Station: ABC 702 SYDNEY Date: 02/07/2003 Program:
BREAKFAST Time: 08:35 AM
Item: CATTERNS TALKS ABOUT CALLS FOR SPORTING SHOOTING BE INCLUDED IN
THE OLYMPIC GAMES.
INTERVIEW: GARY FLEETWOOD, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, SPORTING SHOOTERS
ASSOCIATION.

ANGELA CATTERNS: I'm not sure what you think of BMX bike riding
as part of the Olympics. I can't help thinking what will be next -
perhaps the sport of practical shooting. From all accounts, it's just
as popular in this country and it has participants in a race against the
clock, shooting in a variety of positions as they run a gauntlet of
targets.
Now supporters of the sport are lobbying, not only for it to be included
in the Olympics, but also to have the calibre of guns they use exempted
from the national guidelines. Gary Fleetwood is an executive director
of the Sporting Shooters Association and the 1981 Practical Shooting
national champion. He joins us on the line. Hello and welcome, Gary.

GARY FLEETWOOD: Good morning.
ANGELA CATTERNS: Perhaps you can explain to the listeners a bit
better than I can how the sport of practical shooting works.

GARY FLEETWOOD: You're correct in your intro there, the sport does
involve timed events and competitors start at a given stationary point.
On the whistle, they will move from a position to another position down
the range, and when they get to the next firing position they'll engage
targets and then either reholster or move to another target or to
another area and again fire at other targets.
Normally it's the person who competes in the quickest time and gets the
best score will be determined the winner. And, of course, that's one
particular stage, and during the competition they will do maybe three or
four different stages. So it's an event that has huge popularity in
Australia and overseas. We sent some 47 Australians to the world
championships in South Africa two years ago, and we've got some 5,000 to
6,000 people across Australia shooting IPSC at the moment - yes, very
popular sport.

ANGELA CATTERNS: It sounds like a sport that mimics the guerrilla
warfare or the actions of police undertaking special operations. Is
that right?

GARY FLEETWOOD: No, it's not really. I was a serving police officer in
South Australia for some 12 years and I was involved in their Special
Task and Rescue Force. The way that IPSC people move along a range or
whatever has very little to do with the tactics involved by specialist
police forces. The sport first kicked off in Australia in 1977 with our
first national championships in Adelaide, and has been held every year.
I've read some of the rhetoric from the Greens' Lee Rhiannon, and
certainly they're very nervous about this sport. But it's a very safe
sport and is popular amongst Australians. It poses no threat at all to
the Australian community.

ANGELA CATTERNS: Gary, you use real guns obviously - and real
bullets?
GARY FLEETWOOD: Real bullets, yes. That's what we get licences for.
That's what we get filtered through the $53 million Crimtrack system for
and that's what the Police Commissioner signs off for when he gives us a
licence, after a 28-day waiting period, checks and probationary checks
in pistol clubs. So there is a huge array of checks and balances that
pistol shooters go through, and once these new laws are introduced,
there will be even more checks and balances that pistol shooters will go
through before they can take possession of a handgun.

ANGELA CATTERNS: But it's a 45-calibre pistol that you'd like to
use, is that right?
GARY FLEETWOOD: That's right, in IPSC the event has a ballistic- -
ANGELA CATTERNS: Sorry, IPSC - what's that?
GARY FLEETWOOD: International Practical Shooting Confederation.
ANGELA CATTERNS: Yes.
GARY FLEETWOOD: There is a component where the competitor is rewarded
for firing a larger calibre handgun than the person who fires a smaller
one - the theory being that the larger calibre handgun is more difficult
to control with the recoil. So if the person chooses to use that gun,
then he'll be rewarded for that effort. So we need above 38, up to 45,
for us to be competitive in regards to the international rules. Now
we've got two teams already selected for the Oceania Games in New
Zealand, in Hamilton, and one of those teams at this stage are waiting
with bated breath as to see whether they're going to be allowed to have
above 38 calibre so they can compete. And Mr Howard's promise on the 24
October 2002 that international competitors shall not be compromised
certainly hasn't borne fruit at this stage.

ANGELA CATTERNS: I see. So what is it - anything over 38 calibre
is going to be part of the nationwide handgun buyback?

GARY FLEETWOOD: That's right. Mr Howard's recommended only two shooting
disciplines - one's called metallic silhouette and another one's called
single action shooting. What we're pursuing is the inclusion of
obviously IPSC. Now, if we don't get IPSC, then certainly our ability
to hold world championships in this country and for our people to go
overseas and compete internationally will be non-existent. And that's
the results of these decisions.

ANGELA CATTERNS: So I understand Bob Carr wants an exemption for
your sport, from these new nationwide firearm laws. Is that the case?
And what about the current Police Minister of New South Wales?

GARY FLEETWOOD: Well, I've read the article in this morning's Daily
Telegraph and they make it quite clear there that a spokesman for Mr
Watkins said that Mr Carr in no way supports the event specifically, but
what he's doing, because of the push to get it into the Olympics, is
offering his support for it on that basis. So we've still got a long way
to go, I feel, to get this push through. But I'm in Melbourne this
morning and the Police Ministers' Council meeting here today and
tomorrow, I believe, so I'll certainly be around the corridors offering
advice and any support I can for this shooting competition.

ANGELA CATTERNS: So is that why you're there are the Police
Minister's Forum (sic)?
GARY FLEETWOOD: Absolutely.
ANGELA CATTERNS: I see. And do you have any indication of which
way they'll swing on the matter?
GARY FLEETWOOD: I know Mr Howard's very strong on this. I've spoken to
people in the Commonwealth and they are adamant that they won't be
changing their position on it. One must remember, however, that COAG is
a group of people, it's a group of the states and the Commonwealth.
It's not just the Commonwealth running the show. I would hope that some
of the state Premiers would see the logic in allowing licensed sporting
shooters to go about their business, especially when we we were in Mr
Howard's speech again on the 24th that international competition would
not be compromised - and quite clearly if IPSC is knocked out because of
the calibre issue, then it will have been compromised.

ANGELA CATTERNS: Where do you play this practical shooting?
GARY FLEETWOOD: Well, we certainly don't play it- -
ANGELA CATTERNS: I'm sorry - compete?
GARY FLEETWOOD: Where we compete - on approved pistol ranges around the
country. And there again even the issue of shooting ranges, they have
be an approved range. When people go to these ranges, they can only
shoot the events that they've got the handgun licensed to them for. And
if they're found with the handgun in another situation than what's
determined on their licence, then they're for huge penalties and loss
of licence and loss of handgun - so very strictly controlled.

ANGELA CATTERNS: I get the impression it's fairly big
internationally this sport, Gary?
GARY FLEETWOOD: Yes, it is big internationally, and it's- -
ANGELA CATTERNS: And you're hoping to see it part of the
Olympics?
GARY FLEETWOOD: Well, we are. As you talk about BMX bike riding, I
guess everyone to his own sport - and we are as passionate about this
sport as supporters of AFL. I'm a keen Adelaide Crows supporter. It's
just the passion in it, and all of us in Australia - we all pursue our
own sports and our own pastimes. And I can see no reason, provided that
we meet community standards and safety, and we've got the confidence of
our fellow Australians in what we do, then we should be allowed to go
about our sporting pastime.

ANGELA CATTERNS: All right, Gary, thank you for your time this
morning. Gary Fleetwood, who's executive director of the Australian
Sporting Shooters Association, and also a former national champion in
this sport of practical shooting.