| Ripp |
| (.577 member) |
| 06/04/22 04:13 AM |
1896 Mauser --30 Mauser
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Saw this at a gun shop in my travels last week.. thought some might appreciate it for what it is..
20220330_113449 by A Hoffart, on Flickr
20220330_113504 by A Hoffart, on Flickr
| 93x64mm |
| (.416 member) |
| 06/04/22 06:54 AM |
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Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser
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Looks like they was 2 there Ripp!
Marvellous stock & barrel work - not really a handy camp carbine any more.
Similar I guess to the little M1 carbine
NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 06/04/22 10:46 AM |
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Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser
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So we're these always carbines? Or are they handguns restocked and modified?
.30 Mauser? Of course normally known as 7.63x25.
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 06/04/22 11:03 AM |
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Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser
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Ripp,. I note proxibid had a carbine version sell for $950. Different butt stock. Sale Feb 2019
https://www.proxibid.com/Firearms-Milita...mation/45836339
German made semi-automatic C96 pistol converted into C96 Carbine configuration, chambered in 7.63x25mm Mauser. Imported by Navy Arms of Ridgefield, N.J. with faint import marks on underside of the triggerguard. Features a blued finish, 16" barrel, patridge front sight, tangent rear sight graduated to 1,000 meters, smooth trigger, small ring hammer, manual safety on the rear of the grip frame, integral 10 round box magazine, steel frame, sling swivels, smooth wood forend and fixed pistol grip shoulder stock with grooved butt. Rifle retains approximately 95% of it's blued finish showing light edge wear and handling marks with some imperfections in the metal under the finish. Action is smooth, the bore is pristine and the wood stocks are good+ showing a repair to the pistol grip. Condition is NRA Very Good+ as modified. ***C&R Firearm***
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 06/04/22 11:11 AM |
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Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser
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https://www.icollector.com/Mauser-C96-Carbine-30-Mauser-SN-2359_i35432653
This one, the same or similar? Different SN. Sold for $1900 two years ago. Jan 2020.
https://dygtyjqp7pi0m.cloudfront.net/i/41256/35432653_4m.jpg?v=8D7A692BAAB2970
Carbine, Semi-automatic. German-made C96 pistol reworked into C96 Carbine configuration. 16" tapered barrel has been lengthened. Fixed front sight blade, and 50-1000, adjustable V-notch tangent rear sights. Integral box magazine. 3-line Mauser address on chamber. Mauser banner on left frame. 2-line Mauser address on right frame. Matched serial #'s on frame, and grip frame. U crown proof on chamber. N/8 on hammer. Blued metal finish, with chrome small ring hammer, and slide. Bore appears excellent/bright. Action is crisp/tight. Smooth wood forearm, and pistol grip rear stock. Stock numbered 1091. Sling swivels attached. Blued metal finish is about 98%, with small scratches/rubs, Nothing serious. Wood is excellent. with a couple of minor dents. NRA condition-Very Good, as reworked. Modern firearm. C&R Eligbile.
| Ripp |
| (.577 member) |
| 07/04/22 02:51 AM |
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Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser
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Quote:
https://www.icollector.com/Mauser-C96-Carbine-30-Mauser-SN-2359_i35432653
This one, the same or similar? Different SN. Sold for $1900 two years ago. Jan 2020.
https://dygtyjqp7pi0m.cloudfront.net/i/41256/35432653_4m.jpg?v=8D7A692BAAB2970
Carbine, Semi-automatic. German-made C96 pistol reworked into C96 Carbine configuration. 16" tapered barrel has been lengthened. Fixed front sight blade, and 50-1000, adjustable V-notch tangent rear sights. Integral box magazine. 3-line Mauser address on chamber. Mauser banner on left frame. 2-line Mauser address on right frame. Matched serial #'s on frame, and grip frame. U crown proof on chamber. N/8 on hammer. Blued metal finish, with chrome small ring hammer, and slide. Bore appears excellent/bright. Action is crisp/tight. Smooth wood forearm, and pistol grip rear stock. Stock numbered 1091. Sling swivels attached. Blued metal finish is about 98%, with small scratches/rubs, Nothing serious. Wood is excellent. with a couple of minor dents. NRA condition-Very Good, as reworked. Modern firearm. C&R Eligbile.
