CptCurl
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| (.450 member) |
| 14/04/08 11:50 AM |
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Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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At long last this is my Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE double rifle:
Curl
| Nakihunter |
| (.375 member) |
| 14/04/08 12:05 PM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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What an exquisite piece! I could just keep looking over the scroll engraving. It does not look like it has been used much. Thanks for sharing Rosco!
| JabaliHunter |
| (.400 member) |
| 14/04/08 12:13 PM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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What a beauty! You're a lucky man! Congratulations!
Great photos too
| Huvius |
| (.416 member) |
| 14/04/08 12:44 PM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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This is a great example of just about my all-time favorite double rifle!
If you ever decide to move it on, please let me know!!
| Marrakai |
| (.416 member) |
| 14/04/08 01:19 PM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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Bloody ripper, Curl! Marvellous! To find one in that condition, with all the toys still in the toybox, is a real treat! Congrats.
Test targets soon....?
| tinker |
| (.416 member) |
| 14/04/08 02:16 PM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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Curl-
I'm jealous.
I was on the phone with friends in Roanoke tonight talking about whitetail hunting.
I might be dropping you a note some time later on.
Get that thing running soon!
--Tinker
| dale |
| (.333 member) |
| 14/04/08 02:53 PM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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Curl,
Thanks for the photos, just outstanding! and my wife wonders why I live on this computer?
| gatsby |
| (.375 member) |
| 14/04/08 05:07 PM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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Curl,
A spectacular A.Henry! I am always amazed at all the minor details and engraving flourishes on these old guns. What is the year of manufacture 187-?
| 450_366 |
| (.400 member) |
| 14/04/08 06:55 PM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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I envy you, a very nice gun with the case to go with it.
| peter |
| (removed) |
| 14/04/08 07:05 PM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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outstanding curl
if the numbers are following a line it is made after my gun, so that puts it in the 1883-onwards year.
i agree with marrakai finding one with all the bells and whistles in the case is a godsend.
i hope your shoulder mends up quickly, so you can take your price shooting.
how much does it weigh ?
best regards
peter
| 4seventy |
| (Sponsor) |
| 15/04/08 08:18 PM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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Well Curl you've done it again, what a beauty!
What a find!
I'd like to compliment you also on that fine set of photos.
You have shot and presented those photographs very nicely indeed!
A rifle like that deserves a good home and I'm sure it now has one, and is in good hands.
Well done mate.
| MacNaughton360 |
| (.275 member) |
| 16/04/08 09:26 AM |
Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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Beautiful set!
What are the toys in the toybox?
I don't recognize everything.
MacNaughton360
| dnovo |
| (.333 member) |
| 16/04/08 09:53 AM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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Capt, you did it again. Remember, when this one needs a home like the other, you know where to call. I promise to tuck it in each night and give it love and affection. Dave
| Anonymous |
| (Unregistered) |
| 16/04/08 12:15 PM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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Isn't that a little cutie pie, very niiiice!
| mehulkamdar |
| (.416 member) |
| 20/04/08 12:22 AM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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Gosh, Cpt Curl, you are a man of impeccable taste and luck!
That is an absolutely beautiful rifle!Simply fantastic and thanks for sharing.
Very good hunting to you!
| rigbymauser |
| (.400 member) |
| 21/04/08 12:28 AM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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Jones screw-action, backaction hammer..way to go here.
Hey Cpt!
Please read jack Lotts articals from Gun Digest 1979 and 1985. Its a most.
Thanks for sharing
| Marrakai |
| (.416 member) |
| 21/04/08 10:37 PM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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Curl:
Regarding year of manufacture, my Alex Henry 20/.577 ULH DR (SN #5514) was finished on the 6th of November 1882. The only other AH .577 I have seen (also a 20/.577!) is SN #5860 which was finished in September 1885. It would seem likely that yours is very late 1880s or even into the '90s if the SNs were sequential. Do let us know if you send off for the journal extract.
BTW, both those rifles are very similar to yours, especially #5860 which left Australia in March 2001 and is now owned by Frank Findlow in the US. #5514 is a slightly higher grade, judging by the fully scroll-engraved sight-leaves and a few other minor details, but is rather down in condition compared with the other two (especially yours!).
