(.224 member)

03/01/13 07:41 AM

Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

Looking at the Chapuis Double rifle in 30-30. I understand they are buit on a 28 Ga frame, come in at just over 6 lbs , are regulated with Hornandy Leverevolution ammo.
how much of that is right. Anyone own one, shoot one, handle one , have an opinion on one?

(.700 member)

03/01/13 07:59 AM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

Sounds like a fun deer, black bear and hog rifle.

(.400 member)

03/01/13 08:56 AM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

I dont know about , a 30-30 in a expensive rifle ! In France we take a critical look . The cartridge 30-30 has not a good reputation for hunting in Europe , quite unlike the 444 Marlin or the 45/70 gov. !

(.400 member)

03/01/13 09:08 AM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one? *DELETED*

Post deleted by grandveneur

(.700 member)

03/01/13 10:47 AM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

As to 30/30 being chambered in expensive rifles - there are a number of $3,000+ bolt action rifles with $2,000 scopes chambered for this old ctg.

Amongst cast bullet shooters, there are a HOST of poorer choices & the old .30/30 is becoming more popular all the time.

Each to his or her own, I guess.

Given the modern Leverevolution ammo with both bullets and powder available to hand loaders currently, being able to drive a 165gr. pointed bullet with decent BC out of a 24" .30/30 at around 2,300fps - to maybe even 2,400fps, changes the 'tune' of this old blister.

The round's old reputation, built perhaps by 170gr. flat nosed bullet running 2,100fps or 150gr. flat nosed bullets at 2,220fps out of carbines, no longer has much value today, unless you stick with that 'old' ammo.

Like the 'old' .45/70, it's a whole new game now, thanks to Hornady and Hodgdon.

(.333 member)

03/01/13 08:40 PM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

Brian, if you can get one in that spec and it suits your needs, buy it. You won't look back.

(.300 member)

04/01/13 03:36 AM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

I agree with Daryl S. wholeheartedly.

The much maligned .30 WCF probably still has more North American deer and black bear on its conscience than any other cartridge in history. Now, with modern bullets and powders it easily approaches traditional .303 British ballistics and no one objects to the latter as a chambering for a light double rifle.

Even guys using lever actions with open irons know the .30-30 does its work well out to 200 yards, and I don't believe most hunters use double rifles even to that range, preferring them as unscoped tools for more up close and personal work.

I know in a DR regulation is a concern, but Buffalo Bore now loads .30-30 ammo with a thick jacketed 190 gr. bullet at 2100 FPS. I am more of a big bore type myself, but I think that kind of performance even allows the .30 WCF to serve duty as grizzly insurance. This from the same rifle you can load with cowboy ammo and 150 gr. cast bullets at 1100 FPS for shooting rabbits without too much meat damage. And in the USA in a pinch you can find a cheap box of something that will work in any small town hardware store.

I used a Winny 1894 in .30-30 for years before moving up to a Marlin 1895 in .45-70, but still consider the former to be a very versatile gun indeed (and it will always have a home in my safe). All the best, thank you for your service and enjoy whatever caliber you choose in that fine rifle!

(.700 member)

04/01/13 05:20 AM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

190 at 2,100fps exceeds the old .303 Savage original factory 190gr. load by quite a bit.

"Firerams of the American West 1866-1894" shows a picture of a couple BEAR hunters 'Out West' with their kill - grizzlies. One of them is packing an early pre-94 Savage lever gun - which it's chambered for the .303 Savage. I'd personally prefer one of my large ctgs. but today, the game is much tougher - isn't it?

Factory levels listed by COTW are 180 at 2,140fps and 190 at 1,890fps.

(.275 member)

04/01/13 10:38 AM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

Hunter Angler's idea of "Grizzly Insurance" varies a great deal from mine. I'd be carrying my 9.3x74r for that kind of work ...

(.700 member)

04/01/13 10:44 AM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

Yeah, however a 250gr.RN at 2,150fps would work just fine - so my model 94 would be OK.

(.300 member)

04/01/13 07:29 PM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

It`s fun to see how much difference it is between countries with how much they appreciate the different calibres. Up here 30-30 are rare and has very few followers, the same with the 270 winchester. It may be because the 30-30 has not been allowed for moose, the 270 has though, but everyone prefers a 6,5*55, 308 or 3006 in stead.

