Your right Mickey, they are as good as any rifle with iron sights, but not for scoped long range work by comparison as some would have us believe..I would love a 7x57 rimmed double rifle for mule deer hunting in my back yard, the South Hills of Idaho...but it would limit my range factor, but hey it does the same thing with the 25-35 Win. carbine that usually hunt them with..It makes it a hunt not a shoot.