Re-read the article on #5860 by Frank Findlow in the Summer 2005 Double Gun Journal while your shoulder readies itself for action!
"A Scottish Enigma: Alexander Henry's 20/.577 Express"
Apart from the slightly different chambering, it's your gun, mate!
| Nakihunter |
| (.375 member) |
| 22/04/08 11:04 AM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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I would like to know how this piece of art really shoots. Would you use regular BP or Pyrodex? How do you clean the bores? I am almost tempted to buy a nice BP DR if I cannot own an English NE DR.
Thanks for the info.
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CptCurl
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| (.450 member) |
| 22/04/08 11:34 AM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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Marrakai,
I just re-read the Findlow article you mentioned. Thanks for reminding me of that article.
The Henry rifles are fascinating. It would be a real treat if you would photograph yours and put it on display here at NE.com.
Best,
Curl
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CptCurl
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| (.450 member) |
| 27/04/08 03:15 AM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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First two cartridges.
Try-out load:
65.0 grains IMR4198
Three .375" 24 gauge felt wads
570 grain paper patched lead bullet cast from original mould
WLR primer
Bertram .577 3" brass trimmed to 2.75"
Curl
| tinker |
| (.416 member) |
| 27/04/08 10:34 AM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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Looks great Curl!
Hopefully you'll have a target similar to the one in my sig line to show us once you're ready to shoot the new rifle!
--Tinker
| Nakihunter |
| (.375 member) |
| 27/04/08 12:41 PM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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Quote:
First two cartridges.
Try-out load:
65.0 grains IMR4198
Three .375" 24 gauge felt wads
570 grain paper patched lead bullet cast from original mould
WLR primer
Bertram .577 3" brass trimmed to 2.75"
Curl
CaptCurl, is this a Nitro for black load? I would be really keen to see what you achieve. I might have to settle for a Black Powder DR, in which case a 500 sounds great.
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CptCurl
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| (.450 member) |
| 28/04/08 02:37 AM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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Range Report - April 26, 2008:
Loading these first cartridges for my rifle really got my emotions rolling. When I loaded them I didn't intend to shoot them right away, and thought I would let my poor shoulder heal a couple more weeks. But holding those rounds in my hand was magnetism I couldn't resist. I got my courage up, and off to the range I went.
Ross Seyfried stated the formula for substituting IMR4198 for black powder. His rule is 40% to 46% of the weight of the original black powder charge. The chart of Eley ballistics reproduced in the back of Graeme Wright's book shows the .577 2 3/4" round loaded with 160 grains of black powder behind a 520 grain bullet yielded 1725 fps at 10 tons pressure. My bullet is a tad heavier.
40% of 160 would be 64 grains of IMR4198. 46% would be 73.6 grains. Those should be the approximate limits of loads using IMR4198, although I'm mindful of my heavier bullet. Thus I decided on my try-out load of 65 grains.
I anticipated this load would be on the light side. My prediction to myself was that the barrel groups would be spread apart 4 to 5 inches, and as it turned out my prediction was just about spot on.
I fired four rounds - two rights and two lefts at 50 yards. The result was two nice groups spread 4 inches apart and punching the target just to the right and just to the left of the base of the bullseye. Obviously the rifle is asking for a bit more horsepower. Not bad results for the first try!
The shoulder? That's another matter. A trying experience by any measure. Let's put it this way: There was no damage done, but I'm not running out to the range this afternoon to try 66, 67, 68, 69, and 70 grain loads as I would under normal circumstances. Maybe next week.
Curl
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CptCurl
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| (.450 member) |
| 28/04/08 02:48 AM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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Nakihunter,
Yes, this is nitro-for-black loading. I am substituting IMR4198 with appropriate wads, for the original black powder charge. The object is to duplicate the exterior ballistics of the original load, thus achieving proper regulation, with the use of smokeless (nitro) powder.
Done properly, it is documented that the nitro-for-black loading results in substantially less internal pressure. Graeme Wright does not report pressure tests for the .577 2 3/4" BPE. However, his pressure tests on the .577 3" BPE demonstrated that he could duplicate the ballistics of the original nitro-for-black factory load (pressure of 10 tons) at only 7.8 tons pressure using Varget and 8.9 tons using H4198.