(.333 member)

05/01/13 01:00 AM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

I have a close friend who manages a Bison ranch, and all his shooting is done with the 30-30. Says he would not hesitate to take anything including elk with it, but bear in mind he is a very cool shot, and insists absolutely on correct shot placement. I see no reason the cartridge is not sufficient, if the shooter is!
Doug

(.300 member)

05/01/13 01:07 AM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

Please don't misunderstand. As stated in my post I now carry a .45-70, typically loaded with 405 gr. bullets at 2050 FPS. Also, I would not take a .30-30 specifically for a big bear hunt. To be honest, I currently have a .475 Turnbull on order, specifically for work on dangerous game. I do prefer big, heavy bullets putting big holes in big, heavy critters to anchor 'em where I hit 'em.

I only expressed that a .30-30 with a heavy load could serve as "grizzly insurance," i.e. if one were on a mulie or elk hunt carrying a .30 WCF one needn't feel undergunned to defend one's self if a bruin with a nasty disposition would show up. In such a situation a lever action or double can also add certain advantage, i.e. multiple shots if necessary without the gun ever leaving the shoulder.

All the best.

(.400 member)

05/01/13 01:33 AM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

The discussion about the 30-30 WCF show me that there is not a consensus about the efficiency of this cartridge in North America !

(.300 member)

05/01/13 01:37 AM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

Not exactly, Grandveneur. The only question posed here would seem to be its effectiveness specifically against large bears, and I doubt if that is the purpose for which Brian is considering using his new light double.

Nonetheless there is no doubt that many of today's hunters using scoped .300 Magnums on whitetails at ranges inside of 100 yards look down their noses at the old .30-30 for whatever reason, and at the .45-70 for that matter.

All the best.

(.700 member)

05/01/13 02:15 AM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

Quote:

Not exactly, Grandveneur. The only question posed here would seem to be its effectiveness specifically against large bears, and I doubt if that is the purpose for which Brian is considering using his new light double.

Nonetheless there is no doubt that many of today's hunters using scoped .300 Magnums on whitetails at ranges inside of 100 yards look down their noses at the old .30-30 for whatever reason, and at the .45-70 for that matter.

All the best.

That's well put & at times, is directed at me, too, as to looking down my nose at the .30/30 - however, to look at it objectively, one must admit it has always been an effective round for it's intended game. Today, with modern loads, it is simply considerably better - and such a small, inexpensive and easy shooting round at that.

(.300 member)

05/01/13 04:10 AM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

Quote:

That's well put & at times, is directed at me, too, as to looking down my nose at the .30/30 - however, to look at it objectively, one must admit it has always been an effective round for it's intended game. Today, with modern loads, it is simply considerably better - and such a small, inexpensive and easy shooting round at that.

Thanks, and again I agree. I think for years over obsession with concepts like velocity, energy and sectional density have caused many to turn away from some of the old cartridges that worked very well for their intended purposes. To a certain extent the accepted rules will always apply, but with new bullet and powder technology there is even more reason to have another look at the old soldiers and the modern performance one can achieve with them.

Imagine how revolutionary the .30-30 must have seemed in the mid 1890s. A low recoil, small bore, higher velocity, smokeless powder cartridge with expanding bullets, chambered in light carry rifles, when a lot of guys thought the .38-55 was small and for target work, and were probably still hunting deer with 15 pound Sharps buffalo rifles, or .44-40 carbines with limited effective range. How it must have challenged the conventional wisdom back then!

Of course now I guess guys like me have come full circle, and think that the old big bore rounds like the .45-70 and .50-110 are just the thing loaded with modern powders.

(.224 member)

05/01/13 07:42 AM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

my intent was to hunt white tails with it. Kind of a reward rifle for myself for my fifth and most likely final combat deployment.

(.700 member)

05/01/13 07:54 AM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

Excellent Choice - and THANKS, Brian !!

Administrator

(.450 member)

06/01/13 02:07 AM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

Quote:

Looking at the Chapuis Double rifle in 30-30. I understand they are buit on a 28 Ga frame, come in at just over 6 lbs , are regulated with Hornandy Leverevolution ammo.
how much of that is right. Anyone own one, shoot one, handle one , have an opinion on one?

Brian,

First let me thank you sincerely for your service to our country. We are indebted to your dedication.

Now let me say there is nothing that gives more pleasure than a small to medium bore double rifle. I have quite a few. The most recent is a Rigby .360 made in 1880 I posted here.

