| 404bearslayer |
| (.300 member) |
| 22/11/09 11:01 AM |
Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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Since I have very much enjoyed to have a look at other member's doubles, I took some pictures of my own and hope to return the favor this way. The engraving was not easy to capture with my little digital camera, but it came out alright in the end, I hope. Let's see whether the picture links work ... .
| ArnoldB |
| (.300 member) |
| 22/11/09 02:06 PM |
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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Nice rifle 404.
How come in the first picture it's got the hand detachable lock lever in and in the others just a normal lockplate pin?
| 404bearslayer |
| (.300 member) |
| 22/11/09 02:15 PM |
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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Thank you for the compliment.
The question with the detachable lock lever is easily answered: The first picture was taken right after I got the gun, the others today. The detachable lever has the potential to get caught in clothing, so I replaced it with the pin. The gun came with both.
| ArnoldB |
| (.300 member) |
| 22/11/09 02:41 PM |
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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Good choice to for choosing a non leather covered pad.
| baileybradshaw |
| (.333 member) |
| 22/11/09 02:41 PM |
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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Stunning rifle. Do you know who did the engraving? Griffnee' perhaps?
Either way, that is top shelf.
| crkennedy1 |
| (.375 member) |
| 22/11/09 02:57 PM |
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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An amazing double indeed! Will you dare to ever shoot it?
| 404bearslayer |
| (.300 member) |
| 22/11/09 04:12 PM |
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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Arnold: Yes, I did not want the leather-covered pad for the obvious reason - slippage. H&H did not like the idea at first but ordered a Kick-EEZ magnum pad for testing themselves in the end. It makes shooting the gun very enjoyable. And I think it does not look too bad either.
Bailey: Yes, it is Griffnee - I have always liked his 'grotesque' style. Unfortunately the dragon on the belly of the action does not come across in my picture as good as it really looks - for me, that is the highlight. The picture of the sideplates comes close, however. It was extremely hard to capture how the engraving really comes across as it is multilayered, yet plays together very well. My local gunsmith, who is Ferlach trained, remarked that he also used a special technique in the lower layers to eliminate glare (for hunting purposes). And in deed, from a little distance on, the engraving is non-reflective.
crkennedy: I have already shot it to check for regulation. Even with the scope, for which it was not regulated (I installed my own after getting it anyhow), I got groups at 50 meters (55 yards) that averaged 1 inch (both barrels / 4 shots off tripod sticks). Best group was one ragged hole. The gun loves the lot of Federal Ammo I bought. So it needs to be shot!
Also had an outing already at the biggest German 'shooting cinema'. In case you are not familiar with this: We do lots of driven shoots in Germany, hence shooting at running game. These cinemas show movies of (mostly) running boar at which you shoot with regular ammo at distances from 30 to 60 yards, depending on the cinema. A computer calculates the appropriate lead that you need to take (smaller animals is the back of the screen are computed as needing more lead therefore). Well, after your shot (or a sequence, if so desired) you see where you have hit the animal. It is very realistic and a lot of fun. Well, this new cinema I went to has a 30 by 15 feet screen, so after I asked them for 'Africa' movies, there appeared a life-size elephant from the left - boom, headshot, perfect hit. The gun also moved into the faster targets (like running zebra) as by its own. I did not expect it to work that well - however the gun has the absolute same measurements as my H&H shotgun so I could shoot it like a shotgun, without aiming, as the sights line up without the need to adjust when I mount the gun.In 10 days I am off the Austria for a driven shoot at boar/red stag/ fallow deer and mufflon. A .470 is a bit overkill for that, but I can think of no better training for Africa, which will I do next year.
| rigbymauser |
| (.400 member) |
| 22/11/09 07:29 PM |
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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Quote:
In 10 days I am off the Austria for a driven shoot at boar/red stag/ fallow deer and mufflon. A .470 is a bit overkill for that, but I can think of no better training for Africa, which will I do next year.
If that rifle were mine, I would take every opponunity to use it on all hunts and not worry about the the word "overkill". A gun like yours and Baileys ( Royal .375Flanged) are to be enjoyed in every moment a chance arrises.