Curl
| JabaliHunter |
| (.400 member) |
| 28/04/08 03:15 AM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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Oh how frustrating! I hope that shoulder gets back to normal soon. Positive thinking! At least you have a great project to help with that...
| bigdog |
| (.375 member) |
| 30/04/08 11:59 PM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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Great rifle and great pictures. Thanks for sharing it with all of us.
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CptCurl
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| (.450 member) |
| 30/06/08 12:38 PM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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Quote:
Curl:
Regarding year of manufacture, my Alex Henry 20/.577 ULH DR (SN #5514) was finished on the 6th of November 1882. The only other AH .577 I have seen (also a 20/.577!) is SN #5860 which was finished in September 1885. It would seem likely that yours is very late 1880s or even into the '90s if the SNs were sequential. Do let us know if you send off for the journal extract.
BTW, both those rifles are very similar to yours, especially #5860 which left Australia in March 2001 and is now owned by Frank Findlow in the US. #5514 is a slightly higher grade, judging by the fully scroll-engraved sight-leaves and a few other minor details, but is rather down in condition compared with the other two (especially yours!).
Re-read the article on #5860 by Frank Findlow in the Summer 2005 Double Gun Journal while your shoulder readies itself for action!
"A Scottish Enigma: Alexander Henry's 20/.577 Express"
Apart from the slightly different chambering, it's your gun, mate!
Marrakai,
I've been pondering the question of when this rifle was made. Mind you, I haven't asked Dickson & MacNaughton. But I have noticed one thing: My rifle was proofed in London under the rules of 1875. Had it been proofed after 1887 it would say 577 EX instead of 25. That's a bit in conflict with Nigel Brown's chart, but he admits some doubt.
What's your read, mate?
Curl
| Marrakai |
| (.416 member) |
| 01/07/08 09:00 AM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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'Tis a puzzlement!
Today, we can only guess at the circumstances surrounding the serial-numbering of a firm's guns, and the length of time between manufacture and actual sale.
...until we peruse the journal entry!
Looks like a letter to the owners of the AH records is in the offing.
One thing: an e-mail or letter to Frank Findlow might shed some light on this, as I know he has trawled through the Henry journals looking for 20/.577 rifles, and has copied many pages. He is also interested in the .577 x 2 3/4 Express, and would be delighted to hear of your acquisition I'm sure (with photos!)
Good luck mate.
| Oz |
| (.224 member) |
| 08/07/08 01:35 PM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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G'day Curl,
I'm looking at the grip cap and wondering if that's a trap in the centre and if so what's beneath it?
Cheers
Oz
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CptCurl
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| (.450 member) |
| 08/07/08 08:25 PM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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Oz,
Yes it is a trap gripcap. There's nothing in the compartment.
Not to worry, there are spare firing pins and other small parts in the little screw cap wood or bone container in the case.
Curl
| 400NitroExpress |
| (.400 member) |
| 09/07/08 03:40 PM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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Quote:
I've been pondering the question of when this rifle was made. Mind you, I haven't asked Dickson & MacNaughton. But I have noticed one thing: My rifle was proofed in London under the rules of 1875. Had it been proofed after 1887 it would say 577 EX instead of 25. That's a bit in conflict with Nigel Brown's chart, but he admits some doubt.
Yeah, proved before the 1887 rules executed, and Brown's table says 1890. He indicates that Henry's records seem more jumbled than most, but this kind of thing with British guns in general isn't at all odd. Even if the Day Book page for that rifle says 1890, it's obvious that it was proved well before then.
It was normal, and still is, for a year or two to pass between the date of proof (conducted when the gun is a long way from finished) and delivery. Even longer periods aren't that strange. For example, the legendary East African professional Philip Percival ordered a new pair of .450 No. 2s from Joseph Lang in 1927, which his family sold at Bonham's last year. The pair were assigned consecutive numbers from the current range when the order was received, and were delivered late that December. The rifles were built in 1907. I have a William Evans DR in my notes built in 1921, and delivered to the original owner in Bulawayo in 1948. A friend has another Lang DR, built 1923, assigned a number in 1946, and delivered in 1952 - by which time the cartridge it was chambered for was obsolete!
| Chasseur |
| (.375 member) |
| 09/07/08 07:01 PM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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Curly,
Beautiful rifle! Wow!
