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I'm a bit happy with a recent purchase. [image]https://www.dropbox.com/s/qnkd6dw41u7pe3d/IMGP8307.JPG?dl=0[/image] |
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Very nice rifle, Francis; congratulations on your purchase. Please post more photos when you can. Which model of MS is that one? Louis |
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A bit happy you say!!! I'd be over the moon with that piece of kit. |
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Well done Francis, very nice rifle. I would love one in that cartridge myself. Post some more photos if you can. Brass is available from Bertram. Matt. |
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I must say i am very pleased with it, it turned out to be much better than described. It is always worrying when you buy something without actually seeing it in person if you know what I mean. Louis,it is a model 1905 with just "Steyr" on the action wall which I think means it was a military action. (correct me if I'm wrong). 9.3x64, yes, I was playing down my excitement somewhat. :-) Matt & Louis, trying to work out how to put up photo's from Dropbox so that you don't have to follow a link. Thank for your kind words. :-) John. |
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Francis, you first called the rifle a 375 however you now are saying it is a 9.3x63, confused. The label in the rifle case says it is a 375 Express and I believe it also is saying its for 40 grs of cordite. The 375 express would be the same as a 9.5x56, sometimes referred to as the 9.5x57. Can you please recheck and clear up my confusion? Thanks Very nice looking rifle and look forward to seeing additional pictures. I am quite interested in details of the takedown feature. So any picture of that and discussion of the details around it will be most appreciated. I am currently starting work on a Steyr M1895, marked 1896, which I want to make into a takedown also. |
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LRF, 9.3x64 was a reply to a previous poster (poster's username). Am working on the photo's and will try and get them up soon. John. |
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Understood |
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Thank you Francis; let's now wait for more photos when you can. Louis |
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Quote: Try this for photos. It's quick, easy, free, and it works: Post Photos on NitroExpress I can't see your photo from the previous post, but a Mannlicher Schoenauer marked 'Steyr 1905' on the side rail is not an M1905. It is, as you suspect, a military model - a 'Greek Contract' Y1903/05 and as such was originally chambered for 6.5X54MS. Here is a somewhat lengthy post I sent to another 'site not long ago that will explain. It was a reply to a member with a Breda MS, but read through for a description of the 'Greek' MS models and their markings: Greek MS Reading through it, I noticed omission of the M1908 (8X56) in my list of pre - WW2 MS sporting arms of the MS proprietary chamberings. They were, M1900 M1903 - 6.5X54 M1905 - 9X56 M1908 - 8X56 M1910 - 9.5X57 a.k.a. .375 Nitro Express Rimless 2.25" |
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Tried the link but my German is not that good. Couldn't find a translate tab but thanks for the suggestion. John |
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Quote: Here's a translation of the screen: PicR - Welcome to the super fast deluxe upload Problems, worries, mistakes? - Send an email to our crew at help@picr.de or visit the new PICR FACEBOOK GROUP to exchange ideas . It works very simply: optionally click on the green output options link to preset the image size and format, then on the large upload field, select the images (several at once by holding down the CTRL key) and confirm with OK in the file selection window . The upload starts immediately and the picture codes are generated. SHOW OUTPUT OPTIONS - Click here to show the usual output options. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Drag and drop your images to this field *** or *** Click to open the browser multiple selection. Finally - PicR keeps sorting by filename --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use these instructions and it's 'easy peasey': Here's how: 1) Go to picr.de, translate if necessary (it's in German but is very to use even if you don't sprecken Deutsche). 2) Go to your stored images (with picr.de still open and displayed on your screen) and 'drag' desired photo to the shaded area on the picr.de screen. Repeat as necessary for additional photos. 3) After picr.de lists the coded filenames of the photos (they will appear as lines of text on picr.de screen), highlight them, press 'control - C'. They are now ready for transfer. 4) Compose your post on NitroExpress, go to and click 'Image'. Delete 'http//' highlighted in box. Press 'Control - V', then the 'OK' box which will transfer images to your post. Your images will post for all to see. |