I am sure these are on consignment at the gun shop.. someone is retiring, died or whatever.. so getting them sold..this is the same shop that sold off a guys entire collection after he passed away..had over 100 colt handgun as well as over 100 Winchesters.. impressive..
Personally I have zero interest in this..but thought others would find it interesting... I had never seen one let alone 2 before..
| mckinney |
| (.400 member) |
| 07/04/22 11:20 AM |
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Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser
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Didn’t Bell have one of these in Africa? Not a modified one but original Mauser with a factory stock that attaches to the pistol? I seem to remember reading that he did.
I always wanted one of the original rigs, but very pricey nowadays for a good one.
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 07/04/22 11:39 AM |
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Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser
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Hopefully Kuduae or Lancaster can comment.
But pretty sure they are USA custom restocked.
| lancaster |
| (.470 member) |
| 07/04/22 07:40 PM |
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Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser
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there were different styles but this guns there are very likely repros made from original C96 pistols.
such carbines were made by different gunmakerin the last 30 years,in germany but maybe also in the usa. the price is high for a repro, imho, because they start with a cheap shoot out chinese pistol.
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 07/04/22 09:10 PM |
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Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser
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I like the standard old wooden holster attached to toe C96 to form a carbine.
I want a C96 Mauser 7.65 one day. Of course I'd never attach a wooden buttstock holster as it makes the firearm a deadly illegal firearm here.
Btw these C96 carbines look a lot like the rifles in the original Planet of the Apes movie.
| kuduae |
| (.400 member) |
| 07/04/22 10:47 PM |
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Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser
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I agree with Lancaster. All the C96 carbines shown here were at least restocked and rebarreked quite recently. The barrels seem to be too long as the known originals were 14” maximum usually. The crucial difference of C96 pistol and carbine actions: on the carbine actions the pistol grip was part of the detachable buttstock. It was joined to the action body by a horizontal dovetail, locked by a left to right push button. This one seems to be the only one that shows this arrangement:
It may be an original carbine action or a pistol action remachined by a very good craftsman.
This one is obviously a converted pistol and was described as such in the auction:
On these two the crucial parts are unfortunately covered by the price tags, but the left one is apparently a converted 1930s “Schnellfeuer” pistol due to the detachable
magazine.
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2ncH7XF]
[/url]
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 07/04/22 11:36 PM |
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Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser
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Quote:
but the left one is apparently a converted 1930s “Schnellfeuer” pistol due to the detachable
magazine.
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2ncH7XF]
There you go Ripp. Potentially full auto.
Thanks L and A.
| Ripp |
| (.577 member) |
| 08/04/22 01:29 AM |
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Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser
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Quote:Quote:
but the left one is apparently a converted 1930s “Schnellfeuer” pistol due to the detachable
magazine.
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2ncH7XF]
There you go Ripp. Potentially full auto.
Thanks L and A.
Thank you very much for the info.. greatly appreciated..
Ripp
| lancaster |
| (.470 member) |
| 08/04/22 04:27 AM |
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Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser
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Quote:
I agree with Lancaster. All the C96 carbines shown here were at least restocked and rebarreked quite recently. The barrels seem to be too long as the known originals were 14” maximum usually.
I think too the barrels are longer than original but this could be because of a american gun law ban rilfes under a certain length. you see semi auto carbines made from old submachine guns with longer barrels and this here is maybe the same.
| Ripp |
| (.577 member) |
| 09/04/22 01:35 AM |
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Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser
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Quote:Quote:
I agree with Lancaster. All the C96 carbines shown here were at least restocked and rebarreked quite recently. The barrels seem to be too long as the known originals were 14” maximum usually.
I think too the barrels are longer than original but this could be because of a american gun law ban rilfes under a certain length. you see semi auto carbines made from old submachine guns with longer barrels and this here is maybe the same.
16" is the law I believe on the rifles.. but with the new short barreled pistols we see everywhere those are all the way down to 8 1/2" or shorter. Who knows, perhaps depending on how this is classified ???
| Ripp |
| (.577 member) |
| 09/04/22 01:37 AM |
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Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser
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These requirements may vary for different jurisdictions.
