| RLI |
| (.375 member) |
| 10/05/04 08:55 AM |
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Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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I thought I would post here as a Howdah is more related to a Double than a Handgun. I am curious to know if anyone has heard of a Howdah in modern calibres? My brother has read a article of a Howdah double in .405Win (he is mailing the article to me) and if wanting to make one today what actions and calibres are available? I know Double rifles in .45/70 can be made on Ruger O/U shotgun but as a Howdah may be to heavy? any suggestions?
RLI
| Gibbs505 |
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| 10/05/04 10:25 AM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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I would like to get a Howdah pistol in origional calibre!!
But I proberly could not afford one!!
NitroX
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| 10/05/04 10:25 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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Isn't it possible just to saw off the barrels off a Pedersoli and then fit new sights?
| 470Rigby |
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| 10/05/04 11:40 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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I saw a short barrelled nitro double rifle once; 16" barrels as I recall. It was described at a "Howdah Rifle", and close inspection did not reveal whether they had been lopped.
Does anybody have a view on whether this description could have been historically correct?
| RLI |
| (.375 member) |
| 11/05/04 10:35 AM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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Yes, I considered the Pedersoli but thinking of one with no hammers maybe built on a Webley & Scott, Greener or maybe Merkel action. The cost would be more than the Pedersoli I would think.
RLI
| DUGABOY1 |
| (.400 member) |
| 11/05/04 10:53 AM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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I was reminded that the ATF has no authority in Australia, so this post is to anyone inside the USA who is thinking of doing this! (read my follow up post) My advice to US citizens is, tread lightly here!
I think you are looking for a visit from the ATF, if you go about lopping off barrels of a double rifle shorter than 16", or building a pistol on a shotgun action, or building a pistol on any rifle or shotgun action. These are considered sawed offs by ATF, and will net you some time in the federal lock-up! Even if you make a double rifle on a shotgun action it can have barrels no shorther than 18", and must have an over all length of 26"! One that started out as a double rifle from the factory, cannot have barrels less than 16"!
Dangerous area, fellows, to even talk about, in public, and a definent problem to actually do!
Find yourself a good clean 577 Howah pistol, pay the price! It will be cheaper in the long run, I assure you!
| RLI |
| (.375 member) |
| 11/05/04 11:20 AM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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I would love a original Howdah but the price! and the Howdah if made out of a Shotgun action would have to be registered as a pistol/handgun which can be done in Australia by notifying the police of the alteration but you have to be a Gundealer to do this. I would presume if you want to make a shotgun into a handgun in the USA you would have to get ATF permission first in writing.
RLI
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NitroX
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| 11/05/04 02:21 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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Don't think the ATF has a whiff of a chance doing anything that concerns me in the least.
Of course a person would seek legal permission to alter a firearm, caibre, barrels etc before doing so, but I don't give a damn what the ATF think if they read it here as they are a complete irrelevancy to me.
I do wonder though with BS Aussie banning of large calibre pistols whether a .45 Pedersoli cut-back could be legally done or not? Also the legal justification? As it would be a hunting pistol and hunting with a pistol is not permitted maybe NE.com would need to form a Howdah Target shooting discipline. Maybe a cross between IPSC and game target shooting. Picture this - you are sitting in a mock howdah which wobbles quite a bit, wearing your pith helmet, carrying your favourite double rifle. Your howdah pistol is in a holster. A tiger target is charging you from close range. Your double having been expended, jammed, whatever (being a "junk" vintage Jeffrey, A&N, WR or H&H
), you need to draw the howdah pistol and shoot the tiger in a leathal area.Sounds like fun. Pity one can not do the real thing, what.
| RLI |
| (.375 member) |
| 11/05/04 03:08 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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I think I will look around for suitable actions and calibres and get prices but if I can not get a Howdah pistol I can get a original Howdah ! One is advertised on the Westley Richards site (does not include elephant !)for $9000 from memory........I will dream on.
RLI
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NitroX
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| 11/05/04 03:17 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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A very cheap possibility which would be easy to do. I WON'T comment on the legalities, anyone trying it would need to work it out for themself.
Take an older double shotgun. Shorten the barrels and the stock. Use two of these .45/70 (or other calibre) insert tubes. These would need to be docked as well and fitted.
Voile!
Would this work? I don't know, but the barrel length, bullet weight and velocity would be important to get the bullets to stabilize.
Now does such a setup sound accurate? Probably not, but I don't think Howdahs were very accurate in the first place, so nothing new. My reading was their main purpose was a defensive weapon when the tiger one is hunting is hanging onto the head of one's elephant and one's rifle barrels were too long
for one 
.| RLI |
| (.375 member) |
| 11/05/04 03:33 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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I have a Merkel sxs 12g "Made in GDR" shotgun I suppose I could convert that. I was thinking of .405Win calibre I know this is not a British calibre but a few British doubles were made in this calibre. What British calibres would be suitable for a Howdah? Most are to big and powerfull to be used in a Howdah pistol or they are to small . any suggestions?
RLI
| mickey |
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| 11/05/04 04:19 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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In reply to:
Picture this - you are sitting in a mock howdah which wobbles quite a bit, wearing your pith helmet, carrying your favourite double rifle. Your howdah pistol is in a holster. A tiger target is charging you from close range. Your double having been expended, jammed, whatever (being a "junk" vintage Jeffrey, A&N, WR or H&H ), you need to draw the howdah pistol and shoot the tiger in a leathal area.
I love it. How about a 5 gallon bucket full of water on a big pendulum. While standing in your rickity stand 10 feet above the ground. Your friends are shaking the legs and this bucket is in full charge at your body. Two quick shots with your Double and then, if it is still coming you grab your Howdah and give it two more. Of course if you miss the bucket it knocks you ass over tea kettle off the platform and you consider yourself eaten.
| RLI |
| (.375 member) |
| 11/05/04 09:52 PM |
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It would be a cross between Single Action Shooting and IPSC ! but much better!