My little Rigby isn't a true .360 (though that's what it says on the Rigby ledger). It has a bore diameter of .370" and grooves of about .380". By any other name it is a .38-55! It regulates to the 200 grain Sierra .375 bullet and is a joy to shoot. It will be death to our white tail deer, given an opportunity.

Keep in mind, in spite of all the discussion above, that a double rifle will be specific to one bullet weight (or a very narrow range of weights). While you can shuck any bullet weight through the Win. '94 and compensate with the rear sight elevator, the DR will rigidly demand it's chosen bullet weight. So "versatility" in this sense depends on the load your Chapuis wants to shoot.

I'm a great fan of the .30-30 Win. It was my very first rifle and my very first white tail kill at age 13. Even so, if I were pondering your decision I would certainly consider the Chapuis chambered in 8x57JRS or .30 Blaser. The 8x57JRS would be a peach. Just ask the zillions of happy owners of such rifles that are spread across the continent of Europe.

Whatever you decide, you are going to love it.

Best,
Curl

(.400 member)

08/01/13 05:23 AM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

Quote:

I dont know about , a 30-30 in a expensive rifle ! In France we take a critical look . The cartridge 30-30 has not a good reputation for hunting in Europe , quite unlike the 444 Marlin or the 45/70 gov. !

I will just say that I was born in a Hill country ranch house and lived in ranch country most of my life, now in my late 70s I can tell you that a big muledeer is in trouble at 200 yds when a man who knows his little iron sighted mod 94 Win lever action carbine chambered for 30-30 Win.

I built a S/S double rifle on a Browning BSS action with 20 inch barrels chambered for 30-30, that I used for following my lion and black bear dogs in New Mexico and I can tell you I never had to shoot a muledeer or lion twice, and it took care of black bear handily as well with the old 170 gr Win factory ammo, and killed muledeer at ranges up to about 200 yds or a little longer with ease. That is one double I wish I had not sold, but the guy who bought my dog string wanted the rifle as well, because he had hunted the dogs with me before an had seen what that little double would do!

In Europe the old 30-30 is designated 7.62x51mm and was popular in Europe for single shot and combination guns. Most popular in Germany for roe deer hunting.

A light double rifle chambered for 30-30 Win with good iron sights, and facility for a quick detachable illuminated 1-4X30mm scope would be a fine double rifle for general woods hunting anywhere in the world for deer size game!

I have a 20ga Lurona s/s shotgun that I�ve been thinking seriously about building another 30-30 double rifle with, and this thread has got me thinking again.

(.700 member)

08/01/13 08:46 AM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

I'd always thought the 7.62x51mm was the old Nato round, ie: .308 Winchester in civilian garb.

(.416 member)

08/01/13 10:12 AM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

It's 7.62x51R
7.62x51 is the (nearly the same as...) .308win

(.400 member)

08/01/13 10:37 AM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

Gentlemen;
The 7.62x51R is the European designation of the 30-30 win.

The 7.62x51 NATO is the NATO designation for the 308 Win.

Two entirely different cartridges! I just forgot to add the "R" to the designation!

(.700 member)

08/01/13 10:47 AM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

it's OK because

(.300 member)

08/01/13 11:09 AM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

And then you have the 307 winchester..

(.400 member)

08/01/13 11:30 AM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

The 307 Win is a semi-rimed cartridge with very little for the extractor to grab, but has gotten my attention for making a 243 rimmed cartridge for a double rifle! All that would be is to run the 307 case in a 7mm neck die, and then a 243 die to form the brass.
However this would certainly go over 50K in pressure. I still wish I had my 30-30 double back!

(.700 member)

08/01/13 01:37 PM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

The .307 and .356 Winchesters are both listed as 60,000PSI CIP factory ctgs, same as the .308, on the chart I have.
http://kwk.us/pressures.html

One could get better than .30/30 ballistics with the .307 - but how much better? I think I'd rather go with a straightened .220 Swift case. Better rim and about the same capacity or a bit more. Will have to check - sometime.

(.400 member)

08/01/13 05:09 PM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

In Europe 7,62x51R normally has been called .307 Win. Yes, "7" isn�t a typo.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/307win.htm

(.450 member)

08/01/13 06:04 PM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

Brian I would go with the 30-30 double. A Win Model94 in 30-30 was the first centre fire I bought. Never had to shoot a pig twice with it and as others have said you canuse it out to 200mts when you know the trajectory.

