and many other bore rifle shooters.


NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
22/11/11 10:41 PM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

Back to an earlier comment.

Can you shoot shot in these bores as well?

Does it harm them in any way, or prevent reasonable patterns?

Need to clean the bore, before using a ball round?

I like the idea of being able to use both ball and shot. And also still think the reason the sights all fold down is to use the gun as a shotgun. Accept I could be completely wrong ie the earlier comment they all fold down for close up "ball" action.


DarylS
(.700 member)
23/11/11 02:42 AM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

John - Forsyth spoke of 'point blank range' sighting being taken over the folded leaves - as in when stalking through tight jungle. The sights would be folded to prevent unjury to them, and only raised if there was time, the sighting being taken over the leaves, the actual elevation for a 5 to 25 yard shot being given by the elevation of the breech (diameter). This was normal for smaller bores, ie: 14 to 16.

This probably would not work well in your 10 bore ctg. gun, as the requisite amount of powder to give a long point blank range is more than will fit in the ctg.

However, it might still be good to fire a couple shots, sighting over the folded leaves, placing the entire bead and it's base on the level surface of the leaves and see where the ball lands at 10 yards or 20 yards. Might be interesting and it could be on the bead, which would be perfect.

This is the sighting for my single shot 14 bore rifle - all leaves folded, base level on the leaves - ball hits on the bead to 50yards. So- if there isn't time to raise the first leaf, accurate sighting can still be made - close in.


NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
24/11/11 08:15 PM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

Daryl,

I believe you regarding the use of the express sights for very close shots!

I am still wondering though if shot can be used in these sorts of bores? Good idea? Bad idea? Won't pattern well? Work like like a wonder?!

Would make a great "cape gun" if one could load one barrel with 700 grain lead ball, and the other with shot ... ?


NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
24/11/11 08:28 PM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

Quote:

I've got a copy of an old Tolley ad that lists 1300fps for their 5 dram load with a 700gn ball. My own 5 dram Tolley does just that (1300fps) with 120gn of swiss FFFg. Everything else crossed.

Bob




Bob,

so 700 grs x 5 drams x 1300 fps = 2627 ft lbs.

Bummer, not enough for BGRC Nitro 3 competition. Still need a .500 !

But just goes to show WHY the Nitro cartridges superseeded these old guns. And also if one would examine the lack of penetration of a round lead ball, why the early elephant hunters often had a "boy", oops, better say gunbearer (was just being historically correct), carrying a second one.


DarylS
(.700 member)
25/11/11 03:30 AM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

According to Samuel Baker, a 14 bore double rifle shooting round balls, with only 4 1/2 drams, would put a ball completely through an Indian Elephant's head, side to side. Of course, they used hardened balls. Slugs were tried by many & him and given up upon as being inferior due to THEIR lack of penetration.

I'm talking muzzleloaders here. In a muzzleloader, hardened bullets could not be used. Hardened bullets had to be undersize to get down the bore and as such, they'd fall from the bore, or worse, move down and lodge as an obstruction if the muzzles were tilted down, as well as being inaccurate as they didn't 'take' the rifling. A hardened round ball penetrated more than enough on the heavy game.

After ctg. guns were developed and slugs could be hardened, they replaced the round balls in some guns, but not entirely, as many still trusted the hardened round balls over slugs, especially in the large bore doubles, 10's and 8's for example.

Nitro powders allowed the use of small bore sizes for all large and dangerous game, ie: .45 and .50 cal., which were mere 'stalking' or deer rifles prior to the development of smokeless powders. The nitro powders did little to improve upon the killing power of the very large bores, ie: 12 and over, as they didn't increase the speed of the balls much at all, merely shot somewhat cleaner.

Shot will probably pattern just fine out to 25 yards on rising birds, but the rifling is against you and will blow patterns fast. You'll have to test, of course. Without any sort of choke, heavy wads are prone to making donut patterns - one must adjust the load, ie: wads to find a load that shoots well. It takes at least 3 shots to 'prove' a load, pattern wise. A single shot on a patterning board can have you using a useless load for hunting and that merely makes one upset with nothing but misses due to donuts (nothing in the centre of the pattern where the wad blew through. It doen's talwasy blow through the centre, sometimes removing the entire left, right, top or bottom of the pattern. It's all experimentation - then, you get to try to find a load that shoots the same in each barrel - nothing but fun!