Examples of minimum length requirements in federal law [ATF-NFA] include: 16 inch barrel length for rifles, 18 inch barrel length for shotguns, and 26 inch overall length for both rifles and shotguns.Feb 6, 2018
---
More info.. short barreled pistol vs rifle..
AR-15 Pistol or SBR (Short Barrel Rifle): What’s Best For You?
Not sure to go with an AR-15 pistol and brace, or go with a tax stamp and SBR? We cover the pros/cons, current legal standings, and our top picks.
https://www.pewpewtactical.com/ar15-pistol-sbr/
| Rothhammer1 |
| (.400 member) |
| 09/04/22 08:47 AM |
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Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser
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Quote:
Btw these C96 carbines look a lot like the rifles in the original Planet of the Apes movie.
Video: YouTube Planet Apes M1 Carbine Stock
Here's Ferdinand Mannlicher's idea of a pistol / carbine:
Mannlicher M1901
| 93x64mm |
| (.416 member) |
| 10/04/22 07:15 AM |
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Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser
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Were they in .30 Mauser as well Rothhammer?
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 10/04/22 12:08 PM |
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Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser
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Thanks. The Planet of the Apes rifles were even more basic. I didn't know they were .30 M1 carbines.
Looking on Google I find a. NE thread by Lancaster from seven years ago.
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....age=-1&vc=1
Mauser C96 carbine
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 10/04/22 12:28 PM |
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Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E6PVd_cuWcM
Scoped C96 Sporting carbine
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 10/04/22 12:30 PM |
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Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=szlJ9qy_SCg
Mauser C96 prototype 1917 trench carbine
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 10/04/22 09:10 PM |
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Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser
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Quote:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=szlJ9qy_SCg
Mauser C96 prototype 1917 trench carbine
Gentlemen, this video shows the design is actually quite accurate to WW1 Mauser carbine C96 prototypes.
Some of these might be C96 pistols converted. But they look a hell like the carbine prototypes. If they actually were one of those, those prices might not be extraordinary to a collector. One million made pistols vs 40 prototype carbines.
If made from C96 the stocks look quite spot on.
Interesting some of the prototype carbines did have detachable magazines. Still semi auto. So one if the carbine in the rack has a detachable magazine, who knows?
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 10/04/22 09:23 PM |
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Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser
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Quote:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E6PVd_cuWcM
Scoped C96 Sporting carbine
Another original Mauser carbine from the early 1896 to 1899 production years.
| lancaster |
| (.470 member) |
| 11/04/22 03:49 AM |
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Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser
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I bet a C 96 stripper clip the one with the open magazin was made by using a model 1932 schnellfeuerpistole
| Rothhammer1 |
| (.400 member) |
| 11/04/22 05:43 PM |
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Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser
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Quote:
Looking on Google I find a. NE thread by Lancaster from seven years ago.
That NE (NitroExpress) is one first rate website!
| Rothhammer1 |
| (.400 member) |
| 11/04/22 05:46 PM |
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Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser
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Quote:
Were they in .30 Mauser as well Rothhammer?
Don't know 'offhand' but I suspect not as it seems Mannlicher designs of the time tended to favor exclusive and proprietary chamberings.
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 11/04/22 07:00 PM |
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Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser
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Quote:Quote:
Looking on Google I find a. NE thread by Lancaster from seven years ago.
That NE (NitroExpress) is one first rate website!
Yes it is. Once when looking for Mannlicher images. I found many of the first 200 images all from NE. A great place for some africa hunting forum members to steal images from! If photo bucket had not gone bonkers the old images we would still have.
We still have also the under used nickudu files, a huge archive of books and articles. So neglected. One day I would love to scan the pdfs and put into ezine serialised format. Just need workable sw without lots of hand editing. And time ...
It's a pity the Facebook exiles don't realise their error and return from the cold to the warm camp fire and scotch.
| kuduae |
| (.400 member) |
| 11/04/22 08:12 PM |
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Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser
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Quote:
Were they in .30 Mauser as well Rothhammer?
The 1901 Mannlicher carbine used a proprietary Austrian load of the 7.62x25 Borchard – Mauser – Tokarev cartridge. While both then Mauser and Tokarev versions were loaded to about 1400 fps, the Borchard and Mannlicher cartridges were loaded to about 10 % less velocity. All four cartridges share he same dimensions and about 86 gr bullets.