Glad you shot it, but don't push that shoulder too much.
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CptCurl
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| (.450 member) |
| 26/11/08 11:31 PM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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THIS NEWS JUST IN!
Curl's .577 draws blood!
Last Friday afternoon, armed with with his antique Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE, Curl finds luck. An 8 point white tail deer cautiously steps out of the brush. With a steady hand, Curl lets fly with his right barrel, and the buck is flattened to the ground. A brilliant one-shot kill at 83 yards. Venison for the table, and good reason to wonder when the Henry had last drawn blood.
The load: 74.0 gr IMR4198; Fed 215; Montana Precision Swaging 560 grain bullet, paper patched with 100% cotton bond; 3 - 3/8" 24 ga. felt wads; Bertram brass trimmed to 2.75". Velocity 1750 fps.
The stupid shit didn't have his camera with him.
Curl
| tinker |
| (.416 member) |
| 27/11/08 04:13 AM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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HAAA - HAAAA!!!
Wish I were there to share the moment with you.
Congratulations.
I'm glad it's first sneeze in the field brought you some dinner.
Cheers
Tinker
| peter |
| (removed) |
| 27/11/08 04:21 AM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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congratulations curl
dont worry about the camera, you will have plenty of other chances for a photoshoot.
you got the pictures in your mind, that is the most importent place anyway.
how is the shoulder holding up to the shooting ?
best
peter
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CptCurl
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| (.450 member) |
| 27/11/08 01:13 PM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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Thanks, guys.
I am really happy with the rifle. The successful hunt means a lot to me.
The shoulder is great. I really didn't think it would ever recover like it has. December 7 will be the anniversary of my injury. It's been a long year.
Best,
Curl
| Marrakai |
| (.416 member) |
| 27/11/08 01:39 PM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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Congratulations, my friend.
Alex Henry's hunting rifles certainly add an extra dimension to a modern hunt.
Marvelous stuff!
| bonanza |
| (.400 member) |
| 25/03/09 06:12 AM |
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.577 2 3/4" BPE
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Shot my 1890 A. Hartman .577 2.75" express today for the first time.
It's still in one piece. Probably this first time in 100 years.
I duplicated CaptCurl's start out load: 65gr IMR4198, three felt wads and 560 paper patched round nose.
It shot apart with the right bbl a bit higher.
I'll add one grain at a time until it comes together, or 74gr max.
This rifle has a 100 yd fixed sight so it will naturally shoot about 3" high.
Stay tuned.
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CptCurl
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| (.450 member) |
| 25/03/09 01:10 PM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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Bonanza,
We need to get together about paper patches. I can answer your questions about cutting patches and make it a lot easier for you. Really I need to show you. I don't think I can just do a verbal on it.
What was your velocity with the 65gr load of IMR4198?
As you increase velocity the groups will come down to the front bead.
Are you using the Montana bullet?
Curl
| bonanza |
| (.400 member) |
| 25/03/09 10:19 PM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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Roscoe,
I am using the Montana Precision swagged bullets from Midway. I did not have time to set-up my chronograph, but I reckon it was under 1600 fps.
I'll see how my schedule is next month so I can make a weekend trip up to WV.
Blair
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CptCurl
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| (.450 member) |
| 25/03/09 10:34 PM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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If you go to WV you won't find me! I'm in Western Virginia, not West Virginia. There's a big difference!
Yeah, we should put a shoot weekend on the calendar. You are less than 5 hours from me. An easy ride: I-77 north to I-81; I-81 north to U.S. 220 just beyond Roanoke; U.S. 220 north to I-64, and then just a short hop west on I-64 to my home, which is in sight of I-64. Only about 260 miles total.
Right now I'm without a chronograph also. In the last shooting session with my Henry the chrono got hit by one of the felt wads, and it shattered the front panel. Not a bullet, mind you, a wad. I sent it in for repairs and hope to have it back in another week or so.
In the future I'll put some type of shield in front of the chrono.
