JPK
(.375 member)
25/12/08 12:46 AM
Re: 500/416 experience's

Quote:

JPk.

As to the 500/416..no, I am not sold on i, just checking and like different calibers...in reality, I really like the 500 Nitro 3"---but not so sure it will do anything more than my .470 double I already have..I realize it shoots a bit heavier bullet --but not sure it would give any more penetration than the .470..

As to the amount needed for elephant..again, I am only going off of what I have been told by Lynn, the PH in Zim who has quite a bit of experience in Botswana --who stated on more than one occassion while I was there this year..that he has seen several instances where the 2150 was not enough to penetrate the bigger bulls...then I read it again in Boddingtons new book--and finally the article I read last week..between Lynn the PH and Boddington, there is close to 200 elephants shot..so figured they had some knowledge I could learn from..

As I think about this, and after watching the 2 dvd's on Boddington on Elephants, it is quite clear, it really does not matter it you shoot them with a .275 or a 600 Nitro..if you don't hit the brain, they ain't going down ...there are several shots in the DVD series I watched where more than one shot was fired on charging elephant..just as often as not, they did not go down if not hit correctly...

Curious question though--Have you hunted the big bulls in Botswana?? and if so, what was your experience there?? Lynn the PH, stated he has never had penetration problems in Zim..but has several times in Botswana..I never have...and this could be again, much to do about nothing,, but as I stated earlier, they have the experience with them, I do not, so will probably go with what they suggest..

Take Care

Ripp




Ripp,

I think most NE rifles will provide more penetration than the 470, if you're shooting the original loads. Most vintage rifles regulate at about 2025 or 2050fps it seems. But most newer rifles are regulated with the Federal load, which is hotter at about 2100 - 2150fps. Now 50 - 125fps doesn't sound like much, but it is when discussing penetration and the lower load is not all that far from minimum. The PH I elephant hunt with most uses a 470 and his rifle's performance wants for nothing.

I have not hunted Botswana bulls, but PH's I know have. They find no difference between big bulls any where. And Botswana bulls are not the largest, I've been told, the largest come from Kruger/Ghona Rhe Zhou. Perhaps the best example is Ivan Carter, who hunts quite a bit in Botswana and uses a 450NE 3 1/4" Heym. Ivan is still in love with his rifle; that would not be the case if it didn't provide the penetration required, or the stopping power required. Ivan likes to get close, and for non target bulls, has been know to approach until he can wrap the bull with the butt of his rifle. That is a man with (over?) confidence in his read of elephants and in his rifle too, eh?

Rather than a couple of guys with only the experience of a couple of hundred eles, matched in aggragate here on this forum, I'd rather rely on Richard Harlan and Ron Thomson, who between them killed roughly 9,000 elephants. They shot all manner of elephants from the huge Gona-Rhe-Zhou bulls to cows to youngsters. They used the 458wm with factory loads to do this. Neither reports any problem, ever, with their 458wm load performance. They used Winchester factory loads, which are beat by the 450NE.

Its true that bulls don't go down with missed brain shots a majority of times or even all that frequently. But, if the proverbial s--t hits the fan, dropping a bull isn't what you need, it is stopping the bull. Big bore NE rifles have a much better track record of doing this than any 416 or 404 or whatever. Watch again Buzz Charlton's DVD and count again how many times he repeates, "...if the hunter had been using a rifle that shot a 500gr bullet this elephant would have dropped..." Cows, more likely to be trouble to begin with, drop regularly from missed brain shots - so long as you are using a big bore.

If it were my choice, I'd stick with the 470 and use the savings on another bull quota. If the itch was just too bad, I'd go and get the 500.

BTW, for any of the frontal brain shots I've made or tried, if you were to expand the penetration required to brain the elephant by 50%, the results would still be the same, full penetration of the brain cavity and into the neck. For side Brain shots, I don't know since every one - except one that failed to penetrate at all - exited, but one.

No bull elephant is half again larger than the ones I've killed.

JPK



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