| Yukon577 |
| (.224 member) |
| 26/03/09 11:09 AM |
Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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Hi Folks,
This is my first post here, I hope I put it in the right place and so on.
Last fall I bought a W.J. Jeffery double rifle from a friend that had owned it for a very long time. I do not have a lot of information on the rifle and I would like to find out more including appropriate loads and so on.
It is a boxlock, hammerless rifle with a top opener and extractors. The bores and chambers look nearly mint, they are 25" long, shiny and the rifling is deep with no marks or pits. The exterior appears to have been refinished at some point. There is one standing leaf sight with two folders marked 100 and 150.
I have not been able to find out much about, I have been told it was made or left Jeffery in March of 1898. That is about it. Marked on the bottom of the block is .577 Ex. It then says .577 Magnum 3 1/4" case, 650 grain bullet, 6 1/2 Drams #6 Powder.
On top of the barrels is the W.J Jeffery address of 13 King Street St. James London.
The lockup is very tight and solid. The feel and sound when it closes is beautiful.
I have been working up loads a bit but I have not shot it much yet.
Any information would be greatly appreciated.
| 500Nitro |
| (.450 member) |
| 26/03/09 11:18 AM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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yukon
Do you have the serial number ?
| jaz |
| (.300 member) |
| 26/03/09 11:57 AM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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What does the overall gun weigh and what is the weight of the barrels. Sounds like a nice gun.
| Yukon577 |
| (.224 member) |
| 26/03/09 12:14 PM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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The serial # is 590?.
The rifle weighs about 12 lbs. The barrels seem very heavy at the breach, thicker it looks than most I have seen pictures of. At the muzzles they seem average from pictures I have been looking at.
I have an older James Braddell cape gun in .577 Snider and the muzzles on the Jeffery are much heavier. In fact, the whole action, barrels and everything are far beefier.
| bonanza |
| (.400 member) |
| 26/03/09 01:59 PM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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Typical Jeffery.
Welcome to the NE.com!
I just got a .577 2 3/4" express and followed in the footsteps of many.
A time honored formula is 40% weight of black in IMR4198.
1 drams = 27.3 grains, then 27.3gr * 6.5dr * .4 = 71 grains of IMR4198.
With foam of felt as fillers.
This is a starting load. Increase/decrease by one grain at a time until it regulates.
| Paul |
| (.400 member) |
| 26/03/09 03:35 PM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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Sounds like a great rifle with the best of both worlds for sentient shooters: a hammerless you can carry that's still big enough for almost everything without kicking you stupid.
Cheers
| 500Nitro |
| (.450 member) |
| 26/03/09 03:44 PM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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Quote:
Sounds like a great rifle with the best of both worlds for sentient shooters: a hammerless you can carry that's still big enough for almost everything without kicking you stupid.
Cheers
nice enough to carry, yes, my 500 NE's weight 12 - 13lbs.
But a 577 3 1/4"
Fuck is all I can say, it will boot when it lets go IMHO.
The good thing is Jeffrey knew how to make good, balanced guns.
| Marrakai |
| (.416 member) |
| 26/03/09 10:18 PM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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Yukon:
That rifle will be simply wonderful in the hunting field. Proved for the 650gr bullet and the heavier BP load, it would make a marvellous 'nitro for black' big game rifle. Take a look at the Woodleigh 'Weldcore' RN soft with the thin jacket (for BP rifles), its a ripper!
Being a new poster here you may not have seen my opinion of the calibre, which everyone else is sick of hearing! (sorry fellas!)
Welcome to the forums BTW, and to the exclusive .577 club!
PS: W.J.Jeffery really knew how to put a nice hunting rifle together, and his makers were second to none IMHO. We had a long thread on Jeffery doubles a while back, if you're interested in some bedside reading!
| Yukon577 |
| (.224 member) |
| 27/03/09 05:56 AM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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Thanks for the welcome.
I have sourced a few boxes of the Woodleigh 650 grain RN for BP rifles. I also have a number of cast bullets in similar weights and lighter. I will try a few out and see how they shoot. I was very impressed with the consistency and accuracy in the 30 our so rounds I got to shoot last fall. At 50Meters they were all grouping together. I need to get more time out to say much more about how it shoots. I am used to heavy rifles and this double kicks quite heavily.