RLI
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NitroX
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| 11/05/04 11:03 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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In reply to:
it knocks you ass over tea kettle off the platform
I thought this is what your .577 Howdah does anyway.
| Marrakai |
| (.416 member) |
| 11/05/04 11:26 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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Anyone here got Chris Austyn's "Modern Sporting Guns"?
Go take a peek at Plate 22, opposite page 97.
Both the sublime and the rediculous, on the one page!
BTW, the A&N chambered for the .577 Short Snider really flicks my switch!
| congomike |
| (.224 member) |
| 12/05/04 01:39 AM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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Actually a simple solution, maybe, would be to find a double barrel action THAT HAD NEVER BEEN BARRELLED. According to ATF as long as it never had been barrelled, you can make a pistol out of it. Many of the early silohuette (sp?) shooters in my area tried taking MK X mauser actions and making handguns out of them. Some were successful, some were not. Anyway, how about a 10" barrelled .600 Nitro double pistol....you first....
| DUGABOY1 |
| (.400 member) |
| 12/05/04 02:54 AM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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I just noticed RLI was in Aussie land,and I will edit my post to the attention of US citizens, only! My post does not apply to him, or anyone outside the USA! However, for those who are in the USA, do not think because this can be done legally in Australia, it will not be frowned on here! The mere suggesting doing it here may get you a visit! The Patriot act leaves some real holes in your rights today! My advice to the US citizens is, tread lightly! The key words like Patriot act,ATF, Sawed off, short barrel, in this, and my other post may throw up a flag on big brother's computer chatter watchers, looking for terrorest action.
In OZ, if it is legal, the Pedersoli would work fine, by simply lopping off the barrels just in front of the fore end, and re-doing the tangs to a better pistol grip angle! The 45-70 would be a perfect round for this, if the barrels are left at around 12" to 14", and a fast powder like IMR3031, or one of the Aussie powders with the same generel burning rate, is used . The cartridges used in howdah pistols were large diameter, and had very short cases. The cartridge mentioned by Marrakai is perfect, the 577 Snider carbine,(SHORT), or the 58 Berdan Carbine, were both chambered in original H Ps. Both are British, in that they were designed by Americans, but were not accepted for military rounds in the USA, but both picked up by the Britts. The standard NE rounds for Double rifles are much too long to do well in a pistol. The barrels are not long enough to burn the amount of powder used in those long cases.
| Marrakai |
| (.416 member) |
| 12/05/04 11:17 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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For those without Austyn's book, this is what the .577 Howdah Pistol looks like. I WANT ONE!
Many large-bore Brit pistols were chambered for the .577 Revolver cartridge, which is a really short dumpy cartridge not much longer than a .22 rimfire. Unfortunately I don't have one in my collection, an omission I will have to rectify. Such pistols are very rare today. Its possible that a Howdah pistol in this configuration could be chambered for the more powerful short Snider cartridge, on the left in the photo below. The others are the standard-length Snider, the .577 Express, and the .577 Nitro Express.
I just love this calibre!
Regarding sleeving a small-bore shotgun action for a 'modern' Howdah pistol, I believe the .577 short Snider is still a realistic option. A single rifled .577 tube from any of the BP rifleworks like Dixie or Green River would provide the barrel sleeves, and the cases are available from Bertram. Lead projectiles from any .577 Minie mold would probably produce adequate short-range accuracy. Tons of fun, no doubt!
| RLI |
| (.375 member) |
| 13/05/04 08:41 AM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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Great pics! I just read a old Guns & Ammo article about a Howdah in .577 short snider made by Rodda and this pistol comes cased. Very similar to the one you have pictured. I have to have one! . I will be looking at a Pedersoli next week and I will see if I can convert to .577 short snider.Thanks for the lead on components . I better contact the Jacks(police) to get there royal seal of approval.
RLI
| 470Rigby |
| (.333 member) |
| 13/05/04 10:33 AM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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RLI
I think you should take yourself off for a reality check!
Being a fellow Victorian, I can tell you you would have a "snow balls" chance of owning one of these legitimately here - so why continue with this nonsense?
Instant Shooters Licence suspension, and forfeiture of ALL of your guns would be the result of being cought with it "off-ticket", are you prepared to risk THAT for this?
Remember, a sawn-off Pedersoli is STILL a Pedersoli!
| RLI |
| (.375 member) |
| 13/05/04 11:14 AM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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470Rigby,
Why get so upset? If you had read everything I have written it is all with Victoria Police permission and I hold all licences which let me do this and if you think I need a "reality check" why don't you check the Firearms act and it states that firearms can be modified by a Gundealer with Police permission . The Howdah once complete would be registered as a Handgun and even with the over .38 calibre rule in Victoria/Australia it can still be used by some licence holders including myself! I think you should read everything I and other members have written and if you do not understand anything just ask and I/we will endeavour to answer your questions but going off half cocked over a subject you know very little about only makes you look rude and ignorant.
RLI
| 470Rigby |
| (.333 member) |
| 13/05/04 02:33 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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RLI
Well, I did discuss this with a few people "in the know", and the consensus was that the probability of obtaining sanction to do this in Victoria was in the "snow ball" survival region.
If you have some special situation that allows you to do it, good for you! I daresay, 99.99 percent of the population couldn't, and it's them that I worry about. Just go and do it without any fanfare.
Am I upset? Yes. Just think a public forum such as this is not the place to ventilate these sorts of concepts. We don't really kow WHO is out there anonomously taking all this down, do we?
MODERATORS?
Obviously, you can't be up with the gun laws in every jurisdiction around the world, but is there a policy on this forum relating to potentially illegal acts being "aired"?
There ARE consequences.
In this instance, how long after the first illegally s*wn-off Pedersoli is used in a Bank hold-up would it be before ownership of double rifles is put under the spotlight? The same applies to shotguns I hear you say! But there IS a difference. Heavy calibre double rifle owners are a minority within a minority, and would have no electoral clout. Who can justify ownership of a heavy calibre double in a country where a 30-06 will handle any common game species.
The reason these issues were not canvassed in my original post IS precisely because we don't know who is watching.