Thanks for sharing. Holland & Hollands doublerifles are knockouts.
CptCurl
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| (.450 member) |
| 23/11/09 12:00 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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This is just a stunning rifle. Thank you for posting the photos and details about shooting it.
The shooting cinema sounds great. I had never heard of anything like that being available. I wish we could have something like that here in the US.
When was this rifle built? What scope do you have on it? For every answer there are just more questions when something as lovely as this is spread before us.
Curl
| 9.3x57 |
| (.450 member) |
| 23/11/09 12:58 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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Fascinating choice of features, .404. What makes these guns so interesting to me is just that; they are YOURS {or Mike's, etc}. Your choices say alot about your interests which obviously include shooting! Always interesting to me are the choices made by each fellow who can have such a gun built.
Curl, that idea does sound fun, doesn't it? All these Euro sorts have me wanting to lay out a moving target range hear on the ranch. Alas, no indoor cinema, tho THAT idea sounds like a lot of 100% pure fun!
| 404bearslayer |
| (.300 member) |
| 23/11/09 02:40 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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CptCurl & 9.3x57:
As for the shooting cinemas: To my knowledge they only exist in Germany (and one or two in Austria). Blaser runs one in his factory annex, for example. It is still a cottage industry even here, there are not many. The reason why you do not find them elsewhere is probably that they are very expensive (appr. 120 Euros = $ 200 an hour, although that is per group, not per person). Add to that the cost of ammunition, on the last session I shot 100 rounds in an hour. Also, you need a caliber that can swallow that rate of fire - the guns get red-hot: Old, rather slow military calibers (8x57) or African ones (9.3x62) are OK to heat up that much. Fast overbore calibers, like .300 RUM, which are so popular in the US right now will burn out the forcing cone in no time. Then, as we have always done shooting at running game, virtually all our guns have detachable scopes and are balanced for off-hand shooting. A Remingtom 700 with match barrel and fixed high-power scope will NOT work for that. You need to shoot over iron sights, aimpoint, or with a light low-power scope (like a 1-6). It also is not easy at first at all. As hunters' education is mandatory here, we get our license with training in shooting at running boar targets (pulled target) already - so we have a starting point. Even so, most hunters shy away from practicing or shooting that way as it takes quite a while to master it. Most can absolutely not do it. If you are good at skeet and have the right gun, you will pick it up quickly, however.
Here is a link to one: That is one with the older, small screen, but you will get the idea: http://www.mszu.de/schiesskino.html I one I went to lately has a big cinema screen, but their website does not show it well.
As for the when the gun was built - it is brand new. The scope I ended up putting on it is a Swarovski Z6i 1-6 x24 EE (extended eye relief). The eye relief on that scope is so big that I could install the scope just so that the gun maintained its original balance, which explains why it regulates with the scope as good as over iron sights. The scope that was on before (Zeiss) destroyed the balance of the gun, and you could only use that scope with the right barrel. H&H were quite surprised when I sent them a two-barrel target that was shot with the new scope.
Folllowing is a picture of the gun with the mounted scope, to show that a double can look quite elegant with it as long as the scope does not sit to far backwards (as most do, because of limited eye relief). Furthermore, the best group I shot with that scope, standing, off modern 'African stick' tripod which I modified, so that the V-notch doesn't wiggle anymore, also eliminated vibration and slippage by wrapping all parts with sticky self-adhesive electrical tape - makes for a rock-solid support (see group).
Still new to posting pictures via links, let's see how that works.
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/7300/img0466l.jpg
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/9087/55ybothbarrels.jpg
| 9.3x57 |
| (.450 member) |
| 23/11/09 03:04 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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Thanks, .404!
One of the reasons doubles have not held much sway over me is the mediocre accuracy associated with many of them.
I guess to some degree I subscribe to Colonel Townshend Whelen's oft-repeated statement that "only accurate guns are interesting".