I have not shot this rifle much yet, but I hope to now that the temperatures are getting up where it's nice to go out shooting again.
We have some heavy game here, I hope to get a chance to hunt with it.
How would I find out more details about my rifle? And if mine was made in 1898, when would they have started proofing these things for Nitro or Cordite?
I will get some pictures to post also.
| 500Nitro |
| (.450 member) |
| 27/03/09 06:01 AM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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Yukon
Yes, IMHO it could well have been proofed for Nitro if built for it.
I'd like to see the photos of it.
the first 600 and a similar gun but in 577 NE were built at the same time, which is why I asked for the serial number.
No one could get it to shot until they tried a full Nitro load in it and then it went perfectly so it will be interesting to see if you ever try a Nitro load if your gun shoots - or a 75% Nitro for Black load ????
I have some copies of the Jeffrey records from that time period, I just have to find the damn things !!!!
| Yukon577 |
| (.224 member) |
| 27/03/09 06:15 AM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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I will try to get some pictures but I didn't see Nitro or Cordite anywhere on it.
The loads I tried using a lighter bullet shot together at 50 Meters but quite high. I have just a copy of the page on the cartridge from the book "Shooting the British Double Rifle" and there it gives a load of 130 grains of IMR 4350. I did load some up with 120 grains and 125 grains. It was these last loads that I found kicked heavily. They did all shoot together and right on the standing sight at 50 Meters. I have more of these and will try shooting more of them when I can get it out.
Does anyone have this book? It is out of print now and I have not been able to find one in stock anywhere. Any info is appreciated.
I would really be interested in seeing anything from the Jeffery records.
Thanks.
| 500Nitro |
| (.450 member) |
| 27/03/09 06:18 AM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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Yukon
The 577 I was talking about has no cordite proof marks
either and it was only when someone tried a full 577 load
that it shot.
The book "Shooting the British Double Rifle" is readily available.
| Yukon577 |
| (.224 member) |
| 27/03/09 06:31 AM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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I see. I would have to assume that by 1898 they would be making and proofing rifles for Nitro, they wouldn't be making other rifles weaker sensibly. The barrels are heavy fluid steel and the action seems very large. But that is about all I know on the subject.
I have been searching for the book, but it is out of stock in all the places I have tried. Maybe it's time to try again. If someone has one for sale, I would gladly buy it.
Thanks for the help. Is there more loading data for this cartridge in this book or others?
| 500Nitro |
| (.450 member) |
| 27/03/09 07:10 AM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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The 577 3 1/4" is a rare cartridge from what I can gather.
Expecially around that time when Jeffrey were doing the 600NE
- OR at least developing it.
| rigbymauser |
| (.400 member) |
| 27/03/09 07:49 AM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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Quote:
The 577 3 1/4" is a rare cartridge from what I can gather.
Expecially around that time when Jeffrey were doing the 600NE
- OR at least developing it.
According to Hoyms book, the 3 1/4" .577BPE was listed up around to 1925 with 560-650 grain bullets, offered by Westley Richards.
Charged with 65-75 grain cordite or 160-167 grain black
I know one day a prime speciem of a .577BPE doublerifle is to found in my gunsafe
| bonanza |
| (.400 member) |
| 27/03/09 08:02 AM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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You have to be prepared to buy it when you see it. Deal with the finacial consequences latter.
| bonanza |
| (.400 member) |
| 27/03/09 08:03 AM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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Time to post some pictures fellow.
| Sarg |
| (.400 member) |
| 27/03/09 08:05 AM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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Hi Yukon , Welcome ! I have been looking for a Hammerless 577 for a while , I have a hammered T. Bland which is great , just would like a hammerless !
Is yours one of these ? both Jefferies 577BPE 3 1/4 " one 1898 and one 1897 and one took a 177Gr load of BP with 650Gr slug
| AkMike |
| (.416 member) |
| 27/03/09 08:24 AM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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Hi Neighbor!
If you can hold off getting the DR book for a bit, Mr Wright should be releasing the 3rd edition soon. We're having a group buy of it here to get signed copies of it. If you need it right now there is le at gunbroker.com but it's priced way high IMO.
That sounds like you've found a dandy DR!
| Yukon577 |
| (.224 member) |
| 27/03/09 09:11 AM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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Sarg,
I think the top pictures you posted are my gun. If not, it is identical down to condition, grain in the butt and the recoil pad. Where are those pictures from?