I just think RLI and all of the other posters that went along with this "nonsense" should go and take a cold shower. DUGABOY offered the same advice and you all blithely ignored him. Maybe he was too polite.
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 13/05/04 11:02 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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470Rigby
If you have any concerns please PM me.
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 13/05/04 11:04 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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THIS POST IS GENERAL AND NOT REPLYING TO ANYONE IN PARTICULAR.
No one has suggested doing anything illegal here. It has always been stated that legal issues be ascertained BEFORE actually doing anything. This is only a discussion and is NOT illegal to discuss, thank God
."Saw-offs" are not automatically criminals weapons. A gunsmith might alter the length of a barrel legally or after the owner has obtained the legal right to do so for all sorts of legal reasons.
I can't imagine a criminal going out and legally purchasing a Pedersoli .45/70 for $5000, then cutting off the barrel to create an imitation Howdah pistol. And also without permission, turning a legal rifle into an illegal pistol. Somehow I think he may just get a shotgun on the black market or steal one and saw that off. And probably all unlicensed too.
As this is a free and open forum and international forum it is NOT a problem to discuss things and even in the state of Victoria and Australia and the USA free speech still exists. It is concerning to me how often we hear or read of shooters that want to 'police themselves' usually over-interpretting the law or making it worse than it is. Usually the excuse is "so not as to set bad example in the press or otherwise".
You know the Jewish capo guards in the WW2 concentration and extermination camps helping the Nazis guard and ENFORCE the camps (10 Jewish guards to every 1 German guard ) probably thought the same thing.***
If the wrong people read it they can go and fuck themselves. Free speech is more important here.
***
HOWDAHS. Anyone intending to actually convert a rifle into a shorter barrelled firearm please seek out your local firearms authorities to ensure what you intend to do can be legally done by you.
Hopefully that fixs the "concerns" of naysayers
| RLI |
| (.375 member) |
| 13/05/04 11:45 PM |
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NitroX,
Very well put I totally agree.
RLI
| Marrakai |
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| 14/05/04 09:33 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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In the Northern Territory at least, and I thought the whole of Australia, black powder firearms escaped the "nothing over .38" restriction. I don't shoot with the Black Powder club, but would be interested to know if BP cartridge guns over .38 (or over .45 for that matter) can still be used during an official event. If so, that would provide a legitimate reason for pretty-well anyone with an H-class licence in Australia, with the ability to meet BP club-attendance minimums.
In the NT, firearms manufactured before 1900 can be held fairly freely on a special 'Antique Licence', and discharged under certain circumstances, such as at Collectors' Shoots. Generally a re-barrel would not be regarded as changing the date of manufacture of the firearm, especially if it was rebarrelled to an obsolete 'period' cartridge like the Snider.
I should add that the Antique Licence covering H-class might be difficult to get unless a normal H-class Collectors Licence was already held. The NT Coppers tend to have a "no dickheads" policy when it comes to this sort of thing. Matter of fact, so do the rest of us shooters!
| RLI |
| (.375 member) |
| 15/05/04 09:40 AM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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With the nothing over .38 rule it mainly appies to Pistol Clubs the exceptions are
Black Powder
Metalic Silouhete (forgive the spelling)
SASS
Collectors (class 2)
Security Guards (I do not think a Howdah in .577 Snider would be main issue of a security company somehow!)
Gundealers
and any special reasons like film armourers, Defence contractors, etc. All above on approved ranges but you can apply to the police for a exemption for use else where but seldom given. All above is for Victoria other states would be very similar.
RLI
| RLI |
| (.375 member) |
| 15/05/04 06:01 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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I have just got some advice from my Gunsmith and he says the Pedersoli or Merkel conversion can be done but with recoil of .45/70 the web of my hand may get cut by top opening lever this may or may not be a problem . I would go for a under lever opening lever but I know of no modern firearms made like this . I am looking at the moment to the following
Pedersoli/ .577 Snider
Merkel/ .500S&W or .577 Snider
I have a Smith & Wesson .500S&W Magnum revolver on order and when I get it I will see how this round is in the recoil department (I think it should crumple a tiger trying to get in a Howdah). I will most likely go with the Merkel /.500S&W combination (it is not British but it is available) as I see this as a modern version of the Howdah. I am not sure of Barrel length 10" or 12" maybe, sights would be express style , any one who has any ideas on barrel length,sights,stock,calibre choice please forward your suggestions. Thanks
RLI
| RLI |
| (.375 member) |
| 17/05/04 05:13 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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I just found this on AR http://members.fortunecity.com/howda it shows a sauer shotgun converted to a Howdah in .45/70. This is similar to what I inted to do but with a Merkel shotgun in .500S&W (435g at 1700fps for above 2700me) I would go for the classic look not the fiberglass as shown . Check out the lump on this blokes forehead he got when both barrels went off together during R&D testing!
RLI
| Marrakai |
| (.416 member) |
| 17/05/04 10:54 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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Not meaning to be critical, but sleeving INSIDE existing 12-bore barrels like that is a really UGLY way to build a Howdah Pistol or a .470 Double Rifle.
...and not a peep about REGULATION!!!!!
Still, he's obviously having more fun than I am bashing away at this keyboard....!
| lar45 |
| (.224 member) |
| 19/05/04 01:35 PM |
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Hi all, Calibros did not try to regulate the barrels on his 45-70. He did try to adjust his loads to get them to regulate, but didn't have much sucess with it. He has the sights set for the right barrel and gives a little windage for the left one. He says after recutting the sear engagement that he hasn't had any more doubleing mishaps. I don't have a current picture of his " Pondoro", but he says that he has finished the ends of the barrels.
On my site I have pics of my 70cal pinfire Howdah. The recoil is not that bad.