Well, Herr .404, Sein Doppel ist sehr interessant! Ausgezeichnet!
| 500Nitro |
| (.450 member) |
| 23/11/09 03:08 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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9.3
I think doubles are like Bolt Action rifles.
Most shoot, some don't - and some good guns don't shoot because of the owner / shooter not using the correct ammo
OR not shooting Double's well.
It took me a while to get used to them.
| JabaliHunter |
| (.400 member) |
| 23/11/09 03:52 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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I have heard of these 'cinemas' - I think someone told me there was a huge one in Berlin. Do you know if there are any a bit closer to the UK, Hamburg for example or anywhere in NW Germany? Would be a cool trip for a weekend by car!
Beautiful rifle by the way!!
| peter |
| (removed) |
| 23/11/09 04:16 AM |
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jabali
if you allready consider northern germany, then go to denmark
http://www.korsholm.dk/skydearena.html
http://www.nystrom-krabbe-as.dk/
best
peter
| ArnoldB |
| (.300 member) |
| 23/11/09 04:36 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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http://www.pletsers.be/nl/schietkino.php
They got one to, bit closer to the Uk.
| 404bearslayer |
| (.300 member) |
| 23/11/09 05:16 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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Jabalihunter,
I found I good one in the area you wanted (near Paderborn in the NW of Germany): www.jagdkino.de The website is in English also, so that might help. The one in Berlin is not known to me, but probably part of the DEVA shooting complex. The one that ArnoldB mentioned (Belgium) looks good as well.
500 Nitro: I agree. Correct ammunition is the first step, if it fits the gun, then most modern barrels shoot extremely accurate. If not, working on the stock / properly cleaned /maintained barrels will usually do the trick.
With rather slow nitro express calibers the above mentioned is not even a big issue: Slow calibers with heavy bullets are almost immune to variations in powder load and bullet weight. I tested several loads in my .404. Whatever I brewed up with 350 and 400 grain bullets shot at virtually the same point of impact (all groups combined appr. 1 inch at 100 m, only a 280 grain drive band bullet at extreme speed had a different point of impact). So, if the single barrel groups are already small, then a two barrel group can also be very small, especially at the slow .470 speed of 2150 f/s - it simply does not heat up the barrel as quickly as say, a .375 so the first 4 shots should not warp the barrel-bundle too much. Therefore, most bigger groups shot from doubles are probably shooter's error. Looking at the recoil pads that I see on most doubles I am not surprised - you can only shoot a heavy-recoil gun well if it is not painful. Most people would shoot magnums a lot better if they installed a proper pad.
| 500Nitro |
| (.450 member) |
| 23/11/09 06:41 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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404
Yes, I tend to agree. most bg bores are easy to reload for
and they are shooters error.
I managed to work out a simple, easy to put together
standing rest PLUS and aiming point on a target that
made aiming easy and that really improved being able
to evaluate how well guns were shooting.
I use a PAST Recoil pad but would prefer to use a Limbsaver
shoulder pad or a Limbsaver recoil pad on the guns. I have one on my big bore bolt action that makes it a pussy to shoot.
| 404bearslayer |
| (.300 member) |
| 23/11/09 06:57 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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500 Nitro: If you use either a Kick-EEZE or a Limbsaver of a about 1 inch thickness, then you will need no shoulder pad. Most people have really no idea what kind of difference those pads make. The are worlds apart from the old Pachmayrs. I can shoot my .470 with just a t-shirt (have done that) all day long and will have at no point any kind of pain in the shoulder (same for shooting seated). It is such a cheap and simple solution to recoil issues like shoulder pain and flinching that I do not understand that more people use those pads.
| 500Nitro |
| (.450 member) |
| 23/11/09 07:07 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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Yes, I agree.
I just can't be bothered replacing some pads with Limbsavers,
plus I purchased the shoulder strap on before I knew about Limbsavers and that works fine for me.
But yes, those Limbsver / Kick Eez recoil pads work wonders.