I could likely wait a bit on the book. I would like to get in on that order of the third edition.
Thanks.
| AkMike |
| (.416 member) |
| 27/03/09 09:26 AM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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Quote:
Sarg,Where are those pictures from?
The pics show http://www.gunsinternational.com/index.cfm
edit; I just did a quick search there and found this one.
http://www.gunsinternational.com/W-J-Jef...un_id=100066094
| Sarg |
| (.400 member) |
| 27/03/09 09:33 AM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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I thought it would be , It was for sell in Canada in the last couple of years !
Is the fore end shorter than normal or just the photo angle ?
| Yukon577 |
| (.224 member) |
| 27/03/09 09:34 AM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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I don't see the pics of the top gun on that link. The top gun looks to be my rifle, but I am sure mine has not been listed, I bought it privately in my hometown last fall.
Ahh, that is the explanation. I do know he was thinking on selling it awhile. I am sure that is my rifle.
| Yukon577 |
| (.224 member) |
| 27/03/09 09:40 AM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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The forend does seem short. It is checkered entirely over the whole forend and right out to the end around where the metal for the release lever is inlaid into it.
Looking at the picture of the forend of the other Jeffery 3 1/4" on that link. My forend is shorter and the release lever is shorter also.
| mehulkamdar |
| (.416 member) |
| 27/03/09 01:54 PM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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Yukon,
You must post pictures here and show her off. Over here it is the best way to get help from several highly experienced and knowledgeable members who take the time to offer their expertise. And, don;t you want to get everyone else happy to see a work of the gunmaker's art?
Welcome to the Nitroexpress Forums and good hunting. You will enjoy your stay here.
| Marrakai |
| (.416 member) |
| 27/03/09 04:44 PM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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Short fore-ends are not uncommon on large calibre Brit doubles, as the barrels are already quite hand-filling and extra wood is simply an encumberance. After all, the fore-end's only job is to prevent the barrel-group falling off when the gun is opened! ...and to house the ejectors if fitted.
If anything, the barrels are a bit long for a Jeffery boxlock, many were 24 inches.
| Paul |
| (.400 member) |
| 27/03/09 05:09 PM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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Quote:
Fuck is all I can say, it will boot when it lets go IMHO.
I imagine you'd know, Nigel, but compared with the NE version it would have to be better unless the extra mass of the NE rifle nullifies all distinction. Using Nitro for black loads would drop the ejecta load by about 100 grains, too. While not experienced in such big calibres myself, 650 grains at 1650fps from a 12-pound rifle sounds like a gentler proposition than 500 grains at 2050-odd from an eight-pound 458.
Cheers
- Paul
| Yukon577 |
| (.224 member) |
| 27/03/09 06:13 PM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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Recoil is heavy, far more than I had expected and more than the .458s and similar I have used, and I have had many down to eight pounds, including Ruger #1s in .500 NE # 1/4" and all the big .45s including .460 Wby at nine pounds. I would compare this double recoil to that of the nine pound .500 with 650 casts at 2100. It could be a bit lighter, I have not shot it since last fall. I will have to get these 650s over the chronograph the first chance I get.
I will try to get some pictures posted tomorrow.
| Nighthawk |
| (.224 member) |
| 27/03/09 06:21 PM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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@Yukon577
If you can't wait, the book "Shooting the British double rifle" is in stock at a Belgian bookshop (52€ I believe). You can mail them at mail@hataritimes.com if you want more info.
| Paul |
| (.400 member) |
| 27/03/09 07:03 PM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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As explained above, Yukon, I am a babe in the woods in these matters but the load you mentioned shooting sounded to me like the full nitro-express version, meant for a rifle two or three pounds heavier. The nitro-for-black load would be easier on the rifle and your shoulder.
- Paul
| 500Nitro |
| (.450 member) |
| 27/03/09 07:29 PM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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Paul
I agree - it did sound like the full Nitro load now I think of it.
| Yukon577 |
| (.224 member) |
| 28/03/09 02:23 AM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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The load came from the book I mentioned. Does anyone have the book to look this up and see what it says regarding this load? I simply got the load written down, I didn't have a chance to read all it said about it.