The 470NE being built on the Belgian Antique 12ga may not look pretty, but it does shoot and has not come off face yet. It did pass with 2 heavy proof loads and several box's full power loads since then. I have been slow on finishing it. I have one barrel soldered in place and just need to get back to the range to finish adjusting the left one. With the barrel sleeves turned to the shotgun dimensions then the barrels didn't even come close to regulateing. The right would shoot left and the left would shoot right about 18" at 25yds. I then turned down the barrels tapering them back but leaving a full diameter for abit at the muzzle end, then I went to the range, filed down one side of the barrel, shimmed it over and shot. Repeat. I got it shooting fairly good at 50yds, but ran out of ammo. My next trip to the range should be able to get the left barrel adjusted and soldered in place.
I informed Calibros of my regulating idea. I don't know if he will try it on his 45-70 or not.
Reading the ATF code, it seems that it should be legal to build a Howdah from an anitque double shotgun. I wrote a couple of letters and several email to the ATF. They responded saying that a cut down shotgun would be a sawed off shotgun and would need to be liscenced. They did not address the issue of starting with an antique as the CGA and NFA do not apply to anitques.
If you have different rules in Australia then I wouldn't see any reason that you couldn't do it. I would start with a shotgun that has the 3rd fastener on it. A dolls head or the greener cross bolt. I would think that a 50-70 would make a very nice Howdah caliber. A quick run through Quickload shows that a 10" 50-70 with 500gn cast should be able to do 1200fps+ and stay under 27ksi with 26gns of 2400. That should be pleanty of performance out of any pistol.
If you don't like the looks of a sleeved 12ga, then you could always cut the barrels off around 3" and make a monoblock out of it. Thread the monoblock, then screw your barrels into it, solder in place then finish and regulate like a normal double. I may try that on my next one after I get this one done.
| mickey |
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| 19/05/04 01:50 PM |
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Those would be pretty neat self defense guns for Bears.
| RLI |
| (.375 member) |
| 19/05/04 02:40 PM |
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Lar45,
What do you think of the Merkel/.500S&W idea? I was thinking that to big would be uncontrollable and I want a degree of accuracy then again it is a last defence against a tiger at most a few yards . I would prefer a calibre .50 or over a .500S&W, 50/70 or original .577 Snider any calibres you can suggest? Thanks
RLI
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 19/05/04 10:49 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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Lars
Try as I might I can't get all the photos on your site to load up. The .470 page, plus building the howdah page.
| lar45 |
| (.224 member) |
| 20/05/04 04:12 AM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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RLI, I am by no means an expert here. I did buy the book about building double rifles on shotgun actions and have read it many times. In the book he suggests uesing actions that have been proof tested so that you can see what the allowable bolt thrust would be. He also goes into not useing any high pressure cartriges. The 500S&W would be a high pressure cartrige and would probably be a bad idea to do. I think that the 50-70 or 577 Snider would be great as they offer a big bore and low pressure.
Ross Seyfried did an article about his 577 Tranter revolver and was talking about a 450gn slug at 750fps. Not to get into the 45-70 DGR debate, but in a pistol a large slug in that weight/velocity range would be controllable and should be effective on thin skinned beasts. I haven't clocked the velocity on my 70cal pinfire loads as the filler messes with the chrono readings, but the 850gn slug would sure pack a huge wallop and isn't really that bad to shoot. I have a LEE 12ga 1oz slug mold that I've modified, but haven't had a chance to shoot it yet. I'll look up the ISBN on the book and post it here if anyone wants to look for a copy.
I was thinking of 50-70 as the US has a 50cal limit unless you get a special sporting cartrige exemption and that is only for rifles.
I've been busy with school and finals, but I'll check my site and see if all the pics are still there.
http://members.fortunecity.com/howda
A local gun shop got in some new Turkish double shotguns that look real interesting. They have the Greener cross bolt and are in the $800 US range. The actions are made of 1040 which isn't really confidence inspireing, but if you worked withing the limits of the steel then it might be interesting to see what could/might be made from them.
| lar45 |
| (.224 member) |
| 20/05/04 04:36 AM |
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NitroX, I was going to do a building a Howdah page, but thought that I deleted it. Where did you see a link to it? I picked up the Antique Belgian 12ga with the thought of doing a Howdah on it, but while waiting for a reply from the ATF, I happened across the 70cal pinfire, so I decided not to convert it. I used the 12ga for the 470NE project. I still have the 10ga and I'm thinking about doing something large with it, just haven't decided yet. Maybe a 577 or 600?
I got all the pics on the 470 page to load. Maybe I have too many on one page, I'll see about splitting it up into a couple of pages.
| lar45 |
| (.224 member) |
| 22/05/04 01:07 AM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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This is the book I bought.
Building Double Rifles on Shotgun Actions by W. Ellis Brown
ISBN 0-9714802-0-6
published by
Bunduki Publishing
39384 W.C.R. 19
Ft. Collins, CO 80524 USA
if anyone is interested.
It pretty much has a step by step approach to building the gun with pics and illustrations.
| RLI |
| (.375 member) |
| 22/05/04 07:53 AM |
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This is a book I must have, is there a website ? Thanks
RLI
| lar45 |
| (.224 member) |
| 22/05/04 08:56 AM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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I didn't find a website for them, but Brownells has it. $49.95
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/Store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=20231&title=BUILDING+DOUBLE+RIFLES+ON+SHOTGUN+ACTIONS
| RLI |
| (.375 member) |
| 22/05/04 09:07 AM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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Thanks
| mehulkamdar |
| (.416 member) |
| 24/05/04 08:50 AM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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Dugaboy 1,
I am currently in the US but I remember having an old issue of (I'm not sure whether it was Guns and Ammo or Gun Digest) with pictures of a modern take on the Howdah pistol by US gunmaker Lee Jurras on the Thomson Center Contender frame. Not quite the 577s of the British era, but interesting single barreled big bore handguns, I think.
I wonder if anyone has any access to the old issues - maybe Nickudu at AR? I'll try and scan and mail them to someone who may be able to post the pictures when I go to India in a couple of months.
Good hunting!
| Gibbs505 |
| (.333 member) |
| 13/06/04 03:04 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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Here is a site about a guy who built his own howdah pistol in 45-70!
http://members.fortunecity.com/howda/calibros.html
| Hobie |
| (.224 member) |
| 14/06/04 06:21 AM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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You can get in touch with Mr. Jurras on the Leverguns.com forums. Just ask for grandcurmudgeon.