I import and Distribute Limbsaver recoil pads over here.
| 404bearslayer |
| (.300 member) |
| 23/11/09 11:31 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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9.3x57:
Vielen Dank für das Kompliment auf Deutsch, Herr 9.3x57
| 9.3x57 |
| (.450 member) |
| 23/11/09 02:07 PM |
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Quote:
Vielen Dank für das Kompliment auf Deutsch, Herr 9.3x57
Bitte Meinherr.
.404, please post some pix of your hunts with your rifle!
+1 on Limbsavers, too. Great product!
| 404bearslayer |
| (.300 member) |
| 24/11/09 10:09 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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9.3x57: Will do my best with pictures and will be able to provide some if my local authorities finally get around to add my .470 to my EU Firearms license. Without it, I will have to leave the .470 in Germany for the planned driven shoot in Austria
. Our gun laws have become even more stringent after the latest school shooting here, so these guys are drowning in work. What used to take 15 minutes now takes months.By the way, found another really nice group from a double (9.3x74) here on the forum, which should convince you about the inherent accuracy of doubles. Like the group that I have posted, it was shot with a scope at 50 meters. The seemingly poor accuracy of doubles is also a product of shooting over iron sights. While many have eye problems to begin with (me too), the typical DR express sights are not set up for precision shooting to begin with. Furthermore, the typical front bead is extremely prone to be 'read' incorrectly depending on the position of the sun. Light that hits you sideways towards the end of the day is especially tricky.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/Othello041990/GroupementExpresslunette1.jpg
| mehulkamdar |
| (.416 member) |
| 25/11/09 04:32 AM |
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404bearslayer,
Many of us do not have guns that are anywhere near as beautiful, so may we just congratulate you on your impeccable choice and superb taste instead of posting pictures of our guns?
As the official pesterer for pictures on this forum, I must thank you for sharing pictures of your fantastic rifle over here. And here's wishing you good hunting with your masterpiece!
| 404bearslayer |
| (.300 member) |
| 25/11/09 06:35 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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Mehul,
thank you for the compliments. I like to have a look at nice guns myself, that's why I posted it. However, pure working guns can have allure as well, like the Heym Professional, so please post yourself!
As I've been asked to post hunting pictures, and cannot offer some in connection with my H&H yet, I take the opportunity here to post pictures of the bear I shot this spring. Was not shot with a double, but at least with a classic Nitro Express caliber (.404). I was quite lucky as an 8.5 ft European bear is a bit unusual. Was shot in Dracula's backyard (Transylvania).
| Mike_Bailey |
| (.400 member) |
| 25/11/09 06:52 AM |
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Now that is a WOW !! magic, best, Mike
| 404bearslayer |
| (.300 member) |
| 25/11/09 07:41 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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Thanks, Mike. A bear hunt does in deed have something magic, archaic, about it. From first shot to when he fell (after the forth shot) seemed like an eternity, as if time itself was stretched. But in reality, recalling what took place, it all happened in about 10 seconds.
| 500Nitro |
| (.450 member) |
| 25/11/09 07:47 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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404
It's interesting that you say that - " From first shot to when he fell (after the forth shot) seemed like an eternity, as if time itself was stretched."
I totally agree with you - I have noticed when being charged
that things seem to take a hell of a lot longer !!!
Almost like in slow motion !!!
| 404bearslayer |
| (.300 member) |
| 25/11/09 08:03 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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... the good thing is that one seems to be able to act quickly, even though the situation itself is slowing down. It's a bit like in the movie 'Matrix'.
| 500Nitro |
| (.450 member) |
| 25/11/09 08:14 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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404
Yes, absolutely.
| Anonymous |
| (Unregistered) |
| 25/11/09 10:21 AM |
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That is a beautiful Holland & Holland, congratulations.
| 404bearslayer |
| (.300 member) |
| 26/11/09 11:53 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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hanks General,
it is in deed a beautiful gun, but what surprised me most is how well it shoots. I have once read in an article that H&H shoot and adjust a Royal double over several months to eliminate tension and sources of warping in the gun and to make it shoot consistently under varying conditions (especially heat). The authors of the article did test that claim and shot the gun from ice cold to very hot (preheated by radiators) and did find out that, unlike other doubles they had tested, the H&H proved to be immune at whatever change in temperature was thrown at it.