As mentioned, my gun is marked 650 grain bullet 6 1/2 drams #6 powder. I would like to use the load that gives the same speeds as that load. With my limited shooting of about 12 rounds with the load from the book, my rifle did shoot right to the standing blade at 50 Meters. I would be very pleased if it shot as well with a slightly lighter load as it would be a lot more pleasant to shoot long term.
Another thing I should mention is that I have not shot the 650 grain jacketed bullets yet, this load was with a 650 grain round nosed cast bullet.
| 500Nitro |
| (.450 member) |
| 28/03/09 02:28 AM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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Yukon
In regards to "would be very pleased if it shot as well with a slightly lighter load as it would be a lot more pleasant to shoot long term."
once you work out the load that works in the rifle, apply the 75% rule and see if you can get it to shoot.
That way you will end up with a lighter load.
| Yukon577 |
| (.224 member) |
| 28/03/09 03:47 AM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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Please explain the 75% rule to me. Do I just put in 75% of the powder charge or do I seek a load that gived 75% of the velocity with the same bullet, 75% of bullet weight? I have not heard of this before.
| peter |
| (removed) |
| 28/03/09 05:06 AM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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yukon
the 75% rule is same powder but a 25% lighter head(300 grns. instead of 400 grns. in 450/400 for example). that often shoots to the sights.
best regards
peter
| 500Nitro |
| (.450 member) |
| 28/03/09 05:58 AM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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Thanks Peter.
Another good example is is the 500 Nitro, 440gn bullet instead of the 570gn bullet.
| Yukon577 |
| (.224 member) |
| 28/03/09 07:40 AM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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Thanks guys, I get it now. I have some moulds with bullets in the 465 to 500 grain range already too, so this might work out well.
Are there jacketed bullets in this weight available? I have used cast bullets of this weight a fair bit in my Sniders but have never even looked for a jacketed bullet for that purpose.
I also have a .577 NE 3" project gun under construction. It is a heavy barrel single shot on a Riedl falling block action. The action is massive and has never been made up into a rifle so is in new condition though it was made in the early 70s. The barrel I have fitted is long and heavy to give it some weight. It has only been test fired to this point. It lost priority once I got the Jeffery double.
Regarding the 75% rule, the first ammo I loaded for the .577 double was with a bullet of about 485 grains. It was with a lighter powder charge though. It did shoot well and consistent, but it shot a lot higher than the point of aim at 50 Meters. I wonder if I go back to the heavy charge with these lighter bullets, if they will come down to my point of aim. It would be worth a try and I am sure they would be more pleasant to shoot than the heavies.
| Yukon577 |
| (.224 member) |
| 30/03/09 02:27 PM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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Guys,
I got some pictures over the weekend, I just have to figure out how to post them now.
A couple of hours ago I was looking at a nice big wood bison down the sights of the Jeffery. He moved off before I got a shot and never did get a chace to shoot, but it was exciting and I almost got to see what the big .577 would do on one. Next time he won't be so lucky.
| Yukon577 |
| (.224 member) |
| 01/04/09 04:10 AM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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Here are the promised pictures. I hope you can see these.
| 500Nitro |
| (.450 member) |
| 01/04/09 04:15 AM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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Very nice indeed.
Thanks for posting.
| peter |
| (removed) |
| 01/04/09 04:39 AM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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very nice.
i like the flat top checkering
peter
| tarawa |
| (.333 member) |
| 01/04/09 09:48 PM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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Great classic gun!
| bigdog |
| (.375 member) |
| 02/04/09 10:09 AM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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Looks like a keeper.
| bonanza |
| (.400 member) |
| 02/04/09 12:46 PM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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Who's the tasty female with the creamy arms?
Best Regards;
Perv McPervison
| Yukon577 |
| (.224 member) |
| 02/04/09 07:14 PM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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That would be my ten year old son!
He doesn't own a double rifle yet, but he did get a lovely pre war Meffert single shot in .22 Hornet this year. Just waiting for the gophers to come up and we will both hit the field with our new(old) Hornets. Looking forward to that quality time.
| bigdog |
| (.375 member) |
| 03/04/09 10:38 AM |
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I have to say that I thought it was a girl to. Ha
| Yukon577 |
| (.224 member) |
| 05/04/09 01:18 PM |
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Re: Jeffery .577 3 1/4" double
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Does anyone know how to go about requesting the records for my W.J.Jeffery double rifle? I do know that the current Jeffery company does not have them. Any info would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Yukon