Those cartridges pre-dated JDJ's creations if I remember correctly and some were made up for race car drivers and other such "notables" of the time. I remember the article and I also remember that I passed it on to a friend about 8 years ago. He's a packrat (worse than me) so I'll ask if he's still got it. However, it might take MONTHS for him to find it.
| mehulkamdar |
| (.416 member) |
| 17/06/04 12:21 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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Gibbs 505,
Thanks for the link.
Good hunting!
| mehulkamdar |
| (.416 member) |
| 17/06/04 12:28 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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Hobie,
Thanks for the contact deails for Mr Jurras and I'll try and contact him on the Leverguns.com forums but I wonder if someone here who knows him better could get the pictures/details faster than I would?
In any case they would be of fantastic historical/archival value.
Good hunting!
| Gibbs505 |
| (.333 member) |
| 18/06/04 10:14 AM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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No problem, enjoy!!
| docEE |
| (.224 member) |
| 20/06/04 11:42 AM |
Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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Interesting thread! I just read an article in the past several days from one of our gun magazines (I'll have to dig for it) about a guy sawing down a 12 gauge to make a pistol. It was legal here in US because he spent the 3 months and $200 to get a permit to do so. He started with one of the Bakhail side-by-side shotguns and since he is an orthopedic surgeon who appreciates the risks to joints and such ONLY shoots the 1-1/2" slugs offered by Aguilla(??). I'll see if the article describes the slug weight and velocity. I was less than enthusiastic to see that this weapon is basically considered to be a class III weapon, which puts it in the same camp with fully-automatic weapons. That means I wouldn't consider bothering with it... putting my fingerprints on file and such. Foolish to restrict them, considering they would be far too unweildy for a criminal to use in virtually any situation and likely to cause injury to a user unless he was quite adept.
| Marrakai |
| (.416 member) |
| 20/06/04 11:15 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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Just found another variation on the Howdah Pistol, this one a single-shot on a Khyber Pass Martini of all things! 100 years old (?), owned by a Canadian.
...presumably a .577-.450! Ouch!!
For all you "do-it-yourself" Howdah Pistol fans.....
| mehulkamdar |
| (.416 member) |
| 21/06/04 02:38 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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Thanks to Hobie for referring me to Mr Jurras!
I registered on the Leverguns Forums on Hobie's advice and Mr Jurras will be sending me pictures and details of the Howda guns that he designed and made in the 1970s I think. I shall try and scan and mail them to NitroX and we shall be able to see them here in a few days' time.
Thank you, Hobie and good hunting, gentlemen!
| lar45 |
| (.224 member) |
| 21/06/04 02:42 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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Now that is a very cool looking Martini. I need one of those.
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 21/06/04 02:52 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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How much "barrel" is left in front of the chamber of that Martini pistol?
| RLI |
| (.375 member) |
| 10/08/05 07:08 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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Another Howdah
H&H .577Snider
| Marrakai |
| (.416 member) |
| 10/08/05 07:34 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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Try Again!
| RLI |
| (.375 member) |
| 10/08/05 07:37 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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I can not put pic up for some reason any expert advice out there on how to do this? Thanks
| Marrakai |
| (.416 member) |
| 10/08/05 07:45 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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RLI:
Right-click on the link in my previous post, select 'Properties' from the menu, and check the url address. Now do the same on the red-X in your post. Note the difference.
Nice piece by the way, but I wish they wouldn't photograph these things in the castle dungeon during a candle shortage!
| Poacher |
| (.224 member) |
| 18/08/05 01:01 AM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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Let's not forget all the great muzzle-loading Howdahs. They're very potent and completely legal. I have a .69 caliber (14 bore) set of Mortimers that would really get the job done. As a matter of fact, I'm certain that they pack a bigger punch than my .557 Snider (sht) by Lyon & Lyon.
| DarylS |
| (.700 member) |
| 18/08/05 04:25 AM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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This should work. right click on the picture, then select properties, and put in the [image] and [/image] brackets and your pictures will work on this forum. You had two http:// at the start of your address - that's why it didn't work.
:Beautiful pistol, but it would smack the wrist pretty hard with it's back strap shape, instead of climbing up like a single action does. Still, it would be a treasure to own.
| RLI |
| (.375 member) |
| 18/08/05 02:30 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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Thanks for the advice on posting pics Marrakai and Daryl S . I would think it would be just the the pistol for Grizzly in your part of the world, no tigers here in Australia so a charging porker will have to do! But I think too rare to shoot so into the gunsafe
Steve
| Poacher |
| (.224 member) |
| 18/08/05 03:58 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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The Howdah in the above photo is by Holland and it will be auctioned off in London at Holt's gallery on September 7th if anyone is really interested in owning it. The photo posted is from the Holt's auction preview catalog. Auction estimate is placed at 3,000 to 5,000 sterling. It's a wonderful pistol and I wouldn't hesitate to fire it. Regards, Poacher.
| rgp |
| (.333 member) |
| 18/08/05 04:09 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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If able to actually construct and shoot a modern version of one of these beasts in Australia, why won't they let you get a Freedom Arms revolver in .475 Linebaugh instead? I've read through a ton of Australian firearms regulations, and no matter what the regulations appear to state, I suspect that anyone with a few million dollars in their bank account can still buy any gun they would ever want.
Richard.
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 24/06/20 11:52 AM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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BTTT
Tags: Howdah
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 24/06/20 08:34 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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LEGALITIES ASIDE, WHATEVER IS DISCUSSED HAS TO BE LEGALLY DOABLE WHERE YOU LIVE. SO NO NEED FOR SOMEONE TO SAY "STOP TALKING ABOUT THIS, IT IS ILLEGAL! OR SOME SUCH GUFF."
There was talk on this thread of cutting back a Pedersoli in .45/70 to make a Howdah pistol. This would be quite costly. The donor rifle not cheap. It would not be regulated, unless the barrels were separate and redone. It would have hammers.