I've used shot in my Hawken .58 (24 bore) MLoading Rifle for grouse to 25 yards, but past that the pattern was VERY thin. It was deadly, if you could get it's 11 1/2 pounds swinging. My 9 1/2 pound 14 bore would be much better, but have never tried it with shot. I have the wads, but that's as far as that went.
Rifling can grab some lead, but a tight patch usually pulls that out.


tinker
(.416 member)
25/11/11 04:50 AM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

NitroX-


Those bores will throw donut-shaped shot patterns.
Test it on a pattern board and see.

Get your chambers cast with alloy or sulphur.
Run it with blueDot as Gatsby and JAZ do with their bore rifles.
You'll love it.




Cheers
Tinker


TH44
(.375 member)
26/11/11 11:31 AM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

Daryl

Excellent comments on the transition from BP to Nitro, exactly what was forming in my own mind when researching info on Ball Guns

The muzzleloading connection is especially relevant, in the back of beyond - Africa and India? - muzzleloaders were used much later than generally realised.

I have a quite late WR Monkeytail carbine that came from South Africa, long after cartridge arms were popular

Kind regards

TH44


rigbymauser
(.400 member)
26/11/11 06:56 PM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

These bore rifles are truly special. I realized this earlier when I in a brief moment had a plan to swap my 10bore Manton into a backaction.465H&H. I actually had made an unformal agreement with a gundealer in Germany..however I got cool feet, withdrew and pulled back. I know today I am in a bad standing with the gundealer. I just can`t sell my Manton. I have looked over the net and I can found the first 7 .465s for sale but yet no 10bore in the condition my borerifle is in. Borerifles are becomming more and more scarce. Today I feel like I have saved myself from a lifetime regret and my Manton feels now even more precious to me...really like a new gun in the rack

mehulkamdar
(.416 member)
14/12/11 02:00 PM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

John,

A picture of the P Orr and Sons Building: these days they are only remembered as watch sellers though the article mentions "arms."

The exterior's been whitewashed recently, a sad change. I preferred the original light yellow lime exterior. But then, its almost ten years since I was in India last and I most probably won't recognize a lot that has changed since then.


CommandCar
(.333 member)
14/12/11 03:00 PM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

Quote:


Why can't brass shells be used in a 10-bore OR this rifle? Assuming they can be sourced of course.




NitroX,

There are two types of brass cases. First there are those that were designed for later brass cased bore rifles. These are thin brass and the guns they fit have larger bores due to the thinner case walls. The second type of brass case is, I understand, a more modern adaptation to make brass cases that fit in paper case bore rifles. Since your Westley is an early paper case gun, you would need to order turned thick all brass cases if that's what you fancy. I believe they can be obtained in the States from http://rockymountaincartridge.com/ and I know John Millar in BC can make them. Obviously you would have casts and measurements of your chambers and ball diameter ready when you place the order.
Nice Rifle, I agree with the others, get it up running with Blue Dot and cut down plastic...then you can play with the other stuff at your leisure.


NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
02/06/23 10:12 AM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

Bttt for me

bwanabobftw
(.375 member)
05/06/23 09:35 AM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

What a great find John !!!!!! Just remember, getting it to shoot is half the fun

NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
13/12/23 06:53 AM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

On Farcebook someone is claiming a 10-bore 5 dram load isn't up to the task of killing a water buffalo.

OPINIONS GENTLEMEN?


BTW I really hope to get this ready for a trip to the Top End in 2024.


DarylS
(.700 member)
13/12/23 09:46 AM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

Normal loads for 10 bore shotguns were 4 and up to 4 1/2 dams. They were not using heavy shot charges, though, but in the 1 1/4 to 1 3/8oz.

5 drams = 136.5gr. weight. What bullet or ball is to be used in this 10 bore, for water buffalo?

I would think it would work, but I personally would prefer more powder as designed into the guns. Should it not depend on how the gun regulates?

I think the 5 dams load vel. of little more than 1,250fps with round ball & maybe 1,000fps with a slug, will make for a steep trajectory, and unless a hardened ball is used, poor penetration.
It should work, but??

Greener's book lists 10 drams (273gr.) as normal 10 bore load with a hardened 674gr. round ball, I assume. The vel. listed for such a load is 1,600fps in an 11 pound gun.
My chart lists a 10 bore ball of .774" at weighing 700gr. in pure lead.


NitroXAdministrator
(.700 member)
13/12/23 10:12 AM
Re: New to my gunrack - Westley Richards 10-bore

The "5 dram" only comes from the originally selling advertisement description twenty years ago by .

I doubt its been fired all that time.

Wouldn't the DRAM load be listed on the barrel flats? I can't see anything in the photos. Can look at the gun later.

Embarrassing Ive not got it shooting all this time. But at least it isn't wearing out either. I hope for it to be blooded again on something in 2024 absolutely, Jolly Good.



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