I understood this to mean that it is 'regulated' to minimize warping of the barrels, rather then being regulated to a specific warping profile that a certain type of ammunition might produce. That would of course mean that the gun should shoot well with about any ammunition at any speed (within reason). Well, put it to the test today with a couple of handloads. In deed, same point of impact, same precision as with my Federal factory loads (which was the 'official' regulating load). My factory loads (Federal / Trophy Bonded Bear Claw) clocked 2172 f/s, while a load with GS Custom solid ran at 2220 f/s, for example. No difference whatsoever. I just loaded for the energy level I wanted - done. After shooting some other loads, picked up the still hot gun, and did two unsupported off-hand shots with the GSC bullets at a buffalo-head silhouette at 50 meters - hit square in the middle and grouped a tad under 2 inches. Couldn't be happier.
For people who are interested in it: I will post .470 loads with GSC FN and Hornady DGX bullets in the doubles / nitro express reloading forum.
| 9.3x57 |
| (.450 member) |
| 26/11/09 12:57 PM |
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Quote:
Transylvanian bear...
Ach du Lieber!
Heilige Wehrwölfe!!
.404, that is a big bear!
I've killed 9 bear here. None very big, tho one gave me a fight and died at my feet, with my son's help.
Your hunt would indeed be a wondrous hunt. THANKS for posting!
My son is home from school and walked by the computer and saw your ring-necked Dracula Bear and said...."Where was that shot??? Those trees look like ours!"
Wieder danke sehr.
| 404bearslayer |
| (.300 member) |
| 26/11/09 01:50 PM |
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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You're welcome,
you fight with the bear sounds like true father/son quality time
.
| 9.3x57 |
| (.450 member) |
| 27/11/09 12:56 AM |
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Quote:
You're welcome,
you fight with the bear sounds like true father/son quality time
PM sent.
| Der_Jaeger |
| (.375 member) |
| 27/11/09 02:40 AM |
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Wow! Der ist ein unglaublicher schauender Bär! Definitiv würden eine angemessene trophäe und er eine schöne Wolldecke bilden!
Ja?
Congrats on that once-in-a-lifetime Ursus Horribilus!
| 404bearslayer |
| (.300 member) |
| 27/11/09 04:30 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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Danke, Jäger
I'll answer in English as most people here are probably not too firm in German: As for the trophy, I have ordered a full, life-size mount, standing at his full height of 2.5 meters (8.5 f). After the first hit, he rose with a terrifying roar, this is what the mount will show. With a bit of luck, I get the mount before Christmas, maybe I'll post a picture when he's here.
| bwananelson |
| (.400 member) |
| 29/11/09 10:28 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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sweet gun and nice bear i like the collar of blonde on the bear and i notice the claws are different what is their main food source if they are not diggers.great pictures and that gun again so so sweet
| 404bearslayer |
| (.300 member) |
| 29/11/09 10:54 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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Thanks Bwana,
from what we hear about our European bears, in the south they eat sheep, raid bee hives, and devour Romanians on occasion (they got most, around 7000 brown bears in the Carpatian mountains). In Sweden they seem to prefer moose hunters and berry pickers... . Swedish forrest service did an areal photo shoot in Lapland recently. Upon checking the pictures they found out that 5 female berry pickers were surrounded by 25 bears. Those, who could be identified later, had no idea about that at the time and one of them fainted when told about it.
| 4seventy |
| (Sponsor) |
| 29/11/09 08:31 PM |
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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Awesome rifle, and bear!
That's one sweet Holland for sure.
Thanks for showing us.
| armbar |
| (.300 member) |
| 30/11/09 12:53 PM |
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404:
I've wanted to comment on your wunderbar rifle for a while now, I just didn't know what to say. I still don't. It's just beautiful! I keep coming back to this thread to look at it.
And now you add a bear to it. Very cool.