Now I was thinking, what about a Baikal .45/70?
A major difference is no hammers. I really like hammers as such a howdah pistol can be carried more safely loaded with hammers.
But a major plus is one-fifth to one-tenth the donor cost. My rifle I picked up for A$800 simply because it was there and to have a play with. I had a look and immediately found one for sale in Tasmania right now for something like $1100.
If legal permission was obtained, the barrels could be cut off just in front of the forend. The butt cut back to a suitable shaped pistol grip, or removed and replaced with a new walnut pistol grip. The muzzles reworked and new sights added, probably front and rear? I will have to take the "ribs" off mine and see how far the barrels are separated? Perhaps wedges might still work to allow some sort of regulation?
A lot of people have complained about their Baikals were not able to be regulated(?).
Now as to Howdahs and regulation. How regulated were real original howdahs? They were designed to be shot at very close range. Say ten feet or less. So really point and shoot, preferably touching the fur without getting scratched or bitten!
A reason a cutback 20-bore might be just as good as a rifled pistol. Because of such inaccurate but close range shooting.
Nowadays if shooting targets, touching the paper target wouldn't be very competitive or exciting.
I think if making such a rifled howdah, it would be nice to have something, something like accurate and able to be shot well at sensible distances.
Then there is the discussion of recoil. The lightish weight of Baikals in .45/70s for some people are not comfortable to shoot. So cutting back to a howdah and shooting? How(dah) would that work?!
What weight would a cutback Baikal howdah work at? What weight was an average .577 brass case break open Howdah?
Lets have a discussion on recoil and what is manageable.
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 24/06/20 09:50 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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IMO a base position. Anyway for me. Unless it was a muzzle loader.
BGRC Howdah Rules
Howdah Pistol (Q)
a. Minimum calibre .375
b. Single or double barrel
c. Smooth or ball rifling
d. Min. muzzle energy 1,000 ft lbs
e. Min. 300 grain bullet weight
FIRING SEQUENCE
Howdah Pistol (max. 10 shots)
25yds – to be decided by Host Branch
10yds – to be decided by Host Branch
(“Tiger” target if possible)
More than a bit boring, the target shooting. Bang bang shooting at some paper. Even if a "Tiger" target.
A Howdah wasn't standing in a staid line shooting at a stationary piece of paper! It was sitting in a rocking perhaps tipping howdah elephant saddle, while a tiger was running at you, leaping onto the elephant's heading, clawing at the mahout, while the gentleman drew a howdah from a holster in the corner of the howdah saddle and shot the tiger. Or a tiger on the rump of the elephant doing similar.
Now I have been in a howdah several times. And it is nothing like standing in a boring line pinging at boring paper targets. One time was in the mountains of Thailand. This howdah was a very polished teak chair, no box sides like a lot of the hunting howdahs, and ones bum slid around that chair due to the polishing. One had to really hang on! I had my day bag, a big video camera and my SLR camera. Had to hang onto these and the rail of the chairs side. As the elephant walked on cliff side mountain paths and raocked from side to side. In danger of falling off!
Now if a tiger jumped onto an elephant's head I imagine the ride might be even more rocky and precarious! An elephant rearing onto its hind legs, rocking side to side in fright and fight. Shooting that howdah pistol would not have been such an easy affair. Just came to mind is another reason for a PISTOL, compared to a rifle or other long arm. One was probably having to hang on for dear life with one hand, while trying to shoot the tiger off one's back! As the saying goes.
One of the other times in a howdah was filming tigers in India. In the Tiger parks, the staff look for tiger sign on the roads. Then use an elephant to trek into the jungle to try and find where the tiger's are lying up. Once found, the staff setup a rallying point for hundreds of Indian tourists who drive there, waiting ina jabbering crowd, in queues, get on an elephant, ones uses a ladder did you know? Then trek on the eles back for several hundred metres to "view the tiger".
When we did this, the mahout was very nice and allowed us a much longer time over the tiger. Probably because of my impressive big video camera. Of course he got a decent tip. It was disappointing that this tiger was very hidden under a thorn thicket, and while it could be seen with the naked eye, glaring at us from underneath, the images in the video and SLR stills were unfocused or mostly so, because of all the thorn bush branches in between. One had to try to focus through them, and reasonably quickly.
The Indian tourists in this park, Kanha I think it was, generally can drive in the park themselves. Most go straight to the centre station. Wait in a steaming crowd of seeming thousands, just for the tiger sighting, elephant etc. Almost no interest in other wildlife species. A really poor show. These parks could be run so much better. Especially for the wildlife.
So back to the competition. Really it needs to incorporate some of the realities of the Howdah experience. Not a boring target shooting lines.
The BGRC does have some charging shoots. Lion and buffalo. These are great fun. Shot with a rifle.
Now a charging tiger would at the least be an improvement. Ideally shooting from a "portable" Howdah platform. Preferably one a little unstable. Unstable enough so movement causes it to rock a little. Not so unstable as to be firearms unsafe though, in our modern cotton wool world.
Ideally I would build a wooden framed "howdah" box, with canvas or board sides, richly decorated! Add a wooden seat or two inside. Perhaps the range officer sitting behind. Should wear a turban of course.
The shooter in a pith helmet! The competitor first faces a charging tiger, ideally from say 25 metres to the side-front and lower, simulating sitting on the back of an elephant. The competitor shoots his double rifle or bolt action twice at the charging tiger, hands the EMPTY rifle to his number two for safety and draws the howdah pistol. Then when the charging tiger reaches a point below the howdah box, a pop up tiger springs up in front of the howdah seat, and the competitor needs to shoot both barrels into it in X seconds. Complicated, hey?
But would be great fun. I think the BGRC Howdah shoot sequence is enough to put one to sleep. Zzzzzzzzzz. A small but major problem is probably next to no one has a howdah pistol to shoot with! Had the BGRC ever actually had one of these shoots? A club howdah smooth bore "sawn off" would be a great idea for people to shoot and play with.
