Don't think I would want to tangle with a bull ele with his 45-70 setup.Ain't gonna happen.I value my life too much. I don't give a flip how much propaganda Garrett puts out.

For me, 500 NE, or maybe 470 NE for such a confrontation,, but a lesser cailiber shooting solids is just asking to get fatally charged.Don't want to be some Ele's "toe jelly" due to stupidity.