Guys thanks for the advice on the fish oil. I have it in both hands , one knee and one ankel. It gets really bad at times when I can't hardly pick up a rifle, then sometimes not tood bad. It is amazing how fast it can move around from one joint to another. I am pretty f##ked when it is in both hands at one time. Captkurl, sounds like a plan on the short meeting in Virginia on date sent, look forward to seeing you.