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 24/06/20 10:04 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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Quote:
BGRC Howdah Rules
Howdah Pistol (Q)
a. Minimum calibre .375
b. Single or double barrel
c. Smooth or ball rifling
d. Min. muzzle energy 1,000 ft lbs
e. Min. 300 grain bullet weight
Ha ha. My actual main point was the above.
Their rules also preclude muzzle loaders. Mine does not! If it is a double barrelled Howdah pistol. As only two shots are fired.
So what cartridges would be suitable for the above?
What existing hand gun cartridges would fulfill these needs?
What shotgun cartridges loaded with slug or ball would satisfy these minimums?
I will do some searching, but suggestions with calibre, bullet weight and energy levels should be included. And also if possible recoil energy and velocity. In a suitable weight firearm a howdah would be.
Can anyone supply the weight of a typical howdah pistol?
Lets have a look? Not all of these might be adequate for the criteria.
The .577 howdah cartridges? I am not knowledgeable on these?
.45/70
.45 Long Colt
20-bore shotgun
16-bore shotgun
12-bore shotgun
28-bore shotgun?
Just for comparison, .367 Magnum
Others?
.454 Casull, Ripps new bear handgun?
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 24/06/20 10:18 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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Quote:
BGRC Howdah Rules
Howdah Pistol (Q)
a. Minimum calibre .375
b. Single or double barrel
c. Smooth or ball rifling
d. Min. muzzle energy 1,000 ft lbs
e. Min. 300 grain bullet weight
300 grs, Energy minimum 1,000 ft lbs. = minimum of 1,225 fps muzzle velocity/
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 24/06/20 10:29 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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Quote:Quote:
BGRC Howdah Rules
Howdah Pistol (Q)
a. Minimum calibre .375
b. Single or double barrel
c. Smooth or ball rifling
d. Min. muzzle energy 1,000 ft lbs
e. Min. 300 grain bullet weight
300 grs, Energy minimum 1,000 ft lbs. = minimum of 1,225 fps muzzle velocity/
Weight of a howdah pistol?
One example:
Quote:
The Original Howdah Pistol is a reproduction of the famous Auto & Burglar model made by Ithaca Company around 1920. This modern version features rifled barrels chambered for . 45LC/.
...
Product Specs.
Item Number REV/S640.410
Barrel Length 10.25'' Round
Caliber .45LC/410
Capacity 2
Weight 7.2 lbs
https://www.taylorsfirearms.com/specials/pedersoli-products/original-howdah-pistol.html
So I will use 7.2 lbs for now.
http://www.shooterscalculator.com/recoil-calculator.php
http://www.shooterscalculator.com/bullet-kinetic-energy.php
Recoil stats:
Bullet Weight:
300
(gr)
Bullet Velocity:
1225
(fps)
Powder Charge Weight:
20 (I used this just as an example)
(gr)
Firearm Weight:
7.2
(lbs)
Recoil Impulse
2.08
(lbs.sec)
Recoil Velocity
9.28
(fps)
Recoil Energy
9.63
(ft.lbf
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 24/06/20 10:53 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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Quote:
BGRC Howdah Rules
.
Howdah Pistol (Q)
a. Minimum calibre .375
b. Single or double barrel
c. Smooth or ball rifling
d. Min. muzzle energy 1,000 ft lbs
e. Min. 300 grain bullet weight
.
.
300 grs, Energy minimum 1,000 ft lbs. = minimum of 1,225 fps muzzle velocity.
.
Weight of a howdah pistol? 7.2 lbs
.
.
http://www.shooterscalculator.com/recoil-calculator.php
http://www.shooterscalculator.com/bullet-kinetic-energy.php
.
Recoil stats:
.
Bullet Weight:
300
(gr)
Bullet Velocity:
1225
(fps)
Powder Charge Weight:
20 (I used this just as an example)
(gr)
Firearm Weight:
7.2
(lbs)
Recoil Impulse
2.08
(lbs.sec)
Recoil Velocity
9.28
(fps)
Recoil Energy
9.63
(ft.lbf
.45 Long Colt 22" barrel (rifle)
300 gr, 22 grs powder, 1550 fps
Bullet Weight:
300
(gr)
Bullet Velocity:
1550
(fps)
Powder Charge Weight:
22
(gr)
Firearm Weight:
7.2
(lbs)
Recoil Impulse
2.55
(lbs.sec)
Recoil Velocity
11.41
(fps)
Recoil Energy
14.56
(ft.lbf)
Mass:
300
(gr)
Velocity:
1550
(fps)
Energy:
1601
(ft.lbf)
2170
(joules)
.577 Bland-Pryse Revolver Stopper
Pushing approximately a 400 grain bullet at about 725 fps, these 5-shot revolvers were made as last-ditch “stopping” guns in case of attack by large animals, and most of them were taken to India during the Victorian period.
https://www.forgottenweapons.com/577-caliber-bland-pryse-stopping-revolver/
Bullet Weight:
400
(gr)
Bullet Velocity:
725
(fps)
Powder Charge Weight:
15
(gr)
Firearm Weight:
7.2
(lbs)
Recoil Impulse
1.62
(lbs.sec)
Recoil Velocity
7.24
(fps)
Recoil Energy
5.87
(ft.lbf)
Mass:
400
(gr)
Velocity:
725
(fps)
Energy:
467
(ft.lbf)
633
(joules)
.45-70 Ballistics
Typical 45-70 ballistics with modern factory ammo are a 300gr bullet at 2,350fps (3,678 ft-lbs), a 325gr bullet at 2,050fps (3,032 ft-lbs), and a 405gr bullet at 1,330fps (1,591 ft-lbs). The .45-70 Govt is very effective out to around 150 yards with minimal bullet drop, but it’s capable of great accuracy and longer range shooting as well.
One .45-70 load approximates the performance of the original .45-70 Govt black powder loading of a 405 grain bullet (.307 BC) at 1350 feet per second while the other is a 325gr Hornady LEVERevolution factory load (.230 BC).
