| peter |
| (removed) |
| 23/10/09 11:09 PM |
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Re: OSR, Double Damage and Barnes' Response
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Quote:
500g:
I guess it is just plain interesting.
Mike Bailey sums it up well; both sides have presented their case. Barnes with their technical material, and the other side with assertions.
Everyone can believe what they want to believe.
rod
barnes have not presented any technical material, that is worth a damn, regarding double rifles IMO.
It is actually quite funny in that, they approch the truth of the matter a few times and then misunderstands the entire subject in the end.
Quote:
barnes web page:
It is a fact that some double rifle barrels are out of spec on bore and groove diameters. In a perfect world we would build bullets to fit each individual throat and barrel, but this is simply not feasible. So we try to build bullets that will work safely for the majority. SAAMI requires that diameters on all sporting rifles not exceed +.002”, but double rifles were being built long before SAAMI came into existence
THIS IS THE KEY PROBLEM, REGARDING MONOMETAL BULLETS !!!
plus most of the new dbl. rifles are buildt to CIP spec. as they come from europe.
Quote:
Barnes web page:
To further reduce bearing surface and pressure, Barnes has cut a series of grooves in the shank of the mono-metal solid that provides any material displaced by the lands someplace to go. Full metal jackets do not have this feature. Steel on steel is not the desired scenario for a rifle barrel, especially if what people are saying is true about the older barrels being made from softer material. Is the steel in the jacket material softer or harder than the barrel steel? In general, we don’t know the answer to this as the metal used for double rifle barrels has varied to such a great extent over the years. However, we know for a fact that the brass in Barnes Banded Solids IS softer than barrel steel. We also know that the grooves cut in the shank provide an area for the softer material to displace.
i dont condone the mudslinging of their competition, especially since this is where they prove that they dont understand the subject at hand, it is not about material strenght, but weather or not the bullet material will give to the barrel instead of the barrel material giving to the bullet.
The barrel shank is the problem they should be looking at, maybe the shank dia. of a barnes banded is small enough for you to use them, maybe it is NOT. that can vary both in new guns and especially in the older gems.
Quote:
barnes web site:
I believe the “high pressure with all mono-metal solids” propaganda was spread via the old “someone heard something from someone” and so on, and so on. If someone out there is aware of an actual case involving pressure issues with BARNES mono-metal solids, I would ask that these people contact Barnes personally. We would like the opportunity to investigate any such claim. Based on our tests and experience, I’m comfortable stating that Barnes Banded Solids are better for antique barrels than the competition
THIS is where they are making a major mistake, lets do an fun example:
My alex henry from 1883, im using the barrelset in the small caliber 450/400 3 1/4", so im buying the 450/400 caliber bullets in .410", now had it been a normal barrel size with a 408 bore and a 410 grove, it could actually work fine.
Now my barrels made by daniel frazer in edinburgh for the alex henry action, are actually .405" bore with a .408" grove, which mean that it could destroy my barrels completly......
but barnes wrote that their bullets are better than woodleighs, and had the technial proofs posted as well. YES they did, so who should have the pleasure of me wrapping my destroyed rifle barrels around their neck real tight...... hmmm maybe barnes
rod im not picking on your post, but as i wrote in my PM to you, these guy's still dont know double rifles well enough to be putting out statments like that, and they apparently dont have a problem with using our prized gems as test guns.
another issue is different rifling profiles, i can not even imagine the damage a oversized shank bullet would do to a henry rifling or a lancaster oval bore.
Quote:
I’m comfortable stating that Barnes Banded Solids are better for antique barrels than the competition
this is the dumbest statment ever, and they should remove it at once.
best regards
peter
this rant here is my own rant, and not a official statment from John Rigby & Co. Ltd London