How big of an area did the bear come from? Here in NA they are pretty much restricted to fairly remote areas.
Again, thanks for posting.
Armbar.
| armbar |
| (.300 member) |
| 30/11/09 01:03 PM |
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BTW.....
I know you said the rifle is new, did you order it yourself?
Armbar.
| 404bearslayer |
| (.300 member) |
| 01/12/09 06:12 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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Thanks, 4seventy & Armbar,
the main distribution area of those bears in Romania is the mountain ranges, mainly in the north of the country, all else is pretty much either urban or flat farmland without any kind of cover. So this bear came from a pretty remote area also. There they are fairly concentrated, however. On driven shoots for boar, one can have a shot at bear quite often as well. Not without risk, however. When I was there, I was told that a hunter left his position during a drive to admire his kill. A bear happened to come along and took half his scalp off with his paw before being shot by another hunter who happened to have this scene within his line of fire. Not a very smart guy - you never leave your position during a drive anyhow, as there is a good chance that other hunters might kill you by accident.
Armbar: The gun was in not commissioned by me, if that's what you mean. I own a H&H shotgun as well, which was commissioned by me a couple of years ago, and the time it takes until it's done is simply too long for me. Always wanted a H&H double, so I simply waited until one came along with features I liked and which would fit me. Before I bought the double, there was a lengthy exchange with H&H in comparing the double with my H&H shotgun measurements and balance (which was fitted to me at the time). As the double was set up for a scope, it had a straight stock 'shotgun style' design to begin with. Anyhow, with the fitting of the Kick-EEZ pad the entire gun happened to be an exact duplicate in measurements and balance to my fitted H&H shotgun. And in deed, I can can shoot it instinctively, like a shotgun. I can mount the gun, point and shoot to where I look (with disregard to the iron sights) and I am on target. So, the gun was made for me, after all
. I was lucky, of course, in that everything was the way I wanted. Would not have bought it if the balance / measurements would have been off for me. A double only really comes to life if you can shoot it like shotgun. For me that is the real advantage over bolt-actions - that they swing into the target naturally. A single barrel gun simply cannot do that.
| 4seventy |
| (Sponsor) |
| 01/12/09 09:03 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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Quote:
A double only really comes to life if you can shoot it like shotgun. For me that is the real advantage over bolt-actions - that they swing into the target naturally. A single barrel gun simply cannot do that.
I totally agree!
| mckinney |
| (.400 member) |
| 01/12/09 10:10 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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404,
The Holland rifle is stunning and I think we are all grateful that the great London firms are still in business and still capable of producing these magnificent weapons (probably even better now than in the so called 'golden age', but don't want to start an argument!)
The bear is also very impressive. I am curious what kind of .404 rifle you used on the bear hunt? I am guessing either an original Mauser Type A or an English bolt rifle built on an original Oberndorf action. Would love to see photos of that rifle as well.
Incidentally, I lived in Romania (Bucharest) for 4 years during the late 90's early 2000's and passed through Transylvania many times by car, but had no idea bear hunts such as these were possible. I have many fond memories of the country and particularly the women - it is a great place.
Cheers
McKinney
| 404bearslayer |
| (.300 member) |
| 01/12/09 12:55 PM |
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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Mckinney,
I also think their rifles and shotguns are better now, certainly since they started using CNC and modern steel. I have been in their factory a couple of years ago, and can confirm that they are still apt at their old craft, but have arrived in the 21st century at the same time. So, now we started the argument
.As you have driven through Transylvania, you know that it mostly consists of little villages and hamlets, and that there is not much besides flat farmland and the occasional monastery. In those parts, you will find no wildlife, just Romania's famous stray dogs. However, at the northern edge of that region are the Carpatian mountains, and they are full of wildlife - red stag, chamois, wolves, bears and so on. During communist times, only the dictator was allowed to hunt bears, and he is responsible for the high numbers. I had only been there for three days and saw 3 bears and a wolf.