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https://picr.me/image/VaJynZ |
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Quote: Have you any other photos? This one seems to show a turned down military (Y1903) bolt handle and perhaps a take down stock? |
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Beautiful gun, a dream of mine right there. The .400/375 was the first belted sporting round if I recall correctly. Wonderful little round, have one in the cartridge collection |
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Quote: Now that I finally gained access to the OP photo (entered url as search), I see that to which you're referring: It appears to be a rather nice cased H&H Mannlicher Schoenauer, possibly chambered for the H&H .375 Velopex which competed with the 9.5X57 Mannlicher Schoenauer. If it were .375 RNE (9.5X57MS) it would be proofed for a 43 grain cordite charge, the .375 H&H Magnum used 58 grains Cordite for a 300 grain projectile, 61 for a 270, and 62 grains to push a 235 grain pill. Excerpt from an article found on the 'net (http://unionsportsmen.org/top-contender-for-elusive-title-as-best-all-around-rifle/): "The .375 H&H Magnum was introduced by the great British gunmaking firm of Holland & Holland in 1912. It was not their first attempt at a .375-caliber cartridge. At the beginning of the 19th Century inexpensive European bolt actions, mostly Mannlichers and Mausers, were cutting deeply into the British gun trade. One of the popular numbers was the 9.5mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer, a mild but very useful cartridge with bullet diameter of .375-inch. In 1905 Holland countered with the .375 Nitro Express, also called “.375 Velopex.” The cartridge was an anemic flop, best remembered for two things: It was the first commercial belted cartridge, and it was the forerunner to Holland & Holland’s most enduring cartridge development, the .375 H&H Magnum." Here is an American Rifleman article about early .375 cartridges: Article Francis had indicated that the receiver side rail is marked '1905' (Steyr 1905?) which would indicate that it was built on a Y1903 ('Greek') military MS receiver, which is consistent with the knob bolt handle. Assuming rifle matches case, I believe it was built for a customer or shop in India as evidenced by the case label listing ammunition availability in Bombay, Calcutta and Lahore. The Holland and Holland serial number 24334 should be a sufficient key to unlock its past. The checkering looks similar to that shown in this image from the 1939 Stoeger catalog: |
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Brian, I should point out that it is actually the other way around. The 400/375 came out in 1905 and the 375 NE Rimless came out in 1910. That particular story gets told incorrectly all the time including in that article. Matt. |
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Quote: I was wondering that, myself, thanks for pointing it out. Westley Richards was still referring to the .375 RNE as their 'new cartridge, adapted by Westley Richards & Co. after careful experiment' in 1912: |
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Here's one built on a Mauser: 400 / .375 This one's on an MS: GunsAmerica The cartridge: Cartridge IAA |
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Thank you for putting those photo's up Rothhammer1, much appreciated. Love the cartridge packet and all the info. :-) John |
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Francis Did you see this thread showing a similar label as your rifle with only ~60 serial numbers difference? (scroll down about half way thru the page (pp 5)) 375 NE H&H |
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Thanks LRF, i hadn't seen that. Interesting that it has the Mannlicher style bolt handle when only so few numbers apart. I wonder if it was special order or just whatever action they happened to grab. |
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Quote: Mauser also used a 'butterknife' bolt handle on stutzen model: |
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Maybe I should have said European style bolt handle rather than Mannlicher, I was curious as to H&H using two different styles so few numbers apart. |
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Francis, I believe your rifle with the round bolt handle may very well have started its life as an action bound for a military rifle. H&H probably was just buying actions and taking what they could get. That is all guess work on my part. Or the original buyer, as you suggested, wanted the round bolt handle. Only past history knows and we may never know. There is one thing you could do to maybe help this investigation is to take a picture of the top of the front receiver ring so we can see what is stamped there. |