(.300 member)

09/01/13 01:05 AM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

Quote:

Keep in mind, in spite of all the discussion above, that a double rifle will be specific to one bullet weight (or a very narrow range of weights). While you can shuck any bullet weight through the Win. '94 and compensate with the rear sight elevator, the DR will rigidly demand it's chosen bullet weight. So "versatility" in this sense depends on the load your Chapuis wants to shoot.

With all due respect to CptCurl, I would disagree somewhat. Regulation and fixed sights may call for one consistant bullet weight and charge, but as per the discussion above, if I were hiking and hunting with a light double in big bear country, I wouldn't hesitate to sleep at night and at times carry with a heavier load to point and shoot in self defense at close range, as long as it were within the pressure limits of the break-open action. Of course the alternative is always just to strap on a .44 Magnum or .45 Colt revolver if one doesn't mind the extra hardware!

Similarly, although this may be against the religion of many here (including myself), if one adds a scope to a DR it opens up the possibility of using at least one barrel at ranges beyond regulation, or with somewhat lighter loads for varmint hunting, at least within the limits of the rate of twist in the rifling. I believe there is more versatility in a double than conventional wisdom might expect.

All the best.

(.375 member)

09/01/13 12:31 PM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

Brian ,
I have one of the Round action Chapuis 30/30's with the 28 gauge BBL's . It's regulated with the 160 grain Hornady Leveroution . I own quite a few doubles and this is by far my favorite !!!! It's scoped with leopold 1x4 compact scope. As to the power of the 30/30 , I have used it with good effect on pigs and deer . I really can't imagine a better combination for most of the USA (30/30 with 28 gauge) .
It's accurate and very well made , I love mine and shoot it almost every week don't think you can go wrong with this one.
Robert

(.400 member)

13/01/13 03:53 AM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

Page 315 of �The Handloaders Manual Of Cartridge Conversions� by John J. Donnelly

Quote:

�30-30 Winchester: Other name 7.62X51R

Page 352 of �The Handloaders Manual Of Cartridge Conversions�

307 Winchester: No other name

Page 356 of �The Handloaders Manual Of Cartridge Conversions�
308 Winchester: other names 7.62X51mm NATO & 30 CAL T-65

Quote:

Page 82 of �Cartridges Of The World� 8th edition By Frank C. Barnes

30-30 Winchester: 7.62X51MMR

Page 55 of Cartridges Of The The World

Paragraph #2 of the description: The 307 caliber designation is to avoid confusing this cartridge with other .30 calibers.

The 30-30 Winchester has been listed as the 7.62X 51R in Europe since 1900! Like all cartridges listed in Europe converted from other countries this is also a mish-mash of confusion. However the 30-30 Winchester was listed in Europe as 7.62X51mmR before the 308, ( 7.62X51mm NATO and 30 CAL T-65) or the 307 Winchester even existed!

..........................................................

(.400 member)

13/01/13 10:53 PM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

The 30-30 Winchester has been listed as the 7.62X 51R in Europe since 1900! Like all cartridges listed in Europe converted from other countries this is also a mish-mash of confusion. However the 30-30 Winchester was listed in Europe as 7.62X51mmR before the 308, ( 7.62X51mm NATO and 30 CAL T-65) or the 307 Winchester even existed!

..........................................................

http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=4209009&PHPSESSID=13b864f7a2d6e5c6df3e4101dc457cd1

That's right , but today not longer to avoid any possibility of confusion with other cartridges like the 7,62 x51 NATO or the 307 Winchester .

(.275 member)

14/01/13 02:08 PM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

A Chapuis 30/30 is on my bucket list. It was adequate for deer 100 years ago, and is even better today.

(.333 member)

29/05/13 02:05 PM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

Brian,

A double .30/30 is high on my wish list.

For pigs (feral hogs) it'd be a great "kick em out and shoot em" gun. Should be able to be built lightly enough to be in your hands when you need it..........and not on a sling.

With heavy/long round soft nose projectiles it should penetrate/kill very well. A "Texas heart shot" on the biggest boar should be effective. Can't see why it wouldn't do the same job on the biggest Whitetail Buck or a Black Bear.