The .404 was in deed a Mauser, but a modern one at that, a Mauser 03, which is a gun with exchangeable barrels, not that traditional. That is my main gun, I use it in 6.5x65, .300 WM and .404. The special thing about it is, that it is in my opinion currently the most accurate out-of-the-box hunting rifle, even though it is a system with exchangeable barrels. The .300 barrel is a match barrel, and I use it with a S&B PII 5-25x56 sniper scope and handloads with Berger bullets for long-range shooting. On occasion, I have benchrest shooters next to me at the range, with all their garb, 17 pound guns and high-tech rests, shooting 6mm BR and so on. So far, I have outshot them every time, just shooting from a sandbag, that's how good that gun is. The gun is stock, except for the fact that I hand-lap the barrels of all guns I own (also the H&H, which made her shoot a lot better). Therefore I have never taken a picture of the Mauser. However, I had upgraded the gun with really nice wood and have a picture with the bear where you can see that a bit. So here is another picture of the bear with my Mauser:
| 9.3x57 |
| (.450 member) |
| 01/12/09 02:09 PM |
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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.404:
Have you weighed your bear?
| 404bearslayer |
| (.300 member) |
| 02/12/09 12:41 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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Unfortunately we had no equipment for weighing him. The guide estimated him at between 350 -400 kg, so roughly 800 pounds. It took 8 people, me included, to pull him into a truck via ramp and ropes. That was quite some work and cost the the truck one of his doors in the back, which the bear took off the hinges when he slipped sideways at one point. So, he was certainly heavy!
| 9.3x57 |
| (.450 member) |
| 02/12/09 01:07 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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The weight of a bear is certainly hard to estimate. And they are very hard to manhandle, even the small ones. They are floppy and everything on a bear seems heavy! Pick one end up and the other end seems to weigh as much as the whole bear...
We have a scale here at the ranch we use from time to time. We have no bear of the size of yours around here. Well, almost none. There are a few grizzly that wander in and around my place here, but they are rare. Mostly we have the common black bear, and our blackies are generally small. I killed my 9th one this year {September} and my son also killed one. Yours pictured here is much larger than ours.
Are these Romanian bear ever hunted with hounds? Hunting bear with hounds is, I believe, my favorite form of hunting. Here in the mountains it demands much stamina from the hounds and hunters. Hunts always seem to go straight up both ways! Our bear gain in stamina what they lack in size and are incredible ridgerunners, and many hunts are finished with worn out dogs...absolutely worn out hunters, and no bear. They have amazing tenacity, endurance, and at times, aggression. They are very hard animals to predict.
Your .470 would get very heavy carrying on a bear hunt here as it is done running full speed up and down the mountains, very tough at times, and the poor gun would come out of it nicked, scratched, dented and forlorn! Houndsmans' guns are the worst looking bullet chuckers in the woods...
Of course, if you ever get over to these parts, such a hunt would be a great reason to commission Peter and the Rigby gang to build a very light medium bore double. Or something the houndsmen might not let you leave with...a double .444 Marlin...
I cannot think of a better rifle for such use here on our bear than a 3 kg double .444, as long as the hunter doesn't mind "battle scars" all over it when the hunt is done! Danke sehr für Seine Jaktgeschichte! Very interesting stuff!
| Ripp |
| (.577 member) |
| 02/12/09 01:30 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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404
Very beautiful firearm and great hunt. Looks like incredible country as well...congratulations on the hunt.
Have shot quite a few bears as well along with a 9ft brownie in Alaska---a guide once there told me brown bear hunting consists of 99% boredom with 1% shear panic...
Thanks again
Ripp
| 404bearslayer |
| (.300 member) |
| 02/12/09 02:03 AM |
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Re: Holland & Holland Royal Deluxe DR .470 NE
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9.3x57:
Hunting with hounds in the sense of search and chase is not legal in most parts of Europe, and not done on bear to my knowledge. It is is only legal to cause game to move with the aid of dog breeds that are slow enough not to be able to truly chase an animal. So, in Europe, it is limited to stalk, bait or driven shoot.
Ripp: Agree on the 99% boredom an 1% panic