Lets use 405 grs, 1,330 fps, 27 grs
Bullet Weight:
405
(gr)
Bullet Velocity:
1330
(fps)
Powder Charge Weight:
27
(gr)
Firearm Weight:
7.2
(lbs)
Recoil Impulse
2.99
(lbs.sec)
Recoil Velocity
13.37
(fps)
Recoil Energy
19.99
(ft.lbf)
Mass:
405
(gr)
Velocity:
1330
(fps)
Energy:
1591
(ft.lbf)
2157
(joules)
.44/40
The ballistic information based off three grain types for the .44 WCF muzzle velocity is 1,245 ft/s (200 gr), 1,190 ft/s (217 gr), and 750 ft/s (225 gr).
So say 200 grs, 1250 fps and say 10 grs
Bullet Weight:
200
(gr)
Bullet Velocity:
1250
(fps)
Powder Charge Weight:
10
(gr)
Firearm Weight:
7.2
(lbs)
Recoil Impulse
1.33
(lbs.sec)
Recoil Velocity
5.95
(fps)
Recoil Energy
3.96
(ft.lbf)
Mass:
200
(gr)
Velocity:
1250
(fps)
Energy:
694
(ft.lbf)
941
(joules)
.44 Magnum
Say 300 grs , 1250 fps, 15 grs (?)
Bullet Weight:
300
(gr)
Bullet Velocity:
1250
(fps)
Powder Charge Weight:
15
(gr)
Firearm Weight:
7.2
(lbs)
Recoil Impulse
2
(lbs.sec)
Recoil Velocity
8.93
(fps)
Recoil Energy
8.92
(ft.lbf)
Mass:
300
(gr)
Velocity:
1250
(fps)
Energy:
1041
(ft.lbf)
1411
(joules)
Will continue in a moment.Looking for info on the .577 Eley Revolver cartridge
| tinker |
| (.416 member) |
| 25/06/20 12:21 AM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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500JRH with 440 grains at 1350fps
475 Linebaugh with 420 grains at 1350fps
With these cartridges you're in the range of 1700-1800 ft/lbs energy.
These are the standard for the 5-shot lightweight revolvers from Freedom Arms or from Huntington and the other custom wheel gun builders.
Finished guns weigh about 3-1/2 pounds.
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 25/06/20 12:11 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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Quote:
500JRH with 440 grains at 1350fps
475 Linebaugh with 420 grains at 1350fps
With these cartridges you're in the range of 1700-1800 ft/lbs energy.
These are the standard for the 5-shot lightweight revolvers from Freedom Arms or from Huntington and the other custom wheel gun builders.
Finished guns weigh about 3-1/2 pounds.
Quote:
The Original Howdah Pistol is a reproduction of the famous Auto & Burglar model made by Ithaca Company around 1920. This modern version features rifled barrels chambered for . 45LC/.
...
Product Specs.
Item Number REV/S640.410
Barrel Length 10.25'' Round
Caliber .45LC/410
Capacity 2
Weight 7.2 lbs
https://www.taylorsfirearms.com/specials/pedersoli-products/original-howdah-pistol.html
I was surprised by the weight of these Pedersoli Howdahs. Similar in weight to a full long arm game 12-bore shotgun.
Has anyone shot a .45/70 in a Thompson Contender or similar handgun? How does it perform? How manageable is the recoil?
Of course in a Howdah, it could be reloaded for lesser recoil.
| tinker |
| (.416 member) |
| 25/06/20 12:18 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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Quote:
Has anyone shot a .45/70 in a Thompson Contender or similar handgun? How does it perform? How manageable is the recoil?
Of course in a Howdah, it could be reloaded for lesser recoil.
I've shot far beyond standard 45-70 loads in a contender.
45-70 is manageable.
That 45/410 SxS Howdah could be pretty cool with blown-out 9.3x74r brass. I wonder how well the action can take elevated loads.
Might just have to find out.
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NitroX
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| (.700 member) |
| 25/06/20 02:37 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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Need to include this here and incorporate in a post above.
Cartridges used for target shooting greater than /39 or 9mm need to have a competition which includes knocking over steel silhouette targets.
I forgot to include this in my howdah discussion, it MUST include knocking over steel silhouettes to have any change of being legal in S Aust to own a handgun greater than .38 / 9 mm, for a target shooting competition.
There is no other real class or category where a handgun can be owned.
| tinker |
| (.416 member) |
| 25/06/20 03:04 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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NitroX the 500JRH was put together by Jack Huntington for the purpose of having a relatively light and compact sidearm for use as self defense around dangerous game.
He's taken all sorts of massive bovine game with the 500JRH including Cape Buffalo. The cartridge works great from a 4-5/8" barreled holster gun.
It'll knock steel targets down with no problem. I've beat up a lot of steel with a lot of big bore revolvers. Get your steel and go.
For all it's worth, a 500 would be great on those big bastards up in the NT!
| ducmarc |
| (.400 member) |
| 01/07/20 11:55 AM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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well i've gather up most of the peices for mine picked up a tight side lock hammer gun with damascus barrels and two 12 gage to 44 magnum 7" inserts gunna cut the barrels back to the inserts silver soder them in. the rent a 444 marlin reamer and shoot 444 magnum bp. nice long case could call it 429 express'. if i cut it right i will save the checkering since its a scant stock. done
| tinker |
| (.416 member) |
| 01/07/20 12:21 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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You might save a lot of trouble by going Pedersoli and using 9.3x74r brass blown out to a straight case to reach the rifling from the case mouth with a bullet.
| BigEyeBob |
| (.275 member) |
| 04/07/20 08:21 PM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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Move to the NT , you can legally modify or build your own firearms here .
| tinker |
| (.416 member) |
| 05/07/20 12:27 AM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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Quote:
Move to the NT , you can legally modify or build your own firearms here .
What are the caliber restrictions and what are the configuration restrictions?
What are the carry and usage restrictions?
| DarylS |
| (.700 member) |
| 05/07/20 01:22 AM |
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Re: Howdah Pistol in modern calibres?
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The contender might be OK with standard lever action loads, but the Encore certainly would be fine with those and perhaps even top-end loads in the 50,000psi range.