Just to be clear, I also think a "pistol" grip, and preferably a fairly fairly open one, is the only way to go on a heavy recoiling rifle. But I also think that the europeans might be on to something with their straight gripped lighter calibre and recoil driven boar and deer rifles. Seems more like shooting game birds than standing game to me.

On the balance issue, some like their shotguns to balance centrally like most H&H's seem to be some like the balance a wee bit further forward like most Purdeys seem to be but most of the double rifles I have handled have a bunch more weight forward than a decent shotgun. On the other hand my 10ga POS Spanish goose gun - with a very open pistol grip - performs very well with the balnce way forward like my double rifle and happens to weigh but one ounce less to boot.

Ray, I think your right about the damage shooting a straight gripped 470 would do. I'm not crazy enough to try to shoot a heavy kicker without the pistol grip. With sweaty hands its got to be like holding greased lightning.

JPK

PS; Mickey, I'll pass on the "bumper" info for the second finger to my brother. Thanks