The Mannlicher carbine has a serious design flaw, compared to the Mauser and Luger carbines: All three carbines are short recoil actions, depending on the barrel recoiling backwards on firing. On the Mauser and Luger carbines the foreend is mounted with a hanger on the lower receiver, independent of the recoiling barrel. The Mannlicher has the foreend fastened to the barrel, so it moves with the barrel on recoil. As I know from experience many years ago, gripping the foreend of a Mannlicher carbine will lead to malfunctions. If you pull back with your hand, the barrel will slide back slightly and disconnect the trigger, no blammo. If you grip the forend hard, pushing foreward, you add the mass of your arm to the recoiling parts and the gun will not function properly. So the nice foreend of the Mannlicher carbine is quite useless.
| lancaster |
| (.470 member) |
| 12/04/22 05:36 AM |
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Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser
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I understand you have shoot the little mannlicher carbine? probably with a handload?
not many can say that about themselves, this are very nice made little carbines.
| Ripp |
| (.577 member) |
| 13/04/22 12:10 AM |
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Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser
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Quote:Quote:
Were they in .30 Mauser as well Rothhammer?
The 1901 Mannlicher carbine used a proprietary Austrian load of the 7.62x25 Borchard – Mauser – Tokarev cartridge. While both then Mauser and Tokarev versions were loaded to about 1400 fps, the Borchard and Mannlicher cartridges were loaded to about 10 % less velocity. All four cartridges share he same dimensions and about 86 gr bullets.
The Mannlicher carbine has a serious design flaw, compared to the Mauser and Luger carbines: All three carbines are short recoil actions, depending on the barrel recoiling backwards on firing. On the Mauser and Luger carbines the foreend is mounted with a hanger on the lower receiver, independent of the recoiling barrel. The Mannlicher has the foreend fastened to the barrel, so it moves with the barrel on recoil. As I know from experience many years ago, gripping the foreend of a Mannlicher carbine will lead to malfunctions. If you pull back with your hand, the barrel will slide back slightly and disconnect the trigger, no blammo. If you grip the forend hard, pushing foreward, you add the mass of your arm to the recoiling parts and the gun will not function properly. So the nice foreend of the Mannlicher carbine is quite useless.
Thank you for this info..
Incidentally, my father-in-law.. who is a serious gun collector.. has 2 original Luger carbines... they are in very good condition.. joy to look at and handle..
| lancaster |
| (.470 member) |
| 13/04/22 01:49 AM |
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Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser
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probably in 7,65x21 Parabellum but for the carbine with a stronger load then normal
| kuduae |
| (.400 member) |
| 13/04/22 03:14 AM |
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Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser
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Quote:
I understand you have shoot the little mannlicher carbine? probably with a handload?
not many can say that about themselves, this are very nice made little carbines.
Yes. About 50 years ago an old man brought such an 1897-01 Mannlicher carbine with him to our shooting range. He had a bag of loose old factory cartridges, probably 7.62 Mauser loads. Nobody cared then. He let me shoot a full 6 shot magazine at a 50 meter target. He watched me trying to shoot the thing, quite amused. At first I pulled the little carbine back into my shoulder as i would hold any other rifle or shotgun. Nothing happened. He then told me not to pull back on the foreend. I gripped the wood foreend with my hand, careful to keep it forward. Bang! but no ejection or reloading. Only then the old man instructed me to hold the foreend with my fingertips only. The next five rounds fired and worked perfectly. It's a long time ago now and I don't know what happened to the carbine.
These Mannlicher Selbstladekarabiner may be well made and nice looking. But a gun that does not work properly in a hurry is pretty useless imho.
| lancaster |
| (.470 member) |
| 13/04/22 04:59 AM |
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Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser
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thanks, never heard about this design problem before because,well, nobody try to shoot such an rare and expensive collector piece today.
it may have been the reason this carbines were build in such a low quantity.
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 13/04/22 04:33 PM |
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Re: 1896 Mauser --30 Mauser
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An obvious reason for the failure of the carbine design.
Great to have such experienced members here. Who would think holding the forend normally would result in the semi auto's cycling to fail. And that the whole barrel AND forend cycles.