I have found the MPS bullet to be excellent. And lazy me, if I can buy it reasonably, I'll avoid the melting pot.
| bonanza |
| (.400 member) |
| 26/03/09 06:55 AM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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If you're going to West Virginia
Be sure not to wear flowers in your hair
If you're going to West Virgina
You're gonna meet some toothless people there
For those who come to West Virginia
Summertime will be a scary-time there
In the streets of West Virgina
Hillbilly people with dandruff in their hair
All across the nation such a strange vibration
West Virginians in slow motion
There's a whole generation with a new explanation
West Virginians in slow motion
For those who come to West Virginia
Be sure not to wear some flowers in your hair
If you come to West Virgina
Summertime will be a scary time there
| CFWs |
| (.224 member) |
| 26/03/09 11:48 PM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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Beautiful rifle, Curl.
You sir have the rifle of my dreams. Finding one in that condition is very difficult.
Congratulations!
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CptCurl
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| (.450 member) |
| 27/03/09 05:22 AM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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CFWs,
Thanks for the kindness. Yes, I chased that rifle several years before bringing it to bay.
Curl
| DarylS |
| (.700 member) |
| 10/12/14 03:42 AM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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Congratulations guys - Roscoe - why have I not seen this thread before today? Damn - well done old chap.
You must bring that lovely rifle (or some others) to PG next trip - well go out and shoot some 'chickens'.
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CptCurl
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| (.450 member) |
| 10/12/14 12:54 PM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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Daryl,
Thanks for your comments. Yes I would love to travel to Prince George and do hope to do it before the sun sets.
Best to you my friend,
Roscoe
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CptCurl
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| (.450 member) |
| 27/02/18 01:26 PM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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In reviewing this thread, now almost 10 years old, there is much speculation and conjecture concerning the date of completion of this rifle. I can now lay that to rest.
Not long ago I was given a copy of the original Henry record which shows this rifle was completed October 14, 1890 for His Highness, Sir Shivaji Rao Holkar, the Maharaja of Indore (Hokar State).
As mentioned in the other thread, Watson Brothers .577 Double Rifle my Henry .577 is now joined with a fabulous Watson Brothers .577 3" BPE.
They make a great pair!
Curl
| JefferyDenmark |
| (.300 member) |
| 28/11/18 08:07 PM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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Gentlemen
Great looking rifle.
I was lucky enough to get my fingers on a Gye & Moncgrieff in .577 2 3/4" BPE.
It is regulated for a 480 grn hollow wrapped bullet with 164 grns No 6. This is ingraved on the metal buttplate of the rifle - very cool feature.
I am interested in ANY information regarding this rifle and the bullet.
Hope it is OK to post this question here.
Best regards,
JefferyDenmark
| OahuKaneohe |
| (.275 member) |
| 04/12/18 02:48 PM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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According to Donald Dallas's book "Alexander Henry, Rifle Maker",
Serial # 6449 was completed on November 10, 1890 in caliber .577
| DarylS |
| (.700 member) |
| 05/12/18 04:31 AM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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Quote:
THIS NEWS JUST IN!
Curl's .577 draws blood!
Last Friday afternoon, armed with with his antique Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE, Curl finds luck. An 8 point white tail deer cautiously steps out of the brush. With a steady hand, Curl lets fly with his right barrel, and the buck is flattened to the ground. A brilliant one-shot kill at 83 yards. Venison for the table, and good reason to wonder when the Henry had last drawn blood.
The load: 74.0 gr IMR4198; Fed 215; Montana Precision Swaging 560 grain bullet, paper patched with 100% cotton bond; 3 - 3/8" 24 ga. felt wads; Bertram brass trimmed to 2.75". Velocity 1750 fps.
The stupid shit didn't have his camera with him.
Curl
Well done, Old Curl - sorry I missed this first time around.
Yes- I would expect that load might flatten a little buck.
Now, we need to try that beast on a moose!
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CptCurl
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| (.450 member) |
| 05/12/18 06:50 AM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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Wow! That hunt report is now more than 10 years old.
Would love to down a moose with it!
Curl
| DarylS |
| (.700 member) |
| 05/12/18 07:32 AM |
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Re: Alexander Henry .577 2 3/4" BPE
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LOL - I hadn't looked at the dates. Tell you what - next time I get a big bull draw, (draw's mid June) I'll let you know.
With no draw, we would have to go up to Ft. St. John - not a bad idea at that. Bring that thumper and done, or we could use my 14 bore?