The same could be said for a .303 British or a .30/40 Krag.......they'd give more velocity .....but would you need it ?????

The Chapuis looks well built......and if it fits you well it should serve you well to 100yds, and as others have said here 200yds....in the hands of a good shot.

I'd suggest that a .30/30 double would see far more use than one of the bigger "blasters" due to it's modest recoil and relative cheap cost to shoot.

Dugaboy,

Be sure to share the build process with us when you decide to replace your much missed double.

(.375 member)

26/06/13 05:59 AM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

I was looking at buying a 7x57r in the same fly weight double. JJ at Champlin kind of talked me out of it. My understanding is that it's not that rigidly made. It 's not that it is poorly made, just not very rigid and that as such it tends to be a little less accurate then the second size, especially with a scope.

Size 1 - 7x57r, 6.5x57r, 9.3x74r, and 30-30
Size 2 - 7x65r, 30 blaser and 9.3x74r
Size 3 - 450-400 and 300 win mag
Size 4 - 470 and 500

I'm sure that is incomplete but it's how it was explained to me and might help explain my less then perfect terminology of the frame sizes.

I was intrigued by the fly weight double but I ended going for the one a little bit bigger.

(.333 member)

27/03/14 10:47 AM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

Just received a Chapuis combo set in 30-30, and 28 bore. I have very limited results so far, but off the top, it seems it will work very well with my handloads, as well as Remington 150 gr factory- this regulated with the 160 Leverevolution, which the factory targets show at 1" horizontal, 1/2" vertical, at 50 m. Now, I have just test fired, at various ranges in the dirt- no targets yet, but it seems this one is at least as accurate as I can see with a variety of loads. So far, it looks like this is at least as accurate as any of my other doubles.

Problem is, the bloody thing has a 15 1/2" pull!!! Curiously, if I close my eyes, pull it up, and open them the sights are aligned! Seems to catch on my clothing on the way up though. Will see how this works in the skeet range soon, before I amputate 5/8 from the stock.

So far, I'm very impressed! Once the length of pull and the sights get sorted out, I think it's a keeper. BTW, 30-30 is a VERY serviceable cartridge when you aren't talking big stuff- in the new loadings about what the .303, and 30-40 were. No flies on this one!

Doug

(.224 member)

29/03/14 01:19 PM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

Quote:

Brian ,
I have one of the Round action Chapuis 30/30's with the 28 gauge BBL's . It's regulated with the 160 grain Hornady Leveroution . I own quite a few doubles and this is by far my favorite !!!! It's scoped with leopold 1x4 compact scope. As to the power of the 30/30 , I have used it with good effect on pigs and deer . I really can't imagine a better combination for most of the USA (30/30 with 28 gauge) .
It's accurate and very well made , I love mine and shoot it almost every week don't think you can go wrong with this one.
Robert

Having laid my hands on this rifle/shotgun before Robert...I will attest that it is a sweet little combo!

Because of him, I purchased my first double rifle a 450/400! These are addicting!

And yes I have bloodied it!

(.375 member)

04/04/14 05:35 AM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

Well done Jason !!!!!!!

Robert

(.224 member)

20/05/14 02:35 PM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

How does handling and recoil of a 30/30 compare to a .303 British or 8x57JRS in the little Chapuis DR? What other classic calibers in this size class are worth consideration?

I have bigger DR's so, I want something with authority inside 100 yards to plant nasty critters (feral hogs and ...<criminal activity>...).

(.400 member)

21/05/14 01:26 AM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

Quote:

How does handling and recoil of a 30/30 compare to a .303 British or 8x57JRS

As you should know, .30-30 has been very popular in Winchester 94 rifles. Most of those are very light weight rifles so it�s quite easy figure that recoil isn�t any problem. My good friend use .30-30 Win 94 as his favourite white tail deer rifle here in Finland and so he is an uncommon fellow among local hunters who mostly use .308.

(.333 member)

21/05/14 09:55 PM

Re: Chapuis Double Rifle in 30-30. Anyone have one?

After shortening the LOP, and using several handloads and factory, the results on the little Chapuis 30-30 are impressive! It regulates very well with all loads!! From 150 factory, to Leverevolution 160 gr at 2400 fps, and anything in between! Lead is a bust, however. I am very impressed, and I can take it out and blow 50 rounds downrange with total comfort! QD scope mount returns to zero perfectly.
Doug

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